Support NeoGAF

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

This is actually trending on FB. crazy

I'm wondering if this isn't the only thing that's being changed though. And by that I mean actual story content because there's the BLADE thing which resembles a sentence now but apparently lost a reference to Jungian psychology. And I read something about a particular group name being changed which was a reference to Xenosaga although I'm not sure what the source on it is but it should be easy enough to check in the final game. Highlight the spoiler to see what I'm talking about, it's just a name change in case you were wondering whether or not it's heavy spoiler stuff (I myself don't know anything about the story of the game besides what the promotional trailers have showed since I want to see it for myself).

Spoiler

Apparently there's a group in the game called "Reclaimers", however the person I talked about before mentioned something about the Japanese version calling them "Testaments". If you've played Xenosaga 3 you probably remember who the Testaments are. If this change is in fact real I can't say I agree with it. One term has reference to the previous games, the other does not have any history with the series as far as I know.

Considering all the attention surrounding this game I expect that when it's out there will be people checking to see what kind of alterations have been made to the story, I just hope Nintendo isn't taking a page from their earlier history where they stripped anything religious out of the NA releases of their games.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Wait what the hell?

As a woman this pisses me off. Having small boobs or big boobs doesn't mean your any lesser or greater and I should be able to adjust my bust size if I so feel the need to do so.

Father Ninty knows what's best!
And so do a bunch of men in this forum.


This doesn't affect me at all bc I play mostly male btw. Still on the fence with reduced story.

 

[Eolz]

Well apparently in terms of content, according to Gamexplain and some others at least, Lin and the slider are the only things edited out.

The localization is another story, and sadly, after seeing how some of NOA/8-4 combined efforts looked in some games, I'm not that hopeful. Probably one of those games where you have to read about the meaning of various things on internet later, instead of making your own analysis from the game like in any good narrative-driven game, or in any with more than just some references.

edit: whoops, was meant to follow top post.

 

[-Horizon-]

This is actually trending on FB. crazy

whoa what

 

[KiteGr]

It's the little things that ruin the experience!

I said that I needed 8 games as reasons to get a WiiU.
Bayoneta 2 is one.
The second was supposed to be this, but... now I can't feel like buying it, even if it were to release on current gen consoles.

When I see censorship, even minor ones, somehow my hype for the game reaches rock bottom. It somehow feels incomplete and insulting.
The same Thing happened with Street Fighter 5. I was hyped to buy it day1, but now I don't know if I ever buy it at all!

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

and then posts like this continue them.

You don't have to agree with them but people have given their reasons to why they are upset about the change.

Its almost as if opinions that you don't agree with don't/ shouldn't exist or something.

Totally agree. The "superiority" of these posts is what get me the most.

 

[BatDan]

whoa what

Tailored trends most likely.
This is a non-issue to most people.

 

[MisterHero]

Monolithsoft should've did what PSO did and tied boob size to a general proportion slider

what a sad day for freedom ;_;

will import JP version as final proof of its existence

 

[pinkurocket]

If you're upset, just remember how terrible the bigger size chest actually looks.

 

[-Horizon-]

Tailored trends most likely.
This is a non-issue to most people.

ok that makes more sense

as much as I am peeved about this whole situation, I'd be very surprised if it caught wind of the mainstream

If you're upset, just remember how terrible the bigger size chest actually looks.

...so what if I wanted my character to have a slightly smaller chest?

 

[sensui-tomo]

If you're upset, just remember how terrible the bigger size chest actually looks.

you cant go flat either just to note. This isnt the kind of editing that i care for... I do however care if Content is cut from a product ... which we'll find out probably in January for FE Fates.

 

[bishopcruz]

How did this thread make it to 21 pages? This has zero effect on gameplay.

Because people have different opinions. Debates occur, more posts are made. Funny how that works.

Y'know I kinda want to check the Usenet from back in the day to see if people were defending dumb self censorship even back in the stone age of the internets.

 

[krizzx]

Yeah saves us €60, knowing this in advance.

This would have killed my interest as well, if it hadn't already been done by the renaming skells to dolls, and removing the original Japanese dub.

 

[Palculator]

How did this thread make it to 21 pages? This has zero effect on gameplay.

You cared enough to post your opinion. Others have too. Then a debate occurred.

And it's not really just about this instance of a relatively innocuous (though still misguided and pointless) change being made. Between Nintendo's generally long history of censorship, the recent Fatal Frame V having more severe censorship, R. Mika's butt being nerfed, and concerns about the censorship of the upcoming Fire Emblem or Genei Ibun Roku ♯FE this topic just hits a nerve. Can't really say "it's just tits you guys."

In related news, and which actually are mostly about the tits, people over at GameFAQs have been mailing Nintendo of America about this, apparently. And they've been getting exactly the kind of responses you'd expect them to get from customer support. Example from the OP linked:

Nintendo of America,

Recently, I've learned that Xenoblade Chronicles X is being censored for its Western release. Has Nintendo officially made a statement as to why they are cutting content from the original game at the expense of their Western audience? While the situation of Lynlee led to an understandable outcome, I'm baffled by NOA's decision to further limit options as to what kind of characters the fans can create to represent THEMSELVES. Nintendo does have a female audience and the censoring of a body type that may or may not be a feature they identify with shows disregard for those fans.

I'm really agitated by the new restrictions of what I can do with my character and hope to find that nothing else has been changed as well as the return of the edited out content.

Thanks.

Hello Kamon,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your feedback regarding Xenoblade Chronicles X. We can certainly understand your thoughts on this matter and want you to know how much we appreciate you sending them in. We also want to assure you that your comments will be added to our records for Xenoblade Chronicles X and will be made available for other departments at the company to review and thoughtfully consider.

There are many reasons that Nintendo or any other publisher may decide to release a certain copy of a game in one market, but not another. I understand that there are (like you) real fans of these games and franchises in this market who would love nothing more than to see these titles appear as they would in other areas around the world. In fact, there are many of us here who share your interest in these titles.

While I can't guarantee anything, we do take all feedback into consideration. Your comments help us to understand what is important to our gamers.

As news comes available regarding future products, we post any announcements to our website (www.nintendo.com). Keep an eye on our site for all the latest information.

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.
Cal Trim

Seems futile to do, but I guess I can't really fault them since they are being reasonable in their customer support mails (at least those I've skimmed) and it still has more of a chance of reaching someone than our discussion here, I guess.

 

[The Technomancer]

I was going to actually argue against this until I saw that apparently customization was just limited to height and bust size? if it was one of those comprehensive editors that gives you annoying levels of control over the size of your eyebrows or whatever removing this option would be dumb, but I can't get too up in arms about this. Its not like there were many other options for altering body shape

 

[tbd]

That's just ridiculous, both, the bust slider and the character remodelling. They should have just made the bunny costume and similar costumes unusable for the character or just make her older since her body looks 20 anyway. Now basically all kinds of bikins, swimwear or lighter clothes look horrible on her, in a role-playing game which many people actually just play to waste time enjoying the locations, maybe giving every character swimwear and looking for items in the water for several hours, which, ironically, the last DIrect trailer even fucking shows.

We could just decide to not use something, this kind of censorship takes this choice from us, it restricts us. The way Nintendo handled this, I have no idea what's going on inside someone's head to write something like "good" here.

 

[Palculator]

I was going to actually argue against this until I saw that apparently customization was just limited to height and bust size? if it was one of those comprehensive editors that gives you annoying levels of control over the size of your eyebrows or whatever removing this option would be dumb, but I can't get too up in arms about this. Its not like there were many other options for altering body shape

No. You can customise your character's face, skin tone, make-up and other things like moles/freckles/scars whatever, hair style and colour, and their eyes. Voices too, which is kinda cool since they display the voice actor in the menu. Slider based adjustments were limited to height and bust size for females. There's a menu entry "size" that split up into two sliders, which have now been reduced to one. So it's not really like those were the only customisation options, and even if they were you'd be arguing for a 50% loss of features.

https://youtu.be/rZtGu1nyYow?t=470

 

[Dice//]

TWe could just decide to not use something, this kind of censorship takes this choice from us, it restricts us. The way Nintendo handled this, I have no idea what's going on inside someone's head to write something like "good" here.

Gee whiz, I hope you fight your government on important issues with the same passion as you do your "right"[?] to have jailbait character models and boob sliders.

I was going to actually argue against this until I saw that apparently customization was just limited to height and bust size? if it was one of those comprehensive editors that gives you annoying levels of control over the size of your eyebrows or whatever removing this option would be dumb, but I can't get too up in arms about this. Its not like there were many other options for altering body shape

This I totally agree with.

If it was a full customization, like in the vein of Dragon's Crown or Black Desert or whatever else then removing a 'bust size' option (or, for guys, a chest/muscle slider) would seem like a silly way to police people to create modest-looking avatars.
But the framing of the boob slider as one of two things you can change and an honest non-fanservice "customization option" seems dubious. People responding with "but it's realistic for boobs to come in many sizes" seem to neglect that so do bodies --- an option which XCX lacks completely besides how tall your avatar is.

 

[Speedwagon]

If you're upset, just remember how terrible the bigger size chest actually looks.

So you're saying women who have breasts that size look terrible?

 

[Palculator]

Gee whiz, I hope you fight your government on important issues with the same passion as you do your "right"[?] to have jailbait character models and boob sliders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

If it was a full customization, like in the vein of Dragon's Crown or Black Desert or whatever else then removing a 'bust size' option (or, for guys, a chest/muscle slider) would seem like a silly way to police people to create modest-looking avatars.

But Dragon's Crown didn't have character customisation at all, besides being able to have your sprite be a slightly different colour and give them a name. And it was even more heavily focused on fanservice.

But the framing of the boob slider as one of two things you can change and an honest non-fanservice "customization option" seems dubious. People responding with "but it's realistic for boobs to come in many sizes" seem to neglect that so do bodies --- an option which XCX lacks completely besides how tall your avatar is.

You're neglecting that it's both fanservice and more realistic. Different people have argued for either, neither are completely wrong and it being fanservice doesn't warrant its removal. And then you again highlight the fact that it's a limited set of features as an argument to remove even more features.

 

[adroit]

So you're saying women who have breasts that size look terrible?

No, they're saying character models are not this game's strong point. And they're right.

 

[Dice//]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

But Dragon's Crown didn't have character customisation at all, besides being able to have your sprite be a slightly different colour and give them a name. And it was even more heavily focused on fanservice.

You're neglecting that it's both fanservice and more realistic. Different people have argued for either, neither are completely wrong and it being fanservice doesn't warrant its removal. And then you again highlight the fact that it's a limited set of features as an argument to remove even more features.

First: C'mon, I was pointing out a passionate post for being over-dramatic. The end quality of the game is not altered on (admittedly arbitrary) meaningful ways --- the core gameplay, themes, story go on like nothing was changed. The changes is question are minor cosmetic ones that were gendered (ie; picking a male avatar warrants this topic basically irrelevant).

Second: My bad, I meant Dragon's Dogma, not Dragon's Crown. Whoops!

Third: I'm not quite following. Still, why does the female avatar warrant 'special attention' for a changeable body part and men don't? We all come in different shapes, the the XCX team decided character creation was based on a very specific set of customizable features: Besides the face, this meant height (for men and women) and bust (women only). It's a sexualized feature and women already face enough body image discourse and being posed as ridiculous and objectified eye-candy in games often enough. Nintendo unlikely won't comment as to the PRECISE reasons why they decided the edits they did (whether to create a more approachable game with a T-rating, or perhaps due to complications of Lyn's age/attire, or whether or not to appease potential "SJWs"). XCX offers a lot more than just these edited features (and form what I've heard from reviewers, there are still many of 'scandalous outfits' for other characters to go around), and it's sort of peculiar how much attention these specific aspects are getting.

 

[Palculator]

Second: My bad, I meant Dragon's Dogma, not Dragon's Crown. Whoops!

Ah. That makes more sense.

Third: I'm not quite following. Still, why does the female avatar warrant 'special attention' for a changeable body part and men don't? We all come in different shapes, the the XCX team decided character creation was based on a very specific set of customizable features: Besides the face, this meant height (for men and women) and bust (women only). It's a sexualized feature and women already face enough body image discourse and being posed as ridiculous and objectified eye-candy in games often enough. Nintendo unlikely won't comment as to the PRECISE reasons why they decided the edits they did (whether to create a more approachable game with a T-rating, or perhaps due to complications of Lyn's age/attire, or whether or not to appease potential "SJWs"). XCX offers a lot more than just these edited features (and form what I've heard from reviewers, there are still many of 'scandalous outfits' for other characters to go around), and it's sort of peculiar how much attention these specific aspects are getting.

They got special attention for fanservice reasons. That's why I said the people claiming the breast slider is there for that aren't wrong. But the people arguing it also gave the character creator more options and made it more (not fully) realistic are not wrong either for the reasons you laid out -- breasts come in various sizes. The authorial intent behind the breast slider is pretty clear. Nevertheless it also had the effect of adding more possibilities to a character creator desperate for some.

Removing the slider now removes those options with it. The fanservice aspect behind the slider -- which appears to be your primary issue with it -- is now gone too, but fanservice is still in the game. There are plenty of women with variously sized breasts in Xenoblade Chronicles X and a huge amount of exposing costumes to go with them. Hence, as others have pointed out before me, the removal of the breast slider does little to address your problem with fanservice, but has a comparatively big effect on a character creator already lacking in features. I get the fanservice concern (not that I agree with it but I understand the reasons behind it) but the only thing this change affects in that regard is people who maybe got a sexual kick out of adjusting their character's breast size now can't. There are still plenty of other exposed chests in all kinds of sizes in this game for them to look at through all kinds of outfits, while people who want customisation of their character (including breasts) in a non-sexual way now have even less options to do so. The net effect is a negative.

Additionally I'd argue there's nothing inherently wrong even about wanting to customise a character's breasts for sexual reasons, but obviously I'd agree there should be an equally meaningful alternative for male characters and that topic overall is probably too personal/subjective/intimate to discuss on a rational level.

 

[Pokemaniac]

First: C'mon, I was pointing out a passionate post for being over-dramatic. The end quality of the game is not altered on (admittedly arbitrary) meaningful ways --- the core gameplay, themes, story go on like nothing was changed. The changes is question are minor cosmetic ones that were gendered (ie; picking a male avatar warrants this topic basically irrelevant).

Second: My bad, I meant Dragon's Dogma, not Dragon's Crown. Whoops!

Third: I'm not quite following. Still, why does the female avatar warrant 'special attention' for a changeable body part and men don't? We all come in different shapes, the the XCX team decided character creation was based on a very specific set of customizable features: Besides the face, this meant height (for men and women) and bust (women only). It's a sexualized feature and women already face enough body image discourse and being posed as ridiculous and objectified eye-candy in games often enough. Nintendo unlikely won't comment as to the PRECISE reasons why they decided the edits they did (whether to create a more approachable game with a T-rating, or perhaps due to complications of Lyn's age/attire, or whether or not to appease potential "SJWs"). XCX offers a lot more than just these edited features (and form what I've heard from reviewers, there are still many of 'scandalous outfits' for other characters to go around), and it's sort of peculiar how much attention these specific aspects are getting.

It really isn't all that peculiar if you think about it. These features are getting attention because they were removed. Any aspects of a game that get hugely changed or removed during localization are going to attract some level of attention, regardless of the specifics. The boob slider is getting a particularly large amount of attention because there's significant disagreement on the merits of the the change. Many people, myself included, are of the opinion that removing it doesn't really seem to serve much of a positive purpose at all, especially in light of the "scandalous outfits" that were left completely alone. From the details we have, it seems that the only people truly getting negatively impacted by this are thise who would have used the slider for legitimate purposes.

 

[mugwhump]

But the framing of the boob slider as one of two things you can change and an honest non-fanservice "customization option" seems dubious. People responding with "but it's realistic for boobs to come in many sizes" seem to neglect that so do bodies --- an option which XCX lacks completely besides how tall your avatar is.

And people responding with "but you should have been able to customize your weight first" seem to neglect that that takes more work than a breast slider, which requires only that chest armor for females can change.

But seriously, IDGAF about how the feature is framed. It was a feature, and it got removed for no good reason. Maybe the framing of the feature would matter in a discussion on whether Monolith Soft was correct in choosing to add it in the first place, but in regards to the feature's removal, its framing is irrelevant.

 

[PtM]

So you're saying women who have breasts that size look terrible?

Fricken Boob Justice Warriors…

 

[Dice//]

But seriously, IDGAF about how the feature is framed. It was a feature, and it got removed for no good reason. Maybe the framing of the feature would matter in a discussion on whether Monolith Soft was correct in choosing to add it in the first place, but in regards to the feature's removal, its framing is irrelevant.

You've made yourself infallible , you don't give a fuck and what I'm saying is irrelevant.... So what can be said to you?? Since you can't be appealed to with some sort of argument by a normal user here, then I'll just say this: Clearly it was warranted removal for what I'm sure was more than "a whim" or "just for the hell of it" or "for no good reason" by NoA. The judge and jury was them, and no matter what is said here, and for the time being, it doesn't seem like they'll budge to change it back to match the Japanese release.
And sure its framing is irrelevant to you, but to others they see that it's likely fanservice that focuses on a specific sexualized body part on a specific gender. Maybe, just maybe, some "over-sensitive" Nintendo employee didn't like it and made the executive decision to remove it for that or any other bunch of reasons. That said, censorship is indeed an issue worth investigating/debating, especially why it happens (which, when it is revealed, is often for usually more complicated reasons than "just because" despite people often citing it's "for no good reason").

Maybe for the next Xenoblade game, if it has a character creator, it'll be more in-depth and include many customization options, and hopefully none of them get the axe.

 

[mugwhump]

You've made yourself infallible , you don't give a fuck and what I'm saying is irrelevant.... So what can be said to you?? Since you can't be appealed to with some sort of argument by a normal user here

Some sort of argument, sure. But not that one. Not in a thread discussing why an already complete feature was removed. As I said, it's an important consideration if you're talking about why it was added in the first place, but that and this are two different topics. All imo, of course.

, then I'll just say this: Clearly it was warranted removal for what I'm sure was more than "a whim" or "just for the hell of it" or "for no good reason" by NoA.

They undoubtedly thought it was the right decision. Whether NoA-logic holds up under scrutiny is... ah, let's just say frequently debated.

And yeah, there's no way they'll change it back. I only hope that the right pushback will make them more hesitant to censor future titles.

 

[Qurupeke]

If you're upset, just remember how terrible the bigger size chest actually looks.

It looks okay.

 

[Palculator]

You've made yourself infallible , you don't give a fuck and what I'm saying is irrelevant.... So what can be said to you?? Since you can't be appealed to with some sort of argument by a normal user here, then I'll just say this: Clearly it was warranted removal for what I'm sure was more than "a whim" or "just for the hell of it" or "for no good reason" by NoA. The judge and jury was them no matter what is said here and for the time being, it doesn't seem like they'll budge to change it back. And sure its framing is irrelevant to you, but to others they see that it's pretty clear fanservice that focuses on a specific sexualized body part on a specific gender, maybe, just maybe, some "over-sensitive" Nintendo employee didn't like it and made the executive decision to remove it for that or any other bunch of reasons. That said, censorship is indeed an issue worth investigating/debating, especially why it happens (which, when it is revealed, is often for usually more complicated reasons than "just because" despite people often citing it's "for no good reason").

Maybe for the next Xenoblade game, if it has a character creator, it'll be more in-depth and include many customization options, and hopefully none of them get the axe.

Doesn't really seem like you're open to arguments either since you keep ignoring the numerous counter points people raise to every one of your posts. And they haven't made themselves infallible either. If they don't consider the framing important, then maybe try and argue why it is important or why the breast slider is inherently bad regardless of framing.

"It's fanservice therefore it should be gone" has been your stance with little to back that up aside from scatterbrained straw grasping bringing in the irrelevant Street Fighter glitch and that (presumably) guy harassing you. At best you justify how it is fanservice, but not why it should be gone. Because one doesn't imply the other.

 

[SkeptiMism]

It's the little things that ruin the experience!

I said that I needed 8 games as reasons to get a WiiU.
Bayoneta 2 is one.
The second was supposed to be this, but... now I can't feel like buying it, even if it were to release on current gen consoles.

When I see censorship, even minor ones, somehow my hype for the game reaches rock bottom. It somehow feels incomplete and insulting.
The same Thing happened with Street Fighter 5. I was hyped to buy it day1, but now I don't know if I ever buy it at all!

It sounds like you would've never bought it anyway if Bayo 2 was your first game of the 8 games you need to get the system.

How do you feel about other localisation changes that publishers do all the time? Say, jokes being localized to be more culturally relevant?

 

[Chaos17]

No, they're saying character models are not this game's strong point. And they're right.

It's better than nothing and we can change the height of the character wich Fallout 4 doesn't even has.

 

[Pandy]

The real news is Adam Howden is a voice choice!

When I found that out the other day, my excitement went up about 100%.

As a bloke I'm actually not terribly disimilar to Shulk, but a bit older and beefier, so that's the sort of avatar I'll be trying to create for my playthrough. I'm happy to play a diverse range of characters in games with a set cast, but given an RPG character creator I tend to do a self-portrait as best I can, ever since PSO.

For women of a similar mind-set to me, being forced to have 'medium' breasts must be weird if you are of smaller or larger proportions, and having the option actually taken away from you when it once existed must feel discriminatory.

 

[KiteGr]

It sounds like you would've never bought it anyway if Bayo 2 was your first game of the 8 games you need to get the system.

How do you feel about other localisation changes that publishers do all the time? Say, jokes being localized to be more culturally relevant?

I was more of a Playstation guy, so I have little experience with the Nintendo classics, and these are type of the games I immediately recognized. Obviously No3 on my list is the New Zelda, since even if I didn't have the chance to play much of these games, I did LOVE Okami, I did owned a DS and recently I got a used Wii "dirt cheap", so more numbers might come up as I interact with that.
For the time being though, because I've stayed away from Nintendo, I didn't build much fanboyism, and while I see the value on some Nintendo games, I can't see how New Super Mario Bross are better than Rayman Origins/Legends, or Splatoon could be better than most other shooters.

As for other Localisation changes.
I HATE them!
They kill about 3/4 of the hype I have over a game.
And some times I don't realize them until it's to late! I sold off my Ninja Gaiden Sigma, and didn't bother with Sigma 2 because of this.
I'm one of those guys that like collecting their games as much as they like playing them, and seeing them Censored in any way, minor or major instantly feel like this edition of the product is inferior, and I should look/wait for a better version that may, or may never exist.

 

[Dice//]

When I found that out the other day, my excitement went up about 100%.

...

For women of a similar mind-set to me, being forced to have 'medium' breasts must be weird if you are of smaller or larger proportions, and having the option actually taken away from you when it once existed must feel discriminatory.

For the second part: What's it like not to have a muscle slider then?
Does it feel discriminatory you can't fatten up/slim down? Do you feel discriminated in not being able to reflect your build? If you do then let's hope they add that option next time!
Speaking for myself, I don't give a single shit about how big my boobs are in the game, especially since XCX has almost gone OUT of its way to include as few customization options as possible for the avatar body. And even if I did, I doubt it'd be a 'deal breaker' and decide AGAINST purchasing the game because I couldn't make my digital breasts reflect my real ones.... xD

Anyways, totally agreed 100% of having Shulk/Fiora "return" as "classic VAs". x)

Doesn't really seem like you're open to arguments either since you keep ignoring the numerous counter points people raise to every one of your posts. And they haven't made themselves infallible either. If they don't consider the framing important, then maybe try and argue why it is important or why the breast slider is inherently bad regardless of framing.

"It's fanservice therefore it should be gone" has been your stance with little to back that up aside from scatterbrained straw grasping bringing in the irrelevant Street Fighter glitch and that (presumably) guy harassing you. At best you justify how it is fanservice, but not why it should be gone. Because one doesn't imply the other.

Oh boy.
I honestly doubt we'll see eye to eye no matter what argument is put forth or if I'm arguing you "correctly". You're on one side and I'm on the other, and our stances just clash. More generally I have no idea what points I'm not directly/precisely responding to and I'm too tired to search/dissect all these posts atm.

One guy (you know of) has 'harassed' me, but thanks for reminding me! (I won't get into other instances both on- and offline where it's happened) And sure one Street Fighter 'glitch' happened, but it's pretty clear the game has enjoyed having its female cast "play" for the camera much more than the men. That's not an accident. And sure, fanservice or a sexy design is nice every so often, and a sexy design can be great to look at and introduce variety to clothing options and unique looking female character... But I think it's when time and time again women are made to ogled that I have to start rolling my eyes, especially when it's often my gender up to be ogled or have their ass shoved toward the camera much more than any male character would.
I get it. Tits and ass are great.

As for justifying how it's fanservice I don't think it gets more specific and clear (or at the very least, pretty darn likely) when ONE gender has their major [over-]sexualized asset as the one thing they can change about their character other than their height. Most games, even old MMOs offer way better customization features than that, XCX for whatever reason chose to keep the customizing options pretty narrow (besides the face). If you don't see it as fanservice, that's great and you see breasts as just another body part like any other (I doubt that, but...), and if you do like that sort of thing then I don't really care (it's why you won't see me around Senran Kagura or DoA Extreme titles, they have their audience) but don't be surprised if you don't find unanimous agreement especially if a game is trying to hit for more "broader appeal" like Xenoblade/NoA might be going for.

But again, if I can't "win an argument" because of the fanservice angle, I get it, some people like it and want to see more of it, then I can't do anything to change that, and of course it doesn't mean I have to agree.
But it doesn't matter, Nintendo of America made the choice for us, someone decided it for I'm sure some set reasons.

 

[tbd]

Gee whiz, I hope you fight your government on important issues with the same passion as you do your "right"[?] to have jailbait character models and boob sliders.

Why would I fight "government"? Those costumes or a bust slider aren't breaking the rights of anyone nor break any general law. it's just NoA being NoA.

Holy shit, didn't know some people actually defend this kind of censorship and literally just having choices taken away from them. A fucking stupid looking metal plate glued on the chest of a main character in a role-playing game which has swimwear for every character and even has a trailer that shows role-playing with the player being able to give all characters swimwear when swimming for some time to feel more immersed. And lets not forget you can just make yourself a character that looks exactly like said main character and wear all the skimpy clothes. So, assuming there is some pedophile who plays video games to get off on some weird looking anime characters (literally what people that defend this fucking shit imply), he could do it anyway. This is how stupid this whole action is. Then the bust slider, again in a role-playing game with mature themes; the player is not allowed to make a vamp with huge breasts, a girl with huge breasts or a girl with A cups is not allowed to represent herself. Breasts are dangerous.

I'm truly somewhat disgusted.

 

[Palculator]

Oh boy.
I honestly doubt we'll see eye to eye no matter what argument is put forth or if I'm arguing you "correctly". You're on one side and I'm on the other, and our stances just clash. More generally I have no idea what points I'm not directly/precisely responding to and I'm too tired to search/dissect all these posts atm.

You're right. We probably won't. But the main point we differ on is whether or not it's okay to remove it, not whether or not it's fanservice. I've acknowledged the breast slider as fanservice (in addition to its other merits) numerous times. At least to my knowledge, you've primarily focused on the fact that it is fanservice and how it sexualises females -- feel free to point out where you haven't, since I'm not an omnipotent reader either. That's okay, I agree. But that does not warrant censorship in my opinion.

Regarding the not reading every post thing, that's okay too. But I'm having a hard time believing you didn't read the two posts on this page that point out your fanservice problem is not solved by this minor edit due to the myriad other female sexualisation, thus making its removal for that purpose pretty pointless. Which are arguments that have been brought up before, even in posts you directly responded to.

One guy (you know of) has 'harassed' me, but thanks for reminding me! (I won't get into other instances both on- and offline where it's happened)

Seemed to have been fine to bring it up when you thought it helped your argument. Or when PtM brought it up to support the breast slider removal too.

And sure one Street Fighter 'glitch' happened, but it's pretty clear the game has enjoyed having its female cast "play" for the camera much more than the men. That's not an accident. And sure, fanservice or a sexy design is nice every so often, and a sexy design can be great to look at and introduce variety to clothing options and unique looking female character...

I agree, they do sexualise their cast of females more than the males (at least to the extent I can determine this as a straight guy.) Not really relevant though, and if that's your problem, post examples of that instead of the glitch. Putting the word "glitch" in inverted commas like that to imply intent is kind of disingenuous too, but not really going to linger on this irrelevant aside about Street Fighter.

But I think it's when time and time again women are made to ogled that I have to start rolling my eyes, especially when it's often my gender up to be ogled or have their ass shoved toward the camera much more than any male character would.
I get it. Tits and ass are great.

Yeah, it gets old. Feel free to criticise the designs of both Street Fighter V and Xenoblade Chronicles X as much as you want. But don't conflate criticism with suppression. Requesting your negative opinion on them to actually lead to censorship or supporting censorship because of it is egocentric, arrogant and unfairly asserts superiority of your opinion over that of others.

As for justifying how it's fanservice I don't think it gets more specific and clear (or at the very least, pretty darn likely) when ONE gender has their major [over-]sexualized asset as the one thing they can change about their character other than their height. Most games, even old MMOs offer way better customization features than that, XCX for whatever reason chose to keep the customizing options pretty narrow (besides the face). If you don't see it as fanservice, that's great and you see breasts as just another body part like any other (I doubt that, but...), and if you do like that sort of thing then I don't really care (it's why you won't see me around Senran Kagura or DoA Extreme titles, they have their audience) but don't be surprised if you don't find unanimous agreement especially if a game is trying to hit for more "broader appeal" like Xenoblade/NoA might be going for.

I think you read my post wrong, or I misphrased it in which case I'm sorry. I said "at best" you justify how it's fanservice, not that you don't justify it. I have already agreed three times now that it's fanservice. I said your arguments don't go beyond that because what you're lacking is an actual reason for its removal, not your distaste. And to get this out of the way: Your distaste is no such reason.

But again, if I can't "win an argument" because of the fanservice angle, I get it, some people like it and want to see more of it, then I can't do anything to change that, and of course it doesn't mean I have to agree.
But it doesn't matter, Nintendo of America made the choice for us, someone decided it for I'm sure some set reasons.

You can explain how it's unfairly sexualising or why you're grossed out by it with the fanservice angle. But you can't win with it regarding censorship, in my opinion. The entire world and their dogs being grossed out by it wouldn't justify censorship. And acknowledging people like it and then supporting its removal is implicitly acknowledging the egocentrism in your position.

And yeah, it's dead and gone -- Nintendo already removed it. Using that to defend its removal is saying "it's fine because it is." I don't think people here were debating to actually get the breast slider back, it was an exchange of opinions as to whether or not it was right to do so. Saying "because they did" isn't really helping.

 

[muteki]

Should be expected by now, I guess.

The CYA mentality on display by NOA et al. is disappointing.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

The entire world and their dogs being grossed out by it wouldn't justify censorship.

This is a sentiment I just can't wrap my head around (though I could, once upon a time). The idea of a black and white view of censorship where nothing should be changed no matter what is just so typical of internet arguments completely lacking nuance that I think those of us who agree with/are okay with this decision have a hard time responding to it with anything but incredulity.

I'll say it right out so there's no question: I am 100% okay with the censorship of things that I don't think should've been part of a product in the first place. In this case, it's a bust slider and a half-naked 13 year old. If a censored element represents a material change to the narrative and/or artistic intention, I'm more open to discussion, but I do not believe that to be the case here.

 

[Palculator]

This is a sentiment I just can't wrap my head around (though I could, once upon a time). The idea of a black and white view of censorship where nothing should be changed no matter what is just so typical of internet arguments completely lacking nuance that I think those of us who agree with/are okay with this decision have a hard time responding to it with anything but incredulity.

My posts in this thread don't give an exhaustive account of my views on censorship. The parts where the grey comes in is just not relevant to the discussion at hand. I obviously don't think you should just be able to publish hate speech or direct threats as art and expect to get off scot-free. Nor do I think an artist can just do anything when they are producing works for children. But these cases of wiggle-room are not relevant to Xenoblade Chronicles X (as far as I know, anyway) so pardon me for not covering them.

Overall my stance is just that I don't need a middleman changing work to "my sensibilities" or whatever and art evolves through debate. Suppressing creative expression effectively silences one side of it and in absence of malice I don't see merit in suppression. That's the sort of "tl;dr" version with some exceptions (partially outlined above) that, as far as I'm concerned, don't apply to Xenoblade Chronicles X. Luckily, in this instance, a lot of the debate part can be had either way because they didn't succeed in totally removing these contents from existence, but the medium is the message so I'd still rather have it in game form rather than coverage of the Japanese version.

I know it's rather silly to get this high concept over the case at hand. As I pointed out whenever I deemed it necessary, I don't find the changes to Xenoblade Chronicles X that bad and still got the Special Edition preordered. The recent influx of censorship just brought back my general dislike for the concept and the arbitrariness of the breast slider removal was the straw that broke the camel's back regarding me speaking out against it in principle. I think most of my posts were speaking generally, except when I was answering people raising points specific to the changes in the OP.

I'll say it right out so there's no question: I am 100% okay with the censorship of things that I don't think should've been part of a product in the first place. In this case, it's a bust slider and a half-naked 13 year old. If a censored element represents a material change to the narrative and/or artistic intention, I'm more open to discussion, but I do not believe that to be the case here.

Pretty much goes both ways. The insignificance of the content also makes it easier to not care about their addition: Nobody forces you to adjust your character's bust size or put Lin in lingerie.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

My posts in this thread don't give an exhaustive account of my views on censorship. The parts where the grey comes in is just not relevant to the discussion at hand. I obviously don't think you should just be able to publish hate speech or direct threats as art and expect to get off scot-free. Nor do I think an artist can just do anything when they are producing works for children. But these cases of wiggle-room are not relevant to Xenoblade Chronicles X (as far as I know, anyway) so pardon me for not covering them.

Overall my stance is just that I don't need a middleman changing work to "my sensibilities" or whatever and art evolves through debate. Suppressing creative expression effectively silences one side of it and in absence of malice I don't see merit in suppression. That's the sort of "tl;dr" version with some exceptions (partially outlined above) that, as far as I'm concerned, don't apply to Xenoblade Chronicles X. Luckily, a lot of the debate part can be had either way because they didn't succeed in totally removing these contents from existence, but the medium is the message so I'd still rather have it in game form rather than coverage of the Japanese version.

I know it's rather silly to get this high concept over the case at hand. As I pointed out whenever I deemed it necessary, I don't find the changes to Xenoblade Chronicles X that bad and still got the Special Edition preordered. The recent influx of censorship just brought back my general dislike for the principle and the arbitrariness of the breast slider removal was the straw that broke the camel's back regarding me speaking out against it in principle. I think most of my posts were speaking generally, except when I was answering people raising points specific to the changes in the OP.

Pretty much goes both ways. The insignificance of the content also makes it easier to not care about their addition: Nobody forces you to adjust your character's bust size or put Lin in lingerie.

My issue with those two elements is not based on my desire (or lack thereof) to use them, but their inclusion at all. I do not think either should have been part of the game in the first place, and applaud their removal.

 

[Dicer]

Covering a child character up is fine, but gimmie my boobie slider Nintendo, c'mon...

What a day and age we live in.

 

[Megidolaon]

Its a dumb thing to change. Yeah Im sure Nintendo wants to avoid controversy, but it was so unnecessary. And I usually dont care about other censorship, like Lin or Bravely Default or Tharjabutt. It does suck that Tharjas trophy was removed from Smash 4 though. I just hope FE Fates is left alone.I actualy like the face rubbing for what it is.

 

[Asd202]

This is actually trending on FB. crazy

Boob slider the biggest markting tool for Xenoblade X. Well played Nintendo.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Boob slider the biggest markting tool for Xenoblade X. Well played Nintendo.

I'm pretty sure FB's "trending" section caters to your interests to at least some degree. It's not the same list for everyone.

 

[Weltall Zero]

This kind of shit is unnecessary bro. I could be wrong but I just gave my point of view..and then you come in here like a jerk talking down to me like you are better. Get the hell off you high horse...you can "educate" me without coming into it like you are some god like figure.

The whole "I don't have time to talk to you plebs shit" is why these threads go on and on...talk to people with some respect and maybe there would be some kind of discussion.

No, people bringing the same ignorant arguments over and over without making the barest effort for educating themselves with the basics of feminism 101 is literally what makes these threads go on an on. I just have no energy to do it all over yet again.

This post is really interesting to me because it's the sort of self-fellating post that I would make. Where I talk down to people without addressing any of their points while propping myself up. You could scrub your name off of your post and replace it with mine and no one would be suspicious at all.

It's interesting to see someone else do it. Kind of making me feel self-conscious, because after looking at this it means I came off as a bigger asshole than I thought.

You're welcome.

Spoiler

You're wrong about one thing, though, my post was condescending but at no point was I propping myself up. Perhaps , while you're soul searching, reflect on why did you project that on me?

 

[OrochiJR]

The outfit/ boob slider changes, the omission of Japanese voices in the game as well as the recent changes in Project Zero/ Fatal Frame 5 makes me afraid of what will happen with the localization of Genei Ibunroku#FE (the Shin Megami Tensei - Fire Emblem crossover) when it comes to the west, since it has a very "Japanese" vibe. Do we know if this game will be published by Atlus or Nintendo?

 

[Vincent Grayson]

The outfit/ boob slider changes, the omission of Japanese voices in the game as well as the recent changes in Project Zero/ Fatal Frame 5 makes me afraid of what will happen with the localization of Genei Ibunroku#FE (the Shin Megami Tensei - Fire Emblem crossover) when it comes to the west, since it has a very "Japanese" vibe. Do we know if this game will be published by Atlus or Nintendo?

I think expecting Japanese voices is a huge mistake unless it's a game without much dialogue. The fact that Wii U isn't using BR discs has a big impact in that regard, assuming it isn't just a licensing issue.

 

[MikeyMike]

Shame for the boob slider... always find this type of customization to be hilarious.

Guess this type of fun is not allowed anymore in 2015.

 

[tbd]

Covering a child character up is fine, but gimmie my boobie slider Nintendo, c'mon...

What a day and age we live in.

Not even that considering the way they did it. At least use something that looks like wool and not some ready for war metal chest plate covering her whole upper body. Again, every "evil pedohile" could just create his own character, make it appear even younger than Lin (which isn't hard since her body looks 20) and give it every skimpy shit outfit in the game. Their method doesn't even make sense.

Unlocking costumes is the most motivating thing ever in such a game, so is role-playing and just giving every character outfits based on whatever you feel like, the last trailer even shows exactly this.