Did you missed : "Halo isn't dead yet" on my sentence ?
it's not just about sales, it's about quality and hype, Halo was THE FPS to get when it's a good other FPS to get now, it change everything.
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GameStop: Halo 5 digital sales are in line with other AAA game releases
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Did you missed : "Halo isn't dead yet" on my sentence ?
it's not just about sales, it's about quality and hype, Halo was THE FPS to get when it's a good other FPS to get now, it change everything.
He also started obnoxiously posting pictures of crow on a plate and telling everyone "here's your crow" and "tell me how it tastes" over and over again when MS made their PR announcement. The jabs are more than called for. It went far beyond simply making absurd statements.
Always playing the long game!!!
DriftingSpirit
Member
lol'd at that analyst a few pages back.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I think Halo needs more than a 3 year break to be honest. Maybe just wait until the next Xbox console. 343i can work on other things like maintaining the awesome Halo 5 multiplayer. Really, its the best its been since Halo 2. They could do an ODST like game with a different character and work on their story telling. I can wait to see Halo 6. The series just didnt sell what it used to and honestly the hype and marketing were not there. MCC was a debacle. Just work on building the franchise up again.
So since I'm now getting angry PMs about this thread, I thought I'd mention I've been posting on this topic (and splitting out threads related to it) for years:
Watch Dogs sold 2/3rds of copies on PS4/XB1/PC, Ubisoft reveals digital sales ratios
EA: PS4/XB1 retail games have 10-15% digital sales
Square Enix making ~37% of their HD game sales through digital downloads in the West
Battlefield Hardline sold 80% of console on PS4/XB1, 20% dig, "very happy" with sales
Take-Two (2K/Rockstar): ~20% of new AAA console game sales revenue come from digital
This is not even a complete selection, much less getting into my postings on digital revenue in general.
That this disaster is what happens when I make it about a first party title instead says a lot about the current state of the community and our willingness to have potentially uncomfortable sales discussions around first party properties.
Watch Dogs sold 2/3rds of copies on PS4/XB1/PC, Ubisoft reveals digital sales ratios
EA: PS4/XB1 retail games have 10-15% digital sales
Square Enix making ~37% of their HD game sales through digital downloads in the West
Battlefield Hardline sold 80% of console on PS4/XB1, 20% dig, "very happy" with sales
Take-Two (2K/Rockstar): ~20% of new AAA console game sales revenue come from digital
This is not even a complete selection, much less getting into my postings on digital revenue in general.
That this disaster is what happens when I make it about a first party title instead says a lot about the current state of the community and our willingness to have potentially uncomfortable sales discussions around first party properties.
Ok, then. So they share that information freely.
It's a bit weird given the situation, and since Gamestop can't really control anything if they possess that knowledge. Oh well.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Somehow some way this still wont be enough to convince people watch
boredandlazy
Member
Some people are whinging to mods about this? *sniggers*
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I just read that post again...who da hell is sending angry pms because they can't take halo underperforming like wth
That's really a half truth.
Are you really surprised though? Halo is by far the biggest "but digital though" movement I've seen on GAF. I'd blame MS' misleading PR more than anything else honestly. It gave people an impression that the release was incredibly successful and when that became irreconcilable with the actual software sales they latched onto the only other unknown variable. The only sad or unexpected thing about this whole mess is that people are so unwilling to accept the evidence to the contrary instead of just simply brushing it off as a result of bias at every opportunity.
Welfare
Member
Pretty sad people are mad about this. Digital sales are still just fraction of a game's total sales, so I don't know if people are getting mad because the ratio is closer to 80:20, or that even with digital, Halo 5 is still a disappointment in sales compared to previous Halo's.
I think leeh also kicked off the discussions by saying something like "You're crazy if you think Halo 5 digital didn't outsell physical" in response to someone." I mean saying something completely wrong is one thing, but being so cocksure and rude about it...
Nightengale
Member
It's true during launch, no?
I mean, any setbacks on poor sell-out management comes after the fact.
Care to clarify what you mean? Obviously retailers can do buybacks on their stock if it isnt selling to consumers but that seems pretty rare for MS. Instead the stock just seems to get stuffed and then dwindle over long periods of time before the next big push happens. Unless I'm misreading the implications of the numbers anyway.
It gives GS an idea of the trend of digital because it directly affects their business, infact weren't they the ones who said they were no longer selling bundles with digital copies in them? Can't imagine them making the call unless they were weighing the difference between digital sales against potential lost revenue with pre-owned sales.
Revenue
Global sales
Software and Hardware
It's really not that hard to understand. They included everything they could to make it look like the biggest Halo launch ever.
boredandlazy
Member
In isolation it did sell well. In context though it had to have been a disappointment to Microsoft's higher-ups. Some people's inability to be able to differentiate between those two things didn't help.
I still think the PR is mostly to blame for people's unreasonable expectations. It straight up claimed it was the most successful Halo launch ever. Of course people are going to expect it to be on par or better with previous releases when you have the publisher spouting nonsense like that.
Angry PM's? Wow. How pathetic
Warm Machine
Member
20% or thereabouts is a pretty good number anyway. It is people who think it is lower that drive me bananas. If NPD said Halo 5 did almost 1 million that is still 200,000 digital in the US. Personally I'd fathom a guess at around 22-23% based on how much dashboard and direct sales advertising there was for the game in comparison to other titles. They made a dash tab just for Halo 5.
The bundle thing is different because they can do something about it, such as not accept bundles with digital vouchers.
But for standalone games, whether their digital adoption rate is low or high, they can't do much about it. If low digital sales then it's all good, if it rises fast then their options are limited to lowering their price, which can't happen because that'd cut away at their margin. If they do then Microsoft will just lower the digital price to match again. They can't ask Microsoft to do anything like in the case of the bundle situation.
Primethius
Banned
I'd send Nirolak angry PM's too.
If I was drunk.
And thought it was Y2kev.
Just the idea that shipped is as good as sold for publishers. Also it's not just buy back that publishers have to worry about, they also (generally) have to cover price cuts or sales that retailers need to do to move product.
Conflict NZ
Member
Seriously? It's sad that people are so upset by this that they have to message mods because low game sales are hurting their feelings.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I plan on sending y2kev angry pm's on
TLG release date
CosmicQueso
Member
Can we stop and think through this for a minute since it seems to be a common thought?
Microsoft and GameStop have a deep and long-standing partnership.
In the US, GameStop is:
- Microsoft's #1 retailer of Hardware
- Microsoft's #1 retailer of 1st party Packaged software
- Microsoft's #1 external retailer of 1st party Digital software
- Microsoft's #1 retailer of 3rd party Packaged and Digital software (which MS receives royalties on)
- Microsoft's #1 external retailer of XBL subscription codes and XBL currency
- Microsoft's key partner in the establishment of Digital retail programs
The list goes on beyond this.
The idea that, for some reason, Microsoft wouldn't share critical pieces of information (such as Digital share) to GameStop so it can effectively manage its business is not reasonable.
Microsoft and GameStop are not in competition. They are business partners. And business partners share critical information. If Tony Bartel says something about the business, the best thing for anyone reading that statement to do is listen and learn.
Now, some analysts are saying silly things, because they themselves cannot connect the dots between MS' PR and GameStop's statements. That's a big red flag. One of those two parties did not provide enough detail, or is not providing very clear direction as to what comprises the position. So, some analysts are making unreasonable digital estimates (when comparing against any existing benchmark). Because they can't tie the two statements out.
At some point, someone will have to clarify or restate.
They are in competition when it comes to games software. Microsoft wants to sell as much digital as it can and Gamestop is the exact opposite. If one customer buys a digital copy then that's a lost physical sale.
I agree that they should share some information, but not everything, especially not a number that:
Microsoft wants it to be high
Gamestop wants it to be low
Either way, it doesn't really matter anymore, all that matter is that it's being done already. I get that.
BleedOrange
Banned
Xbox One weak hardware and general stigma + Halo 4 garbage + Halo MCC destroying the brand = duh its going to underperforming compared to prior entries. It's still a shame though because from fan reactions it seems like this is the best Halo multiplayer possibly ever.
What will be funny though is when they announce that it's the highest grossing Halo title. I could see it happening.
What will be funny though is when they announce that it's the highest grossing Halo title. I could see it happening.
Ah yes I forgot about price cuts and sales. There have been a lot of people saying otherwise about sold-in being the prime metric for publishers/manufacturers so it's good to hear that sell-through is still king so to speak. Thanks for clarifying.
Oh that's almost guaranteed thanks to REQ packs.
CosmicQueso
Member
But that's not entirely true. GameStop also sells digital content. And the two companies are targeting different customers.
GameStop sells a lot to customers who trade games in, are part of Power Up Rewards, or who like to deal with cash transactions, none of which MS offers.
They're not in competition. Microsoft makes money if GameStop sells a game, Microsoft makes money if someone buys a game on XBL. MS makes a bit more if people buy direct, but if someone wants to buy from GameStop, MS still gets paid so that's okay to them too.
There is no scenario in which you can rationalize less than a million at retail in the first month for Halo 5 in the entire United States and say it sold well. They mishandled their biggest property, and they are paying for it. They felt they needed Master Chief Collection to sell the console since the Xbox One struggled out of the gate. Something about the marketing did not click as well. A lot of different mistakes led to this.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Between the halo sales thread and fallout 4 review,bug threads November has been pretty fun
yep. the spin has been awesome.
EventHorizon
Member
A lot of Microsoft's business goes through GameStop and MS wouldn't want to upset them. If they did then GameStop could retaliate by giving them less shelf space. If I'm not mistaken that is one reason why digital sales don't have many discounts. If the retailers thought they would be undercut by online sales then they'd have less desire to stock the product.
MS is in as much competition with GameStop as any other store that sells video games. That competition will only grow as digital sales increase as a percentage of sales. Being in competition doesn't mean that you also can't cooperate if it is mutually beneficial. For example Microsoft has cooperated with Apple, and Intel with AMD. Microsoft would love nothing better than to increase digital sales since they make more money that way. They cooperate with GameStop because they have to, not because they want to. Remember that at the beginning of this generation, MS made a hard play towards digital sales. They only retreated because Sony didn't follow and they got slapped down hard.
All that being said MS currently has close ties with GameStop for all the reasons you cite. I am just pointing out that their relationship is more complicated than simply being business partners.
boredandlazy
Member
'In isolation' means you take out all other factors, and in this case that would include sales of previous entries, series' reputation etc.
Most games would be seen as extremely successful if they sold as much as Halo 5 did at launch.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
I managed a store at a big games retailer in the UK. All I know is we were always playing down digital and it's sales, never talked about its benefits. Sharing games for families etc.
With that in mind I wouldn't trust the gamespot guy, I also wouldn't want to make drastic claims about halo. Many people know the game is the best shooter this Xmas period (opinion)and it's slightly sad to see its low sales, but ms and 343 deserve backlash over the mcc. Halo isn't what it used to be in the mainstream. No need to be sad about it, it's still here for those of us that want that incredible competitive gameplay. I'm sure it will do just fine sales wise over the holidays. We just have to Hope it recoups it's budget over its lifetime
With that in mind I wouldn't trust the gamespot guy, I also wouldn't want to make drastic claims about halo. Many people know the game is the best shooter this Xmas period (opinion)and it's slightly sad to see its low sales, but ms and 343 deserve backlash over the mcc. Halo isn't what it used to be in the mainstream. No need to be sad about it, it's still here for those of us that want that incredible competitive gameplay. I'm sure it will do just fine sales wise over the holidays. We just have to Hope it recoups it's budget over its lifetime
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Im not surprised with halo even tho it is pretty bad but the fallout stuff caught me off guard completely, i had no idea bethseda had a following like that
and they still dont care lol
Just read the thread.
Screw the news story; the real shocker here is how deplorable people on GAF can behave. Angry PMs? Seriously? C'mon now, lads and lasses. We're all friendly, so let's... be... friendly. I came here not so long ago to get away from that nonsense elsewhere on the net.
On a brighter note: thanks as always to those who have posted valuable insight on everything.
Screw the news story; the real shocker here is how deplorable people on GAF can behave. Angry PMs? Seriously? C'mon now, lads and lasses. We're all friendly, so let's... be... friendly. I came here not so long ago to get away from that nonsense elsewhere on the net.
On a brighter note: thanks as always to those who have posted valuable insight on everything.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Shoot can ya blame them! You've seen the spin and protection. I wouldn't change a damn thing either.
Microsofts pr and bethseda would be the ultimate win lol
CosmicQueso
Member
Nevermind. I'm out. This is my stop off this crazy train. Enjoy flying off the precipice of sanity, all those brave enough to continue.
Boombloxer
Member
Stop ruining the fun!
I want to hear about dual gpus next.
And you too, Cosmic! I need to see how deep this rabbit hole goes.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
Just read the thread.
Screw the news story; the real shocker here is how deplorable people on GAF can behave. Angry PMs? Seriously? C'mon now, lads and lasses. We're all friendly, so let's... be... friendly. I came here not so long ago to get away from that nonsense elsewhere on the net.
On a brighter note: thanks as always to those who have posted valuable insight on everything.
From lurking on this forum this gen it does seem to be a bloodbath sometimes, it can be disheartening. There is so much negativity this gen. It's kinda crazy, when there have been some great positives. MS got humbled. Sony brought out decent specs, ms brought out great games, Sony has the best multiplats and a good online system, awesome games around the corner. Bloodborne is amazing. MS first party is pretty top tier and still a lot to cone. Did I say uncharted! Pc be killing it bar batman.
Sorry this is about sales. Digital is growing, there's no escape Mr gamestop. They will fight it the best they can but it Is ultimately inevitable
Poimandres
Member
This gen? It's always been this way, and most likely always will. It's human nature to choose a side, it's difficult to maintain objectivity. This is a comment on the nature of man.