Well, the next couple weeks are going to be a high for his campaign. He's going to get momentum from his "loss." He'll win big in NH. All recent polls show him winning by 20-30 points there. That's going to give him another boost going into NV (a caucus state that went for Clinton in 2008). Can he win there? I don't know. Can he rally African Americans to his campaign in SC? I don't know. He certainly has the messaging.
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The Iowa Caucuses |Feb 1|: Winter is here
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Well, the next couple weeks are going to be a high for his campaign. He's going to get momentum from his "loss." He'll win big in NH. All recent polls show him winning by 20-30 points there. That's going to give him another boost going into NV (a caucus state that went for Clinton in 2008). Can he win there? I don't know. Can he rally African Americans to his campaign in SC? I don't know. He certainly has the messaging.
That sounds like weak and pathetic talk to me.
I will agree that there is tone as a reaction to the majority of opposition posts here. I'm not pretending otherwise. I haven't seen your previous posts. I can't find you on 76-78 and I can't find it in your post history.
Infinite Stars
Member
So, dumb question: Since this was the weeding out of the lower candidates and the race is now basically a 3 man event, where does Ben Carson's supporters go when he drops from the race?
You sound like Donald Trump lol
Crimson_Gold
Member
To the neurosurgeon
you should watch these, very informative and they talk about some things that don't normally get talked about by politicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCnrQZbqIQU&list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A&index=1
this one is really good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeFlOkPvBqs
they make the point that bernie sanders is the politician who is most following what martin king was preaching, especially if you look at his speeches post-I have a dream
You sound like what's wrong with Democracy...
See below.
But I would not disagree that a number of Sanders supporters sometimes engage with the same rhetoric of Trump supporters, just spoken from the left.
That's nice, but I'm talking about average citizens, not people in Washington. Young people seem to get riled up about these issues and then once enough time passes they seem to just give up.
BoboBrazil
Member
Carson supporters will go Trump.
maquiladora
Member
Cruz/Trump.
nitekrawlwer
Member
For all the people that say Bernie is offering good policy for blacks I have to respectfully disagree. Bernie's policy automatically fails because it addressed problems from the colorblind framing of class and economics. If it worked that way traditional social services would have solved these issues long ago.
I hearnestly question what value many of the promises his supporters think of will actually do much of anything for blacks. What good is a college education for a man they won't hire over a white dropout because his name sounds more black? I understand the advantages of education, but even given that education we don't see the same success for racial reasons, not class or economic reasons. To tell me you have policy that is good for me it would have to see me racially to tackle the problems I face. Anything less is tantamount to denying that those problems exist. Something America has perfected for centuries.
I hearnestly question what value many of the promises his supporters think of will actually do much of anything for blacks. What good is a college education for a man they won't hire over a white dropout because his name sounds more black? I understand the advantages of education, but even given that education we don't see the same success for racial reasons, not class or economic reasons. To tell me you have policy that is good for me it would have to see me racially to tackle the problems I face. Anything less is tantamount to denying that those problems exist. Something America has perfected for centuries.
Prodigal Son
Member
Ehh. I'd say Cruz. I feel like the people who are inclined to go Trump have already gone Trump.
Thanks for these, I'll check them out. For what it's worth, I do support Bernie Sanders. But like in the recent reparation thread, I don't think that economic justice necessarily gives the social justice that African-Americans need.
Macho Madness
Member
The last one I can find is Gravis that has Clinton with a +23 spread. Taken 12/23-12/27. The poll you're citing is from OvertimePolitics.com. What's that?
Gravis had weird polling for Iowa and NH which both heavily favoured Hillary. Plus a C rating from 538.
We need more.
I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts after watching
Psychoward
Banned
What about fighting against the war on drugs and acknowledging there's a clear race problem there?
There's only so much the government can do about racist employers.
That's nice, but who are the ones who can pass the legislation? It's not average citizens.
Average citizens continue talking about income inequality...then what? What's the next step to actually making things happen? Just talking?
Macho Madness
Member
Caring and voting in more elections than just the president.
This is a rather strange attitude. If a couple of politicians in Washington are talking about a thing but nobody's listening, then nothing is going to get done. When the public doesn't shut up about a thing, then more lawmakers are likely to listen to their concerns.
nitekrawlwer
Member
Hilary does that too. It's not like outside her propensity towards aggressive foreign action your missing out on the socialist goodies like more healthcare and cheaper schools.
No there isn't. They can work in unconscious bias testing, incentive programs. Offer bonuses and tax credits to companies that show sufficient diversity.
Bus the pre k children to help end segregation in schooling and foster empathy from racial boogeymen syndrome at a young age.
There are many things the government can do to segregate American society and provide more even handed assistance. There is only little they can do about it if they don't acknowledge race as a part of the problem. It exists outside of incarceration and disenfranchisement.
Prodigal Son
Member
Poor guy. I actually feel bad for no rational reason.
cpp_is_king
Member
I'm watching it, he seems fine. Just that the reporters aren't asking questions that put him on the defensive, it's just a regular Q&A session so he's calm and giving calm answers.
Edit: He also announced an endorsement from Scott Brown (some random senator from Massachussetts I guess)
shinra-bansho
Member
Well he should be dispirited. Losers don't get spirit.
I think the point being made is that things were done though, even if one may have never heard of the likes of Barney Frank.
For some hillarity, let's watch both Chris Matthews on Hardball and Hillary both meltdown about how younger voters "don't know anything" about politics, and how "only incremental change" allowed for things like "FDR's new deal" and "Civil rights act legislation", and how Bernie is "nothing but an idealogue politician"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODSbTL-6i7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxC26dyn7ZY
For shame Chris. I used to watch you religiously, but i guess big money was the trigger to show your true face?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODSbTL-6i7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxC26dyn7ZY
For shame Chris. I used to watch you religiously, but i guess big money was the trigger to show your true face?
Good god Jeb..
Yeah, such as your mystical scenario entitled "Black people suddenly prefer Bernie." There's no way such a huge demographic shift is going to occur this late in the process. It's virtually unheard of. What would cause it? "I marched with MLK" thirty times in the mirror and hope people listen? Bernie is simply not charismatic enough to encourage such a shift. It's not happening.
When you're basically saying his shot is to win New Hampshire and maybe Nevada(??) then that says it all about how ridiculously, absurdly tiny his shot is. What other scenario do you envision? At this point, you're hoping for some deus ex machina to come down from the heavens and change the trajectory for Bernie. When you're at that stage of statistically unlikely-to-ever-happen shit, it's as good as knowing there is not a real shot at all. You're waiting on a scandal.
He can't close the gap in other states, not enough time til Super Tuesday unless something big occurs. Which is why you needed a narrative changer, like "momentum is in Bernie's direction". With Iowa under, that's off. So... Like, Hillary curses children in the next debate. Or it's revealed Bill Clinton performs dark sexual rituals with demons, complete with photos.
Or you can just wait patiently for when the primary season is over and quote this post again.
cpp_is_king
Member
I find this actually hilarious. poor jeb. He's the real loser in all this.
I hate to just link to Bernie's page on this, but https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/ discusses his various policies (violence, economic injustice, environmental problems, etc.) in relation to minorities fairly well. Now, you're absolutely right - a lot of those policies are colorblind. That said, it's true that even so many of them would greatly benefit people of color, like raising the minimum wage to $15, banning employers from discriminating against employees by criminal history and re-instating voting rights for people who had them stripped away by felony convictions, ending the war on drugs, etc. He does have some things he lists there that are specifically intended for the purposes of rectifying racial disparities like "address[ing]address the inadequate environmental cleanup efforts of Superfund hazardous waste sites in communities of color."
Some things though can't really be legislated away. It's already illegal to discriminate against someone for their racial/ethnic/etc. background when hiring - it's not like you can make it any more of a law to "not pass over that buy because his name sounds black." A lot of that sort of thing would have to come from society changing itself. (edit: although I just read the post on the last page with the suggestion about bias testing and that seems like a good idea)
I don't think either candidate is really quite adequate for meeting the needs of minorities; Bernie obviously had a blind spot that he's been working on and Hillary hasn't really promised any sweeping changes herself. They both seem pretty similar in their stances but Hillary has better messaging.
Now, as someone who mostly supports Bernie for the sake of pushing the overton window, I do think actual socialism would be greatly beneficial to non-whites since it would massively elevate their political/economic power. Not to say that real socialism (as in, the workers controlling the means of production) can't be rife with racial problems itself. Unions obviously have all sorts of messy history with race. But to me that would be the best way to ensure that people at the bottom of the socio/political/economic ladder get a real say in the matter. Unfortunately that's a long way off or may just never happen.
lets not get ahead of ourselves. Wait for NV and SC. If she blows him out then we can say its probably a done deal.
Tesseract
Banned
haha, he is salty as fuuuuuuck
maquiladora
Member
Trump cheapskate campaign spending.
I mean I have no problem waiting, because it's not like the end result is gonna be any different from what I've said.
Elfforkusu
Member
The bolded implies that [existing] social services are sufficient to solve the problems of poverty and wealth inequality. They're not, even for whites. In america, you die in the socioeconomic class you were born in, no matter what race you are. That is the present, and it's also the future under Hillary or a republican president.
Is it drastically different under Bernie? Impossible to say. It might be. But racial stereotypes in 2016 are intrinsically linked with mass incarceration (war on drugs) and economic inequality. Bernie's answer is not complete, but I guess I don't see how anything (for example) Hillary has offered is even in the same ballpark.
As I said before, he's a billionaire, his kids are millionaires and all grown up, he won't get to spend his money in this lifetime.
Why not blow a few millions on the opportunity to become President?? There's nothing more grandiose for a man like him left to do. More spending on the ground game would've likely put him over the top in Iowa, as the polls had him ahead.
He should go all-out.
Yes, this is true as well. Social services don't actually exist in the US for the purpose of getting rid of poverty, they exist to keep capitalism chugging - or at least that's how it's been for decades now. It's the government subsidizing the capitalist class, letting them pay workers low wages (or get rid of them) while it picks up the tab to keep society from collapsing in on itself. That's why welfare, social security, etc. and even unions are liberal, reformist institutions and not revolutionary institutions. Actually ridding ourselves of poverty would require increasing the economic and political power of the working class and poor.
Actually, it's not.
http://priceonomics.com/social-mobility-statistics-are-racist/
This is a perfect example of exactly why the Sanders analysis, and thus the Sanders policy platform, fails when it comes to people of color. It postulates a sameness of economic experience that just isn't true. Poor white people really do just do way better across a variety of measurements than, not just poor black people, but often middle-class black people as well. That's the American way.
Prodigal Son
Member
Jeb!
Actually, it's not.
http://priceonomics.com/social-mobility-statistics-are-racist/
This is a perfect example of exactly why the Sanders analysis, and thus the Sanders policy platform, fails when it comes to people of color. It postulates a sameness of economic experience that just isn't true. Poor white people really do just do way better across a variety of measurements than, not just poor black people, but often middle-class black people as well. That's the American way.
I don't think anyone's implying that black and white poor people have a "sameness of economic experience", since everyone knows that black people obviously have it worse off, just that social services as they are have not been sufficient for ending poverty generally speaking . Although this is a very interesting chart since it demonstrates that such a statement may not be entirely true, and thank you for posting it.
Good Job Bob
Member
Actually, it's not.
http://priceonomics.com/social-mobility-statistics-are-racist/
This is a perfect example of exactly why the Sanders analysis, and thus the Sanders policy platform, fails when it comes to people of color. It postulates a sameness of economic experience that just isn't true. Poor white people really do just do way better across a variety of measurements than, not just poor black people, but often middle-class black people as well. That's the American way.
Interesting, and what makes Hillary's analysis and policy platform better for people of color (assuming you believe it is) if you don't mind me asking?
The tides of change have to happen on the national level, no matter how slight. You can't have someone go from 0 to 50% and then say its nothing on the momentum side.
When he gets to SC momentum WILL pick up
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/2/1478692/-South-Carolina-Rep-Joe-Neal-to-endorse-BernieSanders
Well, maybe all the Hillary supporters are as overconfident as you. On election day, they might figure she's the guaranteed winner, so they sleep in and don't bother voting.
Or maybe most of Hillary's voters really have a lot of love for Bernie, but they bought into this narrative that he can't win and he isn't electable. Then when Bernie wins in New Hampshire and they all realise that he really is electable, they decide to vote for him instead of Hillary.
Or maybe Hillary twists her ankle and has to stop campaigning for a few crucial weeks.
Or maybe Kanye West endorses Bernie and people lose their shit.
Or maybe this coin flipping business will really add weight to Bernie's: "Get money out of politics!" message
Or maybe Hillary looks a little ill in her next ad and her voters are turned off, but Bernie looks like someone you can have a beer with!
Unknown variables matter
I don't know winning a single state Bernie has been favoured to win since, what, mid last year, is going to give Bernie the momentum to punch through his electability arguments.
Not saying it's impossible for him to win Nevada, but it'll require something more than what has been fait accompli for almost six months.
Not saying it's impossible for him to win Nevada, but it'll require something more than what has been fait accompli for almost six months.
That's actually a pretty good interview, shows Hillary's pragmatism and understanding of politics and compromise. Yes Matthews is obviously bias, lol, but he's not saying anything terribly outlandish.
edit:
got linked to a good Ellen interview from that one too, nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_02BeByzqPY
Hillary talks about the difficulty of how people perceive her in politics.
Actually, it's not.
http://priceonomics.com/social-mobility-statistics-are-racist/
This is a perfect example of exactly why the Sanders analysis, and thus the Sanders policy platform, fails when it comes to people of color. It postulates a sameness of economic experience that just isn't true. Poor white people really do just do way better across a variety of measurements than, not just poor black people, but often middle-class black people as well. That's the American way.
The fact of the matter is, Bernie Sanders has the absolute best platform to directly impact the black and urban citizen in regards to both economic and social reformation regardless of whether or not he supports reprarations or not.
Its a false dichotomy to say that because he legitimately advocates for fairness in the system, and laws that directly translate to general positive net impact for everyone, that if he's not a messiah that is looking to advocate for the solving of all intrinsic problems for all races, he should be dismissed.
He's by far the best platform wise of all these politicians to identify and take on many of the major problems of this country, and that's that.
Nobody should be under any allusion that the dude is perfect, that was the Obama effect that was apparently all bluster, but he has his head, heart and plans in order.
Wait and see until he gets there. I implore you to wait and see. He will carve his own slice of the electorate, make no mistake about that.
Bernie's campaign is really going state by state and having people even see what he's really about.
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