Goddamn you!
Oh, hey, new page...
Hrm, should delete the tweet and post a quick and sincere apology. The end.
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Sonic the Hedgehog's new PR person is incredible
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Oh, hey, new page...
Hrm, should delete the tweet and post a quick and sincere apology. The end.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
I don't get it.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I always hated Sonic anyway
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
1-3&K are pretty cool though.
It will be all about what happens tomorrow when he answers the mess....
He's Sonic. I'm sure he can spin his way out of trouble.
It's not like he's going to double down on it.
I mean,
one: say for instance the PR guy was indeed highly transphobic, would they risk career suicide sticking to their guns?
and two: even if they were willing to lose their job to be transphobic, why, why, why, would you do it via the Sonic the Hedgehog Twitter account? What possible madness would consume you that you had to make Sonic the Hedgehog your mouthpiece for prejudice?
It's a silly mistake because they didn't know the meme had an offensive context. Apology or not tomorrow, this is the smallest of small potatoes. This is barely a french fry.
Intent surely does matter. Both the person making the 'offensive' joke and the person being 'offended' need to be understanding of each other.
Also, consider, the more 'offended' we are by things that are not meant to be offensive, the less likely we are to have companies and their PR interact with us in the way that this twitter account does.
If they find that unintended mistakes like this can cause negative impressions, they will likely go back to interacting with bland, vague corporate-speak. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt and consider their intent, especially on one-off mistakes like this, rather than throwing around labels at them like transphobic. This of course would be entirely different if I thought their intent was in fact to be offensive to our trans. brothers and sisters.
Another way to think about it is, if someone accidentally steps on my foot and hurts me, I probably won't care too much. I would appreciate an acknowledgement that it was an accident, but I wouldn't necessarily need it. On the other hand if someone did this on purpose, it would be a different story. Intent always matters.
Also, consider, the more 'offended' we are by things that are not meant to be offensive, the less likely we are to have companies and their PR interact with us in the way that this twitter account does.
If they find that unintended mistakes like this can cause negative impressions, they will likely go back to interacting with bland, vague corporate-speak. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt and consider their intent, especially on one-off mistakes like this, rather than throwing around labels at them like transphobic. This of course would be entirely different if I thought their intent was in fact to be offensive to our trans. brothers and sisters.
Another way to think about it is, if someone accidentally steps on my foot and hurts me, I probably won't care too much. I would appreciate an acknowledgement that it was an accident, but I wouldn't necessarily need it. On the other hand if someone did this on purpose, it would be a different story. Intent always matters.
I mean if he answers with "sorry, my bad, didn't knew it was transphobic" or "lol everyone is offended this days just a joke you sjw"
Twilightzoney
Member
I honestly just found it funny. I didn't know the real context to it till later on when someone pointed it out. Still didn't find it a huge issue. Hope things go okay though.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah that's a good way of putting it. Good post Rhysser!
I don't think the second one is going to happen. It's either apology or they'll just say nothing and probably start Googling memes for offensive contexts before posting.
RowdyReverb
Member
This is how I felt about it. I thought it was just a non sequitur non-answer to an odd question to ask Sonic the Hedgehog.
I would have never known it was a meme, let alone slight against trans people. Can't keep up with all this stuff. I've been following this thread and frankly I'm astounded at the depth of knowledge required to "get" the joke and to be offended by it.
"Sonic loves everyone, regardless of who they are or who they like, including attack helicopters"
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
If someone accidentally stood on my foot, I'd absolutely expect an apology from them. Otherwise I would feel the same as if they'd done it on purpose.
If the Sonic dude made the joke with good intentions, he would have quickly found out that this meme has a clear history around mocking/diminishing trans people. Saying sorry isn't an admittance that you're a transphobe or anything of the sort, but not apologising suggests you are.
It's obviously a matter of degree. If someone shot me in the arm by accident I'd want a lot more than an apology and if they accidentally bumped me on their way to a meeting they were late to I wouldn't even think twice about it. Making unintentional small things a big deal juts puts distance between people.
I think leaving him to choose to apologize or not is appropriate, and if he does, great. But reading that it was intentional if he doesn't is not really appropriate because I don't really think there was some significant damage by his mistake. I think reading intent like this into stuff unless they explicitly publically apologize will first lead to them apologizing, then googling everything to avoid making a mistake in the first place, and then finally deciding that it's just easier to copy-paste pre-approved corporate bolierplate. You can't really have it both ways I don't think. And it's totally fine if you prefer the pre-approved boilerplate too. I just personally don't, and enjoy this twitter account and wish more professional entities would interact this way. I want to make it possible for them by being understanding of small mistakes and not requiring them to do extra work when they make such mistakes. In return for that sacrifice, I get more interesting communication.
You can get a better sense if he intended to offend trans people if he keeps doing it at a frequency that would suggest it's not a mistake, rather than calling for an apology, which can just as easily be faked.
The thing is if someone accidentally steps on your foot they usually know they have. In this instance though someone posting a something that's usually used to attack trans people might not actually know that they are posting something that's used to attack trans people. A quick sorry tweet would go a long way, and maybe help educate some people that follow the account.
Attack isn't really the right word, but I'm drawing a blank on what fits better.
FWIW I'm trans and didn't find it offensive, but that level of casual transphobia is still annoying.
Doctor Ironic
Member
Yeah p much. The real target of ire here is the position that people shouldn't be upset by the joke at all.
If Ruby starts using the official Sonic Twitter account to teach children transphobic slurs, then we can start freaking out.
Simbabbad
Member
Nothing indicates the Sonic PR person is one of those people. People should be judged according to what they say, not other people's second thoughts.
The "check your privilege" thing as originally created by activists in 2006 (apparently) was completely bonkers and shameful, though, and does deserve to be ridiculed. I'm glad it became a derogatory meme toward some activists, and believe me, I don't have much "privilege" according to that association's scale. It's just not how life and happiness works.
As for the helicopter thing... I knew guys who told me they were dogs trapped into human bodies, so to me that joke seems more to poke fun at that sort of excessive seriousness about personal kinks than transgenderism which is another thing entirely.
That seems a bit much for a joke not targeted at you...
You let words on Twitter make you lose your shit at work?
I agree that it would be great if he decided to make that a teachable moment for all his followers. I'm just saying I won't hold it against him if he doesn't or pressure him to do it.
Also labeling it transphobia I think is inappropriate as I think that means he does in fact know that it's bad. Transphobia is negative emotions or attitudes toward trans people, not accidentally offending them by doing something by accident that OTHER transphobics do on purpose.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
All I can say is: Jesus Christ, pick your fucking battles. Outrage at innocuous shit like this is what makes people treat it like a joke when actual, serious offenses are made, and is what fuels the "look how PC culture bullshit is ruining 'Murrica"-types.
I do not think throwing up in the bathroom and telling my boss i have been attacked by an I.H would be losing my shit?
EDIT: I.H =INternet Hedghawg
Well, that or they're kidding.
RowdyReverb
Member
Does Sonic apologize in the canon? Would apologizing on Twitter be breaking character?
This is the most surreal news and resulting kerfuffle I've seen in a while. Just take a step back and see that this is an outcry against Sonic the Hedgehog making a veiled/unintentional transphobic joke.
This is the most surreal news and resulting kerfuffle I've seen in a while. Just take a step back and see that this is an outcry against Sonic the Hedgehog making a veiled/unintentional transphobic joke.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
....Look I saw this and I can understand people not liking the origin of the meme but....you're joking right?
Okay you must be.
The only correct way to do it is to do an old school "Sonic Sez..Says"
Get jaleel on the phone
DannyDanger
Member
Noooo not the Sonic thread!
Not like this gaf... Not like this...
Not like this gaf... Not like this...
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Why care about the opinions of people who believe that stuff?
I usually expect some light hearted humor and fun but fuck this is like an all out war now...
UncleGrumpskin
Neo Member
Otherkin are acceptable targets. Doesn't matter if a lot of them are young depressed people with identity issues, they will always just be the butt of a joke to a lot of people. Just like when the account insulted Chris Chan and no one cared, cuz he's an acceptable target who deserves to be mocked and shamed by thousands of largely anonymous people.
I personally find it sad, but that's just how this shit works online.
I personally find it sad, but that's just how this shit works online.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
If that's your argument, then why care about a joke that wasn't even intended to be offensive or associated with trans people at all either?
Look. Everyone knows this joke was innocuous. It was not an attack on trans people, or a joke made at their expense. It was not aggressive, it was not intended to be offensive. People, the overwhelming majority of which are not trans, warped the joke to be taken as an offense and behalf of others. Making your stand on an innocent, light-hearted, non-aggressive, meme-fueled, otherkin joke on a Twitter account for an anthropomorphic videogame character is both absurd, and cheapens any legitimate cases against real attacks against the trans community. It's stupidity on the level of "Star Wars is racist because Vader wears black" and turns serious issues into a fucking joke.
Because it has a sort of 'boy who cried wolf' psychological effect in the general public. There is no black-and-white dividing line between people who think one way vs another. More people will take something (like the problems trans people face in society to day) seriously if they perceive the instances of it that are highlighted to actually be serious. It's in some ways illogical. If I show you 10 instances that are serious and 10 that are not, vs showing you JUST 10 serious instances, you should logically conclude in both cases that there really IS a problem, since in both cases I showed you 10 serious instances. But people just don't do that, they have heuristics that lead them to believe that the relative incidence (50% vs 100%) matters.
I think there is often this false notion in the SJW crowd of "Well, we don't care about THOSE backward people" but there isn't a "THOSE" people, it's just a continuum of people and a trade-off between what actions you want to focus on as serious in your message and how many people will take the message seriously as a result. Finding the right balance is key. You can't ignore serious actions , and you can't highlight actions where most people will think "this is not really a problem". Because they will casually apply the "this is not really a problem" mentality to instances that really are a problem.
Improvidence
Neo Member
its great to see companies hiring someone to not give the SAME OLD PR Lines & actually engage their fans & community. This guy/gal is awesome!!
stan423321
Member
Because unless the issue is already "team A vs. team B", the audience, the potential source for more people on both teams, exists, and you are just going to make them sympathize more with opposing team.
FF Seraphim
Member
Holy shit so I had to check what the fuss is all about and the comments on twitter is a rabbit hole of insanity.
Going to be honest, I do not really see the issue since I highly doubt the intent was to make fun of transgenders. Feels like people are picking this up because someone directed them to it. Not sure how the Sonic Tweet is a worthy battlefield to fight for equal rights.
Going to be honest, I do not really see the issue since I highly doubt the intent was to make fun of transgenders. Feels like people are picking this up because someone directed them to it. Not sure how the Sonic Tweet is a worthy battlefield to fight for equal rights.
Then what do we call it? People say "that's so gay" or call people "fags" without meaning any ill will towards gay people but we still rightfully call it casual homophobia.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Well BY2K posted it here so this is clearly his fault.
It isn't a big deal and the most people want is an apology which isn't really too much to ask for really. I'm more annoyed at these patronizing posts telling people what not to be offended at than anything.
Also transgenders isn't a word.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm confused, why would trans people be upset over an otherkin joke? I've only ever heard hate from trans people towards otherkin(especially those who identify as inanimate objects) for making trans people seem like a joke.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Ok.
I care because it did offend people. While I doubt it intended to, it still did.
With making this a thing you teach the guy running the account to think about his jokes a little more and show others that it isn't really cool to say this stuff. If you think that is "absurd" or "cheapens" legitimate issues then go ahead. It's ok to make mistakes, along with being mature enough to apologies for them.
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