Just like Super Mario 3D World isn't a 3D Mario game, right?
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Pokémon Moon and Sun leaked
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Just like Super Mario 3D World isn't a 3D Mario game, right?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
err not really, the game relies on structures and polygons for mapping (i.e. something that can't be done on sprites)
and yes I get your comparison (fighting game), but much like 3d fighters rely on plane position, so does the environments in Gen VI
GhostTrick
Banned
1. There's no need to be patronizing. If you dont like what I say, you can choose to not answer
I mean, I didnt said anything offensive, trolling or anything
2. No, you dont need too because it's missing the point. It doesnt make the game fully 3D the same way ALBW having sections with camera behind Link doesnt make the game fully 3D. Pokémon does that as a cosmetic element. It's like "woooooah the camera is changing here !". But most of the time, it's a top down view with a game built with top down view in mind and the scale that goes with it.
Huh?!?
It's an RPG. I freely admit Pokémon is to the easy end of the scale but if you have to grind in Pokémon surely that means it was too hard for you?
Like how else do you think they could add difficulty? Of course you can trivialise it by grinding, that's true for most if not all RPGs.
I disagree. Gen 6 is way easier.
Even with some other factors there's no way that could have happened without the difficulty drop.
Can you really call that an accurate measurement of difficulty?
A game that uses 3D models is a 3D game. You might prefer a different camera or art style, and that's valid, but playing semantics seems like an ineffective way to argue for what you want.
i'm going with:
red/blue direct sequel (20th anniversary, duh)
gen vii
3ds reveal tomorrow, but will be on nx at launch and pushed more heavily as an nx launch title ala zelda wii u/nx and twlight princess
also: next week the last wii u/3ds direct before nx is a thing, outlining the last software to expect for these systems. then it's time for the ninth generation as we'll need to know details at the end of march or april when they talk forecasts for the year ending 2017.
red/blue direct sequel (20th anniversary, duh)
gen vii
3ds reveal tomorrow, but will be on nx at launch and pushed more heavily as an nx launch title ala zelda wii u/nx and twlight princess
also: next week the last wii u/3ds direct before nx is a thing, outlining the last software to expect for these systems. then it's time for the ninth generation as we'll need to know details at the end of march or april when they talk forecasts for the year ending 2017.
I'd love love love a Pokemon game that has a higher difficulty. X/Y was just too easy and it's hard to keep an interest when the difficulty is rock bottom. Unfortunately this has always been an issue with Pokemon games.
It's either extremely easy for really really high level competitive online play.
It's either extremely easy for really really high level competitive online play.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah, by their logic the NES Contra stages 2 and 4 are 3d games
AniHawk pls
Linkstrikesback
Member
Feel free to show where I've said that ever whole youre strawmanning.
You have control over all 3 dimensions and the camera in 3d world(at least in single player). You largely don't in Pokémon, in the same way you don't in zelda:lbw but you do in zelda
ot.Pokémon is still way closer to a 2d game than a 3d one.
GhostTrick
Banned
That's semantics here. Doesnt change the fact that it plays like a 2D game and has the scale of one. I mean, I cant find any better comparison than ALBW and Majora's Mask on 3DS. Both are 3D games in the semantic sense, as they use polygon graphics. Heck, you could argue that Pokemon has been 3D since Diamond and Pearl.
Shuggananas
Banned
You have to differentiate 3D gameplay and 3D graphics
Super mario 3D world/land have both, pokémon X/Y/ORAS don't
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
wait, people seriously using "gameplay" to determine if something is 2D or 3D? why are people trying to spin this "self definition" thing in something that has been hard defined?
the fact that collisions work differently, from sprite vs polygon, regardless of how they are played, those are consistent
...why the fuck are we discussing this shit in Pokemon
the fact that collisions work differently, from sprite vs polygon, regardless of how they are played, those are consistent
...why the fuck are we discussing this shit in Pokemon
Benzychenz
Member
I mean yeah, it uses 3D models, in that sense X/Y are to Red/Blue what New Super Mario Bros is to Super Mario Bros, or A Link Between Worlds to A Link to the Past.
I'd rather be seeing the Pokemon series have its own Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time.
Being completely complacent with the series just seems really weird to me. Why wouldn't you want to see it pushed to something greater?
I'm having a hard time understanding this, are you saying that if you can't fly it's not a 3d game? :v
I understand that people might want a free camera and non grid tied movements, but those are not the elements that make a game 3d.
All of these arguments that boil down to 'This game isn't really X (whether it be a specific genre, a 3D game, or a game in general)' always come off as extremely ineffective to me. The tone becomes unnecessarily harsh and dismissive and it feels impossible to get to the root of an issue. There are better ways to argue than semantics.
Saying I wish Pokemon would stop being top down or I wish Game Freak didn't use a chibi art style in the overworld are much more interesting points to make and actually leave some room for discussion.
GhostTrick
Banned
Because a new Pokémon game is coming and it might see an upgrade as it may be a new Pokemon gen game ?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Because a new Pokémon game is coming and it might see an upgrade as it may be a new Pokemon gen game ?
it wouldn't really be an upgrade honestly, since the focus are battles and the mathematics behind them
GhostTrick
Banned
Pokemaniac
Member
Out of curiosity, do you condider Pokemon Colosseum and XD to be 3D. I'm just trying to get a better read on your position.
World traversal is a realatively minor mechanic in Pokemon. They could make it prettier, but there's no real reason for it to become much more complex than it currently is.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Can't believe I'm saying this but if Pokemon games, the main series the difficultly doesn't increase in not going to buy them as hard as it might be I'll probably cry
The main series is just way to easy even without megas and exp share
The main series is just way to easy even without megas and exp share
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Is it thought ? I think Pokemon is also about overworld and exploration
Yeah, but they are secondary. It's not like exploration would suffer if they didn't "upgrade" it.
Your tricks won't work on me Cecil, I know what you're trying to do!
Shuggananas
Banned
Pokémon stories were ALWAYS easy, you could always play the whole game with just your starter and HM slaves
Pokemon means different things to different people and that's one of the secret pieces that make it successful. I get really into breeding and raising, while others get super into the battles and some just want to see the world. What is the main focus depends on your POV.
Whether the exploration would really be upgraded by a 3rd person traditional camera is up for debate. It's not something I'd really look for. I could go either way on a non-chilbi art style, but I think that will lessen up as hardware strengthens and was mostly done for performance reasons and to ease the transition.
WiiRevolution1
Member
Wow at the 2D VS 3D argument lol.
Its a top down 2D game. Having small parts in a 3D view or it having 3D graphics doesn't make it a,3D game. ALBW damn sure isn't 3D either.
And thats fine. For Pokemon I prefer it being 2D by magnetons. Love that 2D overworld and hope it never changes!
I love the site but Serebii is way too agressive with the most insane things XD.
Its a top down 2D game. Having small parts in a 3D view or it having 3D graphics doesn't make it a,3D game. ALBW damn sure isn't 3D either.
And thats fine. For Pokemon I prefer it being 2D by magnetons. Love that 2D overworld and hope it never changes!
I love the site but Serebii is way too agressive with the most insane things XD.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah I know, I'm just pulling that post because my words can't be used against me. I have watched too many anime not to fall for that trick!
GhostTrick
Banned
These are a good start in the right direction has they have the correct scale. Even though it's still a top down view, it plays more like a 3D title.
Basically, compare ALBW and Majora's Mask 3D and you'll get my point.
It plays no differently to X & Y...
XYORAS aren't even restricted to tile movements anymore
Pokemaniac
Member
Yeah, I kinda figued you'd say that.
You do realize that the main difference between the Game Cube RPGs and the 3DS ones is art style, right?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
what the fuck is this thread
nintendo save us tomorrow pls
nintendo save us tomorrow pls
Benzychenz
Member
Did you guys even read the post you're replying to?
He said it was a good start in terms of scale, not 'yes'.
stan423321
Member
No, but just like NSMBU is a 2D game.
GhostTrick
Banned
I said its a good step in the sense that it has the correct scale.
Even though it plays more like has a 3D title, as its not created around tiles, its not yet one fully.
I would assume they're commenting on the "it play more like a 3D title" part of his post.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yes, more like. Not like one yet. The same way Pokemon X/Y is playing more like one than previous Pokemon titles, yet, still tied to 2D roots.
Pokemaniac
Member
Oh, I know he won't be fully satisfied without a non-top-down camera. It's just interesting that he talks of increased scale, when the biggest difference between the games is really just that the Game Cube games are more realistic. It seems that a large portion of his issues wirh Pokemon's graphics lie in the fact that the overworld is done in a "chibi" style.
Exterminieren
Banned
I am so thoroughly unconvinced that the presence of the sundial in XY means that this is going to be Gen 6.5. That's reaching a conclusion and scrabbling to find any evidence to fit it that you possibly can. I feel pretty damned certain you can go into any Pokémon game and find as many things that can be construed as references.
The really damning thing... What on Earth would the cover Legendaries be if this is a continuation of Gen VI with no new Pokémon? None of the Legendaries in Gen VI have any thematic or design connections to the Sun or Moon, or indeed to the colours or designs in the logo- Zygarde has four forms, none of which bare any resemblance or type similarity to anything signified by Sun and Moon, and Xerneas and Yveltal don't fit either- they're the Life and Death Pokémon, so the thematic connection isn't there, and their design and colouration don't have any resemblance to the logos either. We pretty much have to be new cover Pokémon, and I don't think we're talking about the same generation if we're looking at that scenario.
I do wonder if this is a sign that Game Freak's transitioning away from the generational format for future releases- introducing new Pokémon in more games, and not having to wait for years without significantly changing the game up.
The really damning thing... What on Earth would the cover Legendaries be if this is a continuation of Gen VI with no new Pokémon? None of the Legendaries in Gen VI have any thematic or design connections to the Sun or Moon, or indeed to the colours or designs in the logo- Zygarde has four forms, none of which bare any resemblance or type similarity to anything signified by Sun and Moon, and Xerneas and Yveltal don't fit either- they're the Life and Death Pokémon, so the thematic connection isn't there, and their design and colouration don't have any resemblance to the logos either. We pretty much have to be new cover Pokémon, and I don't think we're talking about the same generation if we're looking at that scenario.
I do wonder if this is a sign that Game Freak's transitioning away from the generational format for future releases- introducing new Pokémon in more games, and not having to wait for years without significantly changing the game up.
The generational format is baked into the connectivity of these games. The idea of 'mini-generations' does nothing but strand single game releases and kill connectivity. It also means GameFreak can't create huge excitement around a major launch. There's really zero reason to go that way.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'm just worried people have that mindset.
These people will tell you Final Fantasy VII-X aren't 3D games.
Benzychenz
Member
Well, yeah.
Look at basically any series that went from 2D to 3D, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Zelda etc.
In the sprite based 2D games, you could for instance, stand in the middle of a town and see pretty much the whole thing in the overhead view, but when transitioning to 3D, suddenly everything becomes a whole lot bigger and more elaborate.
Pokemon is still using the design choices of the sprite based games. It's using 3D models, but it isn't using 3D game design.
Look at it this way: in XY you stand in a town and every building faces the same direction so you can see the front door from the way the camera is positioned.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Pretty sure the feeling of FFVI is not "downsized" to FFVII's 3D. Also 7-10 had no camera control.
It does have different angles of camera in battles... like in Gen VI battles.
Oh yeah sprite games had camera control too. Limited, but they do exist.
It does have different angles of camera in battles... like in Gen VI battles.
Oh yeah sprite games had camera control too. Limited, but they do exist.
Eh, who cares if they do? It doesn't mean GF is suddenly going to go that way. You have random people demanding GF remake RBY for home consoles with fully 3D graphics and only the original 151. Doesn't mean that's gonna happen. People can want whatever they want.
Not for all
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ehh true enough I suppose.
on a slightly relevant note, my #TeamSun choice is vindicated because one of my favorite Rider represents the Sun
The Shadow Knight
Member
I'm leaning towards #TeamMoon just for the possibility of getting a female Delphox named "Cereza" for my playthrough if the games use XY starters.
That would be really fantastic.
Both Mario and Zelda had to drastically re-design their gameplay in order to work with their new, fully controllable cameras. "2D Zelda" is 3D these days, right, but there's still huge differences between ALBW and Wind Waker because their cameras force them to play differently, especially when it comes to combat.
But Pokemon is a turn-based RPG which launches you into a seperate screen for battles. There's no action gameplay there, so a drastic camera change wouldn't break anything. The only thing it would break is Gamefreak's graphic engine, because it would have to load longer draw distances. You could give Pokemon a Mario 64 camera but it'd have no reason to change its gamepay. It'd play just like, well, Pokemon X except with a rotational camera. It wouldn't be as big an event as you'd hope.
You think they are going to mention the next system in any way in the direct?
Primal Lugia/Ho-oh
I wish
Need to see the box legends first and see if there are any real gameplay changes like B/W had. I normally go with the Blue version in cases like this. For some reason, those legends tend to appeal to me more. Only exception is going with Y because I think Xerneas is pretty lame. I'll likely end up Moon given that pattern.
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