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[mugurumakensei]

I'm not trying to convert people as some kind of platform warrior - I'm trying to point out that there is literally a product for people who want a 2 year upgrade cycle that doesn't involve the completely un-console idea of a "superPS4".

It used to be that all you had to do to play a game was pop the disc in and call it a day. That idea of console gaming is dead.
It used to be that a console offered plug n play. Now, you have to wait for day 1 patches to finish then you can play.
It used to be that consoles were custom silicon purposed entirely for gaming.
Now, game consoles are mostly off the shelf parts with minor revisions to the silicon to meet a certain performance profile.
It used to be that gaming consoles would be better than mid-range cards at the time of launch. PS4 and especially XBox one were below mid-range at launch on their CPUs and could keep pace somewhat with mid-range GPUs.

There's no such thing as "un-console".

 

[False]

I feel like this will evolve to a point where there are simply "Playstation" and "Xbox" games. Without a suffix of any kind. Depending on the model you own the game runs better. Consoles more in line with how we (Americans at least) love to just gobble up the latest smart phone tech but also expect all of our apps to come with us. It will be two competing "ecosystems" rather than "consoles".

 

[Ape]

I'll be laughing so hard if the Xbox 1.5 is more powerful than the ps4.5

 

[Garrett Hawke]

It used to be that all you had to do to play a game was pop the disc in and call it a day. That idea of console gaming is dead.
It used to be that a console offered plug n play. Now, you have to wait for day 1 patches to finish then you can play.
It used to be that consoles were custom silicon purposed entirely for gaming.
Now, game consoles are mostly off the shelf parts with minor revisions to the silicon to meet a certain performance profile.
It used to be that gaming consoles would be better than mid-range cards at the time of launch. PS4 and especially XBox one were below mid-range at launch on their CPUs and could keep pace somewhat with mid-range GPUs.

There's no such thing as "un-console".

Yes, things like that change. The user experience changes. But do you know what all PlayStations have had in common up to this point? The same PlayStation you bought at the start of the gen would mostly perform the same as the PlayStation you buy at the end of the gen. That hasn't changed.

 

[orochi91]

I'm not trying to convert people as some kind of platform warrior - I'm trying to point out that there is literally a product for people who want a 2 year upgrade cycle that doesn't involve the completely un-console idea of a "superPS4".

There doesn't seem to be much demand for 2 year cycles in this thread. If anything, people who want that will naturally gravitate towards other gaming platforms that offer such frequent upgrades..

People invested in the PS ecosystem will not find much benefit to jumping wholesale into PC gaming though. Unless Sony pulls an MS and releases 1st party games, along with allowing PSN features (like friends list, trophies) on the PC platform. It's going to be difficult to convince folks to give up stuff like that, among numerous other factors.

 

[PikkonX]

An upgraded system may be true, but it's not going to run anything notable at 4K. Even if they are Sony and buying chips in bulk, there's no way they could deliver that device at a price average consumers will accept.

Right now, Sony comes across as the media darling. This would destroy all good will they've earned. Wait 2-3 more years and just call it the PS5.

 

[dose]

This also begs the question: HOW WILL ONLINE BE HANDLED???

One console can run the same game @60fps but the other can't go over 30... or can barely hold it? We've got a problem.

Good question, and that's what's great about MP games on consoles, EVERYONE is on a level playing field. As soon as you bring upgraded hardware into the equation, well... I know PC gamers have this issue, but would you want other players to have an advantage over you?

 

[ArchedThunder]

Yes, they would? The two architectures would still have their own quirks, much like how some PS3 models had trouble with certain games despite all PS3s sharing the same base spec.

What are you even talking about?

 

[David Ricardo]

So, if this is real, all games going forward are going to be cross gen.

There will be no incentive for developers to obtain great performance from PS4, because those who care about graphics have a PS4.5. And at the same time, PS4.5 games are going to be held back because they must also work for the PS4.

So it's worse for everyone because PS4 games won't be optimized for the hardware and PS4.5 games are going to be held back by the PS4. 3 years later, the same will happen. PS4.5 will hold back what can be done in PS5, while at the same time developers won't have a big incentive to optimize PS4.5 versions because people who care about graphics will have already bought the PS5.

And on and on it goes.

So, basically, console games are going to be unoptimized PC games, that are more expensive and with pay2play online. And we are going to keep buying consoles exactly why? For comfy couch gaming? Certainly not for the exclusives. If I want to play an adventure game, I can Play RotTR, if I want a racing game, I can play Forza/Horizon, No Man's Sky is there, Quantum Break is there, Final Fantasy is there, Gears is going to be there...

Who thought this was a great idea?

 

[Omnistalgic]

No that's not how it works. PC gaming has it's fair share of pitfalls that go largely unmentioned because people are too busy thumping on about better hardware. Failure rates, game-to-game compatibility, driver updates ANY time a new game launches, etc. are just the tip of the ice berg. The worst feeling, however, is buying a graphic card to have it obselete in the next year. (I bought a 280X with 3 GB of VRAM, and games out there are now requiring 4 GB for "recommended" performance, with some as high as 6 GB of VRAM)

Not to mention none of your friends on PSN are there.

Also, you forget PSN is a service spread across different devices. There’s a big trophy thread here. There’s a big community around PSN in general. You are in an ecosystem. Perhaps it’s not as all encompassing as something like Apple where you have a phone, a personal computer and tablet all from the same company, but it’s still meaningful, and it works on a psychological level IMO. I know I really don’t want to play other systems because I won’t earn trophies for completing those games, I like to play the bulk of my titles under the same profile, it’s my digital collection that I’ve been with for 10+ years now.

 

[gamz]

I'll be laughing so hard if the Xbox 1.5 is more powerful than the ps4.5

Until the 1.6 and 4.6.

 

[vivftp]

There's already an option for those who want more, and you can pay as much as you want to get as much performance as you like to boot.

Look at the games released on PS4 atm and how many of them have SIGNIFICANT bugs or performance problems already. Now imagine those same developers who barely have time to optimise for one platform suddenly have to optimise for two platforms, one of which is significantly more powerful than the other. Do you think they're going to spend time optimising the old PS4 as best they could or just drop the settings til it looks shitty but runs fine and call it a day?

You're making assumptions. I can make assumptions that say the opposite as well.

Most devs already have to factor in optimizing multiple platforms with PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo... how is this any different? If they fail to do a proper job supporting the less powerful hardware then they will experience backlash from the fans just like always. If Sony is also serious about going this route then they can also apply pressure to lazy developers who are dicking around with their plans, or more likely given their history offer to help them sort their shit out.

Anyways, I don't really see this being any different than a developer supporting PC, only it's far easier for them as they're still dealing with set platforms instead of the quadrillions of various configurations that PCs can take on.

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm assuming English might not be your first language, but I think you mean "moot" not mute.

Yea thanks. No English is my native language but I'm really beat and tired as hell Drinking Ciroc Vodka on the rocks with believe it or not surge.

Had to help configure a server today for our Newsroom that talks to our Scripting program, and it uses pretty much a powershell type interface.

Not fun, especially since if something happens you have to reconnect through the portal through commands, there is no Remote desktop application.

Anyway back on topic, thanks for catching it.

Much Respect.

 

[Qvoth]

sounds like a terrible idea

 

[Garrett Hawke]

What are you even talking about?

You said they wouldn't have to optimise for two platforms - I said they would and then provided proof of why they would?

There doesn't seem to be much demand for 2 year cycles in this thread. If anything, people who want that will naturally gravitate towards other gaming platforms that offer such frequent upgrades..

People invested in the PS ecosystem will not find much benefit to jumping wholesale into PC gaming though. Unless Sony pulls an MS and releases 1st party games, along with allowing PSN features (like friends list) on the PC platform. It's going to be difficult to convince folks to give up stuff like that, among numerous other factors.

Then they can just stick with the PS4 and play the curated first party content which already generally runs with good performance and resolution, because of the benefits of working with fixed hardware (something that disappears if you add tiers into it).

You're making assumptions. I can make assumptions that say the opposite as well.

Most devs already have to factor in optimizing multiple platforms with PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo... how is this any different? If they fail to do a proper job supporting the less powerful hardware then they will experience backlash from the fans just like always. If Sony is also serious about going this route then they can also apply pressure to lazy developers who are dicking around with their plans, or more likely given their history offer to help them sort their shit out.

Anyways, I don't really see this being any different than a developer supporting PC, only it's far easier for them as they're still dealing with set platforms instead of the quadrillions of various configurations that PCs can take on.

Ah yes, Sony can apply pressure to devs - just like how all those PS+ titles that came out recently had acceptable performance on PS4. You know, since they were featured heavily as part of Sony's advertorial line-up and they were important to Sony. Why would Sony all of a sudden have standards about acceptable performance, particularly on an "older" platform?

 

[mugurumakensei]

Good question, and that's what's great about MP games on consoles, EVERYONE is on a level playing field. As soon as you bring upgraded hardware into the equation, well... I know PC gamers have this issue, but would you want other players to have an advantage over you?

Everyone is not on a level playing field. The biggest source of latency in MP gaming is not tied to framerate. It's network latency. Well, that's variable based on ISP, physical location of both the person playing and the MP server, etc.

 

[Omnistalgic]

So, if this is real, all games going forward are going to be cross gen.

There will be no incentive for developers to obtain great performance from PS4, because those who care about graphics have a PS4.5. And at the same time, PS4.5 games are going to be held back because they must also work for the PS4.

So it's worse for everyone because PS4 games won't be optimized for the hardware and PS4.5 games are going to be held back by the PS4. 3 years later, the same will happen. PS4.5 will hold back what can be done in PS5, while at the same time developers won't have a big incentive to optimize PS4.5 versions because people who care about graphics will have already bought the PS5.

And on and on it goes.

So, basically, console games are going to be unoptimized PC games, that are more expensive and with pay2play online. And we are going to keep buying consoles exactly why? For comfy couch gaming? Certainly not for the exclusives. If I want to play an adventure game, I can Play RotTR, if I want a racing game, I can play Forza/Horizon, No Man's Sky is there, Quantum Break is there, Final Fantasy is there, Gears is going to be there...

Who thought this was a great idea?

You are jumping to a bunch of ridiculous worse-case scenario conclusions. Why are you expecting the absolute worse scenario to come about with this?

Not saying I’m on board, but I don’t have any desire to upgrade in the next two years, nothing (outside of a $100 trade-up) would make me change that stance, and I’m skeptical. But this is going to turn console gaming into “crap” mentality, yeah, I just don’t get it.

 

[ArchedThunder]

You said they wouldn't have to optimise for two platforms - I said they would and then provided proof of why they would?

No, the thing about PS3 games running differently on different PS3.

 

[icespide]

They wouldn't have to optimize for two platforms.

you really think they would just develop the game and never even look into how it runs on the other machine?

 

[ArtHands]

Its a PS4 and a PS3 duct-taped together?

 

[ArchedThunder]

you really think they would just develop the game and never even look into how it runs on the other machine?

The other machine wouldn't be a completely different system, it wouldn't be the same as optimizing for two different platforms.
Sony will almost definitely also have tools in place to make it painless as well.

 

[Astral Dog]

It used to be that all you had to do to play a game was pop the disc in and call it a day. That idea of console gaming is dead.
It used to be that a console offered plug n play. Now, you have to wait for day 1 patches to finish then you can play.
It used to be that consoles were custom silicon purposed entirely for gaming.
Now, game consoles are mostly off the shelf parts with minor revisions to the silicon to meet a certain performance profile.
It used to be that gaming consoles would be better than mid-range cards at the time of launch. PS4 and especially XBox one were below mid-range at launch on their CPUs and could keep pace somewhat with mid-range GPUs.

There's no such thing as "un-console".

:,(

 

[icespide]

The other machine wouldn't be a completely different system, it wouldn't be the same as optimizing for two different platforms.
Sony will almost definitely also have tools in place to make it painless.

I understand it wouldn't be a ton of work necessarily but they are still going to need to optimize it and test it for each sku that they support

 

[Garrett Hawke]

No, the thing about PS3 games running differently on different PS3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64746611&postcount=1

Affected both TLOU and UC3 on fat/launch PS3 units.

 

[SgtCobra]

Its a PS4 and a PS3 duct-taped together?

2 PS4's and a GameCube.

 

[dcx4610]

PS4k

4k Resolution
4k UHD Blu-ray Drive
Built-in power of breakout box for VR

$400

Yes please.

 

[Zoetis]

sounds like a terrible idea

why ?

 

[orochi91]

Then they can just stick with the PS4 and play the curated first party content which already generally runs with good performance and resolution, because of the benefits of working with fixed hardware (something that disappears if you add tiers into it).

Agreed.

How does this sound:

1 console refresh every 3-4 years, with the condition that the vanilla launch model receives continuous support, until the next gen hardware is released. For example: PS4---->PS4.5 (3-4 years after vanilla launch) ------->PS5 (3-4 years after PS4.5 launch).

That way, it won't be aping the rapid increments seen in mobile devices, yet still remains relatively up-to-date with regards to hardware. The key will be backwards and forward compatibility, which will be possibly given the x86 architecture.

 

[potatohead]

Get out of here with this sound logic and reasoning. It has no place here.

But mooooooooooooommmmmmmm I want my 4keeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

 

[Outtrigger888]

I'll probably drop one of the platforms going forward if this is a trend. I'll go with Sony and Nintendo.

 

[vivftp]

Ah yes, Sony can apply pressure to devs - just like how all those PS+ titles that came out recently had acceptable performance on PS4. You know, since they were featured heavily as part of Sony's advertorial line-up and they were important to Sony. Why would Sony all of a sudden have standards about acceptable performance, particularly on an "older" platform?

Yes, because what happens in the past = what happens in the future... right? Nothing ever changes and everything will always remain the same, right?

 

[KingBroly]

I understand it wouldn't be a ton of work necessarily but they are still going to need to optimize it and test it for each sku that they support

At some point, developers are going to bump up to those upgraded specs and leave lower end SKUs behind.

 

[Crayon]

MS tried to screw us by leaving the console market but good guy sony is making ps4.5 so there's still competition for ps4.

 

[orochi91]

why ?

Got anymore hints to share?

:3

 

[Javin98]

Just posting my thoughts on this from another thread.

If the PS4.5 is only an incremental upgrade that runs PS4 games in 4K or 1080/60, I'm totally cool with that actually. Hopefully, Sony doesn't make the same mistake as Nintendo and make it mandatory for devs to release every game on the OG PS4 as well.

However, I'm wondering what kind of GPU upgrade we will be seeing. Based on The Division DF thread yesterday, you would need something close to a GTX 970 to run it at 1080/60 at around PS4 settings.

why ?

*puts knife to throat* Spit it out!

 

[Papacheeks]

WCCFtech:




http://wccftech.com/sony-making-4k-gaming-playstation-4/

Most sense I'v read on peoples posts in this thread. If you think it's going to be smaller or same PS4 size think again.

More powerful gpu=more heat bigger cooler, possibly more ram chips=more heat, bigger cpu or higher clock frequency like 2.0 or higher=more heat.

People are fooling themselves if you think running 4k isn't producing heat. Thought your PS4 sounded loud before get ready for a leaf blower when it's running a game or rendering 4k video from game-play recording.

 

[icespide]

At some point, developers are going to bump up to those upgraded specs and leave lower end SKUs behind.

and then the PS4.75 will be out by then and we're in the same situation.

 

[Zeth]

There must be some major details left out here. 4K output capability with new HDMI spec maybe?

There will be no 4K rendering resolution AAA games on a new Playstation box for 399 this year. How could that even work?

 

[dose]

you really think they would just develop the game and never even look into how it runs on the other machine?

Do you really think the likes of Ubisoft and Telltale are going to spend precious dev/QA time ensuring a game runs at its best throughout the whole game on all models?

 

[ArchedThunder]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64746611&postcount=1

Affected both TLOU and UC3 on fat/launch PS3 units.

I see a lot of people saying they didn't encounter issues as well as people with slims saying it crashes. Sounds like it's just that TLOU has crashing issues in general.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Yes, because what happens in the past = what happens in the future... right? Nothing ever changes and everything will always remain the same, right?

So you're just going to trust them on that? Like how they promised they weren't going to abandon the Vita and then confirmed that there were no more first party titles in production?

Agreed.

How does this sound:

1 console refresh every 3-4 years, with the condition that the vanilla launch model receives continuous support, until the next gen hardware is released. For example: PS4---->PS4.5 (3-4 years after vanilla launch) ------->PS5 (3-4 years after PS4.5 launch).

That way, it won't be aping the rapid increments seen in mobile devices, yet still remains relatively up-to-date with regards to hardware. The key will be backwards and forward compatibility, which will be possibly given the x86 architecture.

If they HAD to do something that sounds like the least worst possible outcome, but it still seems unnecessary. I would much rather have a gen that last 5-6 years and then a significant jump than a gen that last 8 years but has a pseudo jump in the middle.

I see a lot of people saying they didn't encounter issues as well as people with slims saying it crashes. Sounds like it's just that TLOU has crashing issues in general.

It affected Uncharted 3 significantly as well. I tried to find a news source on it but could only find forum posts. It's not a co-incidence that both games had issues solely on fat PS3s.

 

[Vex_]

Good question, and that's what's great about MP games on consoles, EVERYONE is on a level playing field. As soon as you bring upgraded hardware into the equation, well... I know PC gamers have this issue, but would you want other players to have an advantage over you?

Exactly. Consoles have always had the advantage of all hardware being the same in competitive play.

Everyone is not on a level playing field. The biggest source of latency in MP gaming is not tied to framerate. It's network latency. Well, that's variable based on ISP, physical location of both the person playing and the MP server, etc.

Right. So we're adding another variable on top of potential network latency aren't we? Great.

 

[icespide]

Do you really think the likes of Ubisoft and Telltale are going to spend precious dev/QA time ensuring a game runs at its best throughout the whole game on all models?

no and it's going to suck but they will at least test it at a bare minimum

 

[Papacheeks]

At some point, developers are going to bump up to those upgraded specs and leave lower end SKUs behind.

BINGO!

It takes ones dev to propose this to Sony if they have some mandate in place to always target PS4.

And with someone like Naughty Dog or something I see it happening and if that happens , Oh boy

 

[DangerMouse]

I was rude though. I apologize. I'm a bit more aggressive in this thread than I normally am. Some of the things I'm seeing being posted are making me ornery. Definitely no excuse for my tone though.

Cool. Accepted.
As you could see, that wasn't what I was saying.

 

[Teppic]

This sucks. I don't want to spend money to upgrade my consoles every few years. Makes me wonder if getting a PS5 will even be worth it.

 

[ArchedThunder]

At some point, developers are going to bump up to those upgraded specs and leave lower end SKUs behind.

And that will be like jumping generations. If each version is supported for 6 or more years it had a normal console life anyways.

 

[MonkeyMan29]

Only way I jump in, is if there is an extremely discounted, or subsidized discount plan, otherwise, I'm good.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I'm Ok with this. I can hand my PS4 down to a sibling and upgrade.

 

[icespide]

how do I explain buying a new PS4 to my wife?