thecosmicfly
Banned
You just know that if that was Walt instead of Jimmy he would've left Chuck on the ground to bleed rather than rush in to help. Fuck Walt.
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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Monocle
Member
Kind of reminds me of this wretched harpy I saw in this one other show that's a bit like BCS. She drove her doting husband to a life of crime and wouldn't let up no matter how much he sacrificed to provide for his ungrateful family. What was her name again? Tyler? Sylar? Mylar?
Maybe not. Walt
gave up his entire fortune to try and save Hank when the two of them were previously trying to fuck each other over, just like Jimmy and Chuck. And I don't think Walt felt nothing from his death.
Dick Justice
Banned
I don't get anyone who's sceptical about the note being from Gus. It's pretty fucking blatant.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
So he goes to work for Gus instead.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
killertofu
Member
My dad loves this show... and still hasn't watched Breaking Bad.
Which is baffling and extremely interesting to me.
Which is baffling and extremely interesting to me.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Really enjoyed the finale and i am very very sad that it's already over. This is one of those shows that I would love to have more episodes from.
By the way, do we already know if we're going to have to wait a full year for S3 or will it be later this year? Which S2 was initially planned for as well last year.
I have to respect Jimmy for telling the truth in the end and solely to make Chuck feel better about himself, but damn...that audio recorder. When we saw Chuck going into the garage and later on him changing his whole living room, i thought he had went there for all that foil. But it sure turned out to be something else. Also Chuck in the intro of this episode not telling what their mom's last words were was quite telling.
I'm more on team Jimmy now, because i can understand his reasons for the whole. Mesa Verde thing. And i like how he keeps taking care of Chuck and he could have denied all this and let Chuck believe what he said about himself, but he didn't.
I'm more on team Jimmy now, because i can understand his reasons for the whole. Mesa Verde thing. And i like how he keeps taking care of Chuck and he could have denied all this and let Chuck believe what he said about himself, but he didn't.
By the way, do we already know if we're going to have to wait a full year for S3 or will it be later this year? Which S2 was initially planned for as well last year.
gutter_trash
Banned
thecosmicfly
Banned
True, but
that was certainly a more clean cut situation of Walt simply having no way to worm his way out on his terms, so there's at least some humanity coming from Walt in that moment. But so long as there's some kind of grey area being rationalised in Walt's mind and an opportunity to act on it I feel Walt would take it, all in the name of family, even when putting said family in much clearer danger. Heck, remember the time Walt decided to just straight up crash the Aztec into incoming traffic with the two of them in it?
Which means the show runners did an excellent job making this show stand on its own.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I knew that Chuck was baiting Jimmy into a recorded confession the very second he claimed that electricity was frying his brain. Chuck is far too proud to consider the possibility of making a mistake.
No; Mike said he was done with Hector last week, and he meant it. He stole $250,000 from them, and was content to leave it at that. But then he learned that Hector killed an innocent person (the person that found the truck driver bound and gagged). Now Mike wants to avenge that person, and alleviate some of the guilt he feels for that person's death, as he's indirectly responsible.
That note was obviously left by somebody working for Gus. Gus likely has spies watching the cartel constantly, and they must have seen Mike. They tailed Mike to the desert, saw what he was up to, and upon reporting it to Gus were told them to stop Mike. Gus doesn't want to be robbed of his revenge (Hector personally killed Gus' friend/lover). Next season, we'll see Gus bring Mike on board and both of them conspiring against Hector (which eventually ends up putting Hector in a wheelchair).
He needs to get on it, because I think next season is going to be so much more enjoyable if you know how Breaking Bad plays out.
No; Mike said he was done with Hector last week, and he meant it. He stole $250,000 from them, and was content to leave it at that. But then he learned that Hector killed an innocent person (the person that found the truck driver bound and gagged). Now Mike wants to avenge that person, and alleviate some of the guilt he feels for that person's death, as he's indirectly responsible.
That note was obviously left by somebody working for Gus. Gus likely has spies watching the cartel constantly, and they must have seen Mike. They tailed Mike to the desert, saw what he was up to, and upon reporting it to Gus were told them to stop Mike. Gus doesn't want to be robbed of his revenge (Hector personally killed Gus' friend/lover). Next season, we'll see Gus bring Mike on board and both of them conspiring against Hector (which eventually ends up putting Hector in a wheelchair).
He needs to get on it, because I think next season is going to be so much more enjoyable if you know how Breaking Bad plays out.
SneakySneaks
Member
Does he know of what becomes of Jimmy and Mike? Because if he has no idea of their actions in Breaking Bad (or if Mike is even in it). This show must have some amazing tension for him, it's tense for most of us and we know these two will be (mostly) fine.
RecRoulette
Member
I feel for Chuck. Jimmy is this well-meaning tornado that messes up the lives around him with maxed out charisma so no one ever hates him. He witnesses the destruction Jimmy causes but no one seems to care. Everyone's like "Oh that Jimmy." That moment when Ernie stands up for him in the hospital, Chuck's just seeing the same old thing happen once again.
Chuck's technically not wrong, he's just a complete asshole about it. I'm going to laugh if Chuck getting electrocuted is what caused his condition, because in my mind Chuck is this guy.
Chuck's technically not wrong, he's just a complete asshole about it. I'm going to laugh if Chuck getting electrocuted is what caused his condition, because in my mind Chuck is this guy.
killertofu
Member
Yeah, definitely. I haven't watched most of the second season (no cable) but the episodes I have watched are pretty damn good. Chuck
cracking his head on the counter
But I'm assuming from this thread that it hasn't reached the same ratings as BB?
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
By the way, that note on Mike's car.....
Couldn't possibly have been Nacho's doing?
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Sure. If he developed Flash like powers.
Excellent post. Fully agree.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
in my mind Chuck is this guy.
Haha, that's actually an apt comparison.
He's also:I feel for Chuck. Jimmy is this well-meaning tornado that messes up the lives around him with maxed out charisma so no one ever hates him. He witnesses the destruction Jimmy causes but no one seems to care. Everyone's like "Oh that Jimmy." That moment when Ernie stands up for him in the hospital, Chuck's just seeing the same old thing happen once again.
Chuck's technically not wrong, he's just a complete asshole about it. I'm going to laugh if Chuck getting electrocuted is what caused his condition, because in my mind Chuck is this guy.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
His thesis is ridiculous and assumes people are incapable of distinguishing fiction and real-life.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
We live in a world where Anna Gunn received death threats because people hated Skyler so much. Though that might be the extreme, people most certainly do blur the line between fiction and reality when watching a show they like; that's why we care about these characters to begin with.
Chuck might be a jerk and the character we sympathise with least when pitted against Jimmy, but he's not a robot who was just programmed to be an ass; he's the product of his life experiences, some of which are tragic, and could mould some bad personality traits.
It's not a matter of one character being right and the other being wrong. It's which one is "less wrong", and in which ways. Looking at characters in a black and white view does a huge disservice to how well-written they are. Chuck has conspired against Jimmy, but Jimmy conspired against him. And Jimmy did indeed commit a felony. This show would be nowhere near as interesting if Chuck was 100% in the wrong.
And your reading comprehension is as astute as Kaylee's understanding of law practice. I made specific, concentrated distinctions between reality and fiction and my thesis was that the belittlement of somebody for feeling anguish over the death of their mother is a really fucking piece of shit thing to do on a conceptual level, with it's target being irrelevant to it's inherent awfulness as an action. Please, explain how that plays into your definition of ridiculous. By all means, defend mocking the bereavement of people as a concept. The mental gymnastics on this one is going to be olympic level.
layzie1989
Member
This episode forced you to have radically opposing emotions for chuck, from the hospital scene to the recorder scene. Love this show.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Does anybody believe Chuck is going to turn that tape into the police? I really doubt even Chuck would be willing to send his brother to prison. I bet he'll use it to coerce Jimmy into quitting law (which Jimmy will eventually get around by using the Saul persona).
How do we know Kaylee isn't some sort of law super savant? Just saying.
I'm so fucking tense and angry right now. So many questions for the next season.
God damn it.
Did you just call Mike a secondary character?
God damn it.
Did you just call Mike a secondary character?
Chuck crossed the line of being slipperier than Slippin' Jimmy, so there's no telling how low he'll go from here.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Because Chuck is a character that relies on suspension of disbelief -- how people react to him is no different to how a wrestling fan reacts to a heel wrestling character. He is literally written to elicit a negative response.
Hence, your whole proposition of ban-worthy reaction on GAF if Chuck's circumstance were real life is totally off the planet.
And I am even bothering to delve into the psychological aspects of sympathizing with a character on TV vis-a-vis real life because I am scared you are going to bludgeon me to death with verbiage.
Brainfreeze
Member
Quite the opposite, I think. People are trying to treat this as schlock when it's better than that. This isn't like walking dead, where everything is a force of nature and half the fun comes from hating the villain and wanting to see him die. At least, I don't think that's the intention. We aren't supposed to want Chuck dead.
These characters are very well written, very relateable, very realistic, and we should treat them as such. It's how the show is meant to be watched.
The point wasn't "You assholes have no sympathy in real life if you're willing to insult Chuck for his mother's death," but "I know you have sympathy in real life, try and apply that to the show as well. Chuck is more complex than you're giving him credit for." And I think he's right.
It's not even like a Skylar situation, where she's annoying because, despite adding realism to the show, she got in the way of the main conflict (at least early on). Here, Chuck IS the main conflict. His dynamic with Jimmy is the heart of the show.
To me, it's tragic because I wish they could reconcile, but things keep getting worse and worse and we know by the time Breaking Bad roles around these two aren't exactly close anymore.
I think the show is more enjoyable when viewed this way. I can relate to both Jimmy and Chuck in different ways. That's what I'd personally like to discuss. #FuckChuck is funny and appropriate at times, but I'd agree that it's annoying when it becomes the main point of discussion. I hope for better than Reddit here.
Obviously you can watch and interpret and discuss the show however you'd like, that's just how I feel.
Maybe not the police, but he'll certainly use this to get Jimmy McGill disbarred. Maybe this is how we get Saul.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I actually wonder if Vince planned on having such an emphasis on Mike from the start. The stakes for Mike are so much higher, and ties into Breaking Bad so much (especially given what I expect to happen next season, which I explained in an above post).
Jimmy might be getting more screen time, but I feel like Mike's story is the one that matter most. But I'm please we're getting both.
I doubt you could circumvent a disbarring by simply changing your name. Certainly not if you continued to practice law in the same state.
RecRoulette
Member
I don't think Chuck would stoop to blackmailing him. This is going to court baby.
I'm in the same situation. I will say that this season has motivated me to go watch and finish Breaking Bad hopefully before the next season starts.
Things that I have been thinking about in regards to that ending:
As I said, Ernesto's comment about liking Jimmy and how Chuck was out to get him almost perfectly sums up their relationship. Everyone likes Jimmy, even though he is almost constantly working a con, and Chuck knows this but no one believes him. Now he has proof.
Chuck has been correct, really, about everything Jimmy has done. From the beginning of the season when he questioned whether Jimmy was soliciting clients all the way to every detail of the complicated plot to get Mesa Verde back to Kim.
At the beginning of the season Jimmy angrily beseeches his older brother to "roll around in the dirt" with him and not only has he gotten that wish, he has been bested pretty consistently thus far.
I don't think this ends with Jimmy going to jail, I think it's held by Chuck as a threat, forcing him out of the law (at least, under his own name.) Chuck was very specific in getting the info he wanted: Is this the truth? Yes. Why did you do it? For Kim (implicating her which adds even more leverage to the threat). Did you know it was a felony? Yes.
Not a lot to say regarding the Mike side of things. Not that they weren't great (I loved every minute) but not much open to interpretation besides the author of "DON'T"
As I said, Ernesto's comment about liking Jimmy and how Chuck was out to get him almost perfectly sums up their relationship. Everyone likes Jimmy, even though he is almost constantly working a con, and Chuck knows this but no one believes him. Now he has proof.
Chuck has been correct, really, about everything Jimmy has done. From the beginning of the season when he questioned whether Jimmy was soliciting clients all the way to every detail of the complicated plot to get Mesa Verde back to Kim.
At the beginning of the season Jimmy angrily beseeches his older brother to "roll around in the dirt" with him and not only has he gotten that wish, he has been bested pretty consistently thus far.
I don't think this ends with Jimmy going to jail, I think it's held by Chuck as a threat, forcing him out of the law (at least, under his own name.) Chuck was very specific in getting the info he wanted: Is this the truth? Yes. Why did you do it? For Kim (implicating her which adds even more leverage to the threat). Did you know it was a felony? Yes.
Not a lot to say regarding the Mike side of things. Not that they weren't great (I loved every minute) but not much open to interpretation besides the author of "DON'T"
I think these writers are above bringing back important characters just to have them do mundane things like working in a booth in the background. They wouldn't just have Jesse walk past in the background of a shot or something. I suspect they always had big plans for Mike, but maybe they expected his story to be more interwoven with Jimmy's.
I just can't see Chuck ever being honest about his intentions to make Jimmy quit the law.
No need. My retort is very simple: you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what my thesis is. And Brainfreeze over the next post explains it far better. (Thanks, Brainfreeze). I find your assertion that the writing here is equivalent to a wrestling match (with no respect meant to fans of wrestling) to be quite laughable. Interviews with Vince make it clear that he writes as a way of following the characters where it is most natural for them to go and has stated that multiple times. That kind of methodology doesn't take into account what the audience reaction will be, it's 'What would this character in this situation with this history, personality, and temperment, do'. Of course, that's a hard and fast rule, not an absolute, and most writers take into account how the audience will react to SOME extent, but given that's how Vince talks about his writing, I see no reason to disbelieve him when he says he rights for the characters, not the audience. Skyler probably would have been written very differently if he kept bending over backwards to try and get the audience to accept her, instead of simply following her character to what he felt was her natural conclusion. That the writing elicits an audience reaction doesn't mean it's purpose is to elicit an audience reaction. The design here is to explore the character as a complex human being, not a emotional reflex generator.
But fine, lets follow your proposition through to the end. I stated my thesis in the previous post and I'll restate it here: the belittlement of somebody for feeling anguish over the death of their mother is a really fucking piece of shit thing to do on a conceptual level. That is your challenge, if you're trying to claim that you understood my writing correctly. Okay, so Chuck is meant to elicit a negative response, therefore it is acceptable to belittle him over his despair of his dying mother? Is that your argument here?
From a medical perspective, I think Chuck's temporary guardianship may be key here. In granting the temporary guardianship to Jimmy, it's possible that Chuck's actions during the time of the recording may not be admissible if he was determined to not be legally competent as a result of his inability to make medical decisions. Normally there is a huge distinction between medical capacity and legal competence when granting guardianships. This issue is very nuanced and varies by state and county. It is also one of the pillars of Elder Law, which Jimmy has displayed great understanding.
How much detail will be paid to the legal implications of guardianship and competence (whether it was global or specific to medical decisions) may be the key to resolving the storyline so that Jimmy's credibility takes the biggest hit.
How much detail will be paid to the legal implications of guardianship and competence (whether it was global or specific to medical decisions) may be the key to resolving the storyline so that Jimmy's credibility takes the biggest hit.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
I'm gonna let you into big secret that's gonna blow your mind: Vince Gilligan's characters are borderline caricatures (hence my comparison to professional wrestling).
They are belittling Chuck for exhibiting an irrational amount of jealously towards Jimmy, not for mourning his mother's death. Evidently both his parents favored Jimmy more, even though he was a fuck-up. If you can't see that I'm wasting my time responding to you.
Well, then, wrestling has apparently some of the most nuanced, humanistic writing in fiction. Shit, I had no idea what the hell I was missing out on, I'll get into wrestling right away.
No, Vince's characters may be pretty out there in the sense that they accomplish big things with strong personalities, but I've met people who I'd believe were fictional if not for the fact that I see them in life. I had a roommate who I can only describe as a Tony Stark that happens to not be interested in inventing machines, I'm personal friends with a guy who excels at so much, I'd almost call him a mary sue, I've met a guy who was so desperate for friends that he reconciled with people who shit in his bong because he asked them not to make fun of him so much over their league of legends games, and I've met a girl who I can only call a female Sherlock holmes, and a girl who is a disney princess in personality. Maybe I'm unusual and just have met very interesting people in my life, but people who have big, almost unbelievable personalities...they exist. They're real.
But don't take my word for it. Look up Jenny Lawson's books where she talks about her life and try to wrap your head around that she is a real person and not a very well written comedy skit. Look up the stories about Alan Moore. Theodore Roosevelt was fucking RIDICULOUS. Arnold Schwarzenegger is a body builder turned actor turned politician. What is Donald fucking Trump if not the craziest, most unbelievable presidential candidate that you'd laugh off in a cartoon for being too unrealistic? You don't have to look far to find surreal, incredible people, they make their mark on the world all the damn time.
So yeah. Vince Gilligan writes nearly unbelievable people, I'll give you that. But they key word here is 'nearly'. Because when it's all said and done, they feel very believable.
And while I've met some pretty extraordinary people, I can't say I've ever met someone who had a healthy relationship with their parents, but was apathetic to the idea that they weren't as loved as their sibling. I wouldn't call being upset about that irrational at all. That is a shitty thing for anyone to feel, though it's unclear if that's truly the case (obviously chuck feels it's so, but his mother could have said his name for any number of reasons. She was dying and delirious).
And yes, that's exactly what he's mocking. His mother died, implying she cared about Jimmy more than him even though he's the one whose obviously more upset at her passing, and he's taking it personally. There's no way to seperate "Haha, what a tool for feeling resentful toward jimmy just because his mom didn't acknowledge him on her death bed" and mocking him for his grief. The entire state of grief involves being in a vulnerable emotional state. Saying he's a tool for taking what she said personally is literally waving away his entire emotional condition and mocking him for that is literally exactly what I've been getting at this whole time: people are refusing to empathize and understand his position out of a hatred for the character.
First Kim now Ernesto.. That was cool the first time but now its like how lucky can you get.
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