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Politico: Sanders campaign begins laying off staff

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nib95

Banned
Go on. Elaborate on what you intend to revolt against in detail. And the alternative practical implementable solutions you propose.

When people say they want a revolution, they usually mean a massive forced change, because they don't feel the current system is fair or just, which looking at things like rampant institutional racism, mass disproportionate incarceration, political corruption, financial fraud and corruption, the military industrial complex stranglehold etc etc, one could sympathise with.

That doesn't however mean the person who wants drastic change, even in the way of a revolution, has all the answers himself, or intends to run as president or anything like that. Simply having the notion that things need to be much, much better or different than they currently are or ever could be (any time soon) under the current system, doesn't mean they're going to have a specific breakdown of solutions to solve every one of these problems, just like even a president, prime minister etc doesn't or won't on his own. You'd always needs experts in the field to come up with those sorts of solutions, sifting through countless proposals, changes, advise etc till you arrived at something fairer and better. So asking him for a list of practical implementable solutions is to me, an unfair ask. He could give vague answers that probably wouldn't impress you, sure, but I doubt he, like any single one of us on this forum or any where else, is knowledgeable enough to give a list of precise and detailed solutions to each of the complex issues mentioned.
 

Psydonk

Member
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.
 
The general feels of someone are generally of no interest to me.

I'd settle for vague workable proposals, given the specific user's penchant for saying things authoritatively without even a rudimentary understanding of the systems of which he's critiquing.
 

Hindl

Member
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

No one needs to look back and wonder. It's plainly obvious why he didn't win:

This is what I hope people take away from this election

Bernie didn't lose because of election fraud

Bernie didn't lose because of low information voters

Bernie didn't lose because the establishment conspired against him specifically to keep "the revolutionary" down

Bernie lost because Hillary bothered to build actual coalitions with different groups

Bernie lost because he seems to have very little interest in politicking and forming alliances, and it turns out the way you get things done in this country is by working with people

Bernie lost because, frankly, he's just an okay candidate for president, and over the course of his campaign he failed to convince people he was an outstanding one.

Hillary isn't winning because she's married to Bill, she's winning because more people think she should be president. Full stop. It doesn't matter how many polls you unskew or how many unfair practices (that somehow only benefit Hillary, never Bernie) you find, no matter how you fix the math she got more votes
 

studyguy

Member
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

Nah
If she was anyone other than the next potential candidate for president, then whole email fiasco would have never come to light.
 
And what benefits are brought to the table by Bernie staying in the race?

If Bernie keeps up his character attacks, the only person who benefits at this point is Trump.

"Bernie Sanders has a message that's interesting. I'm going to be taking a lot of things Bernie said and using them,"
"He said some things about her that are actually surprising. That essentially she has no right to even be running. She's got bad judgment," Trump said, in reference to Sanders' comment earlier this month where said that while Clinton may be experienced enough to be president, "in terms of her judgment, something is clearly lacking."
"When he said bad judgment, I said sound bite,"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...04/trump-using-bernie-sanders-material-222520

The people of Palestine, Yemen, and Pakistan are probably really happy that the US Democratic people chose to go with Hilary Clinton.

As opposed to a man who for a long time had a foreign policy that mostly consisted of "I didn't vote for Iraq" and getting people who are sworn enemies to join forces together. Combined with the fact that he never really seemed interested in getting educated on the matter or surrounding himself with foreign policy advisors who might know about the subject.

Yep, totally doesn't sound like a disaster in the making.
 

nib95

Banned
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

I am extremely confident this will be the case. A lot of Europeans I'd imagine are already thinking this.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

After Bush, Blair, Cheyney, and so many other heads of intelligence, policy etc with the Iraq war, very doubtful.
 

Psydonk

Member
No one needs to look back and wonder. It's plainly obvious why he didn't win:

I was talking more in a way like "people will look back and wonder why we did nothing about climate change"

The fact people think Hillary is what America needs is mind boggling. Even the most hardcore of hardcore Feminists I know can't stand her.
 

danm999

Member
A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

That's backwards. The fact that Condi Rice and Colin Powell did the same and nobody gives a shit demonstrates that if it were anyone BUT HRC it wouldn't be an issue.
 

Miles X

Member
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

No she wouldn't, you're drinking the kool aid, don't be insane now.
 

Psydonk

Member
Nah
If she was anyone other than the next potential candidate for president, then whole email fiasco would have never come to light.

No way.

If you take emails off a secure server, you are going to Prison, as SWIM can tell you, they take shit seriously. SWIM wasn't even allowed a cell phone inside the building at SWIM former employment.

The only reason she is not in prison is because she is Hillary Clinton.
 

digdug2k

Member
The USA and its two party system is so damn stupid.
Its not a two party system. It a system where the anarchists, the racists, and the religious-right seem more willing to band together and form a coalition than people-who-were-in-favor-of-gay-marriage-in-2010 are willing to form a coalition with people-who-were-in-favor-of-gay-marriage-in-2013.
 
I am extremely confident this will be the case. A lot of Europeans I'd imagine are already thinking this.

The reasons he lost are plentiful and obvious.

The office of the presidency is not some omnipotent all powerful office. He needed to make alliances and support down ticket and he didn't. Even if by some miracle in an alternate universe he won, he wouldn't accomplish anything because he wouldn't have the power to do so.
 

Hindl

Member
I was talking more in a way like "people will look back and wonder why we did nothing about climate change"

The fact people think Hillary is what America needs is mind boggling. Even the most hardcore of hardcore Feminists I know can't stand her.

What? You clearly know nothing about Hillary's positions:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

Not to mention even if Bernie wins, he would need the help of Congress to get anything done about it. Yet only Hillary is contributing to down ticket races to ensure Democrats get in to Congress and enact progressive legislation.

This is also ignoring that Obama just signed the Paris Climate Change Agreement, and Hilalry has sworn to protect and expand Obama's policies
 

johnsmith

remember me
I was talking more in a way like "people will look back and wonder why we did nothing about climate change"

The fact people think Hillary is what America needs is mind boggling. Even the most hardcore of hardcore Feminists I know can't stand her.

Are they more hardcore than Gloria Steinem?
 

nib95

Banned
The reasons he lost are plentiful and obvious.

The office of the presidency is not some omnipotent all powerful office. He needed to make alliances and support down ticket and he didn't. Even if by some miracle in an alternate universe he won, he wouldn't accomplish anything because he wouldn't have the power to do so.

Likewise with Hillary, but after you're in power it's a different ballgame in terms of Democrat support. And starting a negotiation from the far left in general terms, is still likely to yield far better results than starting from the centre.
 
HA Goodman told me she'd be indicted and it's just not fair she hasn't been!
LLShC.gif
 
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

Give me the reasons why she should be in prison.
 
Likewise with Hillary, but after you're in power it's a different ballgame in terms of Democrat support. And starting a negotiation from the far left in general terms, is still likely to yield infinitely better results than starting from the centre.

Hillary is on the left, not the center.

She also has a long, plentiful list of connections she could use.
 
A part of me thinks people will look back on this election in the future and think how in hell didn't Sanders win.

A large part of me though wants Hillary to be indicted. Honestly, she would already be in prison now if she was anybody but Hillary Clinton.

What are you basing this off of?
 

Cipherr

Member
People barely even remember the people that make it to the general and lose in most cases. I think its a bit of wishful thinking to expect that Bernie would have some special place in the mind of those in the future.

You really need to remember that he is less popular among the populace than she is. He is LOSING the popular vote because more people want Hillary as opposed to him. I reckon when this election is looked back on in the past it will be "First female president" and "LOL Donald Trump" and not much about Bernie Sanders.

That's just how it goes.
 

hawk2025

Member
The people confident on how the future will look back on this election have shown the thinnest grasp on actual policy positions and implementation in the thread so far.


This uncanny valley of hubris is in no way surprising.
 
People barely even remember the people that make it to the general and lose in most cases. I think its a bit of wishful thinking to expect that Bernie would have some special place in the mind of those in the future.

You really need to remember that he is less popular among the populace than she is. He is LOSING the popular vote because more people want Hillary as opposed to him. I reckon when this election is looked back on in the past it will be "First female president" and "LOL Donald Trump" and not much about Bernie Sanders.

That's just how it goes.

Who remembers Ron Paul's revolution?

That was barely 4 years ago, barely.

Country has short term memory, it's why we have politicians that only function on short term policy.
 

Psydonk

Member

Are you and others completely fucking insane? If SWIM had taken emails out of a secure location, SWIM would be sitting in jail now for a decade.

SWIM had to sign papers upon papers of NDAs and agreements over this shit at former employment, like $550,000 fine and 15 years in jail.

"Lol they are just emails"

This is absurd. Anybody else would have been fucked, completely and utterly fucked.

Are they more hardcore than Gloria Steinem?

Anybody is more hardcore than a CIA snitch who ratted out her comrades.

What? You clearly know nothing about Hillary's positions:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

Not to mention even if Bernie wins, he would need the help of Congress to get anything done about it. Yet only Hillary is contributing to down ticket races to ensure Democrats get in to Congress and enact progressive legislation.

This is also ignoring that Obama just signed the Paris Climate Change Agreement, and Hilalry has sworn to protect and expand Obama's policies

You're completely missing the point.

Hillary is as establishment as you get, if you think she is going to do anything to rejuvenate peoples trust in the establishment, you have a big shock coming. I honestly believe the Clinton presidency will lead to a presidency worse than Trump in the future, due to the extreme reaction people will have to another bog standard, blatantly corrupt, establishment presidency.

We are also looking at another global financial turndown coming soon, alarm sirens are already going crazy for many economists. Hillary is not what the Government needs to establish confidence.
 

TheOfficeMut

Unconfirmed Member
Land of free truly. Guess some people think they are better and more qualified than others to do so. Okay we will leave it to uber superior race like yourself to vote only then.



Why? Did I tell someone to stop voting because their view dones't match my own?

I hope you realize that you're part of the reason why this country is becoming shit.

Same could be said for you.

Same could be said of him? What the hell are you doing to change the system besides proposing to cast a vote for Trump in support of anarchy? Lol
 
Are you and others completely fucking insane? If SWIM had taken emails out of a secure location, SWIM would be sitting in jail now for a decade.

SWIM had to sign papers upon papers of NDAs and agreements over this shit at former employment, like $550,000 fine and 15 years in jail.

"Lol they are just emails"

This is absurd. Anybody else would have been fucked, completely and utterly fucked.



Anybody is more hardcore than a CIA snitch who ratted out her comrades.



You're completely missing the point.

Hillary is as establishment as you get, if you think she is going to do anything to rejuvenate peoples trust in the establishment, you have a big shock coming. I honestly believe the Clinton presidency will lead to a presidency worse than Trump in the future, due to the extreme reaction people will have to another bog standard, blatantly corrupt, establishment presidency.

We are also looking at another global financial turndown coming soon, alarm sirens are already going crazy for many economists. Hillary is not what the Government needs to establish confidence.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ.
 

Sinoox

Banned
Bernie's intent right now is to save the Democratic party, but it might be too late. By winning enough delegates he can make demands for what issues become the party's platform. I'm surprised nobody has figured out his strategy yet.

If the Democratic party fails to oblige we could very well see a third party candidate pull the rug from under the establishment's feet this election.
 

Psydonk

Member
Give me the reasons why she should be in prison.

Taking emails off a government server?

THIS IS A FEDERAL CRIME. THIS SENDS ANYBODY TO JAIL FOR A DECADE WITH HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF FINES.

Jesus christ. It's the fucking law. The only reason they are dancing around it once again is because it's a rich and powerful person who has been caught.

If this was any normal person, they would be in jail, there would be no FBI dance around, they would be currently rotting in a prison cell.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Bernie's intent right now is to save the Democratic party, but it might be too late. By winning enough delegates he can make demands for what issues become the party's platform. I'm surprised nobody has figured out his strategy yet.

If the Democratic party fails to oblige we could very well see a third party candidate pull the wrong from under the establishment's feet.

A Bernie third party run guarantees a Trump presidency. I have a lot to dislike about Bernie, but he is neither that stupid nor that self-centered
 

hawk2025

Member
We are also looking at another global financial turndown coming soon, alarm sirens are already going crazy for many economists. Hillary is not what the Government needs to establish confidence.


You seem to have an amazing grasp on the future, so share with the class these alarm sirens going crazy for many economists.
 

Bernie Sanders is a politician, just like every other candidate.

Look at his stances on Gun Control, Gay Marriage, the bills he proposed and the riders he added.

He's just as much a politician as Hillary, most of his support comes from Unions (something that's conveniently left out or forgotten) and Millennials (LOL good luck getting those lazy fucks to vote down ticket).

Bernie lost, he lost for legitimate, real reasons that indicated he would not be a good president in terms of policy change or reform. Pie in the sky dreams are nice, idealism is nice, but we live in reality where in realpolitik, you have to negotiate and compromise on your visions to get what you need to get done (see ACA).
 

Alucrid

Banned
Taking emails off a government server?

THIS IS A FEDERAL CRIME. THIS SENDS ANYBODY TO JAIL FOR A DECADE WITH HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF FINES.

Jesus christ. It's the fucking law. The only reason they are dancing around it once again is because it's a rich and powerful person who has been caught.

If this was any normal person, they would be in jail, there would be no FBI dance around, they would be currently rotting in a prison cell.

wait, but why would that send her to jail?
 
Bernie's intent right now is to save the Democratic party, but it might be too late. By winning enough delegates he can make demands for what issues become the party's platform. I'm surprised nobody has figured out his strategy yet.

If the Democratic party fails to oblige we could very well see a third party candidate pull the rug from under the establishment's feet this election.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

I swear it's babies first election for some of you people.

Bernie is the failed "populist" candidate we get at least 1 every cycle.
 
Taking emails off a government server?

THIS IS A FEDERAL CRIME. THIS SENDS ANYBODY TO JAIL FOR A DECADE WITH HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF FINES.

Jesus christ. It's the fucking law. The only reason they are dancing around it once again is because it's a rich and powerful person who has been caught.

If this was any normal person, they would be in jail, there would be no FBI dance around, they would be currently rotting in a prison cell.
Are you sure you know what the email controversy is about?
 

Psydonk

Member
Oh Jesus fucking Christ.

Those wonderful arguments. Because there isn't a current political trend of backlash to establishment candidates across the western world, leaning towards the far-right isn't there?

Oh wait. ooops.

If you think the rise of a Golden Dawn or National Front or whatever isn't possible in the United States, you're crazy. Everyone is noticing this reaction to the far-right. Hillary is not going to do anything to make people trust the establishment. If another financial crises hits during her presidency, things are going to go very bad.
 

danm999

Member
Are you and others completely fucking insane? If SWIM had taken emails out of a secure location, SWIM would be sitting in jail now for a decade.

SWIM had to sign papers upon papers of NDAs and agreements over this shit at former employment, like $550,000 fine and 15 years in jail.

"Lol they are just emails"

This is absurd. Anybody else would have been fucked, completely and utterly fucked.



Anybody is more hardcore than a CIA snitch who ratted out her comrades.



You're completely missing the point.

Hillary is as establishment as you get, if you think she is going to do anything to rejuvenate peoples trust in the establishment, you have a big shock coming. I honestly believe the Clinton presidency will lead to a presidency worse than Trump in the future, due to the extreme reaction people will have to another bog standard, blatantly corrupt, establishment presidency.

We are also looking at another global financial turndown coming soon, alarm sirens are already going crazy for many economists. Hillary is not what the Government needs to establish confidence.

It's not a hypothetical. Two former SoS (Condi Rice and Colin Powell) also had private email servers that received classified Intel.

Did they go to jail? Has that idea even been floated outside the context of questioning why HRC deserves to go to jail?

You say if it were anyone else they'd be in the slammer but the two people who did the job previously did the same and did not.

So now it's time for some critical thinking.
 
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