Support NeoGAF

[Isomac]

Souls games were built to not have pause menu in offline and online. That's fine. Not every game needs to have pause. It's not mandatory feature. It can make things more interesting when you can't just pause situation and think about it.

You could use it to cheat too. Get caught in a combo that kills you. Pause and load the last save before battle...

 

[Melchiah]

By taking them out of their comfort zone.

That seems like your favorite term. So how exactly is not having a pause option linked to games as a service model outside of MOBAs? Driveclub was one, and it had the option.


EDIT:

You believe that I'm the only person who plays Alienation online?

And you believe I'm the only one, who's not interested in the idea of mandatory PVP invasion?


EDIT.2 Missed your edit.

Are you sure we're talking about the same Alienation? Everything you've been saying is at odds with the game. You said it takes longer to clear the map than it does to get to a bonfire, when it's no more than 45 seconds of walk time between checkpoint beacons. You said you also don't see how it would interfere with Horde events like you've never heard that "wub wub" go off while you're in the inventory screen, to even know that it can get the drop on you when you least expect it. Now you're saying there's no safe spots when the entire game is a process of clearing out areas and effectively rendering them "safe" until you die, and every checkpoint is a safe spot - if you sat at it, you'd respawn right where you are, even if you died.

You do realize, that destroying the beacons increases the bonus, and dying wipes the bonus? If you do the optional quests, that reap better rewards, and explore the area, it takes a lot longer than to just go along the main quest. As for the horde event, having a pause option wouldn't make them any more expectable. So, what exactly in my posts has been at odds with the game?

 

[Jingo]

Yes they do.

The idea that not being able to pause in dark souls is somehow meaningful to the game is taking the dumb 'git gud' meme to its most asinine extreme

Yeah, i dont want to loose my progress or my hard earned souls just cause i had an emergency and i couldnt pause, those of you giving the idea of quitting the game, isnt that a unnecessary work around?

You could simply put a pause on/off button for those who like it, those who dont like it( many on this topic it appears) could still be emersed, its like sports pants, you re never gonna using them but you re glad you have them

These games already have a big investment time to take the most from them, i dont need being slowed down just because the game thinks its a better idea, maybe good for those with lots of time, i just cant afford it..

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Are you serious? In Dark Souls you can constantly pause, kill the few enemies in an area and put your controller down, you won't die...Seriously I start to think people that complain about pausing in the Souls games actually never played them.
Edit: Also the rest feature on the PS4 puts this to rest anyway.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

That seems like your favorite term.

I don't know if I'd put it in my top 10.

So how exactly is not having a pause option linked to games as a service model outside of MOBAs? Driveclub was one, and it had the option.

You're asking me about something LegendofLex wants to talk about.

If you instead want to ask me why I think everyone would get a better experience if a game like Alienation was online only, and why your chief complaint about not being able to pause would have already rationalized itself away, feel free.

 

[Melchiah]

If you instead want to ask me why I think everyone would get a better experience if a game like Alienation was online only, and why your chief complaint about not being able to pause would have already rationalized itself away, feel free.

You're saying the experience would be better for PVE-players, if they'd be forced to accept invasions, just to have more opponents for the PVP-players?

 

[NewDust]

I might be misrembering, but don't soulsborne games save your current state when you exit to the main menu? Not a full replacement for the pause button, but is really only inconvenient if you are in a bossfight and adds loadtimes.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

EDIT.2 Missed your edit.


You do realize, that destroying the beacons increases the bonus, and dying wipes the bonus? If you do the optional quests, that reap better rewards, and explore the area, it takes a lot longer than to just go along the main quest. As for the horde event, having a pause option wouldn't make them any more expectable. So, what exactly in my posts has been at odds with the game?

I was going to pre-emptively address all that, but I didn't want post a rosetta stone. If you're trying to do a Bonus Hog run, you already understand what risk and reward is, and are capable of rationalizing when things go south. I wouldn't recommend trying to spend more than 5-10 minutes on a map and doing anything other than objectives, if the potential of losing your bonus is too much to handle. Additionally, if your objective is to get better loot, you're missing out on a party bonus by playing offline against fewer and weaker foes, killing at a slower pace... you're getting worse loot at a less efficient pace.

Also, why should you be able to grind for sweet loot without increased risk of dying while idle or while going into the inventory just because you play offline, while those of us who play online and host or join in games, have to be more on point to get the same rewards?

 

[Melchiah]

I was going to pre-emptively address all that, but I didn't want post a rosetta stone. If you're trying to do a Bonus Hog run, you already understand what risk and reward is, and are capable of rationalizing when things go south.

Also, why should you be able to grind for sweet loot without increased risk of dying while idle or while going into the inventory just because you play offline, while those of us who play online, visible in the public game listings, have to be more on point to get the same rewards?

There's already increased risk when you destroy the checkpoints. The risk of dying would still be there, if the game had a pause option. It's not like it would affect the game's challenge or difficulty level in any way. Isn't the game actually easier for those who play online as a team?


EDIT: Another stealth edit I missed.

I wouldn't recommend trying to spend more than 5-10 minutes on a map and doing anything other than objectives, if the potential of losing your bonus is too much to handle. Additionally, if your objective is to get better loot, you're missing out on a party bonus by playing offline against fewer and weaker foes, killing at a slower pace... you're getting worse loot at a less efficient pace.

The possibility of losing the bonus is always there, and I accept that when it comes from the challenge the gameplay offers, not when it comes from the lack of pause when the phone rings. It's pretty absurd in this day and age, that I should notify my close ones when it's a proper time to call me, as I can't pause the game I'm playing.

I'm planning to try it as a team, when/if some of my friends get the game, and when/if we find time to play together. The common problem for middle-aged gamers.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

The risk of dying would still be there

So you're okay with the possibility of dying.

Isn't the game actually easier for those who play online as a team?

No. Greater number of foes, stronger foes, tougher events obviously. The game would be a boring cakewalk for a party if that wasn't the case.

If you're playing online, solo but still capable of hosting, people are playing the same game as you. In this hypothetical you're proposing, where you get to pause if you're offline, it would simply be easier to acquire rewards offline and easier overall. That means you'd get the long end of the stick.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Ah, I haven't tried team mode yet. That still doesn't address the question, that how exactly would having the pause option make the game less challenging? And I don't see how being able to pause offline would make the game any easier either. It would just remove an annoyance, that infers with playing the game.

I play online. My game is open. I'm essentially participating. You'd be able to pause and I wouldn't be. In order to get the same shot at the same rewards, I'd have to be 100% on the ball, and always mindful of Horde events, invasions, and stray enemies, not able to give my mind/fingers a break mid-battle and get my bearings. Conversely, you could take as much time and as many breathers as you want, answer as many calls, knocks or go for a jog and run errands... which means it would be easier offline by demanding less of you and lowering your risk of death. That's unfair and means people who play online and appear in server lists as game hosts are being penalized for doing so. Instead, by making it equal all across the board, it's not a perceivable imbalance.

This small difference would likely act as incentive for playing offline rather than playing online, which definitely isn't good for such an online-centric game, especially on consoles where communities already don't last near as long as they do on PC. That's what I was getting at when I lamented the rarity of player invasions due to it being an optional component, off by default. I think something as simple as "no way, you can't pause if you play online" would be anathema, whereas if people are playing it online and people just start joining, they're already contextualizing a would be "issue" without ever even thinking about it.

 

[Melchiah]

So you're okay with the possibility of dying.

When did I say I was not? After all, it's a pretty common thing in this game, Housemarque's games in general, and From's games. The difference is, does the risk come from gameplay, or not having a pause.


EDIT:

No. Greater number of foes, stronger foes, tougher events obviously. The game would be a boring cakewalk for a party if that wasn't the case.

If you're playing online, solo but still capable of hosting, people are playing the same game as you. In this hypothetical you're proposing, where you get to pause if you're offline, it would simply be easier to acquire rewards offline and easier overall. That means you'd get the long end of the stick.

Ah, I haven't tried team mode yet. That still doesn't address the question, that how exactly would having the pause option make the game less challenging? And I don't see how being able to pause offline would make the game any easier either. It would just remove an annoyance, that infers with playing the game.

 

[jotun?]

Dying because you can't pause to go answer the door == omgthisgamedesignissohardcore

 

[MaKTaiL]

Wow, I'm suprised this thread lasted 6 pages. I thought the issue was resolved on the very first page. Why are you guys still debating this?

 

[Naudi]

I'm glad Souls games don't have it. There is something about exploring a new area not knowing how you're going to die next and not being able to pause to get a break in the intensity. For me it would diminish the game slightly, not a lot but it would make me feel safer.

 

[ogbg]

Then don't allow the player to make any changes. There are plenty of games where after pressing pause the only thing you can do is unpause.

Sure, they should just make it one button press instead of two or three. I'd be happy with that.

EDIT: Which button though?

 

[Screaming Meat]

Wow, I'm suprised this thread lasted 6 pages. I thought the issue was resolved on the very first page. Why are you guys still debating this?

The last thread about this went on much longer.

 

[Devil]

Part of the tension in those games comes from no pause mode. And how would it work with matchmaking? You could just smash the pause button every so often to interrupt invaders, like a big jessie.

Those games don't need pause buttons. Deal with it.

You could easily just put the pause function on hold while you are actually connected to other players. The games also have an offline mode for crying out loud and still don't offer you a pause function at least there.

Those "deal with it" answers are pretty shitty to be honest. Not being able to pause the game when the phone rings or another person is trying to talk to me is definitely NOT part of what makes the games so tense for me. It's a silly flaw and always has been, no matter how much I love From's games.

It's not like we are talking about a controversial topic like that difficulty setting discussion. Pausing the game would not destroy what the game was built for at all.

If I could pause the game every time I shit my pants it wouldn't be a Souls game.

Like in almost any horror game ever? Many games have a unforgiving, tense way of playing it. Yet you can still pause these games, because that's just what people have to do if real life is knocking. If the phone rings, the immersion has already been broken, no matter whether I decide to pause the game or not. Immersion is a ridiculous argument considering the reason people want a pause function is for situations which happen outside of the game.

Also, people arguing that you could just quit the game... Are you serious? You are admitting that pausing is necessary sometimes. So instead of being in favour of the easiest and oldest solution to this problem, hitting pause, you'll shut down the game. Which leads to exactly the same "negative effect" you are naming against the pause function, breaking the immersion, but instead is a lot more inconvenient and needs A LOT more time immerse you into the game again.

I love challenge, I love tension, I love Soulsborne. But knowing that the progress from all your nervous cautiousness and success is completely taken away not because of your own mistake but because of the doorbell.. THAT'S an immersion-killer if I have ever seen one.

 

[Acerac]

The last thread about this went on much longer.

It's such a wonderful subject for creating straw men.

For what it's worth I feel that pause buttons tend to crap up multiplayer games.

 

[Coffinhal]

the souls games can't have pause modes because of the nature of the multiplayer

Hinteople still play offline.

These soulsbourne fanboys duh.

 

[Screaming Meat]

It's such a wonderful subject for creating straw men.

Hinteople still play offline.

Sure, but I think there's more to it. I'm going to repost this but I like the idea that when you're in the game, you're in the game. To a degree, you're always under threat when you're engaged with it, with no easy respite unless you decide to exit the world entirely or find/create a safe area.

The lack of a dedicated pause, a standard gaming safety net, really fits the Souls ethos well and I quite like it as a design choice.

 

[007]

Sure, but I think there's more to it. I'm going to repost this but I like the idea that when you're in the game, you're in the game. To a degree, you're always under threat when you're engaged with it, with no easy respite unless you decide to exit the world entirely or find/create a safe area.

The lack of a dedicated pause, a standard gaming safety net, really fits the Souls ethos well and I quite like it as a design choice.

Glad we're on the same page SM. It's not like Fromsoft did't put it in for the sake of its removal, there was a decision way back during the development of Demons' Souls to remove it, and it's been part of their design ever since.

Sure it's possible to put one it, but it wouldn't fit with the design philosophy of the game. I know I need not explain this, as you understand.

 

[Eumi]

Good to see the souls defence force out in strength. Never give up guys. Never surrender. Never stop not stopping.

Personally I find the whole "-blank- game can't have a pause button" hilarious. Like, Street Fighter games can be paused, because they had the foresight to code it so that when you're offline, you can pause, but when online the game detects this and disabled the option. There is no excuse for no offline pause function, especially in a game like souls where you can still quit to the main menu at any time and load back in with no lost progress. The idea that it makes the game more tense may be true, but so would the knowledge that a game has no save system. It doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

[yurinka]

I specially hate the Street Fighter V case. Where there is a pause for the single player content but instead of pausing the game using the options menu you need to "exit" the game pressing the PS button and go back to the game to see that the pause will be enabled.

This is specially an issue when using a PS3 stick.

 

[FallenGrace]

Nothing gets me more pissed than wanting to pause a game and dont have that option, when i was a kid that probably wont bother me cause the only times i would stop was when my mother call me for dinner or something like that, i could play for hours.
But as we grow older we get a lot of things going on and we simply cant control it, is it a phone call, the wife trying to say me something, the baby who suddenly wakes up, who knows.

I dont know where this "always on game" thing came up, it seems every game its like that nowadays, i get the idea is to make the game harder and dont let your focus down, but its kinda ironic since most games now have constant checkpoints and helth regeneration, so i think this lacks its purpose.

I say most games cause then you have the ones you cant sleep for a second or you ll do it all over again:

Bloodborne, dark souls and now the infamous " Nioh"

Serious, pause mode please.

Have you played the series? (Serious question) because these games (Souls, Bloodborne) have form of pause. You quit from the menu, and when you continue you are in exactly the same spot, the game world state is saved.

Your whole post is based on a lack of knowledge on the series it seems.

 

[Screaming Meat]

The idea that it makes the game more tense may be true, but so would the knowledge that a game has no save system. It doesn't mean it's a good idea.

It's not a one or the other type situation with tension; it stacks. Like, doesn't the auto save system add more tension by making all of your decisions irreversible?

Whether one thinks a design choice is good or bad is subjective; understanding why they made that choice and how it slots into the larger tapestry of other choices, isn't.

 

[Dunkley]

Look I played through most Souls games so I now feel gud enough to say it, but outside of being embered/human/body-form/summoned, the games would absolutely lose nothing from having a pause function since there's no possible chance for MP unless you actively joined an MP session. Let it be noted I'm not asking to being able to quit or change equips while paused, but literally just halting the game for a moment.

And yeah you can quit to menu, but if I'm getting called for work, have to answer the door or got something cooking on the side it's literally just an unjustified inconvenience to me to not being able to quickly pause when there's no chance for MP, and instead having to click through the couple of menus just so I can suspend the game.

And on that for bosses like the Undead Settlement boss where you actually gotta invest time to look for weak points it's absolutely bullshit you get reset to the boss fog with all your health and Estus lost too, just because you weren't able to divide your attention to the game for one minute. I mean, just why, if I wanted to use time to look up how to fight it I could've just done so before the boss, and the extra time I get from a pause aren't magically gonna turn me into a pro either.

Do I think the game is good without pause? Yeah, I'm still having fun, but the lack of pause seriously feels like an unnecessary inconnvience in an otherwise pleasant game.

 

[Rottmer]

Can't you just stop and put down the game and tend to whatever needs to be tended to, or just find a safe place to idle at? Even if you die, it won't really be a big deal. Just take care of the important stuff first. Video games are meant to be a luxury.

 

[Shambalakan]

If you want to pause for going kitchen and eat something, using quit in menu will be okay in Dark Souls. but this isn't the situation all the time.
You have thousands of souls and fighting a boss. suddenly someone calls you on phone for an important thing. with a pause button, you can push that button and answer the phone easily. but with menus?! you can't talk to the boss: "please don't hurt me until I go to menu and select another menu and then quit the game!" that's the difference between pause button and using quit in menu.
That was only an example and you can add other situations to that.

 

[Hektor]

Seriously I start to think people that complain about (...) Souls games actually never played them.

This is more the impression i have, tbqh.

I mean, just the ammount of people that don't even udnerstand that DS isn't supposed to be played offline already tells me as much.

 

[Screaming Meat]

You have thousands of souls and fighting a boss. suddenly someone calls you on phone for an important thing.

Wait, how do you know it's an important thing before you answer the phone...?

 

[wackojackosnose]

I specially hate the Street Fighter V case. Where there is a pause for the single player content but instead of pausing the game using the options menu you need to "exit" the game pressing the PS button and go back to the game to see that the pause will be enabled.

This is specially an issue when using a PS3 stick.

What PS3 stick are you using?
For my PS3 Madcatz SFvsT stick, the Start button is a direct replacement for the PS4 Option button and the PS Home button doesn't work at all.

 

[texhnolyze]

Yeah, it sucks that I can't pause in Dark Souls. But honestly it doesn't really bother me.

I usually place my character in a corner or just quit the game if it's not too urgent. I can easily quit to answer phone calls etc. Fortunately, I have a very understanding wife as well.

However, I think Souls games can still apply pause mode, especially for online, if From want to. Just copy Dota 2 pause mode system or modify it a bit. Basically if you're invading or being invaded and you want to pause, everyone there will have the right to say yes/no to pause. Of course there'll be a limit to how long and how many times you can pause so it won't be abused.

 

[Shambalakan]

Wait, how do you know it's an important thing before you answer the phone...?

I have sixth sense! That was only an example!

 

[NewGame]

DotA2 has a pause. It's the best feature. Everyone Loves it. Everyone.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I have sixth sense! That was only an example!

I was only kidding, man.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I dont really understand why Dark Souls cant get a pause button when someone isnt invading or you arent playing with a friend.

Just make a pause button that freezes the screen with a pause text.
If you really want it doesnt break the oh so laude difficulty, make it so you can only pause when your life is not endangered, so its not activated when you are not touching the floor with your feet (or you are rolling away) or when theres some part of the life bar in yellow when you received a hit.
Other games do that, and not having a pause button is fucking bad design. Having to die because I need to get the phone is not cute, is freaking idiotic.

 

[Jingo]

You could easily just put the pause function on hold while you are actually connected to other players. The games also have an offline mode for crying out loud and still don't offer you a pause function at least there.

Those "deal with it" answers are pretty shitty to be honest. Not being able to pause the game when the phone rings or another person is trying to talk to me is definitely NOT part of what makes the games so tense for me. It's a silly flaw and always has been, no matter how much I love From's games.

It's not like we are talking about a controversial topic like that difficulty setting discussion. Pausing the game would not destroy what the game was built for at all.



Like in almost any horror game ever? Many games have a unforgiving, tense way of playing it. Yet you can still pause these games, because that's just what people have to do if real life is knocking. If the phone rings, the immersion has already been broken, no matter whether I decide to pause the game or not. Immersion is a ridiculous argument considering the reason people want a pause function is for situations which happen outside of the game.

Also, people arguing that you could just quit the game... Are you serious? You are admitting that pausing is necessary sometimes. So instead of being in favour of the easiest and oldest solution to this problem, hitting pause, you'll shut down the game. Which leads to exactly the same "negative effect" you are naming against the pause function, breaking the immersion, but instead is a lot more inconvenient and needs A LOT more time immerse you into the game again.

I love challenge, I love tension, I love Soulsborne. But knowing that the progress from all your nervous cautiousness and success is completely taken away not because of your own mistake but because of the doorbell.. THAT'S an immersion-killer if I have ever seen one.

I could not express my feelings better than this post!

When i started this topic , i wasnt aiming directly to souls games, my bad for pointing out those games, i was talking all of them who dont have a pause button, just thinking if i could have the option to have a pause, it would be great, those who want the most pure experience would just turn it off, the more options the better.

 

[Valkyr1983]

I don't know if I'd put it in my top 10.



You're asking me about something LegendofLex wants to talk about.

If you instead want to ask me why I think everyone would get a better experience if a game like Alienation was online only, and why your chief complaint about not being able to pause would have already rationalized itself away, feel free.

I wouldn't have bought alienation if pvp invasions were mandatory and I'm sure I'm not the only one

I disabled pvp in watchdogs and souls games as well (by playing offline)

Nothing wrong with not enjoying playing / interacting with other people

I don't care if it means pvp players have less options, it's not my job to play in a way I don't enjoy just to give them what they want

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I don't care if it means pvp players have less options, it's not my job to play in a way I don't enjoy just to give them what they want

That's why people who disagree with you don't care what you want or like either. It's not my job to argue for games to be worse just so that you've got more games to play.

 

[jesu]

Not being able to pause cut scenes is annoying too.

 

[cireza]

You know what really needs a pause mode?

Life.

This and Ctrl + Z would be great.