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Poor AMD performance with DOOM.
- Thread starter VlaudTheImpaler
- Start date
General Lee
Member
Remind me next time a game comes with similar "driver issue" on Nvidia's side so we can come back to this.
The performance of their game is their business, of course it's something they should be paying attention to. If they add new graphics features for the PC port at a late stage, and those potentially break performance, they should ensure there's enough time for Nvidia/AMD to get it fixed, and not just release it as is and fix it whenever. This has been a problem with some games on both sides of the fence. It's simply not something that any self-respecting developer should be doing. They should try to support all their potential customers and not be a part of some Nvidia vs. AMD pissing contest.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
No, not really, shadows and smoke apparently are the killers but setting them to low still doesn't fix the microstutters or the tearing for me.
What's the tearing issue you're having? Does it happen with both control panel and in game(non adaptive) vsync? and as for the stuttering, have you tried rtss frame limiting?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Please read the OP.
Well, first of all don't lock to 60(without vsync at least). That's a recipe for tearing. Have you tried forcing control panel triple buffering with control panel (or maybe in game) vsync? The drops to 30 are exactly what you should expect anytime you can't maintain 60. Triple buffering will fix that if you can get it to work.
Edited
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes.
Try capping slightly above or below your refresh rate. Might help tearing a bit.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm a consumer too, but I hold no illusions about what corporations will do if given a choice between doing what is good for the shareholders and what is good for the consumers. Since I know what the corporation will decide already, I simply adjust my expectations accordingly and only buy products where I know the corporation's interests will actually align with mine. To do otherwise is tilting at windmills.
Ulysses 31
Member
I had tripple buffering enbled and still the game would lock to half the refresh rate a lot of the times. =/
I played a bit without v-sync and I didn't notice any tearing but I was getting 70+ fps on a 144 hz monitor though.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Nah, sounds to me like you've just given up which isn't actually helping IMO. If the consumers of a certain brand speak out they can keep that brand honest. I've seen this happen and have been a part of this several times but it is rare.
This is how I personally treat these situations. I advocate first and give a chance for change. If nothing happens then I move. But only if the other options are actually better for the consumers in my eyes. Lesser of two weevils and all that jazz.
I don't hold a flag for anyone but the consumer. To give up advocating for the consumer is to let the corporations have control.
If you always just choose the lesser of the two evils first and don't try to advocate then things will just keep getting worse for everyone. Insert Proverbial boiling frog analogy of choice here...
Well what about the adaptive v sync?
Yeah, it's probably just not working.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yes. This should be filed under, "doesn't matter what setting I change" lol.
Ok last try. Have you tried v sync or frame limiting through radeon pro yet?
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Isn't Radeon settings the same thing?
Not sure. I know the frame cap isn't the same. It might also let you adjust the flip queue size, which radeon settings doesn't anymore (iirc). That(the flip queue) helped me a lot in the bet, though I am running a geforce + dual core system.
lyrick
Member
I was in the alpha last October (and the last couple Betas), back then the game was running at a solid 60fps on my 290x at the Alpha & Betas "Ultra" preset. I didn't preorder or even bother purchasing, because I pretty much know what to expect with an AMD card from id Software... this wasn't my first rodeo and id Software has shown to given a little less than two fucks to ATI/AMD users for over a decade. I was simply shocked that the game performance looks like it fell apart for AMD users in the last few months.
Some of the tweets getting tossed about makes it look like they increased the bar of some of the setting presets, but it still doesn't explain why some of the top 10 cards on the Market (390/390X) which are typically competitive with 780/780ti & 970s even sometimes 980s are now not even keeping up with 960s and similar mid tier cards even from AMDs previous GCN cards.
If id Software chose to go with Nvidias fork of OpenGL instead of the Khronos group standard that would explain a lot. Shit like that happens when you don't follow specific standards and follow specialized forks. It's amazing how some devs can't even get C/C++ code to compile (on a gnu compiler) after they spend too much time playing around in the Microsoft camp of Compilers. I'm assuming a similar game is being played at the id house, they went too far down the Nvidia rabbit hole and simply forgot or continued to not give any fucks about AMD users.
I've just tried it with a 290. Had no issues. I enabled OpenGL triple Buffering and forced Vsync. Had all my settings on high and some on ultra at 1080p. It never drops below 60 except on control panels. I haven't pushed it yet and I suspect performance wise it won't bench as well as it should, but it works just fine.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Can you tell me exactly what programs you have used to set these settings? I have downloaded Radeon Pro and will tinker after I eat. Again though, you might want to check the comments above me or at the bottom of the last page, there was a guy who thought there were no problems but there actually where, he just wasn't sensitive to them.
I used Crimson settings. Just toggle OGL triple buffering and forced vsync.
e: I also put shadows at medium as per the tweet.
'Literally' is a strong word. Amnesia and Soma would like to have a word with this post. DOTA2 Reborn also has a very good GL renderer that is locked by default on Windows, likely due to issues with AMD and Intel GL drivers.
Wait, Amnesia and Soma run on OpenGL? Soma ran great on my 280X, CPU was more of an issue, but *rarely* went below 60 with the terrible in game Vsync turned off.
Hope Doom does better on Vulkan for *everyone*, Wolfenstein was acceptable for the most part running at 60, but there were areas when it did struggle for no reason at all :lol.
Edit: Kinda dumb that AMD dropped the ball on OGL performance when they did get their DX11 drivers sorted eventually, though I guess it's pretty much dead once Vulkan hits and future GPUs will be able to bruteforce performance anyway. Still a shame.
Hope Doom does better on Vulkan for *everyone*, Wolfenstein was acceptable for the most part running at 60, but there were areas when it did struggle for no reason at all :lol.
Edit: Kinda dumb that AMD dropped the ball on OGL performance when they did get their DX11 drivers sorted eventually, though I guess it's pretty much dead once Vulkan hits and future GPUs will be able to bruteforce performance anyway. Still a shame.
What is this even supposed to mean?
That depends on what you mean by "sorted". AMD's CPU performance overhead in DX11 is still significantly higher than NV's, and their driver still sucks at DX11-style parallelization.
E.g.
I said sorted but I meant "less shit".
flashburn2012
Member
A fix for the 290/390 performance will be coming in the next hotfix driver. Or so says a little bird.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Does this little bird have an eta? Also, is it African or European?
AstroNut325
Member
Anyone playing this on a i3 with a 380/380X?
Locuza
Member
He means the practical problem that Nvidias drivers in some cases accept things which are not OGL conformant.
But thats not an exclusive Nvidia problem, I saw a presentation about a Linux game port where one developer stated that he found use cases where all three desktop vendors accepted code which wasn't OGL conformant, even funnier he wrote conformant code which nobody accepted.
flashburn2012
Member
Should be next week.
lyrick
Member
It means of all the OpenGL Adopter companies {AMD, Intel, Microsoft, and Nvidia} Nvidia is the only one with Conformant products for the 4_5 release . Whether or not they implemented more or alternate procedures on top of what conformance requires is guesswork.
Why the Fuck would any Studio choose to release a game based on a spec that is only conformant with products offered from a single company? Even when Mantle was a brief blip on the scene titles like Battlefield & Civ still performed as intended and on Nvidia products using the default rendering API.
The game uses 4.3 with extensions from 4.4 and 4.5, at least for AMD.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Ok, I just tried both of these and no luck. Seems like the game ignores both Radeon Pro and Crimson Radeon Settings.
I really wish I could be at your guys' computers to see for myself if there is any microstuttering lol. I know some people just aren't as susceptible to it as others but that still wouldn't account for the crazy tearing...
Can you guys try playing on the first level? The microstutter is the most apparent on that level to me, probably because it is so bright. All you have to do is walk out of the elevator and walk up to the cliff. Though it is still apparent throughout the entire level...
I've heard those cards perform better than my 390 right now but I don't know about the stuttering/tearing. Can't help you with the CPU. I'm not at that tech level yet lol.
I'll take your word for it this time...
Don't be playin with my heart breh.
dr_rus
Member
Remind me next time a game comes with similar "driver issue" on Nvidia's side so we can come back to this.
Sure thing, next time I'll see such driver issue on NV I'll let you know. Just to put things into context - haven't seen them on NV for some years at the moment.
In my experience nv is better at releasing drivers specifically for games right at launch, amd takes a bit.
Amd in general use has been more stable. Less driver crashes, black screens, and weird resolution scaling issues that nvidia has had problems with in my experience over the last couple years. My displays are somewhat unique though. A Samsung 28" 4k and a Panasonic 65" 4k through displayport.
I don't usually buy games right at launch, wait a bit for sales typically.
Amd in general use has been more stable. Less driver crashes, black screens, and weird resolution scaling issues that nvidia has had problems with in my experience over the last couple years. My displays are somewhat unique though. A Samsung 28" 4k and a Panasonic 65" 4k through displayport.
I don't usually buy games right at launch, wait a bit for sales typically.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yeah, sigh, I usually wait too. But Wolfenstein was a special game for me and I am a sucker for old school shooters.
This wait is killing me.
I got Radeon Settings triple buffering & forced vsync to work by using the Global profile settings. I still had the drops to 30fps that I got with in-game vsync, though the game would snap back to 60fps much quicker. Still super jarring though.
Right now I'm playing with vsync totally off, which sucks because I hate screen tearing. But drops from 60fps straight to 30fps are the absolute worst. Hopefully fixes are coming. :[
st1nk nuts
Member
Really? I'm pretty sure dark souls 3 was crashing on 700 series cards and it was a driver issue, or did I hear wrong.
I don't seem to suffer with any screen tearing on my 4kTV, I can run it unlocked without issue, which surprised me actually.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's funny you mention the boiling frog analogy when it's well known to be untrue. The frog isn't stupid, it will jump out of the water before it dies.
DOOM is a genuinely amazing game and hopefully when the Vulkan renderer comes out, the AMD owners will be able to enjoy it to it's fullest. I mean I've been playing it the whole day and the only reason I'm stopping is to get some sleep so I can play again tomorrow. This game is too good to not share with everybody, whether they own Nvidia or AMD.
Jedipottsy
Member
AMD openGL drivers suck, plain and simple. This isn't an ID thing. Although because ID use openGL it might seem like it. Other openGL apps/games from other developers have similar issues on AMD hardware. Such that we won't buy AMD cards at our work because majority of the software we run is openGL.
False. Doom 3 was a incredible on a Radeon 9700 Pro. It was one of the first PC games at the time where it just worked outbid the gate without serious tweaking. Ran like a dream.
Turin Turambar
Member
I think you are thinking of Rage, which had a botched launch because of the drivers.
dr_rus
Member
DS3 was crashing because of DS3, not the driver.
The game uses 4.5 on Nvidia and 4.3 on AMD. I'd say that's basically ideal. Are you saying that they should hold back everyone since one vendor hasn't yet implemented the latest version of the standard?
(A version for which the spec was released almost a year ago mind you!)
selfconfessedcynic
Member
Reporting in; R9 290 owner (4gb 290, 4790k, 16gigs ram, windows 10)
At 1080p, I can get a solid 60fps at ultra but with shadows set to low. I don't find that too bad.
(I literally kept everything defaulted on the Ultra preset, 1080p, bar changing Shadows to Low. If I didn't do this, I'd get long drops to 30fps - I am also forcing V-Sync through Radeon Settings)
At 1080p, I can get a solid 60fps at ultra but with shadows set to low. I don't find that too bad.
(I literally kept everything defaulted on the Ultra preset, 1080p, bar changing Shadows to Low. If I didn't do this, I'd get long drops to 30fps - I am also forcing V-Sync through Radeon Settings)
lyrick
Member
From the lists of Qualified products I would have said the ideal release would have been Vulkan first, with this tiered OpenGL release by vendor later down the road or never at all. Even Intel hasn't bothered with OGL 4.5 compliance testing, while they are right there for Vulkan along with every current product from AMD, Nvidia, ARMs Mali release and various Qualcom & Samsung chips. Without taking too deep a dive into the politics of what hardware partner contributed the most to the 4.5 spec or possibly personally tailored the whole thing to their specific needs or why the other adopters look as though they abandoned the platform at release 4.4. It's obvious that there are more adoptive partners and a whole lot more conformant products on the Vulkan side of things than the OGL4.5 side.
This doesn't seem a whole lot different in nature from releasing a game that is optimized for on one vendor with D3D11.3, but stuck on D3D11.1 on the other two hardware makers. No, I guess not as that would probably stir up more shit than that dev could handle...
The way it was done currently seems like a thinly veiled TWIMTBP/Gaming Evolved title, only instead of having specific options that are essentially hardware vendor exclusive, the entire base of the game is. The way this release was created, the title features hitches specific to an entire vendor with owners of the other hardware trying to guess what to disable to get the performance that they should be getting.