No it doesn't. It is going to take years to get there.
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Help me understand $15 minimum wage
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By 2022 the cost of living will be so high, the $15 wages will not help anyone.
But we need new bombs more than mooching citizens health. Fool.
teruterubozu
Member
All according to keikaku.
LegendofLex
Member
Two things:
1) Increase in wages = increase in consumption = increase in revenues.
2) Profits aren't the only place you can cut from to increase wages for low-wage workers.
Less jobs overall would people work harder to keep their jobs since it'd be easier to get fired since any mistake made is increased due to a higher salary and fewer co-workers. If someone's increasing your wage, they will expect more from you in order for you to keep it.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
What would happen, is that those that are currently 15 dollars would would have wage increases over time. Capitalism does adjust itself well in this way as monetary rewards is structured based on skill, entitlement and workload.
That is why upping the wage at the lowest levels historically has had a trickle up effect. At least here in Scandinavia.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Who said that? I just said the argument that there will be a productivity increase is not a sound one.
As for what lazy people deserve or dont, thats not for me to decide. I think a true guaranteed income would be nice as it would get the people who really just dont want to work or have no contributing bone in their body out of the work force, they wont exactly be living in riches but thats obviously a lifestyle they arent willing to work towards anyway so no loss.
boiled goose
good with gravy
On a macro scale, increasing wages is good for the economy.
Many extremely profitable corporations pay their employees terrible wages forcing them to work multiple jobs and sometimes even receive welfare.
Society is paying for these costs. In essence society is subsidizing the profits of these companies. Look at executive pay now. Look at increasing wealth inequality. All the wealth is getting funneled to the top.
The marginal benefit of a dollar given to a poor person or a rich person is different. Almost every single dollar given to a poor person will be spent back into the economy.
Companies hire not because wages are low. Companies hire when they need labor. They need labor when people are buying their shit.
Is 15 the right number? I don't know. Is it too high? Hahaha no. It's still a borderline survival wage.
Many extremely profitable corporations pay their employees terrible wages forcing them to work multiple jobs and sometimes even receive welfare.
Society is paying for these costs. In essence society is subsidizing the profits of these companies. Look at executive pay now. Look at increasing wealth inequality. All the wealth is getting funneled to the top.
The marginal benefit of a dollar given to a poor person or a rich person is different. Almost every single dollar given to a poor person will be spent back into the economy.
Companies hire not because wages are low. Companies hire when they need labor. They need labor when people are buying their shit.
Is 15 the right number? I don't know. Is it too high? Hahaha no. It's still a borderline survival wage.
Pretty sure this is from studies and workforces that think happier employee = better employee. Someone that doesn't have to worry about if they can afford room and board and basic needs like food will thus will be more focused. Presumably a part of this is also in that hiring would decrease and so maintaining the job is more important.
Of course there will always be people that just take advantage of it, but that doesn't mean everyone would.
BearFlexington
Member
This is the best answer I've read on this subject and it makes sense to me.
bigmit3737
Member
Astral/H3X
Member
Is 7.25 the cost of living *anywhere*?
Because we already see that the states are in oh such a hurry to set appropriate minimum wages.
It isn't? People are just discussing the question posed.
No, that's not really what he's saying.
He's simply saying that adhering to a new minimum, though higher, isn't going to have major effects on worker productivity. I don't think it's a particularly bad point.
But to answer his question, to the best of my limited knowledge on the subject, is that people will have more buying power and thus infuse more money into the economy... So it's not necessarily that the workers will be more productive, but that these workers will stimulate the economy more through increased spending.
Why a $15 minimum wage won't unleash jobs Armageddon
Jeff Spross - April 6, 2016
TL;DR - Don't Panic!
Jeff Spross - April 6, 2016
TL;DR - Don't Panic!
Because the thinking is that it's their fault (for not studying, working hard enough, bootstraps, etc.). The thing these people don't realize is that those people currently saying that kind of shit are the poor of the future. We're all fucked.
It's a straw man, though. People should be able to feed their families if they work 40 hours a week. Period. I don't care about productivity or other distractions.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Automation is going to crush minimum wage jobs so none of this matters.
Nah 2022, and we're doing it in increments.
It's the smart thing to do.
Min should be higher everywhere but not universally $15.
There's a big difference in living wages between Cali and Oklahoma.
Hire.
His first argument was that raising the minimum wage would result in lower revenue for these corporations.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This was what I was thinking reading the OP.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Giving rich people more money Creates jobs is a right wing lie.
Jobs are created when people are buying your goods and hiring people will increase your profits.
Ironically it's a fundamental misunderstanding of capitalism. If wages are low, you won't hire more people. You will hire just enough to maximize your profits.
LegendofLex
Member
$15/hr is lower than the cost of living for a two-parent family with one child anywhere in the country.
http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2015/living-wage-map/
TarpitCarnivore
Member
People keep saying this, but society adapts. We've done it plenty of times before.
McDonald's president on why pay raises are making their employees work better
http://fortune.com/2016/03/09/mcdonalds-wages/
http://fortune.com/2016/03/09/mcdonalds-wages/
boiled goose
good with gravy
I don't believe you can accuse us of having zero understanding of businesses, economy, inability to play through scenarios in our head when you completely fail to account for the proven fact that when families of lower income receive additional income, they inject the money back into the economy.
*Turnover rate decreases with increased wages.
I don't know why I said retention.
They will get hired when newly injected money spurs growth.
No.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Oh for sure, but I think the idea of a living supplied via a minimum working wage is going to be outdated REAL soon.
This is talking specifically about NY (which is $12.50 outside of NYC) and CA, not nationwide.
A living wage should be what it takes for one person. Not three.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Maybe the Walton family should share some of that 149 billion dollar windfall they've "earned"? I mean they, a handful of people, are worth more than the economies of many nations on earth. That they can't absorb the rise in a 15 dollar minimum wage is bullshit of the highest order. You've played yourself.
There's a big caveat that California and New York have many of the biggest cities in the country with low unemployment rate to begin with which will really benefit from minimum wage increase and the rest of the state will ride their coattails.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/states/06/locations
When you look at areas where the most jobs are it's closer than you might think. Or more to the point when you look at areas where the jobs are the $15 minimum in CA may not even be enough (even if you exclude an outlier like San Francisco) and it falls in line with a lot more of the country than you might expect.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's why the federal minimum wage is misleading: its higher in places where cost of living is way higher.
Angelus Errare
Banned
You two know that quote was by FDR when minimum wage was established in the US right?...
Sectorseven
Member
Wouldn't bumping it up to $15 put a lot of people in a weird position where they're making more money, but not little enough to receive subsidies like food stamps and Medicaid?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It doesn't come close to bridging that gap. $9.25 instead of $7.25 in a place that costs twice as much as your average city doesn't help.
Your math here is off. Average wages at Walmart may currently be $13.38, but that includes many workers making the current minimum wage offset by workers in management and corporate (if corporate is included in the calc). Raising the minimum wage to $15 wouldn't raise walmarts average wage to $15, because the workers currently making more wouldn't have their hourly wage reduced to $15.
Not sure what the new average would be, but it would certainly be higher than $15.
It should be $15 and no less. Higher in major cities. Businesses would explode from higher consumer spending power. Businesses are shutting down because people aren't spending money. Period. If they cut hours or raise prices to offset costs, theyre only fucking themselves. The highest paid CEOs in large companies need to take a pay cut. Their salaries have ballooned hundreds of times in the past few decades. The problem is not just wage, however, it's laws that enable large businesses to take advantage of their workforce (and government) and ignorant people that believe that certain minimum wage workers don't deserve a living wage.
...Is this in for increasing the minimum wage, or what will happen as human costs to labor only increase?
I'm glad that ridiculous post got called out.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Would those above minimum wage get equal increases to buying power?
BTW - CA's $15 minimum applies to businesses with more than 26 employees.
This is going to happen no matter what the minimum wage is. It's as inevitable as cars replacing the horse and carriage and the Internet replacing newspapers. Using the threat of automation as some sort of deterrent against raising the minimum wage is silly. Not saying you're doing that but I've certainly heard that argument before.
This is going to happen no matter what the minimum wage is. It's as inevitable as cars replacing the horse and carriage and the Internet replacing newspapers. Using the threat of automation as some sort of deterrent against raising the minimum wage is silly. Not saying you're doing that but I've certainly heard that argument before.
None of this sort of talk is very fair. Obviously the argument being made is not that the Waltons shouldn't take less money while paying their employees more. The argument is that if they were forced to pay their employees more they'd instead hire fewer people and spend that money on other things that perhaps don't provide as many jobs.
This is not a dispute that you can easily resolve with really generic arguments - this is an empirical question. Obviously there is a minimum wage that is so high that it is worse than having a not-so-high minimum wage (a $100/hr wage would probably be a disaster). Likewise it's pretty clear that differences in bargaining power between employees and employers can mean that there is a minimum wage that is better than a lower minimum wage. But exactly how high of a minimum wage is best, for whatever plausible sense of "best" you want to use, is going to be a really hard question, and to my knowledge there's not a whole lot of useful work that sheds light on how $15/hr would work out in many parts of the country.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
It's part of the reason I hate transferring this burden to corporations.
Problem is SOMETHING has to be done, and the US isn't ready for some kind of guaranteed minimum income. So this is how it's gonna go for now.
That being said similar to how I dislike healthcare being tied to working I also hate livable wage being tied to that as well.
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