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[Elandyll]

I don't disagree, but that is the end of it. So far it seems like that neat idea that completely ignores the actual city of Detroit.

?

The beginning of the PGW trailer (which features a ton of diversity btw, just not as its main character) features a few shots of Detroit before its "rise" with the robotic industry.

The PGW trailer starts with old foundries, houses in ruins and a home with a "for sale" sign linking to the Housing market depression.

The current demo/ trailer is about 1 roof hostage situation.

Again, I just don't see how the current amount of footage/ game elements available allow to make the kind of broad statements made in this thread tbh, whether about diversity or being true to current Detroit (for a game which appears to be situated pretty far in the future after a city revival).

 

[sn00zer]

?

The beginning of the PGW trailer (which features a ton of diversity btw, just not as its main character) features a few shots of Detroit before its "rise" with the robotic industry.

The PGW trailer starts with old foundries, houses in ruins and a home with a "for sale" sign linking to the Housing market depression.

The current demo/ trailer is about 1 roof hostage situation.

Again, I just don't see how the current amount of footage/ game elements available allow to make the kind of broad statements made in this thread tbh, whether about diversity or being true to current Detroit (for a game which appears to be situated pretty far in the future after a city revival).

So far the media presented does a poor job of representing Detroit especially compared to Watch_Dogs which has emphasized its San Fran setting in all released media.

 

[Messofanego]

As a very white guy who works in Detroit it is weird the game based on Detroit has not shown media presenting black protagonists.

I am one of those people that does not think that every game needs a diverse cast especially in historical settings. This is largely due to if people could only get around on horses you wouldnt expect a lot of diversity within communities at the time (even in fictional settings) and most countries throughout that world would be separated and not mix as much. Of course larger cities would have a lot of diversity but it makes sense in my mind that lack of transportation would result in peoples being separated mostly by distance. That does not mean I wouldn't mind playing characters of other races.This same logic is why I LOVE diversity in futuristic setting because it makes sense that the human race, not bound by limitations of travel would be much much more diverse.

ANYWAY

I drive to and from Detroit everyday and work with many people of different races, but by and large the population of Detroit is primarily black. I don't care how much gentrification you put into Detroit it would still be predominantly black, in the same way hipsters moving into "The Mission" in San Fran did not suddenly make hispanic people disappear.

A game literally called Detroit should have black main characters end of story. If they have a black MC and chose to concentrate on showing white characters, that is a decision they made and can be chastised for it.

So far nothing about Detroit actually looks like Detroit. The setting is just a setting, there is no "heart of Detroit" in that game. Cage even said himself he chose Detroit due to its manufacturing history, which has meant nothing in the last 50 years of Detroit history.

The game is clearly being made from an outsiders perspective of not only Detroit, but Michigan as well. Nothing about the game indicates it is set in Detroit or Michigan outside of the skyline.

Game looks great, but the devs should shoulder some responsibility if they chose to call the game Detroit.



Better Maid can go fuck themselves since they changed their oil to palm oil. UNCLE RAY'S ALL THE WAY!

Does David Cage think America is still in the 50s? It's clear he did zero research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

 

[Sickboy007]

Does David Cage think America is still in the 50s? It's clear he did zero research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

I think he has access to Wikipedia! If you're interested in knowing why he chose Detroit, here's him talking about it and the location scouting they did.

 

[Chronospherics]

Yeah it was always egregious whenever the trailers continued to center Whiteness.

And David Cage & Co. can be quite bad when it comes to non-White and non-American people:

• Navajo people in BTS is offensively stereotypical and mischaracterizes actual Navajo culture. Simple research could have avoided that.
• The CIA mission in Somali similarly relies on racist imagery of Somali people, in which White Americans invade and kill without much reflection.
• The Middle Eastern chapter also relies on stereotypes where no one in the mission gets any dialogue or representation
• Then of course the black mechanic in Heavy Rain that you, OP, mentioned

This doesn't mean Cage & Co. should continue doing Whiteness, but instead do the fucking proper research and/or hire people who can help or consult with it, but I am already rolling my eyes in how much Cage & Co. are putting whiteness front and center in terms of dialogue in the first trailer, and just in general in the second.

And now we of course have Kara and Connor, the two White people in the center of a narrative about oppression in Detroit. Maybe it'll get better with more reveals, we'll see.

I don't think the Navajo mission was intended to be representative of the population, it even specifies in the mission that it's 'rare that Navajo live like this'. I think people are looking into his games with a mind to label them as racist, to be honest. Probably because of something that appeared in one of his earlier games.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Cage talking some words about Detroit as a setting in text form.

"It was an industrial giant in the 20th century and then it went through very hard times," Cage explained. "And now it's trying to be reborn again somehow. ... This idea of being very high and losing everything and coming back is so strong and it's such a human story.

Cage also mentioned its history of racial issues, in addition to Motown and "all the great artists" that contribute to the city's culture. However, Cage said you can't write about a city without going there. He noted that you could research it on the Internet and find pictures on Google, but you don't "feel the place, you don't know the people" that way.

"We visited the abandoned factories, the abandoned churches that everybody knows," Cage said. "But at the same time we saw some wonderful things, we met some incredible people. The Fox Theatre, for example, in Detroit is one of the most amazing places I've seen.

"The people there are full of energy and they're struggling and they're fighting, but they're revitalizing this city in a very interesting way. And all this combined, we came back from Detroit, thinking, 'Yeah, this is the place where we want this story to happen.'"

 

[Dr. Buni]

Characters in games shouldn't be black for the sake of being black and developers shouldn't have to make a character black to satisfy people that aren't involved in the creative process, haven't contributed to the games overall vision or to meet some arbitrary quota of lead minorities. I say that as a black man. I know not everyone shares the same opinion as me but that shit is tired.

And the X-Men were meant to analogs that were relatable to readers of any race, them featuring a smaller number of minority characters shouldn't change that... And a large number of their roster are of various ethnicities, sexual inclination or don't even appear to be human. You could probably apply your argument to the movies more easily but still, there are a number of characters in those films that aren't white.

That is just your opinion. I'd rather have characters being black for the sake of being black than not having black characters at all.

 

[Messofanego]

Cage talking some words about Detroit as a setting in text form.

"It was an industrial giant in the 20th century and then it went through very hard times," Cage explained. "And now it's trying to be reborn again somehow. ... This idea of being very high and losing everything and coming back is so strong and it's such a human story.

Cage also mentioned its history of racial issues, in addition to Motown and "all the great artists" that contribute to the city's culture. However, Cage said you can't write about a city without going there. He noted that you could research it on the Internet and find pictures on Google, but you don't "feel the place, you don't know the people" that way.

"We visited the abandoned factories, the abandoned churches that everybody knows," Cage said. "But at the same time we saw some wonderful things, we met some incredible people. The Fox Theatre, for example, in Detroit is one of the most amazing places I've seen.

"The people there are full of energy and they're struggling and they're fighting, but they're revitalizing this city in a very interesting way. And all this combined, we came back from Detroit, thinking, 'Yeah, this is the place where we want this story to happen.'"

Thanks for this. So, when do we get to see the fruits of what they've checked up in the game, like the racial issues and other aspects he mentions?

 

[Lime]

I don't think the Navajo mission was intended to be representative of the population, it even specifies in the mission that it's 'rare that Navajo live like this'. I think people are looking into his games with a mind to label them as racist, to be honest. Probably because of something that appeared in one of his earlier games.

Here's what's wrong with the Navajo section:

• The Navajo family members are the silliest sort of “noble savages” dressed up in a thin veneer of modernity. The Navajo culture is almost entirely ignored.
  
• At one point, Cage gives us a flashback of tepees burning, despite the fact that the Navajo never lived in tepees.
  
• The elder of the two sons looks more Italian than American Indian, and both boys sound lily white. No trace of the extremely distinct Navajo accent can be heard—and this is a family living deep in the middle of nowhere. The boys speak Navajo, something that’s pretty rare these days among younger generations.
  
• There’s even a moment where the boys take Jodie to a place “no white man’s ever been before” which, honestly, is just the worst sort of nonsense. As if the American government hasn’t been all over indigenous lands. No, in Cage’s bizarre vision of the American Indian, it’s all mysticism and horses and Jodie the white savior.

 

[TheYanger]

This detroit is a fictional great blooming city with androids. It makes sense that there isnt the same demographic in this city.

Also there were multiple black people in the trailers so i dont get the problem.

No, no it doesn't make sense. This isn't some fantasy representation, this is an intentionally near future representation of a real place, what's the point in setting the game in a real city at all if you're not trying to bank on the believability of it?

You wouldn't set your game in New York and make it look like the Amazon would you?

 

[Salty Rice]

You guys really must hate Robocop and Deus Ex because they are not "believable" because of demographic reasons.

 

[Dick Justice]

You guys really must hate Robocop and Deus Ex because they are not "believable" because of demographic reasons.

Good old "Whataboutism".

 

[A Link to the Past]

Agreed on the first character - no excuse for that, period.

With that said...we've only seen a few minutes of the Detroit game. I'm willing to give QD the benefit of the doubt, and think you should consider it too. I'll wait to see more of the full game before passing judgment.

I think that's a pretty fair point, although I'm not going to get my hopes up that they do it right

You guys really must hate Robocop and Deus Ex because they are not "believable" because of demographic reasons.

Or we may criticize examples of whitewashing. It is possible to enjoy media while also pointing out the problems with it.

 

[lightskintwin]

You guys really must hate Robocop and Deus Ex because they are not "believable" because of demographic reasons.

I guess that's why we have this caricature.

Letitia the Trash Lady

 

[exmachina64]

Here's what's wrong with the Navajo section:

• The Navajo family members are the silliest sort of “noble savages” dressed up in a thin veneer of modernity. The Navajo culture is almost entirely ignored.
  
• At one point, Cage gives us a flashback of tepees burning, despite the fact that the Navajo never lived in tepees.
  
• The elder of the two sons looks more Italian than American Indian, and both boys sound lily white. No trace of the extremely distinct Navajo accent can be heard—and this is a family living deep in the middle of nowhere. The boys speak Navajo, something that’s pretty rare these days among younger generations.
  
• There’s even a moment where the boys take Jodie to a place “no white man’s ever been before” which, honestly, is just the worst sort of nonsense. As if the American government hasn’t been all over indigenous lands. No, in Cage’s bizarre vision of the American Indian, it’s all mysticism and horses and Jodie the white savior.

This.

 

[coughlanio]

If he had made 2/3rds of the androids black, he would have gotten shit for it too. People can't be pleased.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If he had made 2/3rds of the androids black, he would have gotten shit for it too. People can't be pleased.

Well I guess when you're stuck between "maybe you shouldn't whitewash Detroit" and "I hate games with black people", it's hard to figure out which one you should please

 

[SprachBrooks]

Civil rights and having black characters is not mutually exclusive anyway. Not sure why a game centring on civil rights has to have black characters in order to add credibility to its premise generally.

The androids are essentially robots with the capacity of developing humanised emotions; but they will never be treated like humans by virtue of them being a creation and are supposed to be predestined towards certain things. The issue of the demo examines this and that android propagates the discussion of how they are treated and what emotions they can exhibit.

It's an interesting premise regardless of representation; choosing Detroit I can understand from an industrial progression and regression perspective but we should wait to see what the overall game includes before passing judgement on the lack of characters introduced.

 

[SprachBrooks]

So our only choices are meaningless insulting token character or white guy?

Gross oversimplification here.

What we're seeing are established premises and stories; we are usually asking for better representation after the fact. I suppose the issue people have with 'diversity for the sake of diversity' is the fear they will just shoehorn in a minority character as a result of backlash, which would feel out of place if such a character wasn't intended as part of the overall story.

I can't imagine it being tokenism if they established a minority character will play a certain part before moving forward in development though.

 

[nOoblet16]

This is a story about civil rights that takes place in...Detroit . Two thirds of the playable characters are white. I guess you could make the argument that they aren't white "humans" but rather white androids so their race doesn't matter but that argument is pretty thin.

This seems like a case of appropriating the story of the civil rights movement without actually having to deal with the realities of race in america. (i.e. the mutants in X-Men)

I say all of this knowing that there's still one more character that has yet to be revealed and there's so much story we don't know.

However it's hard for me to trust David Cage to handle a story about civil rights after he did this....

Not a single person in this thread has really explained what's the deal with this character. Not even the OP bothered with it, even after being asked multiple times, instead the OP just wrote "after he did this" and posted a picture.

Did what? Don't assume everyone knows what you are thinking or talking about.

 

[Lime]

Not a single person in this thread has really explained what's the deal with this character. Not even the OP bothered with it, even after being asked multiple times, instead the OP just wrote "after he did this" and posted a picture.

Did what? Don't assume everyone knows what you are thinking or talking about.

Race in Heavy Rain

Mad Jack is the first non-white adult the player meets who offers any direct impact to the story. Based on his potential to affect the story, the amount of dialogue he has, and the extent to which the player can interact with him, he is the story's leading non-white character.

Unfortunately, he turns out to be a burly, murderous, ex-con whose only role is to aid the killer and try to kill Jayden. He conforms to the long-standing cultural trope of the menacing black thug and voices the game's only racial epithet: "cracker."

 

[BronsonLee]

Thanks for this. So, when do we get to see the fruits of what they've checked up in the game, like the racial issues and other aspects he mentions?

Hopefully when the game is actually out

 

[Sakujou]

It's hard for me to trust David Cage with a story regardless of subject matter.

this. iam sort of sick to hear the argument about "why is a certain thing x not in the game". it should be part of the game and not slapped onto the game.

its sad that a PoC or female hero cant be normally put into the game because devs and publishers are afraid that the game wont sell

 

[solidsnakeiv]

Good lord, just play the freaking game and enjoy it. Quit focusing on race so damn much, just see the characters for their personalities. It's funny that the people that are so hyper focused on race, are probably the racist themselves. This game is coming from a European studio that is probably 90% white, so naturally they probably would make games that feature more white people, because it's natural to identify that way. There is nothing racist about it. Just like most Japanese developers make most games with Asian characters.......or the programming on BET that is probably 95% black...I don't hear a cry from the black community about having more diversity in that programming, and I also don't hear other races complaining about said programming....its entertainment....enjoy it and if you don't like like it then change the damn channel or eject that disc.

 

[Infinite]

Gross oversimplification here.

What we're seeing are established premises and stories; we are usually asking for better representation after the fact. I suppose the issue people have with 'diversity for the sake of diversity' is the fear they will just shoehorn in a minority character as a result of backlash, which would feel out of place if such a character wasn't intended as part of the overall story.

I can't imagine it being tokenism if they established a minority character will play a certain part before moving forward in development though.

And that's bullshit and huge problem society has. Minorities shouldn't be out of place in anything, they are human beings like white people.

 

[Caronte]

Not a single person in this thread has really explained what's the deal with this character. Not even the OP bothered with it, even after being asked multiple times, instead the OP just wrote "after he did this" and posted a picture.

Did what? Don't assume everyone knows what you are thinking or talking about.

People are pissed because he's a villain and not an important one at that. It's like you can't use minorities as villains for some reason.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Pretty much, but it's still an extraordinarily narrow view of the city. If the entire game is like this it would be like making a game called "America" and then telling a story that only involves Delaware. Sure, it's not technically wrong, but it's kinda disingenuous. Delaware does not tell the whole story of America on its on.

i don't think it's relevant really. just because it's called Detroit doesn't mean it has to represent the entire thing top to bottom, past and future. it's just a title. i mean, the movie Philadelphia didn't represent the entirety of that city in the movie. it focused on small section of the city that narratively linked to the characters the film followed. a title is just a title. it's set in that city, that's all there really needs to be to justify it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

People are pissed because he's a villain and not an important one at that. It's like you can't use minorities as villains for some reason.

The issue is that he's basically a monster - and not monster as in he's a murderer or a rapist or whatever. He's portrayed as if he's actually a beast. In a game where the most positive portrayal of a black person was to have a black child staring at the camera for seconds without saying or doing anything, it might just be -slightly- problematic that your depiction of black people is exclusively mounted by a cartoon villain.

 

[Shiggy]

The issue is that he's basically a monster - and not monster as in he's a murderer or a rapist or whatever. He's portrayed as if he's actually a beast. In a game where the most positive portrayal of a black person was to have a black child staring at the camera for seconds without saying or doing anything, it might just be -slightly- problematic that your depiction of black people is exclusively mounted by a cartoon villain.

But it would have been ok for you if that character was white?

 

[Caronte]

The issue is that he's basically a monster - and not monster as in he's a murderer or a rapist or whatever. He's portrayed as if he's actually a beast. In a game where the most positive portrayal of a black person was to have a black child staring at the camera for seconds without saying or doing anything, it might just be -slightly- problematic that your depiction of black people is exclusively mounted by a cartoon villain.

Sure, but Fahrenheit had a black main character (a cop) who I thought was pretty good, and a gay character (I think he was the woman's neighbor) who is still one of the very few times I've not been completely embarrased by the inclusion of a gay character (I speak as a gay person, btw).

I just don't get why Cage is being singled-out here when he's done a good job about representation before. The black dude being a bad character has more to do with Cage doing a poor job in general with villains in that game, I don't really see it as racism.

 

[Lime]

i don't think it's relevant really. just because it's called Detroit doesn't mean it has to represent the entire thing top to bottom, past and future. it's just a title. i mean, the movie Philadelphia didn't represent the entirety of that city in the movie. it focused on small section of the city that narratively linked to the characters the film followed. a title is just a title. it's set in that city, that's all there really needs to be to justify it.

Non-represented identities can just never catch a break.

• "It's historical accurate, no brown or black people lived at the place in the time, so of course they're not represented"
• "it's X culture, so of course there shouldn't be non-White characters in this game"
• "it wouldn't be believable if there were non-white characters in this setting, so of course there shouldn't be any non-white character in the game
• "it's just fiction and anything goes, so of course developers don't have to represent non-white characters"
• "it just focuses on one aspect of reality, so of course non-white characters don't have to be in it"

But it would have been ok for you if that character was white?

Do white people face the century-long one-dimensional representation of them as criminal, one way of talking, beasts with superhuman-strength?

 

[Wavebossa]

Do people identify that much with their own skin colour?

The hell did I just read?

 

[Shiggy]

Do white people face the century-long one-dimensional representation of them as criminal, one way of talking, beasts with superhuman-strength?

I guess Europeans are not as aware of these American issues with black people. I know that racism against black people is a big issue in the US, but I did not know that people see them as "beasts with superhuman-strength". In that light, it is troubling. As a general point, however, minorities should also be portrayed as antagonists just as well.

The hell did I just read?

I elaborated on that later on. If you look for it, you will see that I find that statement rather odd. I am not sure if some people just lack empathy or why they cannot identify with characters in fictional work that do not look like them. Even when I am watching a movie I can still be immersed despite a character being female or black (latest example for myself: The Hateful 8). Yet, as I learnt in this thread, others seem to have great trouble with that and can only identify with a character when that looks the same as they do.

In addition, when it comes to identifying with a character, isn't the personality that is portrayed of even higher importance? How could I, for example, honestly identify with a white character that is some psychic mass murderer? Simply reducing this entire discussion to the outer appearance, gender, "race" (horrible word) is incredibly simplistic.

By the way, simply replying with "the hell did I just read" instead of engaging in a discussion is not really adding to the topic. If you disagree, you can probably voice and explain your opinion in a proper manner.

 

[Wavebossa]

I elaborated on that later on. If you look for it, you will see that I find that statement rather odd. I am not sure if some people just lack empathy or why they cannot identify with characters in fictional work that do not look like them. Even when I am watching a movie I can still be immersed despite a character being female or black (latest example for myself: The Hateful 8). Yet, as I learnt in this thread, others seem to have great trouble with that and can only identify with a character when that looks the same as they do.

In addition, when it comes to identifying with a character, isn't the personality that is portrayed of even higher importance? How could I, for example, honestly identify with a white character that is some psychic mass murderer? Simply reducing this entire discussion to the outer appearance, gender, "race" (horrible word) is incredibly simplistic.

By the way, simply replying with "the hell did I just read" instead of engaging in a discussion is not really adding to the topic. If you disagree, you can probably voice and explain your opinion in a proper manner.

You've managed to be condescending in your first paragraph while missing the point entirely. You are assuming that this entire issue boils down to the ability to immerse oneself into the game and empathize with the characters? And everyone who cannot just lacks the same empathy as you?

I can immerse myself into a game with any cast of characters, that's not the point. The people wanting representation are not just inferior people incapable of the same levels of empathy as you.

I guess all women who want more female leads in games just fail at empathizing with male characters? I can empathize with the whitest lead on earth in a video game, but that game will never be able to accurately portray the life (via protagonist) of an African American (or any other minority), and that's not his fault. He just isn't that race (or gender, or age, or nationality etc)

You honestly don't even understand the very basis of the complaint.

I guess Europeans are not as aware of these American issues with black people. I know that racism against black people is a big issue in the US, but I did not know that people see them as "beasts with superhuman-strength". In that light, it is troubling. As a general point, however, minorities should also be portrayed as antagonists just as well.

If this tiny fraction of the racial history of the US is a surprise to you, I would suggest reading up on the topic more. It will help you comprehend the discussion you are intent on having. No shade I just feel like you aren't getting it.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Non-represented identities can just never catch a break.

• "It's historical accurate, no brown or black people lived at the place in the time, so of course they're not represented"
• "it's X culture, so of course there shouldn't be non-White characters in this game"
• "it wouldn't be believable if there were non-white characters in this setting, so of course there shouldn't be any non-white character in the game
• "it's just fiction and anything goes, so of course developers don't have to represent non-white characters"
• "it just focuses on one aspect of reality, so of course non-white characters don't have to be in it"

except that isn't the case since non-white character ARE IN THE GAME in a ratio to white characters that, according to the guy i was quoting, is accurate to certain wealthy areas of Detroit...my argument is if the narrative has no connection to the poorer, non-white areas of Detroit (again, androids are an expensive commodity and so are more likely to exist within the wealthy areas) why does the ratio of white to non-white need to change? this isn't a story about Detroit. It's a story about androids set in a small area of Detroit that they narratively fit into.

 

[Lime]

except that isn't the case since non-white character ARE IN THE GAME in a ratio to white characters that, according to the guy i was quoting, is accurate to certain wealthy areas of Detroit...my argument is if the narrative has no connection to the poorer, non-white areas of Detroit (again, androids are an expensive commodity and so are more likely to exist within the wealthy areas) why does the ratio of white to non-white need to change? this isn't a story about Detroit. It's a story about androids set in a small area of Detroit that they narratively fit into.

I was just pointing out that your argument is an example of how flexible people can be in coming up with any excuse to maintain the status quo, no matter how contradictory each excuse are.

This shit always has to be justified and it is never good enough. There is always some excuse for continue to ensure white straight dudes are the dominant ones in society and media.

 

[prag16]

I was just pointing out that your argument is an example of how flexible people can be in coming up with any excuse to maintain the status quo, no matter how contradictory each excuse are.

This shit always has to be justified and it is never good enough. There is always some excuse for continue to ensure white straight dudes are the dominant ones in society and media.

I don't think it's a matter of people engaging in mental gymnastics to preserve the status quo (I'm sure there are people that do that, but not the people engaged in this discussion at the moment), certainly not with any degree of malicious intent.

It's more that a lot of people haven't taken this up as a "cause" the way others have, and when a reasonable explanation exists a lot of people will accept it. A lot of times that's justifiable, in some cases it probably isn't (and in the case of Detroit the game, the jury is still out; we haven't seen enough). But the "if you're not with us, then you're against us" type rhetoric seen in some of these recent threads with regard to race/gender representation in my opinion isn't called for.

 

[xrnzaaas]

It's their game, it's their vision. If you're offended by it then don't play it. I personally don't care about the ethnicity or a sexual orientation of my character(s) as long as the game plays nice and tells a good story.

As for the announced playable android characters, it makes sense to me that they're of the same race. It would make even more sense if they looked a lot like each other with the whole mass production of androids being based on a single human person with only slight variations so that they can be distinguished between each other.

 

[Shiggy]

You've managed to be condescending in your first paragraph while missing the point entirely. You are assuming that this entire issue boils down to the ability to immerse oneself into the game and empathize with the characters? And everyone who cannot just lacks the same empathy as you?

I can immerse myself into a game with any cast of characters, that's not the point. The people wanting representation are not just inferior people incapable of the same levels of empathy as you.

I guess all women who want more female leads in games just fail at empathizing with male characters? I can empathize with the whitest lead on earth in a video game, but that game will never be able to accurately portray the life (via protagonist) of an African American (or any other minority), and that's not his fault. He just isn't that race (or gender, or age, or nationality etc)

You honestly don't even understand the very basis of the complaint.

No, I am just referring to what I have read in this thread.

I think it is fine that minorities want representation, and you will not hear me saying that is a bad thing nor that I would dislike that in any way. I just fail to see the relation to fictional work which is not supposed to represent reality. I mean, look at this title, how would you even come up with the idea that it is supposed to accurately portray the life of African American, as you suggest?

While I agree that your point is absolutely true, and I already said something similar earlier in this thread in terms of historical events portrayed in games, II fail to understand the basis of the complaint in relation to this title.

If this tiny fraction of the racial history of the US is a surprise to you, I would suggest reading up on the topic more. It will help you comprehend the discussion you are intent on having. No shade I just feel like you aren't getting it.

I am not talking about historical events, I know about slavery and so on. While the shootings of black people are well reported in European media, I have not seen the notion of "beasts" in terms of present time - only with regard to long gone times. Thus I was not quite aware of this notion still being very common in the US. With that in mind, far more is necessary than simple representation in a video game. While I still have doubts that this notion is very common in today's America, I do not live there and cannot disprove your claim.


Anyway, I am the last person to say that a game has too many black or white people, too many females or males, too many homosexuals. As I repeatedly said, I am fine with all as long as it is fictional. Where we both agree is that it would be odd (you might say "wrong") if historical events suddenly depicted characters which do not fit in (e.g. a WW2 game where Jews are suddenly the killers).

 

[shinjimimura]

Trailers are marketing tools for a game. Keeping brown protagonists, if they exist, from potential buyers would be the stupidest marketing tool.

Honest question: why would the race of the main character have any relevance for potential buyers? Do people only buy games which feature protagonists from their own etnicity?

 

[conekiller]

Poor WraithBringer didn't stand a chance in this thread. Got banned and dogpiled for going against the narrative and using the term "reverse racism." But if he just said "racism" to describe racism against white people he would've been greeted with smarmy "Actually, you can't be racist against white people because racism requires power + prejudice" B.S. the gender studies degree crowd normally spouts after long day of making coffee for people.

I used to happily play any game that I thought looked fun, but thanks to the hatemob looking to condemn every game as racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic before they even come out I'm going to just assume any game where the protagonist or a disproportionate amount characters is female or non-white is the result of pandering to the SJW hate mob and not give them a dime.

I'm so excited to to vote straight ticket Republican this this fall, I've been a lifelong Democrat voter but the safe spaces and trigger warnings crew have surpassed the jesus freaks as the most hateful and annoying crowd in America. The behavior of the Democrat voter base on websites like GAF are directly responsible. Come on people, it's 2016! Bigots like Democrats have no place in government. Wow. I can't even...

 

[A Link to the Past]

But it would have been ok for you if that character was white?

1. It would have been more okay if the character was white because white people do not face an incredibly negative stereotype.

2. It likely wouldn't happen because, as noted, this is a specific negative stereotype that befalls black people, not white people.

Sure, but Fahrenheit had a black main character (a cop) who I thought was pretty good, and a gay character (I think he was the woman's neighbor) who is still one of the very few times I've not been completely embarrased by the inclusion of a gay character (I speak as a gay person, btw).

I just don't get why Cage is being singled-out here when he's done a good job about representation before. The black dude being a bad character has more to do with Cage doing a poor job in general with villains in that game, I don't really see it as racism.

Touching upon villains, we have:

Spoiler

1. Scott Shelby - His villainy does not associate with a racial stereotype
2. Blake - His villainy is stereotypically "bad cop", but this is not exclusive to white cops
3. Kramer - Probably the second most white-stereotype villain, but that is more through the lack of white-stereotyped villains
4. Baker - Probably the most in this case, though I find it more a Colin Mochrie stereotype.
5. Paco - The other non-white villain, and a solid runner-up for "most racially stereotyped character in the game."

The villains are a bit extreme and sometimes silly, but the non-white villains (the two that I remember anyway) are extreme racial stereotypes, and are in a class of their own as far as stereotypes go.

 

[Ashodin]

...and he also had Cole in Beyond: Two Souls.

Pretty much the opposite of the black character in Heavy Rain. Not to mention the only likable and good person in that game.

I advice to wait before judging.

Strand? Is that you?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Honest question: why would the race of the main character have any relevance for potential buyers? Do people only buy games which feature protagonists from their own etnicity?

It has been shown that a lack of positive roles for people of non-white ethnicities has a negative effect on non-white kids, to where it affects their self-image. Aside from that, constantly making games about white people, and representing white people to greater degrees and greater frequency than they are in actual reality makes for a very homogenized and unnatural "game" world.

Poor WraithBringer didn't stand a chance in this thread. Got banned and dogpiled for going against the narrative and using the term "reverse racism." But if he just said "racism" to describe racism against white people he would've been greeted with smarmy "Actually, you can't be racist against white people because racism requires power + prejudice" B.S. the gender studies degree crowd normally spouts after long day of making coffee for people.

I used to happily play any game that I thought looked fun, but thanks to the hatemob looking to condemn every game as racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic before they even come out I'm going to just assume any game where the protagonist or a disproportionate amount characters is female or non-white is the result of pandering to the SJW hate mob and not give them a dime.

I'm so excited to to vote straight ticket Republican this this fall, I've been a lifelong Democrat voter but the safe spaces and trigger warnings crew have surpassed the jesus freaks as the most hateful and annoying crowd in America. The behavior of the Democrat voter base on websites like GAF are directly responsible. Come on people, it's 2016! Bigots like Democrats have no place in government. Wow. I can't even...

lol, you alt-right anime fans crack me up.

 

[IrishNinja]

i totally appreciate OP's point...but this is Quantic. this is pretty much how he usually portrays americans

 

[BlastProcessing]

Poor WraithBringer didn't stand a chance in this thread. Got banned and dogpiled for going against the narrative and using the term "reverse racism." But if he just said "racism" to describe racism against white people he would've been greeted with smarmy "Actually, you can't be racist against white people because racism requires power + prejudice" B.S. the gender studies degree crowd normally spouts after long day of making coffee for people.

I used to happily play any game that I thought looked fun, but thanks to the hatemob looking to condemn every game as racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic before they even come out I'm going to just assume any game where the protagonist or a disproportionate amount characters is female or non-white is the result of pandering to the SJW hate mob and not give them a dime.

I'm so excited to to vote straight ticket Republican this this fall, I've been a lifelong Democrat voter but the safe spaces and trigger warnings crew have surpassed the jesus freaks as the most hateful and annoying crowd in America. The behavior of the Democrat voter base on websites like GAF are directly responsible. Come on people, it's 2016! Bigots like Democrats have no place in government. Wow. I can't even...

 

[Wanda/Wander]

Poor WraithBringer didn't stand a chance in this thread. Got banned and dogpiled for going against the narrative and using the term "reverse racism." But if he just said "racism" to describe racism against white people he would've been greeted with smarmy "Actually, you can't be racist against white people because racism requires power + prejudice" B.S. the gender studies degree crowd normally spouts after long day of making coffee for people.

I used to happily play any game that I thought looked fun, but thanks to the hatemob looking to condemn every game as racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic before they even come out I'm going to just assume any game where the protagonist or a disproportionate amount characters is female or non-white is the result of pandering to the SJW hate mob and not give them a dime.

I'm so excited to to vote straight ticket Republican this this fall, I've been a lifelong Democrat voter but the safe spaces and trigger warnings crew have surpassed the jesus freaks as the most hateful and annoying crowd in America. The behavior of the Democrat voter base on websites like GAF are directly responsible. Come on people, it's 2016! Bigots like Democrats have no place in government. Wow. I can't even...

I sincerely don't know if this post is satire.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

i totally appreciate OP's point...but this is Quantic. this is pretty much how he usually portrays americans

This is too accurate. Of the acting and writing of David Cage games I mean. Not Americans.

 

[sn00zer]

So all these people in Michigan....does that make us Michigaffers?
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haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Hahs]

...but dude, it's not present day - obviously something happened to the demographics...but at the same time, are you basing this off that trailer that doesn't focus on anyone else but the two droids and little girl...k!