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[Royal_Phalanx]

The general population across Europe must be losing patience with shit like this now happening on a weekly basis.

It's time for real solutions to get this stuff sorted, the current plan of putting the heads in the sand and wishing this will disappear is not going to be tolerated much longer.

Who's putting their heads in the sand now? New laws are always being proposed recently. How to deal with migrants with criminal pasts needs some nuance IMO, I feel because for work migration at least, I feel for people who have previously made some bad choices whose pasts are truly in the past and have got back on the right path and haven't done anything serious should still be considered for work in another country. Asylum is a different thing altogether, though. The government recently implemented tough new asylum laws, and many similar governments also have, if that doesn't suggest that Europe is learning from its mistakes then I don't know what else will.

 

[Square2015]

Same idea as a grenade. A grenade, after all, fragments into hundreds of shards of metal. Surrounding a bomb with screws and nails won't disintegrate them, but will cause them to be launched at a high velocity to cause the most collateral damage.

Like the Palestinian suicide bombers do. I hope Germany doesn't have to start dealing with that shit.

 

[Nokterian]

The general population across Europe must be losing patience with shit like this now happening on a weekly basis.

It's time for real solutions to get this stuff sorted, the current plan of putting the heads in the sand and wishing this will disappear is not going to be tolerated much longer.

I am not losing patience..also these thing cannot be prevented. Seeing how nearly every country in the EU wants to do mass surveillance,removing rights of people is not the solution but country's like Belgium are already doing this removing privacy and anonymity in the classic words 'terrorism' but not thinking clearly what there doing. This is something unfortunate to live with, when it happens off course i feel bad for the decease and the family but you know i need to keep going with my own life and keep an eye on this everyday or i will go crazy.

 

[SporeCrawler]

The general population across Europe must be losing patience with shit like this now happening on a weekly basis.

It's time for real solutions to get this stuff sorted, the current plan of putting the heads in the sand and wishing this will disappear is not going to be tolerated much longer.

blind actionism ala trump is not doing the victims any justice.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I am not losing patience..also these thing cannot be prevented. Seeing how nearly every country in the EU wants to do mass surveillance,removing rights of people is not the solution but country's like Belgium are already doing this removing privacy and anonymity in the classic words 'terrorism' but not thinking clearly what there doing. This is something unfortunate to live with, when it happens off course i feel bad for the decease and the family but you know i need to keep going with my own life and keep an eye on this everyday or i will go crazy.

It's hard to remember that EU countries are fast removing civil liberties in response. Unless you want to go full on Trump governments can only do the best they can with limited resources. This whole 'heads in the sand' nonsense needs to stop. Governments' heads have been firmly out of the sand in response for some time now. Hell, even Sweden has U-turned, and the discourse there has changed completely. The Sweden Democrats are getting almost everything they've asked for.

 

[Shiggy]

At least only the attacker died. Sadly, we'll be seeing more of these attacks in future.

 

[Nightbird]

This guy wanted to blow up a music festival?


Okay now I'm starting to worry because I'm going to one too in two weeks. Entry is free, and as far as I remember there is just light security there.

Many people from all over the region are coming. The ideal goal for another attack like that :/

 

[SporeCrawler]

For months polls have not been in her favor. According to those polls about 60% and more are dissatified with her or want her gone. In recent weeks satisfaction with her and her party, the CDU, rose a little again. But that will very likely reverse now. Her being reelected next year will imo depend on how she will handle the current situation and if the situation eases or not. It has never been remotely as bad as now. I really don't know how she could keep on going, hardly budging, as she did before despite ever growing and imo deserved criticism. We will see...

But then I just read this here:

http://www.politico.eu/article/in-troubled-times-germans-still-look-to-angela-merkel-munich-attack-refugee-isil/

An article that claims that Angela is apparently more popular than ever...

Oh seriously? The only real scenario where merkel looses is when SPD Linke and Grüne get a coalition together. All those parties support a liberal assylum policy. The option that the afd wons the elections will require them to get more than 50% which aint happening.

In other words, most likely scenario is that merkel will get 35ish and will get to choose from SPD, green and FDP

Also I have never seen that merkel has a dissaproval rating of 60+

 

[norinrad]

Will this ever end?

At some point yes, but for now we just have to live it with. At least it will change the political landscape and for the better I hope.

 

[Baki]

I see. ISIS are sly cunts. Trying to stir up local unrest between natives and refugees. I can definitely see people playing into their hands...at the same time, German authorities seem far more sensible than others. So maybe not so effective...I hope.

 

[mercenar1e]

Will this ever end?

unfortunately i believe this is the new Germany.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

This guy wanted to blow up a music festival?


Okay now I'm starting to worry because I'm going to one too in two weeks. Entry is free, and as far as I remember there is just light security there.

Many people from all over the region are coming. The ideal goal for another attack like that :/

Fear lets the terrorists win. Events like this are still extremely unlikely, especially since security will be beefed up. This will end and terrorism will hopefully once again become an extraordinary and rare event if the war in Syria gets resolved and ISIS is destroyed. ISIS has been committing a huge amount of terrorist acts. Sooner we can take out those fuckers the better.

 

[SporeCrawler]

At some point yes, but for now we just have to live it with. At least it will change the political landscape and for the better I hope.

What would be your ideal political landscape?

 

[Des0lar]

Hasn't anybody posted this yet?
According to SZ:

Der Asylantrag des Mannes sei vor einem Jahr abgelehnt worden, seitdem sei er geduldet gewesen.
Er sei wegen zweier Suizidversuche bereits in einer psychiatrischen Klinik gewesen, so Innenminister Herrmann.

Asylum was denied one year ago, he was being allowed to stay for now. (Probably means he would be forced back home after Syria was declared safe, correct me if I'm wrong)

The perpetrator has committed two suicide attempts and has been admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

Personal opinion time:
People laugh at the guy saying that these refugees living in limbo with nothing to do and no prospects is one of the problems right now, but it is known that having no occupation is one of many factors causing anxiety and depression.
This refugee crisis is a multi faceted issue and while I do agree that something needs to be done, it requires a very careful approach. These are not issues that you can solve with blanket bans and legislation, like the far-right wants you to think. There are no "easy" solutions. What would have been needed from the beginning was a clear system to support and implement these people in some kind of work, even if it's just voluntary service. Get them to do something.

 

[ElTorro]

Fear lets the terrorists win. Events like this are still extremely unlikely, especially since security will be beefed up. This will end and terrorism will hopefully once again become an extraordinary and rare event if the war in Syria gets resolved and ISIS is destroyed. ISIS has been committing a huge amount of terrorist acts. Sooner we can take out those fuckers the better.

A joint military campaign against ISIS with boots on the ground would probably destroy the organization in a few weeks; that's at least what I read from military people with experience in the region. That defeat would probably also severely compromise the effectiveness of their propaganda, which is based on their success and their claim to being a caliphate. The major downside is that we would have to keep a military presence in the region for a long time afterwards, with all the consequences that would come with it. It's a bit hard to judge whether in sum this would lead to a increase or decline of Islamism-inspired attacks around the globe.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Hasn't anybody posted this yet?
According to SZ:



Personal opinion time:
People laugh at the guy saying that these refugees living in limbo with nothing to do and no prospects is one of the problems right now, but it is known that having no occupation is one of many factors causing anxiety and depression.
This refugee crisis is a multi faceted issue and while I do agree that something needs to be done, it requires a very careful approach. These are not issues that you can solve with blanket bans and legislation, like the far-right wants you to think. There are no "easy" solutions. What would have been needed from the beginning was a clear system to support and implement these people in some kind of work, even if it's just voluntary service. Get them to do something.

while I do agree with this comment sometimes it still wont matter.
The axe attacker from wuerzburg was actually doing work as an apprentice in a bakery.

 

[The_Joker]

There was also an Iranian-German who stabbed down two passers-by down in a pedestrian zone in the German town of Göttingen:

http://www.goettinger-tageblatt.de/Goettingen/Uebersicht/Blutige-Messerstecherei-in-Goettinger-Innenstadt?site=desktop
(link only in German)

It completely flew under the radar, probably because of the other bigger attacks.

Artikel veröffentlicht: Samstag, 15.01.2011 14:15 Uhr
Artikel aktualisiert: Sonntag, 16.01.2011 17:21 Uhr

stop trying to make it worse than it already is

 

[CyclopsRock]

I see. ISIS are sly cunts. Trying to stir up local unrest between natives and refugees. I can definitely see people playing into their hands...at the same time, German authorities seem far more sensible than others. So maybe not so effective...I hope.

Is there any reason to think that this is a false flag attack by ISIS, as opposed to just an *actual* refugee conducting the attack?

 

[SporeCrawler]

A joint military campaign against ISIS with boots on the ground would probably destroy the organization in a few weeks; that's at least what I read from military people with experience in the region. That defeat would probably also severely compromise the effectiveness of their propaganda, which is based on their success and their claim to being a caliphate. The major downside is that we would have to keep a military presence in the region for a long time afterwards, with all the consequences that would come with it. It's a bit hard to judge whether in sum this would lead to a increase or decline of Islamism-inspired attacks around the globe.

I think the problem is that you dont want to destabilze the region even more. Why did ISIS happen in the first place. It was a. The Iraqi war and b. The syrian crisis. The former was a fuck up by the USA and the latter was an event where the west clearly had played a part.

 

[Nightbird]

Fear lets the terrorists win. Events like this are still extremely unlikely, especially since security will be beefed up. This will end and terrorism will hopefully once again become an extraordinary and rare event if the war in Syria gets resolved and ISIS is destroyed. ISIS has been committing a huge amount of terrorist acts. Sooner we can take out those fuckers the better.

I hope you're right.
I really don't want to fear, especially since I am also preaching to stay calm and not get ahead of ourselves, but with these events happening more often here in Germany the "How long until it happens in my town/area?" thought starts to show itself more often too.

But I get it. I need to remain calm.

 

[KingSnake]

Oh, fuck. It was a bomb after all. This is terrible.

Strange situation. On one hand sending someone back to Syria now is quite cruel, on the other hand allowing somebody to stay after he had his asylum request rejected is like looking for troubles.

Also the people with psychiatric issues must be somehow better managed.

A joint military campaign against ISIS with boots on the ground would probably destroy the organization in a few weeks; that's at least what I read from military people with experience in the region. That defeat would probably also severely compromise the effectiveness of their propaganda, which is based on their success and their claim to being a caliphate. The major downside is that we would have to keep a military presence in the region for a long time afterwards, with all the consequences that would come with it. It's a bit hard to judge whether in sum this would lead to a increase or decline of Islamism-inspired attacks around the globe.

I still think this is the only solution against ISIS in the long run, but there seems not to be too much support for this action.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Is there any reason to think that this is a false flag attack by ISIS, as opposed to just an *actual* refugee conducting the attack?

It's not inconceivable that ISIS could have sent this guy to hide in refugee communities and perform an attack. ISIS would love for Western populations to hate Muslims, it drives people into their arms and it fuels their 'us vs them' propaganda. Also you couldn't sent him back to Syria because of laws. The government was probably going to send him back once the war ended. It's also why no Western country that values human rights conventions deports people to countries where they face the death penalty and torture. If we as a society believe that the death penalty is wrong, then it's also wrong to knowingly send someone to their death.

Information has come out that this guy tried to commit suicide repeatedly and was previously in psychiatric care, interestingly. Don't know if this changes the motive or not.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

No, it really isn't. I suggest you learn about terrorist activity in Europe in the 1970s and 1980s.

I guesses I worded it wrong. I meant in the recent years. It really has not been like this for a while. It's getting really scary. Nice, axe attack, München, machete attack, now this one, others posted a stabbing or two here and most of them by Syrian refugees. Something is really wrong here.

I'm definitely fearing that The Netherlands where I live is not going to stay as safe as it is now. Hope I am very wrong.

 

[Kevtones]

Every German person I've ever met has been nothing short of friendly and courteous and altogether awesome.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

According to the BBC the migrant influx is largely over now because of the Turkey deal.

 

[ElTorro]

I think the problem is that you dont want to destabilze the region even more. Why did ISIS happen in the first place. It was a. The Iraqi war and b. The syrian crisis. The former was a fuck up by the USA and the latter was an event where the west clearly had played a part.

There is a good argument to be made that leaving the region destabilized it the most, since it left a power vacuum similar to when Saddam Hussein was removed. That's why we'd have to keep a military presence there for a long time, should we decide to send troops. This would have to be combined with a vision for the future of the region that takes its ethnic conflicts into account; something that was not done after the Iraq war. In any case, it would require a long commitment, which I don't think voters are ready to make at this point.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Curious as to how he even know how to make bombs

 

[Milly Osworth]

Something drastic needs to be done. I dont want to live in a europe where this is normal.

 

[Karu]

This is happening now and people already talk about evil killer games (and to be clear, that's the least of my concerns but illustrates how stupid this is) and removing people's right (haven't heard much here, though, officially). Yout gotta love this... I'm german and this is all awful, but how no one sees that a lot of our "solutions" are straight out of the garbage bin, I do really, really not know.

 

[Weckum]

while I do agree with this comment sometimes it still wont matter.
The axe attacker from wuerzburg was actually doing work as an apprentice in a bakery.

But wasn't that attack because of fight between him and a woman?

 

[ElTorro]

But wasn't that attack because of fight between him and a woman?

That was the machete attacker, not the axe attacker.

 

[Maedre]

I believe there is only one way to achieve peace in this region is to create a new prosperous secular Islamic state Like turkey was with a strong economy.
Controlled and governed by the UN. With a UN army. A complete new beginning and concept.
Free speech and believe should be mandatory and and granted. Strict rules against anyone who tries to put religion and corruption above.
Education should be priority number one.
We the people of planet earth could use this New Democratic and stable country. 100% renewable energy and perfectly new infrastructure would be part of this.

The problem is clearly the financial part of the story. But without a vision this part of the world will be doomed for the next 100 years.

 

[Clockwork5]

I believe there is only one way to achieve peace in this region is to create a new prosperous secular Islamic state Like turkey was with a strong economy.
Controlled and governed by the UN. With a UN army. A complete new beginning and concept.
Free speech and believe should be mandatory and and granted. Strict rules against anyone who tries to put religion and corruption above.
Education should be priority number one.
We the people of planet earth could use this New Democratic and stable country. 100% renewable energy and perfectly new infrastructure would be part of this.

The problem is clearly the financial part of the story. But without a vision this part of the world will be doomed for the next 100 years.

If that's the only way we are screwed since we don't live in a fantasy.

 

[Ac30]

A joint military campaign against ISIS with boots on the ground would probably destroy the organization in a few weeks; that's at least what I read from military people with experience in the region. That defeat would probably also severely compromise the effectiveness of their propaganda, which is based on their success and their claim to being a caliphate. The major downside is that we would have to keep a military presence in the region for a long time afterwards, with all the consequences that would come with it. It's a bit hard to judge whether in sum this would lead to a increase or decline of Islamism-inspired attacks around the globe.

I think the current approach to fighting ISIS is the correct one. The US and others can support the Iraqi ground forces and the kurds, but ultimately they must take their own land back; doing so will strengthen their own forces and give them a sense of self-determination in the future. The last thing they need is Iraq war II. My real fear is post war violence between the Iraqi government and the kurds...

 

[Maedre]

If that's the only way we are screwed since we don't live in a fantasy.

Then we are screwed.

 

[metareferential]

I believe there is only one way to achieve peace in this region is to create a new prosperous secular Islamic state Like turkey was with a strong economy.
Controlled and governed by the UN. With a UN army. A complete new beginning and concept.
Free speech and believe should be mandatory and and granted. Strict rules against anyone who tries to put religion and corruption above.
Education should be priority number one.
We the people of planet earth could use this New Democratic and stable country. 100% renewable energy and perfectly new infrastructure would be part of this.

The problem is clearly the financial part of the story. But without a vision this part of the world will be doomed for the next 100 years.

So basically another shot at exporting democracy? That has worked quite well over decades, right? xD

 

[Maedre]

So basically another shot at exporting democracy? That has worked quite well over decades, right? xD

It's more like a fantasy. I know that this will not work down there. That's the sad part.

 

[Ragnaroz]

What do you propose?

Invade ISIS territories, deal with them and be done with it. Then just send all the refugees back home to help rebuild their country.

 

[patapuf]

I believe there is only one way to achieve peace in this region is to create a new prosperous secular Islamic state Like turkey was with a strong economy.
Controlled and governed by the UN. With a UN army. A complete new beginning and concept.
Free speech and believe should be mandatory and and granted. Strict rules against anyone who tries to put religion and corruption above.
Education should be priority number one.
We the people of planet earth could use this New Democratic and stable country. 100% renewable energy and perfectly new infrastructure would be part of this.

The problem is clearly the financial part of the story. But without a vision this part of the world will be doomed for the next 100 years.

I'm not sure about the governed by the UN part but a good economic outlook would definetly calm down the region.

The problem is, with all the instability this is a no go. So either they get over their ethnic and religious differences on their own (which will take a while, if it ever happens) or someone forces them to (which opens a whole differet can of worms and it has already backfired a number of times).

Either way the issues in the region are not the kind you'll solve within the next 5 years, with or without "boots on the ground".


Both not getting involved and getting involved aren't great options for the EU and the fact that the EU itself isn't exactly a unified political bloc at the moment and makes effective policies in either direction difficult to boot.

 

[Clockwork5]

It's more like a fantasy. I know that this will not work down there. That's the sad part.

It is sad. That is why the longer I live on this planet; I realize the more the west meddles with the Middle East the more unstable it becomes.

Get out. Let them sort it out.

 

[metareferential]

It's more like a fantasy. I know that this will not work down there. That's the sad part.

It's a region that for historical and cultural reasons has never had the opportunity to freely evolve into modern states.

To think that in the middle ages (and mostly up until the renaissance) most of arab countries were at the cutting edge in science, philosophy and art makes me really sad (and despite crusades and official propaganda, trades and cultural exchanges were quite the norm between muslims and christians during short-lived peace time).

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Invade ISIS territories, deal with them and be done with it. Then just send all the refugees back home to help rebuild their country.

Probably wouldn't work. They are insurgents which means they will just go underground and then spring back up as soon as you leave (Iraq) or draw down (Afghanistan). Also, unless you engage in nation building the instability of the area alone will just make the chance of the next bad group popping up inevitable. Not to mention their global network is all over the place, they are already planning for the post-caliphate stage.

 

[Clockwork5]

Probably wouldn't work. They are insurgents which means they will just go underground and then spring back up as soon as you leave (Iraq) or draw down (Afghanistan). Also, unless you engage in nation building the instability of the area alone will just make the chance of the next bad group popping up inevitable.

So what is the point of It all? Why is the west engaging in any of this?

 

[Maedre]

It is sad. That is why the longer I live on this planet; I realize the more the west meddles with the Middle East the more unstable it becomes.

Get out. Let them sort it out.

That's hard in a globalized world. The Middle East is connected with us. The masses of refugees are showing us that we can't just say that they have to let them sort it out.

 

[Clockwork5]

That's hard in a globalized world. The Middle East is connected with us. The masses of refugees are showing us that we can't just say that they have to let them sort it out.

Why don't they go to their neighboring countries that share some of their cultural influences?

Refugees are a temporary issue. We are once again propelling this nonsense to the next generation. It needs to stop.

 

[knkng]

Personal opinion time:
People laugh at the guy saying that these refugees living in limbo with nothing to do and no prospects is one of the problems right now, but it is known that having no occupation is one of many factors causing anxiety and depression.
This refugee crisis is a multi faceted issue and while I do agree that something needs to be done, it requires a very careful approach. These are not issues that you can solve with blanket bans and legislation, like the far-right wants you to think. There are no "easy" solutions. What would have been needed from the beginning was a clear system to support and implement these people in some kind of work, even if it's just voluntary service. Get them to do something.

I agree with you that this whole thing was botched from the beginning. There was no plan in place, and this is where we are today. The unfortunate truth is that Europe now has to move forward with the refugee situation via an intrinsically broken system. At this point, there is no easy solution, and anybody saying otherwise is kidding themselves. I foresee a difficult road ahead, and it's a problem of Europe's own creation.

As for the refugees having nothing to do, of course that will slowly drive people crazy. But to suggest that we should be grateful that they are not killing more people (as an earlier poster did), is ludicrous. The solution to the problem lay right before us at the beginning of this journey, yet people decided it was best to throw caution to the wind. It was not an issue of racism or Islamophobia, but of order and infrastructure. The problem is that once the floodgates have been opened, there is no turning back, and people were simply not thinking logically. People wanted to play internet hero, and now they are claiming that we should be happy that refugees aren't killing more people? Disgusting. Just own the fact that this approach was a mistake (not you specifically, but others who were and continue defending it).

 

[Maedre]

Why don't they go to their neighboring countries that share some of their cultural influences?

Refugees are a temporary issue. We are once again propelling this nonsense to the next generation. It needs to stop.

Because they don't want them and Europe is wealthy and free. Where would you go? I place where you can live and believe the way you want or a place where they take your hand Ehren you steal something or your life when you don't like allah.

 

[Ac30]

Why don't they go to their neighboring countries that share some of their cultural influences?

Refugees are a temporary issue. We are once again propelling this nonsense to the next generation. It needs to stop.

They do. Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey hold the vast majority of refugees.

Western interference has driven these conflicts for generations at this point. We need to let them sort themselves out.

Maedre, Europe doesn't have anywhere near the burden the ME has.

 

[metareferential]

Our economy does not allow for a all-round plan for integration of the refugees. There is no work for everybody.

And besides (and I say this because that's my line of work) most of them simply can't work here because of lack of education.

Underage refugees are put in schools and are educated (for what can be done); even then it's extremely difficult finding a suitable job (even when the government is directly involved).

We don't have time and resources (in the current political and economic landscape, that is) to offer them a decent life out of poverty/ignorance.

 

[maniac-kun]

Well Merkel didnt make our country safer with her shit So many attacks in one week.