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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I could say the same about my good friend who is Mexican and voting trump. Without any information about them I highly doubt affirmative action is the only reason they are voting republican. No poll data in California supports that trump is getting a massive amount of support from Mexicans or Asians in California.

The OP is specifically talking about people he knows, and I was talking about those same people. Not talking about on a larger scale, a different race, or voting R in general.

 

[Googly Eyes Dog]

People who oppose affirmative action are racist.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

they should better recognize the fascistic tendencies of the Republican party.




well in real life, whether western or otherwise, hard work doesn't (I'd argue most times) translate into what you want. it's a mix of things, who you know, right place right time type of things. sounds to me like a lot of Chinese can't accept the affect the fact that sometimes, you lose. plain and simple.

This is the cold hard truth that some people cannot accept.

Working hard or smart or both sometimes isn't enough in life. Better to be lucky than good as the saying goes.

 

[AstroNut325]

Sounds more like they want the tax cuts rather than action on AA.

 

[Vanillalite]

Again this wouldn't be as big of an issue if public schools all offered free tuition and therefore the population at large could apply anywhere in the country and have a great chance to get in.

As it stands now because everything is segregated by states it means kids applying across state lines have a harder chance getting in and will pay more.

Sure you can apply everywhere now, but state schools tend to slant more slots for in state vs out state. Plus out of state kids pay more for the same education.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

the issue here is not that Asians need to score 450 to equal blacks.

The issue is that they need to score 140 points more than whites. That's white supremacy at it's finest. And it's bullshit.

Yeah, I think affirmative action is definitely a good thing in general, as long as it doesn't mean that Asian-Americans have to work harder than their white counterparts.

Still a dumb reason to vote for Trump, though.

 

[2real4tv]

According to OP they were never voting democratic anyway.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

All politics is local.

 

[Vanillalite]

All politics is local.

I don't personally think higher education should be though.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Let's cut the crap with that "holistic" bullshit. AA fucks over Asians, and saying that their applications are "bland" or not balanced when you haven't seen them says more about your racist views than it does about them.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Have you seen Ben Carson?

I have, and I doubt any of the OP's friends are on Ben Carson's level.

That's the scary part.

 

[mr2xxx]

I understand the anger but I don't see how ending AA at elite schools helps Asian Americans. Because at the end of the day the same people who have the power and donate at these prestigious schools are the same people who placed a bamboo cieling on Asian Americans in the first place.

 

[Usobuko]

Your friends are statistically an aberration.

Yes, OP.

Your friends are merely anomalies in this. Equality should be fought in a manner that get rids of white privileges and Trump clearly stands otherwise.

 

[_Ryo_]

So your friends are single issue voters that find themselves able to ignore denial of science, police corruption, racism, xenophobia, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and general bigotry and the fact that that a Trump presidency would largely negatively impact a large set of minorities, along with the middle class and the poor, with the exception and in a very specific case, the one minority that they themselves belong to, even though outside that one issue they themselves would also be negatively impacted by a Trump presidency.


Yea, I'd not be able to consider them friends at that point. Especially as a member of several minorities myself.

 

[numble]

I understand the anger but I don't see how ending AA at elite schools helps Asian Americans. Because at the end of the day the same people who have the power and donate at these prestigious schools are the same people who placed a bamboo cieling on Asian Americans in the first place.

The issue is Proposition 209, a California statewide ballot passed in 1996 which prohibited California public universities from using race as a factor. SCA5 proposes to abolish Proposition 209. After Proposition 209, Asian enrollment increased. Many Asian Americans believe that abolishing Proposition 209 would lead to lower rates of acceptance at California's public universities.

It does not really have to deal with powerful people donating to prestigious schools and AA at elite schools.

 

[Mr. X]

Can someone throw me some links to how Affirmative Action screws Asian Americans? Like scholarly articles.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Can someone throw me some links to how Affirmative Action screws Asian Americans? Like scholarly articles.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/06/07/affirm

Study done by Princeton.

The big gains would be for Asian applicants. Their admission rate in a race-neutral system would go to 23.4 percent, from 17.6 percent. And their share of a class of admitted students would rise to 31.5 percent, from 23.7 percent.

Also read this: http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...-and-the-future-of-affirmative-action/489023/

 

[keuja]

Asians are getting fucked by the AA. So I can totally understand their anger and frustration. Still, they should realize that voting Trump will change nothing and make things worse. I hope you can convince them to not vote for him.

 

[Darryl M R]

Let's cut the crap with that "holistic" bullshit. AA fucks over Asians, and saying that their applications are "bland" or not balanced when you haven't seen them says more about your racist views than it does about them.

I don't think you know what racism means.

 

[Gavin Darklighter]

Most of the Asian American people I know (young and old) in CA are supremely racist so even if there is some validity to their complaint I'm not giving them any sympathy.

 

[Hip Hop]

They're not even voting for their best interests though. They're voting against an individual who had nothing to do with their state constitution while also voting directly against their own self interests in numeruous other ways. It's a petty revenge vote.

We should get rid of voting.

 

[Future]

You have to value diversity in education to like affirmative action. You have to believe that having diverse schools creates better social education for every student, and doesn't just benefit those with low merit that squeezed in.

 

[mr2xxx]

The issue is Proposition 209, a California statewide ballot passed in 1996 which prohibited California public universities from using race as a factor. SCA5 proposes to abolish Proposition 209. After Proposition 209, Asian enrollment increased. Many Asian Americans believe that abolishing Proposition 209 would lead to lower rates of acceptance at California's public universities.

It does not really have to deal with powerful people donating to prestigious schools and AA at elite schools.

Yeah, I was trying to respond to someone but now it looks like I'm going off on some random tangent.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Let's cut the crap with that "holistic" bullshit. AA fucks over Asians, and saying that their applications are "bland" or not balanced when you haven't seen them says more about your racist views than it does about them.

It's not racist because it doesn't apply to just Asians, so pause. This is well known within elite colleges that people who have more on their resumes tend to get a better look than those who only get good grades.

----

I can see how AA definitely fucks over Asians from both sides, but why vote for Trump who will do nothing of the sort? He won't change that especially considering that Asians are the ones clamoring for it who are mostly being fucked over by white counterparts... Not other minorities. Like what? If Asians have to work ten times harder than their white counterparts, why would they think Trump will change that? I'm confused... Like I get why they are mad but it's such a trash decision.

 

[Darryl M R]

You have to value diversity in education to like affirmative action. You have to believe that having diverse schools creates better social education for every student, and doesn't just benefit those with low merit that squeezed in.

Exactly.

But I would argue that no one is squeezing in. People like to shame minorities (but not women--white or Asian that also benefit from AA) for "cutting the line."

If AA got them into a top school, what got them out? You just don't graduate a top university if you are a low performer.

 

[Valkerionseven]

It's a vote that will do nothing for them, that's the part I don't get. I mean go ahead, but when he starts his tirade about how Asians are taking our jobs, and making it unfair for hard working American students to succeed or whatever because they are too smart, or even more fun the "passive model minority" argument and you still vote for him...

I'm just saying, do your thing, but think it out in the long run. I guarantee Trump hasn't thought about AA and how it affects anyone positive or negatively nor would his presidency. Projecting weird false hopes and assumptions on the nominees with no real basis is exactly how we got him in the running at the moment.

 

[numble]

Exactly.

But I would argue that no one is squeezing in. People like to shame minorities (but not women--white or Asian that also benefit from AA) for "cutting the line."

If AA got them into a top school, what got them out? You just don't graduate a top university if you are a low performer.

Given that only Berkeley is the only "top school" affected by Proposition 209 and SCA5, the voters' and students' interest in these policies likely aren't just about top schools. You keep talking about being able to get into your state school instead of Yale or Stanford, but these policies are about getting into state schools, including poor ranking ones.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I don't think you know what racism means.

Please enlighten me.

It's not racist because it doesn't apply to just Asians, so pause. This is well known within elite colleges that people who have more on their resumes tend to get a better look than those who only get good grades.

----

I can see how AA definitely fucks over Asians from both sides, but why vote for Trump who will do nothing of the sort? He won't change that especially considering that Asians are the ones clamoring for it who are mostly being fucked over by white counterparts... Not other minorities. Like what? If Asians have to work ten times harder than their white counterparts, why would they think Trump will change that? I'm confused... Like I get why they are mad but it's such a trash decision.

I am not voting Trump, nor is anyone I know voting for him. I am not even necessarily against affirmative action because I do think it's a net benefit to help everyone get opportunities for higher education, even if it does fuck over people of my own ethnicity.

Now, how is it not racist to just assume (and I don't mean you, specifically, but look at some of the posts in this thread) that one applicant's application is "bland" just based on his or her ethnicity? That's okay? And if you read the link I posted earlier, it says that even if controlled for other factors, an Asian applicant's SAT score needs to be 140 points higher than a white applicant's, just for his application to be considered equal. How is arbitrarily disadvantaging someone based solely on ethnicity not racist?

 

[Darryl M R]

Given that only Berkeley is the only "top school" affected by Proposition 209 and SCA5, the voters' and students' interest in these policies likely aren't just about top schools. You keep talking about being able to get into your state school instead of Yale or Stanford, but these policies are about getting into state schools, including poor ranking ones.

Have you noticed that my posts are about AA in general and not SCA5? Having an amendment to allow quotas is something very specific to SCA5. I have not once argued that quotas are good. So read my posts.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater they can mobilize to block SCA5.

Please enlighten me.

You argued that criticizing student applicants as bland is racist. That is stupid. If there are similar applicants that share the same background in terms of resources, ethnicity, upbringing, and grades then there is nothing to distinguish them besides their essay. If their essay is bland, then they are a bland applicant. There are more affluent students applying to the same school. The top 100 private high schools in the US all apply to the same school. If a bunch of people that are very similar to you are applying to the same school how are you standing out with a bland essay? You aren't.

In 2016 Harvard accepted 5.2% of their applications. You are telling me that there are zero bland applicants within the 94.8% that were rejected? They all were stellar applicants? Some people need to look in the mirror and stop blaming everything around them and just own up to not getting accepted because that specific university did not want them as a student. No Jamal, and Juliana did not steal your spot. You never had one.

 

[coopolon]

"Good luck."

-The Hispanic voters in California.

Haha, Trump doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning in CA.

 

[numble]

Have you noticed that my posts are about AA in general and not SCA5? Having an amendment to allow quotas is something very specific to SCA5. I have not once argued that quotas are good. So read my posts.

There is no amendment to allow quotas though. Not sure what you are talking about.

I think it is not very helpful to talk about broad issues that do not apply to what the subject is about, as it distorts things.

Like when you claim that poor Asians aren't just out of luck because schools will look at things holistically.

Or claiming that people are just thinking it is an issue with getting into top tier schools:

Also most people can achieve an higher education. It's an issue for certain people that they didn't get into Yale, but they got into their state school.

But when the subject itself are the policies at the students' state schools, and these state schools are massive with 100,000-120,000 applicants that must be reviewed, you are distorting the discussion into a claim about people complaining about not getting into a top tier elite school that holistically reviews applicants versus the reality of the general populace applying to middling state schools that probably do not have the resources to holistically review.

 

[Septimus Prime]

You argued that criticizing student applicants as bland is racist. That is stupid. If there are similar applicants that share the same background in terms of resources, ethnicity, upbringing, and grades then there is nothing to distinguish them besides their essay. If their essay is bland, then they are a bland applicant. There are more affluent students applying to the same school. The top 100 private high schools in the US all apply to the same school. If a bunch of people that are very similar to you are applying to the same school how are you standing out with a bland essay? You aren't.

In 2016 Harvard accepted 5.2% of their applications. You are telling me that there are zero bland applicants within the 94.8% that were rejected? They all were stellar applicants? Some people need to look in the mirror and stop blaming everything around them and just own up to not getting accepted because that specific university did not want them as a student. No Jamal, and Juliana did not steal your spot. You never had one.

The racism is the assumption that the essay or extracurriculars of certain applicants are weaker based solely on their ethnicity.

EDIT: Here is an example:

It's impossible to not do filtering in recruiting for schools, but I think filtering based on GPA isn't helping anyone. Seeing people who spend their entire lives in cram schools is a really sad thing because they literally have no life skills after having come out of them.

 

[Cyrano]

It's impossible to not do filtering in recruiting for schools, but I think filtering based on GPA isn't helping anyone. Seeing people who spend their entire lives in cram schools is a really sad thing because they literally have no life skills after having come out of them.

 

[Cagey]

Have you noticed that my posts are about AA in general and not SCA5? Having an amendment to allow quotas is something very specific to SCA5. I have not once argued that quotas are good. So read my posts.

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater they can mobilize to block SCA5.



You argued that criticizing student applicants as bland is racist. That is stupid. If there are similar applicants that share the same background in terms of resources, ethnicity, upbringing, and grades then there is nothing to distinguish them besides their essay. If their essay is bland, then they are a bland applicant. There are more affluent students applying to the same school. The top 100 private high schools in the US all apply to the same school. If a bunch of people that are very similar to you are applying to the same school how are you standing out with a bland essay? You aren't.

In 2016 Harvard accepted 5.2% of their applications. You are telling me that there are zero bland applicants within the 94.8% that were rejected? They all were stellar applicants? Some people need to look in the mirror and stop blaming everything around them and just own up to not getting accepted because that specific university did not want them as a student. No Jamal, and Juliana did not steal your spot. You never had one.

They just need to be more well rounded?

 

[Vanillalite]

It's not about luck. It's not that Asians are unlucky or not getting the break. It's that the current affirmative action system setup in California makes it so even with all comparable measures being equal Asians have to get a higher SAT score than whites.

That doesn't mean affirmative action is bad. I'm also a strong proponent of diversity amongst students. You could still figure out a way to keep AA and lessen this specific burden.

The biggest key problem is at least in terms of public institutions it's all handled state by state. Because of the way finding is allocated more slots are also allocated for instate applicatants. It also means that it's harder to get in out of state as well as costlier due to out of state fees.

If the public university system was federalized then anyone could apply anywhere regardless of where they live, and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices could all be great schools without having to fight for a spot cause your an out of state applicatant.

It would alleviate some pressure of allowing affirmative action without shuffling some of the edge cases off to severely lesser schools due to having to stay in state.

Obviously private institutions would be on their own.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's impossible to not do filtering in recruiting for schools, but I think filtering based on GPA isn't helping anyone. Seeing people who spend their entire lives in cram schools is a really sad thing because they literally have no life skills after having come out of them.

The other thing is that high GPAs and/or test scores does not automatically mean the student will be successful or a major contributor to a school.

Admissions can be a complex thing. Especially at highly selective schools.

 

[Darryl M R]

The racism is the assumption that the essay or extracurriculars of certain applicants are weaker based solely on their ethnicity.

No. My statement (not assumption) is that students--Asians or otherwise--with bland applicants due to a weak essay or another aspect on their applications are not competitive. Yet these non-competitive applicants will blame AA for their rejection.

 

[Septimus Prime]

No. My statement (not assumption) is that students--Asians or otherwise--with bland applicants due to a weak essay or another aspect on their applications are not competitive. Yet these non-competitive applicants will blame AA for their rejection.

You don't know that, as you haven't seen their applications to begin with. Moreover, with quota systems, it very well is possible that some of them are rejected because the spot went to someone equal in all measures but race.

 

[Coriolanus]

Why is it interesting? They witnessed first hand how some communist scum destroyed their country and their families, of course they're going to be as far from the left as possible.

They do know who ruled Cuba before Castro, yes? They've as much reason to be the fuck away from the left as they have from the right.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's not about luck. It's not that Asians are unlucky or not getting the break. It's that the current affirmative action system setup in California makes it so even with all comparable measures being equal Asians have to get a higher SAT score than whites.

That doesn't mean affirmative action is bad. I'm also a strong proponent of diversity amongst students. You could still figure out a way to keep AA and lessen this specific burden.

The biggest key problem is at least in terms of public institutions it's all handled state by state. Because of the way finding is allocated more slots are also allocated for instate applicatants. It also means that it's harder to get in out of state as well as costlier due to out of state fees.

If the public university system was federalized then anyone could apply anywhere regardless of where they live, and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices could all be great schools without having to fight for a spot cause your an out of state applicatant.

It would alleviate some pressure of allowing affirmative action without shuffling some of the edge cases off to severely lesser schools due to having to stay in state.

Obviously private institutions would be on their own.

I think this speaks partially to lack of research. There is such obsession with Top 25 schools that so many others that may actually be better fits given the type of major they are looking at are being overlooked and dismissed.

Many schools offer scholarships or programs to bring down out of state costs and essentially match it to in-state rates. I've seen a lot of examples of this at good to great schools across the US. Some schools are specifically looking for diverse populations and want more out of state/international students.

Options exists and I'm not sure if there are so few that warrants putting universities and colleges into direct federal oversight. I think the foundation primary/secondary schooling should continue to be federalized for the most part, but post-secondary needs can vary highly by state and location.

 

[ghostofsparta]

They really think Trump will help them? lol

Anyways good luck with that, our Latino brothers and sisters won't let Trump win Cali

 

[Darryl M R]

You don't know that, as you haven't seen their applications to begin with. Moreover, with quota systems, it very well is possible that some of them are rejected because the spot went to someone equal in all measures but race.

So the assumption for Asian-Americans is that any rejection is a result of a lesser applicant "cutting the line" due to AA?

Rather than that they just might not have made the cut.

This is my issue when discussing AA; the first reaction is to assume that someone did not get in through their own merits. Rather than understanding that AA tries to risk adjust and scale applicants. So you did not get in because you weren't a good applicant. No one took your spot.

If a university does not have the proper channels to handle applications then there are bigger issues that just AA.

Sounds like "Super South" mentality.

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

I disagree. Also most people can achieve an higher education. It's an issue for certain people that they didn't get into Yale, but they got into their state school.


People can't face the fact that their application is bland.

One example let's imagine two demographics are applying for Yale:

Chinese-American
Wealthy
4.0 GPA out of 5.0 GPA (took 20+ AP courses)
Simple community service
No job experience (they are wealthy so they did not have to get a job)
Graduated from a top tier high school
(300+ applicants that fit this profile)

vs

Latina
Lower-Middle Class
4.0 GPA out of 5.0 GPA (took 3 AP courses because that is all her school offered)
A lot of community service (active in her local church which helped her stay focus in life)
Some job experience (had to buy her own luxury items)
Graduated from a poor performing school district
(~50 applicants that fit this profile)

Top tier universities (think top 30 within any given year) care about seeing an underdog story and they do not want to get the same narrative in their starting classes. Diversity of thought is extremely valuable for recruiting departments.

Between these two people, I don't think a lot of people will have a problem choosing the Latina applicant over the Asian applicant. But this is not what's happening in reality, born out by the data. In actuality, if the Latina applicant had a 3.0, and the Asian applicant had a perfect 5.0, the Latina might still get in over the Asian applicant, and that might be bothersome to the Asian American in that situation. While the Latina certainly had to overcome numerous challenges, the Asian American also had to work his tail off to get perfect or near perfect marks. Not only that, the system is so racist and rigged that the average white person has to score less than an average Asian applicant to get in...can someone explain THAT to me??

 

[Vanillalite]

I think this speaks partially to lack of research. There is such obsession with Top 25 schools that so many others that may actually be better fits given the type of major they are looking at are being overlooked and dismissed.

Many schools offer scholarships or programs to bring down out of state costs and essentially match it to in-state rates. I've seen a lot of examples of this at good to great schools across the US. Some schools are specifically looking for diverse populations and want more out of state/international students.

Options exists and I'm not sure if there are so few that warrants putting universities and colleges into direct federal oversight. I think the foundation primary/secondary schooling should continue to be federalized for the most part, but post-secondary needs can vary highly by state and location.

It's not about top 25.

It's about if you have to stay in state either cause it's easier to get into or else cause it's financially more feasible the diff between the top 2 schools and the next tier usually isn't about top 25. It's about going from a top 100 school to a top 500 school.

This is in terms of public institutions.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Although the broader issue of Asian-Americans and AA admissions policies is part of the debate, evidence suggests that Asian-Americans overwhelmingly identify as Democratic, and increasingly so, including in California, including this year. So I feel like while there's merit in the discussions of AA admissions policies and Asian-Americans, the anecdote about everyone supporting Trump seems kinda non-representative.

 

[Darryl M R]

Between these two people, I don't think a lot of people will have a problem choosing the Latina applicant over the Asian applicant. But this is not what's happening in reality, born out by the data. In actuality, if the Latina applicant had a 3.0, and the Asian applicant had a perfect 5.0, the Latina might still get in over the Asian applicant, and that might be bothersome to the Asian American in that situation. While the Latina certainly had to overcome numerous challenges, the Asian American also had to work his tail off to get perfect or near perfect marks. Not only that, the system is so racist and rigged that the average white person has to score less than an average Asian applicant to get in...can someone explain THAT to me??

False. If a school is accepting an applicant with a 3.0 GPA they are already not a a high ranking university. If a 5.0 gpa student is applying for that school the most likely reason for why that student did not get accepted is because of the Tufts syndrome/yield protection.

Top tier universities do not lower their GPA scale that low for AA. Students still have to meet the GPA requirements. So it's not like only Asians can get into a school if they have a 4.0 GPA but for blacks it is a 3.0; the situation might be that a 3.7 and a 3.9 is equal when risk adjusted for both profiles.

Now I can't talk about whites scores in comparison to Asians. I'm only familiar with AA and the reasons why most top universities support it.

 

[norm9]

Although the broader issue of Asian-Americans and AA admissions policies is part of the debate, evidence suggests that Asian-Americans overwhelmingly identify as Democratic, and increasingly so, including in California, including this year. So I feel like while there's merit in the discussions of AA admissions policies and Asian-Americans, the anecdote about everyone supporting Trump seems kinda non-representative.

Everyone skipped over the fact that the OP's examples are wealthy people and wealthy people are overwhelmingly Republican leaning, but it's just easier for some people to use their personal anecdotes to generalize Asian people being racist or whatever.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's not about top 25.

It's about if you have to stay in state either cause it's easier to get into or else cause it's financially more feasible the diff between the top 2 schools and the next tier usually isn't about top 25. It's about going from a top 100 school to a top 500 school.

This is in terms of public institutions.

Well that's one problem. Some focus on the overall university ranking, which isn't a good thing necessarily. The more important factor generally is individual program rankings. So yeah a school may be top 200, but they may have a top 50 business school or engineering school or top 10 individual majors. That speaks to best fit, which is an aspect of the college search/education process that is lacking mightily both on the college side and high school/parent side.

And that school may offer good scholarships or incentives and be located in an area with great internship/company/research access. I've been at events where schools are just dismissed based on overall ranking and it feeds into the perception that there aren't a lot of options or if you don't get into that top school you can't be successful. It's incredibly frustrating. And the event was led by Asian-American leaders to Asian-American parents/students.

That like I said in addition to many examples of a school say offering a scholarship where if you earn at least $X amount you now also qualify for in-state tuition, which makes costs very competitive. Hell, many state school tuition across the US rivals in-state California costs. And that's just looking at Top 100 overall and especially Top 100 public school rankings. You don't even have to go down to top 500 or unranked regional focused schools.

 

[Septimus Prime]

So the assumption for Asian-Americans is that any rejection is a result of a lesser applicant "cutting the line" due to AA?

Rather than that they just might not have made the cut.

This is my issue when discussing AA; the first reaction is to assume that someone did not get in through their own merits. Rather than understanding that AA tries to risk adjust and scale applicants. So you did not get in because you weren't a good applicant. No one took your spot.

If a university does not have the proper channels to handle applications then there are bigger issues that just AA.

Sounds like "Super South" mentality.

No, of course not, but we don't have to swing from one extreme to the other. The problem with AA and quotas is that if you have two applicants that are equal in all but race, the one with the less favorable race is going to lose out to the other. This is discrimination--even if its intent is good and its result is arguably beneficial for society at large.

This is the problem with getting in or not getting in through their own merits, as you say, because the merits of one applicant are held to a higher standard for an arbitrary reason. No individual applicant is actually ever going to know if they don't get in because of this, but if you look at the trends at large, fewer Asians get into these schools with AA than without, which implies that AA is negatively affecting their rate of admittance.

But, like I said, I'm not actually against AA. What I'm pissed about is the blatant assumption that Asians are less deserving of equal opportunity because of the nonsense belief that they are less well rounded or bland or only achieve high scores because of cram schools or tiger moms or whatever other bullshit.

 

[numble]

So the assumption for Asian-Americans is that any rejection is a result of a lesser applicant "cutting the line" due to AA?

Rather than that they just might not have made the cut.

This is my issue when discussing AA; the first reaction is to assume that someone did not get in through their own merits. Rather than understanding that AA tries to risk adjust and scale applicants.

If a university does not have the proper channels to handle applications then there are bigger issues that just AA.

There are statistics about what happens when race-based preferences are taken away:
http://www.mercurynews.com/2013/06/21/affirmative-action-ban-at-uc-15-years-later/

Proposition 209 — approved in 1996 — instantly changed the odds for black, Latino and Native American students vying for a spot in the selective University of California system. The change was felt most acutely at UC Berkeley and UCLA, two of the nation’s most competitive and prestigious public universities.

At Cal, the freshman admission rates for those three groups plunged by more than 50 percent between 1997 and 1998, the year the ban took effect — from 45 percent to 20 percent. The proportion of black freshmen fell by half, to 3.4 percent of the class.

Are you sure that this huge plunge in black enrollment right after Proposition 209 is because they didn't make the cut? The schools can still consider extracurriculars and job experience. Do you think that the proportion of bland applicants for black applicants increased while the proportion of Asian applicants with more interesting applications increased?

The more reasonable answer is that they don't have the resources to review holistically and had been just using a rough race-based metric.