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[BajiBoxer]

Voting for your best interests is idiotic?

People vote for selfish reasons, always have and always will.

They're not even voting for their best interests though. They're voting against an individual who had nothing to do with their state constitution while also voting directly against their own self interests in numeruous other ways. It's a petty revenge vote.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So is the idea that more Asian Americans will be accepted in once affirmative action is gone?

Because I seem to recall a few racist video rants from white women (largest group to benefit from affirmative action) about their Asian American fellow students. That sentiment going to disappear or nah

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

What does voting for Trump have to do with that?

Ph.Ds but still ignorant as hell.

 

[HStallion]

What does voting for Trump have to do with that?

Ph.Ds but still ignorant as hell.

Have you seen Ben Carson?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I can understand their complaint but I would voice my concerns at a local level, not in the national election where no one cares.

From work I've done at a southern major university, a lot of admission counselors told me that Asian Americans often don't write down their correct race because of competition and AA.

Food for thought.

Anecdotally, I'm biracial and I used white instead of Asian as my designation.

Splitting Asian into separate ethnicities based on country makes a lot of sense. Calling everyone from Asia general Asian seems a bit old fashioned in today's date.

The biggest problem is that the label "Asian" is used in the model minority myth because it masks the problems plaguing communities.

 

[BRocknRolla]

The "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude exists across all races, cultures, and creeds in America it seems. Very sad.

 

[BajiBoxer]

So is the idea that more Asian Americans will be accepted in once affirmative action is gone?

Because I seem to recall a few racist video rants from white women (largest group to benefit from affirmative action) about their Asian American fellow students. That sentiment going to disappear or nah

Also true. Siding with white nationalists isn't going to put more asians in California colleges, lol.

 

[Rentahamster]

Any good studies on this?

https://newrepublic.com/article/73365/disadvantages

Espenshade and Radford report that blacks received an admissions boost worth 310 SAT points compared with whites. Hispanics received a 130 point preference, and Asians received a 140 point penalty compared with whites. Taken together, on average, an Asian American student must score a whopping 450 points higher on the combined math and verbal sections of the SAT to have the same chance of being admitted as an African American applicant.

But as the article notes, it's complicated.

 

[Damerman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Constitutional_Amendment_No._5

I'm unsympathetic, and voting for Trump is morally unacceptable.

well now i don't know what to believe.

 

[norm9]

https://newrepublic.com/article/73365/disadvantages



But as the article notes, it's complicated.

This is why I slack off at work. The bar is set so low, anything I do impresses.

 

[Trojita]

So is the idea that more Asian Americans will be accepted in once affirmative action is gone?

Because I seem to recall a few racist video rants from white women (largest group to benefit from affirmative action) about their Asian American fellow students. That sentiment going to disappear or nah

No, they are worried once the amendment happens that the now currently 35% of Asian American UC Students in the future will be competing for a smaller percentage than that. They are represented at over 2x the number of their representative population in the state.

Also the arguments for refusing the amendment are pretty funny sad.

Major arguments against SCA 5 include:

Fail to address root causes of the problem

To address the problem of failing to obtain college admission, we should identify the root causes in early stage and improve the quality and outreach of K-12 education. Artificially lowering the admission standard for a small group of students will not address the root problems. On the other hand, we should expand the University campuses so more seats will be available for qualified students.

Pursue the wrong metrics for diversity

Diversity is defined by the collection of different life experiences, thinking models, approaches to problems, and fresh perspectives within a group of people, not defined by the superficial differences in skin colors. Improving education diversity is to improve different thinking methods and problem solving skills for students so they can be better prepared for life challenges later on, not to increase the number of different skin colors.

"lowering the admission standard"
"qualified students"
"not to increase the number of different skin colors"

 

[Damerman]

I disagree. Also most people can achieve an higher education. It's an issue for certain people that they didn't get into Yale, but they got into their state school.


People can't face the fact that their application is bland.

One example let's imagine two demographics are applying for Yale:

Chinese-American
Wealthy
4.0 GPA out of 5.0 GPA (took 20+ AP courses)
Simple community service
No job experience (they are wealthy so they did not have to get a job)
Graduated from a top tier high school
(300+ applicants that fit this profile)

vs

Latina
Lower-Middle Class
4.0 GPA out of 5.0 GPA (took 3 AP courses because that is all her school offered)
A lot of community service (active in her local church which helped her stay focus in life)
Some job experience (had to buy her own luxury items)
Graduated from a poor performing school district
(~50 applicants that fit this profile)

Top tier universities (think top 30 within any given year) care about seeing an underdog story and they do not want to get the same narrative in their starting classes. Diversity of thought is extremely valuable for recruiting departments.

excellent post.

 

[MogCakes]

Fuck them and their small-mindedness.

 

[Bleepey]

Tiger mum yep.
Different country
Same issue.
ANU (a big Australian uni) is going to put a quota system.similarly because.68% of their students are erhnically Chinese.

Anyway lol at anyone not white thinking trump will help them if he gets voted in he would do much worse for the ABCs it's just his attention isn't there yet..

Source?

 

[joebruin]

how old are these people because I know ZERO trump supporters among my asian friends. at least none that are open about it.

even the older asian people through my parents (50+) i know are voting hillary (despite some of their racist tendencies and general conservative nature)

Spoiler

luckily we are in CA

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

https://newrepublic.com/article/73365/disadvantages



But as the article notes, it's complicated.

Yeah, I'd advise people to read the WHOLE article. This excerpt however highlights that the lazy attempts to only balance inequalities and not address the inherent prejudices in the boards reviewing the applications themselves are a source of contention. A lot of institutions are simply not willing to spend the time or money to devise more comprehensive methodology that doesn't simply slide a bar to the left or right of zero.

 

[freeofgreed]

I uh, understand that a lot of GAF hasn't ever met an Asian in real life before, but can we not take some rando's friends as a representative sample of the Asian-American population? Thanks.

What are you talking about?

 

[andythinkpad]

This is basically a CA specific phenomenon.

Going by the Chinese I talk to on a Chinese forum (so all posters are 1st and 1.5th generations). I say Hillary:Trump:Libertarian:Skeptic ratios are 2:1:2:1

Yeah I lot of Libertarians. I wouldn't be surprised if they are more than DEM supporters. And the Chinese Canadians are pretty conservative as far as I can tell.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Here is an article on Affirmative Action I think its a pretty good description of what happens.

Consider Asian Americans, who make up a large part of the student body at selective colleges and universities. Most people assume that the dismantling of affirmative action would benefit Asian Americans by opening up even more slots for Asian high-achievers. The notion that this is good for Asian Americans seems plausible on the surface, but on a deeper level, it’s quite misguided.

It is true that if admission were based solely on test scores, more students of Asian descent would be admitted. In one recently published study, Asian American students who enrolled in Duke averaged 1457 out of 1600 on the math and reading portions of the SAT, compared to 1416 for whites, 1347 for Hispanics and 1275 for blacks.

Opponents of affirmative action cite such statistics to tell a story in which deserving yellows lose slots to undeserving blacks and browns. (Tellingly, we don’t usually hear much about undeserving whites.) But the experience of Asian Americans doesn’t easily fit such a narrative. Instead, it reveals three more important realities that we need to face:




1. Merit Is Not A Number. We all want merit to mean something, and we all may be tempted to reduce that meaning to something measurable and concrete like an SAT score. The reality, though, is that who deserves entry into an institution depends on what the institution exists to do.

Imagine filling a college with the first 1,000 students to get perfect SATs. Whatever the racial composition of that class would be, the notion seems absurd because we know that college in America is supposed to be about creating citizens and leaders in a diverse nation. There are other factors to weigh than test-taking aptitude, some of them intangible.

To be sure, racism sometimes lurks in those same intangibles: consider the stereotype that diligent, detail-oriented Asian Americans make better followers than leaders. But what that calls for is not a misplaced faith that merit can be quantified and that the number should displace all else. It calls for a transparent description of the qualitative factors that shape selection. Among those factors, validly, is whether an applicant’s entry increases the diversity of the class.
2. Diversity Is A Necessity Not A Nicety. When Justice Sandra Day O’Connor upheld the limited use of affirmative action in higher education in the 2003 Grutter case, she argued that diversity is a compelling national interest. Social scientist Scott Page has shown that diverse teams perform better than more talented but less diverse teams. As he says: “Diversity trumps ability.” That is the American advantage, in business, sports, and ideas. It is not just nice but necessary for our universities to diversify.That’s why it’s good that there are more Asian Americans in selective colleges than a generation ago – and fewer than scores alone would dictate.

Of course, diversity comes in many forms. The ethnic and socioeconomic diversity within Asian America is usually overlooked in the media. Great numbers of Asian Americans do not fit the model minority or “tiger family” stereotypes, living instead in multigenerational poverty far from the mainstream. Their situation argues for the consideration of class in affirmative action, so that all people who lack social capital can get a fairer shot at social mobility. It also reveals how the current debate is too narrowly focused on the elite.


3. We Can’t Afford Such a Narrow Conversation. In the end, arguing about affirmative action in selective colleges is like arguing about the size of a spigot while ignoring the pool and the pipeline that feed it. Slots at Duke and Princeton and Cal are finite. The bigger question is why there are so few perceived paths to opportunity and why so few people of any color are moving along these paths.

When Justice O’Connor reluctantly affirmed affirmative action in Grutter she challenged the country to make it unnecessary within a quarter century. We are nine years into her challenge – too early, perhaps, for the Roberts Court to discard her carefully constructed precedent; but getting late, certainly, if we are to deliver on the promise of race-neutral opportunity by 2028. People like Harvard Law School professor Charles Ogletree have taken up O’Connor’s call and have catalyzed projects to close racial opportunity gaps in public schools and the criminal justice system. What we need now are a million such O’Connor Projects, led by citizens of every stripe – and by our own government.

It’s time to shift the debate – to ask why opportunity has gotten more scarce in America, to frame our challenge as something bigger than an every-race-for-itself zero-sum fight. Asian Americans can help lead that shift now. And that would be a great American success story.

http://ideas.time.com/2012/03/06/what-asian-americans-reveal-about-affirmative-action/

 

[Haly]

I disagree. Also most people can achieve an higher education. It's an issue for certain people that they didn't get into Yale, but they got into their state school.

People can't face the fact that their application is bland.

Setting aside the gross stereotyping, what do think they to do differently? The parents of these Chinese American children would've fallen under your "Latina" umbrella when they were college age, except I doubt they were ever able to apply to Yale. When they were college age they were likely fleeing the communist regime. What is to be their reward for building a smoother, easier life for their children? Seeing them get passed over because they are no longer victims of sociopolitical upheaval?

I don't approve of voting for Trump for these reasons, not only because it is selfish but also because it's stupid and futile, but I understand where they're coming from. It must be the height of disappointment to overcome the trials of immigration only to discover that your child might've been better off if they had to suffer what you did.

 

[Cels]

i don't like affirmative action either but i wouldn't vote for trump because of it...

 

[Tall4Life]

Chances are, you wont get denied from a college because of affirmative action. Someone didn't take your spot. The ethnic populations of these schools that really use affirmative action is still small as fuck, and AA has been a thing since the 70's. African-Americans and Latinos can probably do more with higher education than you anyway, proportionally. Their populations are already far less college educated, and this trickles down into other things like crime. They can do more with a college education and can improve their communities, while the white and Asian populations have less to gain from more college-educated people.

Its easier to blame the minorities and Affirmative Action for you not getting into your top university than blaming yourself for not being a great candidate.

 

[Vanillalite]

This wouldn't be as big of an issue IMO if we had free tuition as it costs more to go out of state vs instate.

If you want to be an engineer a lot of states with two main big schools usually one ie GT or NCST is the engineering type school and one ala UGA or UNC is the non engineering school.

You might have other options, but they aren't near as good.

Sure you could just go to Clemson or Florida instead, but that's suddenly out of state tuition. So you're getting boned.

If kids had the option at least in terms of public schools to go anywhere without penalty then I think it would lessen the need to "fix" affirmative action.

This obviously can't happen under the current busted ass funding model though. Nor should it.

 

[Darryl M R]

Setting aside the gross stereotyping, what do think they to do differently? The parents of these children would've fallen under your "Latina" umbrella when they were college age, except I doubt they were ever able to apply to Yale. When they were college age they were likely fleeing the communist regime. What is to be their reward for building a smoother, easier life for their children? Seeing them get passed over because they are no longer victims of sociopolitical upheaval?

I don't approve of voting for Trump for these reasons, not only because it is selfish but also because it's stupid and futile, but I understand where they're coming from. It must be the height of disappointment to overcome the trials of immigration only to discover that your child might've been better off if they had to suffer what you did.

"Gross stereotyping" as in making up a scenario for a profile? Do you want to explain yourself? Not once did I say profiles of a poor Korean-American student did not exist.


Also do you mind rewording your post. It doesn't make sense. Are these latinos wealthy or poor? Latinos don't get passed over. Did you mean to write Asian-Americans?

 

[TalonJH]

If people weren't racist, we wouldn't need AA. Voting for a racist isn't going to help that. Nobody actually wants AA.

Spoiler

To be fair, racism isn't going anywhere.

 

[Haly]

"Gross stereotyping" as in making up a scenario for a profile? Do you want to explain yourself? Not once did I say profiles of a poor Korean-American student did not exist.

It's a flippant caricature of Chinese American college applications, part of a running pattern that tends to be unchallenged on GAF, because "oh ho ho those tryhard Chinese Americans kids and their tiger moms amirite guys".

Also do you mind rewording your post. It doesn't make sense. Are these latinos wealthy or poor? Latinos don't get passed over. Did you mean to write Asian-Americans?

Clarified. I meant the Chinese parents of your fictional Chinese-American children with their bland college applications.

 

[The Artisan]

Clinton Holds 41-Point Lead Over Trump Among Asian-American Voters: Survey

Protip for images if on Chrome...Right Click -> Search Google for Image

i tried that and got weird results, but thanks

 

[harSon]

That's funny and all too true. You see a lot of upper middle class people in the bay area who believe that the world is unfair to them.

I went to UC Santa Cruz which wasn't the highest ranked university that I got accepted in to but I chose it because it was close enough to my family that I could still visit my little brother once a month. Yet there were a lot of students (including ones I tutored) who hated being at there "safety school" and wanted to transfer as though that would make any difference. Despite the fact that they let their GPA become garbage and had no interest in doing research/internships beyond how it would look to med schools.

Funny thing is everyone I know who graduated with a good GPA and Letter of Rec is doing great in their careers while those who bitched about the system couldn't even get started.


I think the OPs friends just have fucked up priorities when it comes to trying to get into their top schools.

What college fam? Oaaaaakes represent.

 

[Username1198]

Huh that's a bad reason to vote for trump.

They do realize that when trump says all that shit about JINA he means China, right?

 

[xxracerxx]

i tried that and got weird results, but thanks

Yeah, it was like the sixth result.

 

[Darryl M R]

It's a flippant caricature of Chinese American college applications, part of a running pattern, that tends to be unchallenged, on GAF, because "oh ho ho those tryhard Chinese Americans kids and their tiger moms amirite guys".


Clarified. I meant the Chinese parents of your fictional Chinese-American children with their bland college applications.

I would argue that Asian-Americans that are against AA are:
1. Uninformed on the benefits of AA and how it influences universities to take into consideration an applicant background and look at them holisitically (race, school district performance, wealth, resources, etc--despite it being something they can check a box on adding these elements of your life into your essay is considered a huge bonus to show that you can overcome challenes)
and/or
2. Did not get into their to school because they are a boring applicant which is:
affluent, had been in top schools their entire life and more resources (so they had more resources and should be expected to exceed more in terms of GPA and SAT from prep courses), and their essay wasn't quite motivating (getting a college essay consultant isn't the key here--there is a lack of authenticity in their voice)

I would also argue that poverty (or being lower middle class) humbles you. Instead of thinking "that person cut in front of me for X thing" you accept that you did not receive whatever you wanted. You are less likely to ignore that the effort and quality of your own application plaedy a role into your rejection. You do not feel entitled to everything in life because you know how it feels not to have what you want. So you didn't get accepted to Yale? Big deal, hey you are going to UVA on a 80% scholarship. Woo.

 

[LegendofLex]

The irony is that voting for someone whose policies are likely to damage opportunities for disadvantaged minority groups is pretty much the worst possible way you could try to thwart affirmative action.

1) It'll only intensify the conditions that justify its existence in the first place.

2) It could actually result in the metrics where Asian Americans tend to excel (test scores) actually being minimized or eliminated as considerations for acceptance to institutions of higher education because those metrics (as others have pointed out) would lead to more intense de facto disadvantages for other races and likely extreme disparities in admission rates. We can already guess what'll happen next.

 

[Trojita]

It must be the height of disappointment to overcome the trials of immigration only to discover that your child might've been better off if they had to suffer what you did.

What

That's in the same vein as someone bitching about AA by saying "maybe I should have been born black and poor".

Someone thinking it might have been better for their child to SUFFER for something like better admittance to a favored university is some fucked up shit.

 

[Haly]

I would argue that Asian-Americans that are against AA are:
1. Uninformed on how AA benefits of AA and how it influences universities to take into consideration an applicant background and look at them holisitically

Yes, this is a big blind spot for Asian American parents.

2. Did not get into their to school because they are a boring applicant which is:
affluent, had been in top schools their entire life and more resources (so they had more resources and should be expected to exceed more in terms of GPA and SAT from prep courses), and their essay wasn't quite motivating (getting a college essay consultant isn't the key here--there is a lack of authenticity in their voice)

Also fully possible.

I would also argue that poverty (or being lower middle class) humbles you. Instead of thinking "that person cut in front of me for X thing" you accept that you did not receive whatever you wanted. You are less likely to ignore that the effort and quality of your own application played a role into your rejection. You do not feel entitled to everything in life because you know how it feels not to have what you want.

But this is where I disagree. This is anathema to, at least a part of, Chinese culture, which expects a direct correlation between effort and reward. Yes, maybe these kids have had sheltered, coddled lives relative to low/low-middle class kids, and this gives them a homogeneity of experience that makes college acceptance counselors' eyes glaze over in boredom. So what? They put in the work, both from the students' end as well as the parents'. The rest is demagoguery, as far as they're concerned.

And I would think the parents especially, or these younger voters who plan to be parents, are looking at it from that perspective. Your idea of what poverty does to people is... American-centric; it's a very Western ideal of the struggles of poverty. From my anecdotal experience, it doesn't work like this for Chinese families. I am personally acquainted with only one or two examples of your kind of "narrative", let's call it, and one of them is not even Chinese. These tend to be cases where the parents culturally assimilated very quickly, but I'm confident this is not the norm for a segment of the populace that tends towards ethnic insularity.

Someone thinking it might have been better for their child to SUFFER for something like better admittance to a favored university is some fucked up shit.

Have you encountered the parachute children phenomenon?

Or birth tourism?

During the college process, one of my close friends in highschool once, perhaps sardonically, lamented she's graduating from a magnet high school where she's unable to stand out from the rest of the academic overachievers (among whom she was only above average), rather than from a middling public school where she'd easily excel. The running joke was that it looked better on your college application to be a great student from an average school than an average student from a great school.

I'm sure this mode of thought is very alien to a lot of you, but this is how many Chinese/Chinese Americans think, in my experience. Anything to get ahead. Anything for an advantage, a leg-up, even if it's "artificial" or "ungenuine". "Genuineness" is another very Western idea, by the by. Don't believe me? Just look at the industry of Chinese knock-off brands everyone likes to make fun of. Do you think that came about ex-nihilo?

 

[Strike]

Sounds like they really bought into the model minority myth.

 

[Davidion]

Sorry all, we can't all be smart.

 

[Stinkles]

My anecdote is that all the middle aged and young Chinese people I know are voting for Hillary and all the old ones are literally disgusted by Trump. New jersey, California and Washington state. Probably three dozen people/couples.

That's half of my family. One of them might actually vote Trump but he won't admit it.

 

[Darryl M R]

Yes, this is a big blind spot for Asian American parents.


Also fully possible.


But this is where I disagree. This is anathema to, at least a part of, Chinese culture, which expects a direct correlation between effort and reward. Yes, maybe these kids have had sheltered, coddled lives relative to low/low-middle class kids, and this gives them a homogeneity of experience that makes college acceptance counselors' eyes glaze over in boredom. So what? They put in the work, both from the students' end as well as the parents'. The rest is demagoguery, as far as they're concerned.

And I would think the parents especially, or these younger voters who plan to be parents, are looking at it from that perspective. Your idea of what poverty does to people is... American-centric; it's a very Western ideal of the struggles of poverty. From my anecdotal experience, it doesn't work like this for Chinese families. I am personally acquainted with only one or two examples of your kind of "narrative", let's call it, and one of them is not even Chinese. These tend to bee cases where the parents culturally assimilated very quickly, but I'm confident this is not the norm for a segment of the populace that tends towards ethnic insularity.

Unless I am mistaken, correct me if so, but higher education to a top university isn't something anyone is entitled to. You can be the number 30 student via GPA and SAT score in the nation but if Stanford doesn't want to give you an acceptance letter then you aren't getting one; we already have 29 students that look just like you and have the same story (numbers shrunken for simplicity). I got rejected from my safety schools when I applied to college (Tufts syndrome or I was not a good applicant for those schools); should I be up in arms?

 

[jabuseika]

Good thing the latinos outnumber them.

 

[numble]

I would argue that Asian-Americans that are against AA are:
1. Uninformed on the benefits of AA and how it influences universities to take into consideration an applicant background and look at them holisitically (race, school district performance, wealth, resources, etc--despite it being something they can check a box on adding these elements of your life into your essay is considered a huge bonus to show that you can overcome challenes)
and/or
2. Did not get into their to school because they are a boring applicant which is:
affluent, had been in top schools their entire life and more resources (so they had more resources and should be expected to exceed more in terms of GPA and SAT from prep courses), and their essay wasn't quite motivating (getting a college essay consultant isn't the key here--there is a lack of authenticity in their voice)

I would also argue that poverty (or being lower middle class) humbles you. Instead of thinking "that person cut in front of me for X thing" you accept that you did not receive whatever you wanted. You are less likely to ignore that the effort and quality of your own application plaedy a role into your rejection. You do not feel entitled to everything in life because you know how it feels not to have what you want. So you didn't get accepted to Yale? Big deal, hey you are going to UVA on a 80% scholarship. Woo.

You talked about helping your alma mater with admissions. Did you go to a massive UC or Cal-State school? While some schools have the luxury of doing holistic evaluations, my understanding is that it really isn't that possible with these huge campuses. UCLA had to evaluate over 119,000 applications this year. They will use blunt filtering because they have to.

 

[Haly]

Unless I am mistaken, correct me if so, but higher education to a top university isn't something anyone is entitled to. You can be the number 30 student via GPA and SAT score in the nation but if Stanford doesn't want to give you an acceptance letter then you aren't getting one; we already have 29 students that look just like you and have the same story (numbers shrunken for simplicity). I got rejected from my safety schools when I applied to college (Tufts syndrome or I was not a good applicant for those schools); should I be up in arms?

What you do of your own volition is not my problem or my concern. I'm merely trying to explain a viewpoint many seem to be oblivious to, and lack empathy for. I don't think these Trump voters are right. Indeed, these are the kinds of people that make me wary of any kind of national/cultural/ethnic pride (Chinese-American here). But I understand why they think the way they do, where it's coming from, because I recognize the symptoms in my own parents, and in my upbringing. I'm can't be blind to their plight, anymore than I can disregard my parents' efforts to provide me with a "bland" but comfortable life.

 

[see5harp]

I don't even know why this highly anecdotal story is stirring the pot so much. I know very few Asians that are voting trump regardless of what they may think about affirmative action. Obviously a privately run school like Stanford or Harvard or Yale can do whatever they want with admissions.

 

[therealist]

What are the arguments against AA being based on income and not race?

In the end, since black people are more likely to be impoverished, that group still stands to benefit from AA more than other groups, but it doesn't punish whites or asians who grew up in poorer neighborhoods from achieving their dream of attending Stanford etc.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't even know why this highly anecdotal story is stirring the pot so much. I know very few Asians that are voting trump regardless of what they may think about affirmative action. Obviously a privately run school like Stanford or Harvard or Yale can do whatever they want with admissions.

It's an example of ostensibly intelligent people throwing in with Trump for a very bad reason.

 

[LiK]

As a Chinese-American myself, they can go fuck themselves. Trump won't help them.

 

[numble]

Unless I am mistaken, correct me if so, but higher education to a top university isn't something anyone is entitled to. You can be the number 30 student via GPA and SAT score in the nation but if Stanford doesn't want to give you an acceptance letter then you aren't getting one; we already have 29 students that look just like you and have the same story (numbers shrunken for simplicity). I got rejected from my safety schools when I applied to college (Tufts syndrome or I was not a good applicant for those schools); should I be up in arms?

I don't know why you keep bringing up examples of private schools. The issue is with policies at public California schools, and as they are run by a state government which has a lot of direct democracy options, including the fact that Proposition 209, which benefited Asian-Americans in terms of admission was a policy put in place through a statewide vote. The issue over SCA5 is whether Proposition 209 should be overturned.

 

[leroidys]

It sounds like they fundamentally don't understand what AA is or why it exists.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Why is it interesting? They witnessed first hand how some communist scum destroyed their country and their families, of course they're going to be as far from the left as possible.

they should better recognize the fascistic tendencies of the Republican party.

Yes, this is a big blind spot for Asian American parents.


Also fully possible.


But this is where I disagree. This is anathema to, at least a part of, Chinese culture, which expects a direct correlation between effort and reward. Yes, maybe these kids have had sheltered, coddled lives relative to low/low-middle class kids, and this gives them a homogeneity of experience that makes college acceptance counselors' eyes glaze over in boredom. So what? They put in the work, both from the students' end as well as the parents'. The rest is demagoguery, as far as they're concerned.

And I would think the parents especially, or these younger voters who plan to be parents, are looking at it from that perspective. Your idea of what poverty does to people is... American-centric; it's a very Western ideal of the struggles of poverty. From my anecdotal experience, it doesn't work like this for Chinese families. I am personally acquainted with only one or two examples of your kind of "narrative", let's call it, and one of them is not even Chinese. These tend to be cases where the parents culturally assimilated very quickly, but I'm confident this is not the norm for a segment of the populace that tends towards ethnic insularity.


Have you encountered the parachute children phenomenon?

Or birth tourism?

During the college process, one of my close friends in highschool once, perhaps sardonically, lamented she's graduating from a magnet high school where she's unable to stand out from the rest of the academic overachievers (among whom she was only above average), rather than from a middling public school where she'd easily excel. The running joke was that it looked better on your college application to be a great student from an average school than an average student from a great school.

I'm sure this mode of thought is very alien to a lot of you, but this is how many Chinese/Chinese Americans think, in my experience. Anything to get ahead. Anything for an advantage, a leg-up, even if it's "artificial" or "ungenuine". "Genuineness" is another very Western idea, by the by. Don't believe me? Just look at the industry of Chinese knock-off brands everyone likes to make fun of. Do you think that came about ex-nihilo?

well in real life, whether western or otherwise, hard work doesn't (I'd argue most times) translate into what you want. it's a mix of things, who you know, right place right time type of things. sounds to me like a lot of Chinese can't accept the affect the fact that sometimes, you lose. plain and simple.

 

[talisayNon]

https://newrepublic.com/article/73365/disadvantages



But as the article notes, it's complicated.

the issue here is not that Asians need to score 450 to equal blacks.

The issue is that they need to score 140 points more than whites. That's white supremacy at it's finest. And it's bullshit.

 

[see5harp]

It's an example of ostensibly intelligent people throwing in with Trump for a very bad reason.

I could say the same about my good friend who is Mexican and voting trump. Without any information about them I highly doubt affirmative action is the only reason they are voting republican. No poll data in California supports that trump is getting a massive amount of support from Mexicans or Asians in California.