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SNES vs Genesis Sound

Xilo

Member
It really matters how someone uses the sound in each system. For example, the Genesis technically has inferior sound but if you listen to the shadowrun soundtrack it's perfect. They use it in a way that works perfectly for the game.
 
SNES had a better sound chip and way more legendary soundtracks but the Sega Genesis soundchip had this incredibly awesome synthy sound that was unique to the system. It was always easy to identify a genesis game by music because it was so unique.

I thought the Genesis did audio/voice samples better than the Snes (in game comparisons anyway).
 

Opa-Pa

Member
I thought the Genesis did audio/voice samples better than the Snes (in game comparisons anyway).

For real? I adore the Genesis sound, but I find voice samples in its game unbearable. Earthworm Jim is unplayable for me due to this, which sucks because I love the music.

I'm not fond of voice samples if games of that gen in general, but SNES ones at least aren't offensively bad.
 

lazygecko

Member
What's so bad about the EWJ samples?

Sample quality is all over the board on the Genesis, ranging from awful to great depending on both the sample rate itself and how robust the driver software is. But for some reason people tend to only remember the really bad ones. At its best, voices and SFX samples are better and clearer than on the SNES because they aren't bottlenecked by rigid RAM restrictions like the SPC700 has, and samples can be loaded in and out on the fly as needed. Tommy Tallarico and Treasure games in particular make heavy use of samples at a scope the SNES simply isn't capable of. On the SNES you have to worry about both cart size and memory allocation for both music and sfx/voice samples at the same time, whereas on the Genesis you only have to worry about cart size.
 

Ramune

Member
What's so bad about the EWJ samples?

Sample quality is all over the board on the Genesis, ranging from awful to great depending on both the sample rate itself and how robust the driver software is. But for some reason people tend to only remember the really bad ones. At its best, voices and SFX samples are better and clearer than on the SNES because they aren't bottlenecked by rigid RAM restrictions like the SPC700 has, and samples can be loaded in and out on the fly as needed. Tommy Tallarico and Treasure games in particular make heavy use of samples at a scope the SNES simply isn't capable of. On the SNES you have to worry about both cart size and memory allocation for both music and sfx/voice samples at the same time, whereas on the Genesis you only have to worry about cart size.

Yeah, take Yu Yu Hakusho by Treasure for example. And it uses a LOT of voices too. I was pretty surprised by how clear the voices were in this game (since it's one I actually own)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35IzExMagMs
 

Opa-Pa

Member
I honestly don't know if it's just an emulation issue, because I've never played it on actual hardware, but the game is plagued with voice samples and cartoony sound effects that are all incredibly loud, like every single action produces a loud sound so enjoying the background music is impossible.

I had no idea the Genesis had more liberty with them in general tho, that's neat. It really is an impressive machine.
 

dogen

Member
I freshly stand by my earlier stated conviction that Norrin_Radd.....IS Rad:



Hits a nice range, my personal picks being Tomb of Sentient Ooze and Behemoth Groove---but surely there are other standouts given it is consistently on point for what it is, a badass modern Genesis FM Album with a game helping to beget the lot of it.

So good~!

Damn, I had no idea it was that good. I need to get back to watching his videos on this stuff.
 

Shaneus

Member
I freshly stand by my earlier stated conviction that Norrin_Radd.....IS Rad:

https://mattcreameraudio.bandcamp.com/album/treasure-buster-original-soundtrack

Hits a nice range, my personal picks being Tomb of Sentient Ooze and Behemoth Groove---but surely there are other standouts given it is consistently on point for what it is, a badass modern Genesis FM Album with a game helping to beget the lot of it.

So good~!
What game is that from? I could only find a Treasure Buster on iOS.
 

neos

Member
Found this in a Youtube comment of an Earthworm Jim OST video, i think it's in some way relevant to the thread:

atlink (Youtube Account) said:
To anyone who is wondering about the SNES vs Genesis debate, it is really simple, but I'm about to overly explain things for you.

The music for EWJ was written originally for the Genesis. The Genesis uses an FM Synth for its music, and has a few sound channels for "samples", meaning audio clips, such as voice, or other sound effects that couldn't be created with the different Synthesizer noises (square waves, triangle waves, saw waves, etc.). Because the music was written originally for this set of hardware, a few extra tricks were allowed to make the sound more full. The synthesizer can produce sustains, reverb, and fantastic stereo separation, although the samples could not (they could be switched to left, right, and both channels, but could not smoothly "pan" across like some sounds do).

The SNES did not have an FM Synth in it, and instead relied on a chip that contained "samples". Because of this, developers were very limited in what the audio could do, unless they provided their own samples. The reason the SNES sounded so muddy was due to space constraints on the cartridge. EWJ was a very vibrant and colorful game with a lot of animation and sound effects. Factor in the need to have a sample for each instrument in almost every song (if not every), and your space starts to get smaller. Because of this, the samples were compressed to a very low bitrate, much like an MP3 being compressed further and further. The lower the bitrate of the audio file, the smaller the size, however, the worse it sounds. Also, since these were samples, the SNES couldn't stretch and warp the sounds much like the Genesis could (although it could change the pitch). On top of all of that, only so many sounds could be played at once. The Genesis also had these limitations, but was able to cope much better.

On the plus side for the SNES, however was that many games looking for a more realistic sound had much better success on the SNES due to the fact that "real instruments" could be played. The developers could simply record a single note from any instrument, put it into the code of the game, and then alter the pitch as needed. Because of that, games had a much more "realistic" sound.

Both systems did a great job at the music, but ultimately it comes down to one simple fact: The music is going to sound better when it's playing off the hardware it was designed for. In essence, the SNES music was like a port of the Genesis music, and just like a port of a game to another console, some things get lost in translation. Doesn't mean it's worse, but it's not the exact same.

That was far more explanation than was needed, but I'm sure someone will have enjoyed a small lesson in MIDI music.

Probably this gives also an explanation on how that Rock'n'Roll tune was probably composed first on SNES using samples from guitars and then was just emulated via FM synthesis on the genesis (yeah, in a bad way, but if you have a minimun of knowledge in FM synthesis you should have an idea of how complicate could have been recreating real life sounds with the hardware limitations of the time).
 

Datschge

Member
I honestly don't know if it's just an emulation issue, because I've never played it on actual hardware, but the game is plagued with voice samples and cartoony sound effects that are all incredibly loud, like every single action produces a loud sound so enjoying the background music is impossible.
While the Genesis had more liberties streaming samples directly from the cart, the dynamic range is more limited and the ability to master its output volume is more rudimentary (unless the developers goes for costly software mixing like on N64 and GBA). This often causes samples to overpower the FM synth.
 

Shaneus

Member
I thought the Genesis did audio/voice samples better than the Snes (in game comparisons anyway).
Strange thing is, I'm sure I recall reviews of NBA Jam giving audio preference to the SNES version for having clearer sound. And growing up, I thought in general I read SNES games generally had better quality samples. Odd.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqBKAsyVqBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQiVceLMTo


Wondering why nobody mentions this game at all. The music is insanely good.

Nifty find----the reason though is most of what tunes sega folk know hinges on the games actually getting a full on western release or the generally rare fan translations. One day I'll just go through the list alphabetically on the global front and scour YT for those I don't recognize or seem the most unlikely, as you never know. Like this somebody elsewhere put out there which is damn fine/onto something like some kind of (un?)holy union of C64/Amiga sensibilities and Genesis magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydx3nMFbuWQ

Like, I'm sure Surging Aura has some good tunes to it that fit the material as one of the last high end jRPGs the system saw, but as thus far only Jp and French audiences can yet behold said probable splendor in full...
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Strange thing is, I'm sure I recall reviews of NBA Jam giving audio preference to the SNES version for having clearer sound. And growing up, I thought in general I read SNES games generally had better quality samples. Odd.

I think for the most part it did.
 

dogen

Member
Nifty find----the reason though is most of what tunes sega folk know hinges on the games actually getting a full on western release or the generally rare fan translations. One day I'll just go through the list alphabetically on the global front and scour YT for those I don't recognize or seem the most unlikely, as you never know. Like this somebody elsewhere put out there which is damn fine/onto something like some kind of (un?)hold union of C64/Amiga sensibilities and Genesis magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydx3nMFbuWQ

Like, I'm sure Surging Aura has some good tunes to it that fit the material as one of the last high end jRPGs the system saw, but as thus far only Jp and French audiences can yet behold said probable splendor in full...

Yeah, I know it's super obscure, I was just surprised I'd NEVER heard of it until a few days ago, when I've been listening to and collecting game music for years now.

That combat cars track is awesome too. Thanks.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
You take the Streetfighter 2 port on the genesis, the voice samples on that were horrible, the characters sounded as if they had a sore-throat!

Instances like that reminded you that you were playing on a genesis game, and not the superior SNES version..that was one of the key weaknesses of the system it's sound chip..(along with its limited colour palette, but that's another issue)
 

Sapiens

Member
You take the Streetfighter 2 port on the genesis, the voice samples on that were horrible, the characters sounded as if they had a sore-throat!

Instances like that reminded you that you were playing on a genesis game, and not the superior SNES version..that was one of the key weaknesses of the system it's sound chip..(along with its limited colour palette, but that's another issue)

There's recently been a hack (that runs on real hardware) that proves the MD was more than capable of playing those samples at a good quality.

It was just a shitty port, not the hardware. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Mx7w0O_oc
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
There's recently been a hack (that runs on real hardware) that proves the MD was more than capable of playing those samples at a good quality.

It was just a shitty port, not the hardware. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Mx7w0O_oc

Yeah there was a video on Megadrive sample quality too, I don't remember if it was posted in this thread or not, but the guy explained that you had to do samples properly for them to come out right on the hardware, not that it was impsosible to make it sound good.

Those drum samples in that hack are great

Hahahaha! It's funny see Super Nes people proving their ignorance by stating Genny Earthworm Jim has bad voice samples!

Zoop - Mexican Flavor - Genesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuSOya6BsQ&index=7&list=PLA67E9CB65F4FE8DA

Zoop - Mexican Flavor - Snes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0c9KNIobUo&list=PL35E5D490EE74AA35&index=5

What's the bass? Poor Nintendo...

I think both of those sound good actually, the bass sample used on the SNES is really thumpy, I like it. The percussion sounds much better on the Genesis though
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Well in some respects you could say you had to put in more of an effort to get decent sound out of Sega's machine as compared to the SNES..can't understand why Capcom would pull back on sound-quality..takes a hack to sort out their wrong-doings..

I admit in capable hands the genesis isn't always bad...thunderforce from 1992 was a prime example and many others on here show in capable hands you could get decent audio if you tried hard-enough...
 

Ramune

Member
I honestly don't know if it's just an emulation issue, because I've never played it on actual hardware, but the game is plagued with voice samples and cartoony sound effects that are all incredibly loud, like every single action produces a loud sound so enjoying the background music is impossible.

I had no idea the Genesis had more liberty with them in general tho, that's neat. It really is an impressive machine.

I tried playing the game a few days ago, and honestly, I was too focused on fighting to enjoy the background music fully, ha ha! I know what you mean though. The sound is quite loud. Here's the OST from a real console:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loard4rph8Y

Think the composer did the Mega Drive Sailor Moon game too, so it has a similar sound to that game as well. ^_^
 

lazygecko

Member
SNES produced better quality sound.

Is this really being debated?

Yes it is. From a raw fidelity standpoint, SNES hardware is objectively worse. But the topic is way more complex and multi-faceted than that which goes back and forth on several points beyond what the layman can typically quantify. That includes notions about being more "realistic" which is kind of bogus if you care to look deeper than what your impressions are at the superficial surface level.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Yes it is. From a raw fidelity standpoint, SNES hardware is objectively worse. But the topic is way more complex and multi-faceted than that which goes back and forth on several points beyond what the layman can typically quantify. That includes notions about being more "realistic" which is kind of bogus if you care to look deeper than what your impressions are at the superficial surface level.

Yeah if we're just talking pure sound quality, it's way different since it uses samples, not really comparable, they were built to do different things.

If cartridges were ginormous (at the time) we could have had stuff sounding like this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_60V8UdYEY :p
 

Aquova

Member

Easy_D

never left the stone age
The Bloodlines version of Vampire Killer isn't even the best song of the soundtrack, what you want is Theme of Simon and Prayer of a Tragic Queen. Granted the latter has no percussion to speak of, but it's amazing, doubt the song would have the same feeling on the SNES. Anyone know if Michiru Yamane did any other Genesis soundtracks?
 

Aquova

Member
The Bloodlines version of Vampire Killer isn't even the best song of the soundtrack, what you want is Theme of Simon and Prayer of a Tragic Queen. Granted the latter has no percussion to speak of, but it's amazing, doubt the song would have the same feeling on the SNES. Anyone know if Michiru Yamane did any other Genesis soundtracks?

I'll take your Theme of Simon, and raise you one Bloody Tears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRYxLYi7qqo

She worked on the Rocket Knight Adventures and Contra: Hard Corps soundtracks. I'm pretty sure there's a Casltevania song in Hard Corps, but I can't remember which one. EDIT: I found it, it's a... bizarre rendition of Vampire Killer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0iC3CuRCgk
 

Pachinko

Member
The SNES chip was technically superior in what it COULD do but so many composers mastered that FM synth on the genesis and made such great use of it's bass that it's got way punchier music.

So stuff that used FM keyboard level samples in the hands just sounds fantastic. Rocket Knight Adventures you just didn't hear stuff like this on the snes that often.

Likewise, the genesis literally wasn't capable of music like Donkey Kong Country Aquatic Ambience

Higher quality samples with more sound channels available versus punchier bass and tinnier treble.

It's also not so much that you NEVER heard a flip flop of my links above either , Mega Man X has a pretty punchy soundtrack, as does Contra 3 The alien wars but it's punchy in a different way than the genesis would be. Likewise, on the genesis take a listen to the Vilii people stage from earthworm jim 2 - it's pretty much moonlight sonata and it's... just kind of off.
 

dogen

Member
Likewise, the genesis literally wasn't capable of music like [URL=" Kong Country Aquatic Ambience[/URL]

Why not?

Higher quality samples with more sound channels available versus punchier bass and tinnier treble.

The SNES generally had better samples, but had a very small amount of memory for them. Also the genesis actually had more sound channels. 9 or 10(depending on how you use the noise channel)vs 8 with the SNES.
 

jett

D-Member
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