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PS4 PRO: for best IQ (Native 4k + HDR + 60 HZ + 4:4:4) 2160p-YUV420 or 2160p-RGB?

C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
sloppyjoe_gamer said:
Reading this thread trying to find out which PS4 video setting I should use with my 4K HDR TV:

chalkboard-620x354.jpg
Click to expand...

It's not that complicated, we just like to talk in circles around here.

HDR TV? YUV420
No HDR? RGB.

There's 2 options to pick from and dudes are blowing a gasket.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
dark10x said:
I think if you use the "automatic" setting you'll get RGB for non-HDR content and 420 when it's required. Need to test.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I trust the automatic settings.

After all, the RGB Range automatic setting is fucking terrible. The PS4 tends to assume limited on PC monitors that are typically full. It's like it's guessing 50% of the time and you'll get a washed out image.

Chamber said:
It's not that complicated, we just like to talk in circles around here.

Yes HDR TV? Put it on YUV420
No HDR TV? Put it on RGB.

There's 2 options to pick from and dudes are blowing a gasket.
Click to expand...

Somebody put this in the OP, LOL.
 
sloppyjoe_gamer

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Allow me to add to this already massive pile of confusion lol....

If you have the LG 49UH6100, (4K HDR set) there is currently an issue that LG is working on a firmware fix for, where if you have Game mode enabled on the HDMI input you're using, HDR will NOT work.

Other tidbit I found out while waiting for my Pro Thursday.....all 3 HDMI inputs on the tv are HDCP 2.2 so you won't have to use a specific HDMI port.

Just sharing some facts, hopefully this helps someone.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
jonno394 said:
I believe that the general consensus is that when 4k gaming Full, watching 4k TV/Films Limited
Click to expand...

Well, it depends on what your TV is. The PS4 and TV have to match.

As far as I know:

99% of TV's default to limited, so set your PS4 to limited.

99% of PC monitors default to full, so set your PS4 to full.

What I do know for a fact, is that the 'automatic' RGB settings on PS4 is hit or miss. Especially on PC monitors. Every PC monitor I hooked up to my PS4, the automatic setting got it wrong. My PC monitor is clearly at full RGB range, yet on automatic, the PS4 is outputting a limited RGB color range. I made a thread talking about this.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Aceofspades said:
Quoting myself from 2 months ago..



its truly just like 2006 to me, at the time TV were advertised as "HD Ready" while in fact they were only 720p. better wait for the next wave of displays next year and hopefully a better standardization of the tech.

EDIT: Top of the page :(
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this.
 
D

DJ Lushious

Member
Chamber said:
It's not that complicated, we just like to talk in circles around here.

HDR TV? YUV420
No HDR? RGB.

There's 2 options to pick from and dudes are blowing a gasket.
Click to expand...
I legit LOL'd at this!
lowhighkang_LHK said:
I don't know if I trust the automatic settings.

After all, the RGB Range automatic setting is fucking terrible. The PS4 tends to assume limited on PC monitors that are typically full. It's like it's guessing 50% of the time and you'll get a washed out image.



Somebody put this in the OP, LOL.
Click to expand...
Not trusting the automatic settings isn't necessarily a PS4 Pro issue. It's up to the UHDTV reporting what it can handle, set up during the initial handshaking.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
PLASTICA-MAN said:
I think Team YUV is the way to go for the time being until TVs that allow HDR10 in RGB 4:4:4 are out, then we switch teams.

Btw what does YUV mean?
Click to expand...
There will be no team switching. The PS4 Pro is an HDMI 2.0 device. 10-bit RGB 4K60 is never going to be possible unless a new model is updated with the improved standard.

It's still not clear when the next iteration will hit or what it will entail.
 
A

Alej

Banned
PLASTICA-MAN said:
I think Team YUV is the way to go for the time being until TVs that allow HDR10 in RGB 4:4:4 are out, then we switch teams.

Btw what does YUV mean?
Click to expand...

YUV isn't the way to go at all. You don't want to be blocked in yuv420 for all the titles not supporting HDR.

YUV420 is definitely for old UHD TVs not supporting 444 at 4K60p. Like Bravia2015s before the update, without the enhanced mode.

You should go for automatic. Or rgb444 if it doesn't pair correctly, but we don't know what happen exactly when trying an HDR/4K title with this setting (common sense would be it detect HDR and flips to YUV420 like it already does with blu-ray movies since PS3*).

*PS3 has a a/v setting YUV/RGB. With RGB, you have rgb444 if your tv supports it. But then, when playing a bluray, for example, it switches to YUV420 automatically. I think thebsame happens automatically since PS4 launch with the system defaulting without your consent (lol) to RGB and switching if needed. I think they added the setting on PS4 Pro for compatibility reasons because some TVs won't be compatible with RGB444 in 4K60.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
DJ Lushious said:
I legit LOL'd at this!

Not trusting the automatic settings isn't necessarily a PS4 Pro issue. It's up to the UHDTV reporting what it can handle, set up during the initial handshaking.
Click to expand...

True. What's it called, the EDID or something. Regardless, it's always best to set settings specifically if you're in the know.
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
dark10x said:
There will be no team switching. The PS4 Pro is an HDMI 2.0 device. 10-bit RGB 4K60 is never going to be possible unless a new model is updated with the improved standard.
Click to expand...
Just like the original PS4 was an HDMI 1.4 device that could never do HDR unless you got a new model? ;)
 
S

SonicAaron

Member
Alej said:
YUV isn't the way to go at all. You don't want to be blocked in yuv420 for all the titles not supporting HDR.

YUV420 is definitely for old UHD TVs not supporting 444 at 4K60p. Like Bravia2015s before the update, without the enhanced mode.

You should go for automatic. Or rgb444 if it doesn't pair correctly, but we don't know what happen exactly when trying an HDR/4K title with this setting (common sense would be it detect HDR and flips to YUV420 like it already does with blu-ray movies since PS3*).

*PS3 has a a/v setting YUV/RGB. With RGB, you have rgb444 if your tv supports it. But then, when playing a bluray, for example, it switches to YUV420 automatically. I think thebsame happens automatically since PS4 launch with the system defaulting without your consent (lol) to RGB and switching if needed. I think they added the setting on PS4 Pro for compatibility reasons because some TVs won't be compatible with RGB444 in 4K60.
Click to expand...

If full limited is anything to go by it won't pair automatically correctly and you'll not get HDR :S
 
A

Alej

Banned
SonicAaron said:
If full limited is anything to go by it won't pair automatically correctly and you'll not get HDR :S
Click to expand...

False. It's just the EDID in some monitors not doing things right.

Automatic setting function normally on TVs.
It defaults to Full on my x83c with the TV being in "auto" too for that HDMI. And it displays the correct range.

And just so you know, there is an independent HDR setting, and the correct one for that is "automatic". As deep color is.

Everything should be in automatic if no problem arises from it.
 
T

Tagg9

Member
I don't understand how sites like rtings.com are able to say that a TV supports "4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR" when supposedly there is no HDMI spec that enables that?! How exactly are they getting that signal to the TV?!
 
A

Alej

Banned
Tagg9 said:
I don't understand how sites like rtings.com are able to say that a TV supports "4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR" when supposedly there is no HDMI spec that enables that?! How exactly are they getting that signal to the TV?!
Click to expand...

In-app, internal storage or usb.
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Tagg9 said:
I don't understand how sites like rtings.com are able to say that a TV supports "4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR" when supposedly there is no HDMI spec that enables that?! How exactly are they getting that signal to the TV?!
Click to expand...

Well....

dark10x said:
RTINGS has really confused so many people with that diagram.

Yes, you can use HDR with 8-bit color which means 4:4:4 at 4K60 + HDR is possible. It simply results in very noticeable color banding in many areas of the image (depending on how the material takes advantage of this feature).
Click to expand...

What is not possible is the newer HDR with 10-bit color.


What I am more curious about is if there is any drawback in setting it to automatic and letting PS4pro decide. Does it ever choose poorly? Can it?
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Aceofspades said:
Quoting myself from 2 months ago..



its truly just like 2006 to me, at the time TV were advertised as "HD Ready" while in fact they were only 720p. better wait for the next wave of displays next year and hopefully a better standardization of the tech.

EDIT: Top of the page :(
Click to expand...

Except 720p is HD. A 4K TV is still a 4K tv, just because one has 10 bit instead of 8 bit doesn't change the resolution and what it is. HDR and others are added features, that leads up to something being called premium or not.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Liabe Brave said:
Just like the original PS4 was an HDMI 1.4 device that could never do HDR unless you got a new model? ;)
Click to expand...
There is a huge difference there.

HDMI 1.4 can even do 4K at 8-bit 4:2:0.

The PS4 only outputs 1080p with HDR metadata which does not exceed the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4

The reason 10-bit RGB 4K60 isn't possible on HDMI 2.0 is a limitation of bandwidth. HDMI 1.4 in the standard PS4 has enough bandwidth to support HDR - the question around it was simply whether or not TVs could accept HDR metadata from a 1080p source. We quickly discovered that they can indeed!
 
Y

Yiorgos

Member
When selecting YUV i think what you set RGB( full or limited) does not matter. Probably its going to be greyed out. Like when selecting YCbCr( same as YUV) from my samsusng uhd player the option on the tv for the RGB( full or limited) is greyed out. Its a 2016 4k hdr tv.
 
M

Mindman

Member
So is the color banding from HDR-8 all that common, or noticeable? I mean, we still have 16.7 million colors to display with that right?

If someone has experience with this please let us know. I can't stomach the thought of losing 4:4:4 for 10-bit color.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
dark10x said:
There is a huge difference there.

HDMI 1.4 can even do 4K at 8-bit 4:2:0.

The PS4 only outputs 1080p with HDR metadata which does not exceed the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4

The reason 10-bit RGB 4K60 isn't possible on HDMI 2.0 is a limitation of bandwidth. HDMI 1.4 in the standard PS4 has enough bandwidth to support HDR - the question around it was simply whether or not TVs could accept HDR metadata from a 1080p source. We quickly discovered that they can indeed!
Click to expand...

So if I buy a 4k HDR tv i dont have to worry about any of this?

The other setting is for people who dont have a 4k TV with HDR?

What is this discussion about 4k at 60 fps then? Isnt TitanFall running at 4k 60 fps? Am I not going to get the best HDR in Titanfall? Is HDR only good for 4k 30 fps games like Tomb Raider and Infamous?

I am confused!!!
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Mindman said:
So is the color banding from HDR-8 all that common, or noticeable? I mean, we still have 16.7 million colors to display with that right?

If someone has experience with this please let us know. I can't stomach the thought of losing 4:4:4 for 10-bit color.
Click to expand...
I really think you need to see it for yourself.

Try playing a game in 4:2:0 and you'll see that, at 4K, it doesn't really have a significant impact on quality from a normal viewing distance (4-5ft from a 55", for example).

The entire point of HDR (when used properly) is to take advantage of the wider color spectrum.

Using Shadow Warrior 2 as an example, playing in 8-bit RGB mode looks AWFUL with HDR enabled in many scenes. The dramatic color gradients used in the sky, for instance, appear horribly posterized with very obvious banding. It just looks incorrect since this mode was designed to utilize 10-bits per channel.

What I'm saying is that 4:4:4 + 8-bit + HDR looks much worse, image quality wise, than 4:2:0 + 10-bit + HDR.

So if I buy a 4k HDR tv i dont have to worry about any of this?

The other setting is for people who dont have a 4k TV with HDR?
Click to expand...
Yes, you will. ALL TVs are limited by the HDMI 2.0 standard.

You can go 4K60 + 8-bits per channel + RGB on an HDMI 2.0 compliant display.

Or you can go 4K60 + 10 or 12-bits per channel + 4:2:0 in order to enjoy HDR properly.

No display can support 4K60 + 10-bit + RGB right now. It's impossible due to HDMI bandwidth limitations.

If you're concerned about this, I would wait and see what the next iteration of the standard holds and which TVs will utilize it.
 
I

iTehDroiD

Neo Member
blu said:
Erm, RGB is not a luma/chroma format.
Click to expand...

Yea I should have said that I mean the RGB setting in the screenshot.

RGB can be 4:4:4 or 4:2:0. Just subsample a YUV signal and convert it to RGB and you have your subsampled RGB signal. In this case RGB means no subsampling has been done.
 
F

family_guy

Member
dr_rus said:
That's encoding, storage. Decoder can easily recreate the missing color gradients with math so even on UHD movies you may see better results using RGB/444 on the display output.



OP, RGB is generally better, always, however there's a catch with 4K HDR10 on HDMI 2.0, where you pretty much have to use lower detail chroma subsampling to have enough HDMI bandwidth for 10-bit color.
Click to expand...

Don't these contradict each other? If I can't get HDR 10(which makes UHD worth it IMO) when I set it to RGB then why would I see better results with movies?
 
D

d9b

Banned
So YUV420 for 4K60 + 10 or 12-bits per channel + 4:2:0 (in order to enjoy HDR properly)?

Am I getting this right?
 
A

Alej

Banned
Jaybad54 said:
Surely thats the most important thing in this thread
Click to expand...

It's very very true. But it's not saying yuv420 setting is ideal. In fact it isn't.

The way to go is automatic OR rgb444 if any HDR defaults defacto to yuv420 when hdr enabled (should be).

If you force yuv420, games not supporting hdr would be yuv420 instead of rgb. Yuv420 at system level should be for UHD TVs incompatible with 4k60p in rgb.


d9b said:
So YUV420 for 4K60 + 10 or 12-bits per channel + 4:2:0 (in order to enjoy HDR properly)?

Am I getting this right?
Click to expand...

Yup. HDR10 and 4K output require YUV420. That doesn't say you should force it in the settings at system level as i just say.
 
J

Jaybad54

Neo Member
Alej said:
It's very very true. But it's not saying yuv420 setting is ideal. In fact it isn't.

The way to go is automatic OR rgb444 if any HDR defaults defacto to yuv420 when hdr enabled (should be).

If you force yuv420, games not supporting hdr would be yuv420 instead of rgb. Yuv420 at system level should be for UHD TVs incompatible with 4k60p in rgb.
Click to expand...

Will have to keep an eye on how reliable the "automatic" setting on the pro is then, I know I have had problems with my original PS4 in the past. I guess a workaround up until then would be to switch between YUV420 and RGB depending whether or not HDR is available for the game you are playing.
 
A

Alej

Banned
dark10x said:
Yup
Click to expand...

How is behaving 2160p RGB mode when HDR is activated? Does it switches to subsampling or 8bits? It's key here.

Jaybad54 said:
Will have to keep an eye on how reliable the "automatic" setting on the pro is then, I know I have had problems with my original PS4 in the past. I guess a workaround up until then would be to switch between YUV420 and RGB depending whether or not HDR is available for the game you are playing.
Click to expand...

Indeed.
 
D

d9b

Banned
Now the question is...

If I have HDR enabled in my TV's settings and PS4 Pro set to Automatic, would my Pro decide to default to YUV420 regardless of whether the game have HDR or not since my TV is accepting that signal?


I hope you can understand my question, because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I'm trying. ;P
 
V

Vuze

Member
d9b said:
Now the question is...

If I have HDR enabled in my TV's settings and PS4 Pro set to Automatic, would my Pro decide to default to YUV420 regardless of whether the game have HDR or not since my TV is accepting that signal?


I hope you can understand my question, because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I'm trying. ;P
Click to expand...
Why would you do something pointless like artificially forcing HDR interpretation on a SDR signal in the first place?
But no. Console would still be aware it's sending a SDR signal so unless you force 4:2:0 in the settings it should send the SDR signal as RGB. Obviously we need to wait for hands on reports but this would be the only sensible design decision.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
d9b said:
Now the question is...

If I have HDR enabled in my TV's settings and PS4 Pro set to Automatic, would my Pro decide to default to YUV420 regardless of whether the game have HDR or not since my TV is accepting that signal?


I hope you can understand my question, because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I'm trying. ;P
Click to expand...

I think you should check if a game has HDR support, if it has you choose YUV 420 to enjoy HDR10, if it doesn't support HDR then stay with RGB to enjoy Chroma 4:4:4. I don't think automatic is very trustworthy. Keep in mind, not only you have to activate HDR in your TV, but also you have to activate it in PS4/ PS4 PRO settings and 2160p YUV 420 in video settings besides activating in the game options like with Uncharted 4. This, if we know the games that support HDR but we don't know them all.

Sony should have made a detailed walkthrough how to enable it and explain the differences in both modes.
 
A

Alej

Banned
d9b said:
Now the question is...

If I have HDR enabled in my TV's settings and PS4 Pro set to Automatic, would my Pro decide to default to YUV420 regardless of whether the game have HDR or not since my TV is accepting that signal?


I hope you can understand my question, because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I'm trying. ;P
Click to expand...

This is tricky. The PS4 pro shouldn't go to YUV420 for non-hdr games. PS4 doesn't go to YUV420 for any game.

This is a setting about resolution and signal format, not HDR.
 
N

NewDust

Member
Alej said:
This is tricky. The PS4 pro shouldn't go to YUV420 for non-hdr games. PS4 doesn't go to YUV420 for any game.

This is a setting about resolution and signal format, not HDR.
Click to expand...

The PS4 isn't hamstrung by bandwidth, so of course it wouldn't revert to yuv420.
 
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