family_guy
Member
UHD movies with HDR are 4:2:0, so I'll stick with that.
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PS4 PRO: for best IQ (Native 4k + HDR + 60 HZ + 4:4:4) 2160p-YUV420 or 2160p-RGB?
- Thread starter PLASTICA-MAN
- Start date
thatJohann
Member
This is ridiculously confusing. For the first time ever I am throwing my hands up in the air and saying fuck it. This HDR / 4K tech needs to mature so it's easy to follow. It seems like a huge clusterfuck right now. I feel completely clueless like my dad would if I was talking about tech. Either I'm growing old or this is a mess.
PeskyToaster
Member
So I have a Visio 4k with a 60 hz port so I'd go with the RGB. Mines not HDR capable tho
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Older TVs didn't allow 4:4:4 in 4K@60FPS, so either 4:4:4: in 4K@30FPS or 4:2:0 in 4K@60FPS only. Newer TVs allow RGB 4:4:4: in 4K@60FPS + HDR8 or 4:2:0 in 4K@60FPS + HDR10.
ShadowRunner
Member
So this is an assumption based on the current HDMI spec used in PS4 Pro. Is this a safe assumption to make? Im sure the PS3 did things above and beyond what was thought possible due to its HDMI version if i remember correctly. Also Samsung have said they will be looking to add Dynamic Metadata to thier HDR TV's via an update even though it is not part of the current HDMI spec.
As far as i am aware the HDMI spec would be a minimum set of standards that must be complied with but surely that doesn't mean features can not be included above and beyond this?
As far as i am aware the HDMI spec would be a minimum set of standards that must be complied with but surely that doesn't mean features can not be included above and beyond this?
Thanks for the details, but I think he meant that this 2160p 4:2:0 problem would only affect games at 60fps and not the ones at 30fps, which I believe is not the case unless I am missing something.
DangerMouse
Member
Really grievous? It's true that it would be nice if there were no tradeoff with HDMI at 60fps like 30fps, but 4K HDR 60fps 4:2:0 is plenty capable of "melting your eyeballs" with impressive eyecandy. Just like 4K Blu-Ray which also is limited to 4:2:0.
This. It's not that it's not there of course but it's reportedly and in my small sampling I seem to remember it's most noticeable up close to the screen (like with a monitor) and on things like when on Windows itself with all of that tiny fine text. HDR will be much more noticeable between the two, especially on console made for TV. Just like 4K Blu-ray, games will likely be tested with this spec limitation in mind.
Don't you need another option...? e.g.;
You have a 4k TV that has HDR but you don't want to (or can't) run a game higher than 30fps: rgb444
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is a fucking joke. What a disaster. They should've just taken some chances and put in a better CPU to try and hit 60 fps, but nope, lets save some cash and make people buy thousand dollar TVs just so they can run the same game at 4K HDR and even then they might not get the best results.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
Aceofspades
Banned
4K and HDR is the next logical step, just hook up your HDMI cable and don't overthink it.
You are overreacting here.
I had to read this a few times to grasp what you were on about, ignore my initial post if you;ve seen it!
what are you even talking about right now
every single device on the planet connected with HDMI cables has this limitation
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
You know when enabling Game Mode, all the post processing tools and supersampling effects are turned off which isn't the case when playing movies. So you will get a noticeable loss in details and IQ in Game Mode. This will be accentuated with the attenuation of colour grading and details if you use 4:2:0 or HDR8. What would be the purpose of highlighting HDR and better colours in the recent talks if we are stuck to use last-gen modes?
What a clusterfuck. I just learned my TV supported HDR, which wasn't even on the box or advertised. On the other hand, I also learned my TV only supports 4K at 30hz.
Why the fuck would they do that? How the fuck should I've known 4K UHD can mean different fucking things.
Bullshit. I spent $1600 on a TV, that was supposed to be future proof, that is now completely useless to me.
Why the fuck would they do that? How the fuck should I've known 4K UHD can mean different fucking things.
Bullshit. I spent $1600 on a TV, that was supposed to be future proof, that is now completely useless to me.
what TV?
Xbr55x850c
yes, that would be an option, but only if the game really doesn't run at 60, or has a 30fps lock. If the game would run at 60fps, the settings image wouldn't become rgb444@30 10-bit, but rgb444@60 8-bit, possibly resulting in severe colorbanding. With the options I gave I was more giving a "set it and forget it" settings instead of tinkering with it on a per game basis.
dr_rus
Member
Yes. YCbCr 444 = RGB.
That's encoding, storage. Decoder can easily recreate the missing color gradients with math so even on UHD movies you may see better results using RGB/444 on the display output.
OP, RGB is generally better, always, however there's a catch with 4K HDR10 on HDMI 2.0, where you pretty much have to use lower detail chroma subsampling to have enough HDMI bandwidth for 10-bit color.
So if your TV doesn't support HDR10 then your obvious choice is RGB.
If it does then depending on whether you want to use it or not you have to choose between YCbCr 420 or RGB.
I'd imaging that due to pure pixel density of 4K displays of less than 100" sizes it's unlikely that many people will even notice the color detail loss in 420 mode so you could try just using it universally I guess.
what
game mode (i.e. all post-source processing disabled) is required to get the best image quality from a game console, it's not some kind of handicap
seriously you guys better knock it off or we're turning this thread around
Some people don't understand there is a difference between something supported by a UHD TV (4K60p+HDR10+RGB444) and what HDMI 2.0 can convey at max (4K60p+HDR10+420Chroma).
So an app on the TV itself can do the former but not an HDMI device relied to the same TV.
- No HDMI = 4K/HDR10 full support
- HDMI = 4K/HDR10 compressed support by chroma subsampling
So, on your PS4 Pro:
- Automatic = your TV support HDR10 and you want it.
- YUV420 = your TV can't do RGB444 at 4K60p even without HDR and other settings cause problems.
- RGB444 = your TV can do RGB444 at 4K60p and automatic causes unwanted chroma subsampling.
So an app on the TV itself can do the former but not an HDMI device relied to the same TV.
- No HDMI = 4K/HDR10 full support
- HDMI = 4K/HDR10 compressed support by chroma subsampling
So, on your PS4 Pro:
- Automatic = your TV support HDR10 and you want it.
- YUV420 = your TV can't do RGB444 at 4K60p even without HDR and other settings cause problems.
- RGB444 = your TV can do RGB444 at 4K60p and automatic causes unwanted chroma subsampling.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What's so hard to understand? This HDR bs is way too complicated even for people who go to hardcore forums like this board. Just read the last page. There are multiple posts like mine. I find it hilarious that you had to read my post multiple times to understand what i was talking about and yet expect people to know the difference b/w HDR, 8 Bit HDR, 2160p-YUV420, 2160p-RGB, 4:4:4 and all that shit thats on the first page that is making my head spin.
But let's go back to the main topic, for someone like me who is looking to buy a 4k HDR TV for my new Pro, how would I know that the TV I am buying is going to deliver the best HDR solution without any limitations? Before this thread and DF's video, I thought as long as I buy a 4k HDR TV that is not fake 8 bit HDR, i would be good, but now I have to look at all these other specs? Serious question, what do I need to worry about?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Normally it is possible yeah. I didn't know 4K Blu-Ray are stuck to 4:2:0. I read that the available UHD Blu-Ray players aren't real 4K ones and they just use some upscaling and post processing methods to enhance the picture to 4K since for a real native 4K content you need Blu-Ray Disks that can go to 250 GB. Real 4K movies are around that size too.
I wonder if digital 4K content has the same limitations but anyway the PS4 PRO Media Player isn't updated yet to read 4K content.
From RTINGS about Samsung KS8000 (US)
It isn't clear whether this is RGB or 420.
Yes. But not via HDMI. Maybe via USB or internal storage and apps.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
What? Game Mode is just basically turning all the enhancements that the TV does in order to get the least Input Lag in games.
Huh? The TV has full bandwith HDMI connectors (so 18gb or so which supports 4k@60 4:4:4) plus this bit of the review implies it's HDMI too
nothing, you just leave the setting in auto like every other setting on your console you don't fuck with
nobody's TV recommendations are going to change
this is a limitation of a cord, there isn't some shit to do about it
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
From RTINGS about Samsung KS8000 (US)
It isn't clear whether this is RGB or 420.
YUV 420 is 4:2:0, and RGB is 4:4:4 according to the table posted in the last page.
You know, you need to enable HDMI UHD Color in order to get 4:4:4.
No you are misinformed it can do it.
https://community.sony.com/t5/4K-Ul...selecting-enhanced-format-XBR-850C/m-p/582141
here is someone who had it working on an 850c, even though they had to change HDMI back to standard for it to work.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're writing. The right panel indicates via HDMI in the text below the stats. Are you indicating that is incorrect or, am I not understanding?
Saves on storage and bandwidth requirements, also takes advantage of the fact that we're more sensitive to differences in light vs color.
4K60p@RGB444 via HDMI is supported but not with HDR10.
No TV can do that. It's a limitation of the HDMI 2.0 cert.
depends if SOny updated their website as this functionality was brought via a firmware update (I believe)
Nobody is arguing that, we're just trying to make this guy aware that his TV supports 4K60
yeah they probally didnt update their site after the firmware update.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
OK, .. so, then, RGB 4:4:4 @ 60 with HDR is possible on the KS8000 (example)... I think. I've turned on HDR on the set I have, but I'm not sure if it's 4:4:4 or what just yet. Might take some tinkering to figure out when I get the new system.
Nobody is arguing that, we're just trying to make this guy aware that his TV supports 4K60
Oh shit my bad. I thank you were talking about HDR too.
So yes, every Bravia from 2015 support 4:4:4 at 4K60p via a firmware update.
I have a x83c myself.
SonicAaron
Member
So what would you choose on your PS4.
RGB or Yuv?
Automatic is always an unknown quantity... as it may choose the wrong setting (like full range / limited)
Don't trust it. Just put it on the other option of the two choices that are available: Off.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
4:2:0 will cover all bases, stick with that.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Looking forward to testing the Pro this Thursday on my Sony 55X8509c. It might not be the best 4K TV for HDR, with it being a little older now but it will do the job decent enough for now and the 4k picture quality is awesome.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
With HDR 8 bits only and not the latest HDR10 which shows big difference according to the presentations posted.