family_guy
Member
UHD movies with HDR are 4:2:0, so I'll stick with that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it does not matter if the game renders at 30, 20 or 60 fps, the output is always 60Hz and is what matters, the internal framerate is not relevant to this limitation/compression. Therefore all games have this sacrifice with HDR 4k.
Older TVs didn't allow 4:4:4 in 4K@60FPS, so either 4:4:4: in 4K@30FPS or 4:2:0 in 4K@60FPS only. Newer TVs allow RGB 4:4:4: in 4K@60FPS + HDR8 or 4:2:0 in 4K@60FPS + HDR10.
Yes I know that you can get HDR10 in 4K@30FPS but read my previous posts. The problematic is when games that are Native 4K@60FPS + HDR like NBA2K17, you have to sacrifice something in order to get one feature and you can't enjoy them to the full extent which is really grievous for everyone who invested hard in a high end 4K TV.
I think you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 at regular viewing distance on a 4K panel. The downgrade in IQ is being overstated a tad bit.
Don't you need another option...? e.g.;You have a 4k tv with HDR and want HDR: yuv420
You have a 4k tv without HDR or don't need HDR: rgb444 (if it is supported by your display device)
This is a fucking joke. What a disaster. They should've just taken some chances and put in a better CPU to try and hit 60 fps, but nope, lets save some cash and make people buy thousand dollar TVs just so they can run the same game at 4K HDR and even then they might not get the best results.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
This is a fucking joke. What a disaster. They should've just taken some chances and put in a better CPU to try and hit 60 fps, but nope, lets save some cash and make people buy thousand dollar TVs just so they can run the same game at 4K HDR and even then they might not get the best results.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
This is a fucking joke. What a disaster. They should've just taken some chances and put in a better CPU to try and hit 60 fps, but nope, lets save some cash and make people buy thousand dollar TVs just so they can run the same game at 4K HDR and even then they might not get the best results.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
This is a fucking joke. What a disaster. They should've just taken some chances and put in a better CPU to try and hit 60 fps, but nope, lets save some cash and make people buy thousand dollar TVs just so they can run the same game at 4K HDR and even then they might not get the best results.
I dont think arrogant Sony is back but stupid Sony definitely is. The same idiots who released PSP with one analog stick and the vita with no memory card.
Really grievous? It's true that it would be nice if there were no tradeoff with HDMI at 60fps like 30fps, but 4K HDR 60fps 4:2:0 is plenty capable of "melting your eyeballs" with impressive eyecandy. Just like 4K Blu-Ray which also is limited to 4:2:0.
This. It's not that it's not there of course but it's reportedly and in my small sampling I seem to remember it's most noticeable up close to the screen (like with a monitor) and on things like when on Windows itself with all of that tiny fine text. HDR will be much more noticeable between the two, especially on console made for TV. Just like 4K Blu-ray, games will likely be tested with this spec limitation in mind.
What a clusterfuck. I just learned my TV supported HDR, which wasn't even on the box or advertised. On the other hand, I also learned my TV only supports 4K at 30hz.
Why the fuck would they do that? How the fuck should I've known 4K UHD can mean different fucking things.
Bullshit. I spent $1600 on a TV, that was supposed to be future proof, that is now completely useless to me.
what TV?
Don't you need another option...? e.g.;
You have a 4k TV that has HDR but you don't want to (or can't) run a game higher than 30fps: rgb444
Isnt RGB 4:4:4 ??
UHD movies with HDR are 4:2:0, so I'll stick with that.
Xbr55x850c
You know when enabling Game Mode, all the post processing tools and supersampling effects are turned off which isn't the case when playing movies. So you will get a noticeable loss in details and IQ in Game Mode. This will be accentuated with the attenuation of colour grading and details if you use 4:2:0 or HDR8. What would be the purpose of highlighting HDR and better colours in the recent talks if we are stuck to use last-gen modes?
4K and HDR is the next logical step, just hook up your HDMI cable and don't overthink it.
You are overreacting here.
I had to read this a few times to grasp what you were on about, ignore my initial post if you;ve seen it!
what are you even talking about right now
every single device on the planet connected with HDMI cables has this limitation
What I don't get is why 4K Blu-Ray uses 4:2:0. Why don't they use 444 HDR10 at 4k. Films are at 24fps right? So according to that graph, its possible.
From RTINGS about Samsung KS8000 (US)
It isn't clear whether this is RGB or 420.
what
game mode (i.e. all post-source processing disabled) is required to get the best image quality from a game console, it's not some kind of handicap
seriously you guys better knock it off or we're turning this thread around
What? Game Mode is just basically turning all the enhancements that the TV does in order to get the least Input Lag in games.
Yes. But not via HDMI. Maybe via USB or internal storage and apps.
This TV now supports 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4. To enable this, go to Home button - Settings - External Inputs - HDMI Signal Format - Enhanced (new).
What's so hard to understand? This HDR bs is way too complicated even for people who go to hardcore forums like this board. Just read the last page. There are multiple posts like mine. I find it hilarious that you had to read my post multiple times to understand what i was talking about and yet expect people to know the difference b/w HDR, 8 Bit HDR, 2160p-YUV420, 2160p-RGB, 4:4:4 and all that shit thats on the first page that is making my head spin.
But let's go back to the main topic, for someone like me who is looking to buy a 4k HDR TV for my new Pro, how would I know that the TV I am buying is going to deliver the best HDR solution without any limitations? Before this thread and DF's video, I thought as long as I buy a 4k HDR TV that is not fake 8 bit HDR, i would be good, but now I have to look at all these other specs? Serious question, what do I need to worry about?
From RTINGS about Samsung KS8000 (US)
It isn't clear whether this is RGB or 420.
Game mode is often linked to RGB444.
At least on my 2015 Bravia.
Yes. But not via HDMI. Maybe via USB or internal storage and apps.
Yes. But not via HDMI. Maybe via USB or internal storage and apps.
What I don't get is why 4K Blu-Ray uses 4:2:0. Why don't they use 444 HDR10 at 4k. Films are at 24fps right? So according to that graph, its possible.
Huh? The TV has full bandwith HDMI connectors (so 18gb or so which supports 4k@60 4:4:4) plus this bit of the review implies it's HDMI too
Not according to Sony's website.
4K60p@RGB444 via HDMI is supported but not with HDR10.
No TV can do that. It's a limitation of the HDMI 2.0 cert.
depends if SOny updated their website as this functionality was brought via a firmware update (I believe)
YUV 420 is 4:2:0, and RGB is 4:4:4 according to the table posted in the last page.
You know, you need to enable HDMI UHD Color in order to get 4:4:4.
Nobody is arguing that, we're just trying to make this guy aware that his TV supports 4K60
So what would you choose on your PS4.Oh shit my bad. I thank you were talking about HDR too.
So yes, every Bravia from 2015 support 4:4:4 at 4K60p via a firmware update.
I have a x83c myself.
Don't trust it. Just put it on the other option of the two choices that are available: Off.But automatic failed us mostly on RGB full or limited so why should we trust it with this?
OK, .. so, then, RGB 4:4:4 @ 60 with HDR is possible on the KS8000 (example)... I think. I've turned on HDR on the set I have, but I'm not sure if it's 4:4:4 or what just yet. Might take some tinkering to figure out when I get the new system.