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[Marty Chinn]

It makes perfect sense, and you have no rebuttal because the figures speak for themselves.

Physical media sales are shrinking at a rate that if it continues at its current YoY rate will see its revenue value halved in size over the next 5 years. Meanwhile digital services of all kinds are growing strongly.

This thread is about the debate on UHD Blu-ray inclusion in a games console, so it makes sense to see how relatively important that feature is for driving future profit projections.

To which the numbers say its low value now and very likely to be of diminishing importance in the years ahead. There is no ambiguity about this, particularly if you bear in mind the miniscule size of the UHD media market compared to legacy formats like DVD.

I'm familiar with the pro-physical media arguments, and I'm not unsympathetic because I do like the format(s), but honestly, the writing is on the wall.

Try and find some recent (post 2014) positive figures for Blu Ray software sales, there aren't any. The evidence indicates that it peaked around 2013 and since that year it has joined DVD on the backslide. That considered, why would anyone believe that UHD Blu-Ray is going to do any better, being gated as it is by the available of matching UHD TV's.

No they don't make any sense because you're not comparing comparable sales figures. You specifically call out physical media for movies, but don't compare it to physical games. You compare it to all video game software and that's meaningless. That video game software sales doesn't tell you what portion is physical. Hell it doesn't even tell you what portion is console games since mobile gets lumped into that software sales figure. Simply showing video game software sales are up doesn't actually tell you what is up? All that growth could be mobile sales while console sales are in decline.

To actually have a valid comparison, you would need to show what percentage console physical media sales are and what percentage is digital sales and show the comparison between previous years to show the trend between the two formats.

So again, your comparison doesn't have any weight because you didn't compare anything meaningful. I'm not saying the other person was correct; I'm saying your argument was meaningless.

 

[Clear]

No they don't make any sense because you're not comparing comparable sales figures. You specifically call out physical media for movies, but don't compare it to physical games. You compare it to all video game software and that's meaningless. That video game software sales doesn't tell you what portion is physical. Hell it doesn't even tell you what portion is console games since mobile gets lumped into that software sales figure. Simply showing video game software sales are up doesn't actually tell you what is up? All that growth could be mobile sales while console sales are in decline.

To actually have a valid comparison, you would need to show what percentage console physical media sales are and what percentage is digital sales and show the comparison between previous years to show the trend between the two formats.

So again, your comparison doesn't have any weight because you didn't compare anything meaningful. I'm not saying the other person was correct; I'm saying your argument was meaningless.

You have to be trolling me with this... Seriously...

My post contains the figures for streaming media and physical media revenue, showing the former growing and the latter shrinking. This is really all that needs to be compared as it shows the split in the same specific market segment serving the same content and IP.

I provided the figures for software sales as supporting data to put it in a larger economic context. i.e. if the entire leisure/entertainment economy was depressed then it follows that all segments would be down YoY, rather than non-game physical media suffering specifically.

The fundamental issue is that physical media as a distribution mechanism is declining in the face of competition from digital and streaming sources. Given that the sole purpose of a UHD Blu Ray drive (whether as a standalone unit or as a component of a more complex system like a console) is to play UHD Blu Ray media, its future must be considered uncertain.

 

[StudioTan]

$499 but it still was the cheapest & MGS is a game so I'm not sure how that relates

Come on, the 20GB was almost impossible to find and they discontinued it after 5 months. The console was $599, and yes it was still the cheapest Blu-ray played at that price and was the main reason I bought one at the time.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You have to be trolling me with this... Seriously...

My post contains the figures for streaming media and physical media revenue, showing the former growing and the latter shrinking. This is really all that needs to be compared as it shows the split in the same specific market segment serving the same content and IP.

I provided the figures for software sales as supporting data to put it in a larger economic context. i.e. if the entire leisure/entertainment economy was depressed then it follows that all segments would be down YoY, rather than non-game physical media suffering specifically.

The fundamental issue is that physical media as a distribution mechanism is declining in the face of competition from digital and streaming sources. Given that the sole purpose of a UHD Blu Ray drive (whether as a standalone unit or as a component of a more complex system like a console) is to play UHD Blu Ray media, its future must be considered uncertain.

The person you were replying to explictly said:

Then again the mass market doesnt buy games on disc either.

How am I to interpret when you list two stats in a reply to that statement unless you're trying to show that physical movies is in decline but physical games isn't, especially when your game stat tries to say that software sales are up? Your usage of stats does not clearly convey what you're trying to say.

You list two stats that really don't correlate to your concluding statement. Video game sales were up. You know what was down? Video game console sales were down. That second stat doesn't have any context because they aren't relateable.

Again, I'm not arguing the state of physical media; I'm saying the post you made doesn't support your conclusion because the two things don't correlate or even give proper context because they talk about two things that aren't comparable.

 

[Head.spawn]

$499 but it still was the cheapest & MGS is a game so I'm not sure how that relates

I mentioned the game because people definitely mentioned the benefits of having bluray, even outside of the media functionality, having big games without the need of multiple discs was applauded. On the non-gaming side it was clearly noted as one of the better bluray players for quite some time and having it as a combo device was a major boon.

It wasn't all negative like you suggested.

 

[Clear]

How am I to interpret when you list two stats in a reply to that statement unless you're trying to show that physical movies is in decline but physical games isn't, especially when your game stat tries to say that software sales are up? Your usage of stats does not clearly convey what you're trying to say.

You list two stats that really don't correlate to your concluding statement. Video game sales were up. You know what was down? Video game console sales were down. That second stat doesn't have any context because they aren't relateable.

Again, I'm not arguing the state of physical media; I'm saying the post you made doesn't support your conclusion because the two things don't correlate or even give proper context because they talk about two things that aren't comparable.

It should be obvious what my point is given the context of this thread and the specific circumstance of Sony electing not to include UHD Blu-Ray support in either of the platform refreshes.

Sorry but it feels to me that you are creating a straw-man argument in order to deflect from the real topic. Nobody needs UHD Blu-Ray to deliver games software because no media exists in that format, and no company I'm aware of has expressed a desire to adopt it.

Ergo its only relevance/usage is as a vector for UHD Blu Ray movie discs, a niche market within the HD Blu-Ray disc market, itself a minority sales-wise compared to DVD disc market, in an overall pressed media segment that is declining year on year!

Blu-Ray has not surpassed DVD in popularity, so what on earth would compel anyone to believe that UHD Blu-Ray is going to fare any differently?

 

[onQ123]

I mentioned the game because people definitely mentioned the benefits of having bluray, even outside of the media functionality, having big games without the need of multiple discs was applauded. On the non-gaming side it was clearly noted as one of the better bluray players for quite some time and having it as a combo device was a major boon.

It wasn't all negative like you suggested.

How did I suggest that it was all negative by saying that I remember trolls using it against Sony saying that they forced it down gamers throats? key word is trolls that's not everyone

 

[Marty Chinn]

It should be obvious what my point is given the context of this thread and the specific circumstance of Sony electing not to include UHD Blu-Ray support in either of the platform refreshes.

Sorry but it feels to me that you are creating a straw-man argument in order to deflect from the real topic. Nobody needs UHD Blu-Ray to deliver games software because no media exists in that format, and no company I'm aware of has expressed a desire to adopt it.

Ergo its only relevance/usage is as a vector for UHD Blu Ray movie discs, a niche market within the HD Blu-Ray disc market, itself a minority sales-wise compared to DVD disc market, in an overall pressed media segment that is declining year on year!

Blu-Ray has not surpassed DVD in popularity, so what on earth would compel anyone to believe that UHD Blu-Ray is going to fare any differently?

It doesn't have to surpass it; it just has to do well enough to be profitable. I'm not even arguing that Sony is doomed for not including it. What I do see in this thread are a lot of arguments that really don't hold up with the support that is given. If one were to look at sales for key titles like Frozen, and The Force Awakens, you'd see that the Blu ray actually outsold the DVD. So context can be key. Plus, we shouldn't solely look at decline as an absolute reason not to do something otherwise maybe consoles shouldn't exist since you can point to a decline there too. So again, context is key. I think there are plenty of reasonable and valid reasons why Sony did not include UHD Blu ray playback; I just don't think all the reasons being given in this thread are valid or arguments aren't always being well made.

 

[AstroLad]

It doesn't have to surpass it; it just has to do well enough to be profitable. I'm not even arguing that Sony is doomed for not including it. What I do see in this thread are a lot of arguments that really don't hold up with the support that is given. If one were to look at sales for key titles like Frozen, and The Force Awakens, you'd see that the Blu ray actually outsold the DVD. So context can be key. Plus, we shouldn't solely look at decline as an absolute reason not to do something otherwise maybe consoles shouldn't exist since you can point to a decline there too. So again, context is key. I think there are plenty of reasonable and valid reasons why Sony did not include UHD Blu ray playback; I just don't think all the reasons being given in this thread are valid or arguments aren't always being well made.

Also the big part to me is what's the target market here. Who's going to shell out for this? In many cases I think it will be enthusiasts sort of looking for any excuse to get the latest and greatest, and Sony removed a major bullet point to give people that excuse going by the dozens of responses in this thread. Ultimately it comes down to cost vs. benefit, but as an owner of a new 4k Sony TV (lol irony) it's completely annoying.

 

[Adam Tyner]

If one were to look at sales for key titles like Frozen, and The Force Awakens, you'd see that the Blu ray actually outsold the DVD.

If you look at the 20 top-selling titles every week, Blu-ray often leads over DVD. The long tail favors DVD, which has a deeper library and lower price points, but for new releases (as in, fresh out of theaters), Blu-ray often has a bit of an edge.

 

[MazeHaze]

Also the big part to me is what's the target market here. Who's going to shell out for this? In many cases I think it will be enthusiasts sort of looking for any excuse to get the latest and greatest, and Sony removed a major bullet point to give people that excuse going by the dozens of responses in this thread. Ultimately it comes down to cost vs. benefit, but as an owner of a new 4k Sony TV (lol irony) it's completely annoying.

this hits the nail on the head for me.

Console is marketed to people who own the highest end TVs (yeah there is a benefit for 1080 tvs, but that conference was 99.9 percent "4K" "HDR "4k" "near 4k resolution" "HDR)

Console is also marketed to people who already own ps4s. Andrew Houses quote about wanting to keep people from switching from ps4 to pc by offering a better ps4 indicates this. Also, if anybody has been waiting the last 3 years to own a ps4, I think those people would rather buy the cheaper one. This thing is marketed to console enthusiasts, who happen to own 4k HDR displays.

So if you own an HDR display, chances are you want to watch HDR 4k content on it. Besides a few shows on netflix, and amazon (amazon is better in this regard) your option is to purchase new movies digitally via VUDU or Sonys platform for the same price as a retail UHD disc. Let's not forget that VUDU doesn't even offer HDR on anything that isn't VIZIO(edit, or LG). HDR is the thing you want, especially via streaming where 4k at a low bit rate looks on par or worse than 1080 blu ray.

So you have a ps4, you have a 4k HDR display. If you want to play games that take advantage of your display, and watch movies that take advantage of your display you need to buy a ps4 and buy a standalone uhd player, for a total of around 800 dollars. Sure there are 4k HDR movies on netflix and amazon, but that is currently limited to 2 Adam Sandler movies on netflix, and a handful of nature documentaries on Amazon. You could also purchase Men in Black 3, or that Seth Rogen Christmas movie for 30 dollars each on Amazon if you want.

Sure, you could argue that a lot of people care about game fidelity but don't care a bout movie fidelity, but I would argue that if you're an early HDR 4k adopter and you don't care about both of these things, you are in the minority of that market, ie the target audience for this system.

 

[Head.spawn]

How did I suggest that it was all negative by saying that I remember trolls using it against Sony saying that they forced it down gamers throats? key word is trolls that's not everyone

That's what i thought you were inferring. My bad in that point then.

 

[Gutek]

In 2015 the US market for DVD's and Blu-rays generated $6.1 billion, down 12% YoY, compared to an 18% uptick in digital streaming revenue.

In 2015 the US video game industry generated $23.5 billion in revenue, up from $22.4 billion the previous year. Software content representing $16.5 billion of that, again up 7% from 2014.

It doesn't take a market analyst to see where this is heading, particular as the market trends have been moving consistently in the same direction for several years now.

Plus: Sony probably has pretty good data on Bluray usage. They know what is important to the vast majority of users.

 

[EmiPrime]

this hits the nail on the head for me.

Console is marketed to people who own the highest end TVs (yeah there is a benefit for 1080 tvs, but that conference was 99.9 percent "4K" "HDR "4k" "near 4k resolution" "HDR)

Console is also marketed to people who already own ps4s. Andrew Houses quote about wanting to keep people from switching from ps4 to pc by offering a better ps4 indicates this. Also, if anybody has been waiting the last 3 years to own a ps4, I think those people would rather buy the cheaper one. This thing is marketed to console enthusiasts, who happen to own 4k HDR displays.

So if you own an HDR display, chances are you want to watch HDR 4k content on it. Besides a few shows on netflix, and amazon (amazon is better in this regard) your option is to purchase new movies digitally via VUDU or Sonys platform for the same price as a retail UHD disc. Let's not forget that VUDU doesn't even offer HDR on anything that isn't VIZIO(edit, or LG). HDR is the thing you want, especially via streaming where 4k at a low bit rate looks on par or worse than 1080 blu ray.

So you have a ps4, you have a 4k HDR display. If you want to play games that take advantage of your display, and watch movies that take advantage of your display you need to buy a ps4 and buy a standalone uhd player, for a total of around 800 dollars. Sure there are 4k HDR movies on netflix and amazon, but that is currently limited to 2 Adam Sandler movies on netflix, and a handful of nature documentaries on Amazon. You could also purchase Men in Black 3, or that Seth Rogen Christmas movie for 30 dollars each on Amazon if you want.

Sure, you could argue that a lot of people care about game fidelity but don't care a bout movie fidelity, but I would argue that if you're an early HDR 4k adopter and you don't care about both of these things, you are in the minority of that market, ie the target audience for this system.

You are pushing a narrative that is completely false.

The PS4 Pro is marketed to people who want improved 1080p graphics and performance, those who want VR games with better graphics and those who want 4K gaming (native and checkerboard rendering). People with 4K TVs are not the sole market for the PS4 Pro. Both first time buyers and upgraders are their target audience and it's a gaming machine first and foremost to Sony.

It was there in black and white on a slide that lingered for a long time.

 

[MazeHaze]

You are pushing a narrative that is completely false.

The PS4 Pro is marketed to people who want improved 1080p graphics and performance, those who want VR games with better graphics and those who want 4K gaming (native and checkerboard rendering). People with 4K TVs are not the sole market for the PS4 Pro. Both first time buyers and upgraders are their target audience and it's a gaming machine first and foremost to Sony.

It was there in black and white on a slide that lingered for a long time.

If you read my post, you'll see that I mention right away that there are improvements at 1080p, but if you watched that conference and took away the notion that this was mostly being marketed to people with 1080p tvs with 4k as a bonus, I don't even know what to say.

Edit: edit, as for pushing a narrative, look at the way you worded your post.

"It's for 1080 graphics and performance, and vr with better graphics...and 4k. " They talked about VR for like 30 seconds during that conference. Look at the order of things on that slide.

I would say a more accurate statement would be "It's for improved 4k rendering and hdr support, and better performance for 1080p users...and VR."

 

[Regginator]

This seems like a good a place as any, but are there visual (NOT potential performance) benefits to buy a Pro if you don't have a 4K TV? I was thinking about better IQ, sharper in general and maybe better anti-aliasing from the downsampling. Am I correct in thinking this?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

This seems like a good a place as any, but are there visual (NOT potential performance) benefits to buy a Pro if you don't have a 4K TV? I was thinking about better IQ, sharper in general and maybe better anti-aliasing from the downsampling. Am I correct in thinking this?

You are correct. There may also be frame rate enhancements as well as graphical enhancements. It is all up to the developer

 

[onQ123]

Maybe Sony felt like it was worth more to put the time & money into it's upscaler hardware .

What are Sony plans for 4K Vue? I don't think that's happening anytime soon so they should have a really good upscaler in the PS4 Pro for Vue & all the other HD content that will not be 4K any time soon.

 

[The Artisan]

bump - I didn't want to create a second thread it could just be answered here; why did Sony not put a 4K blu ray player in the Ps4 pro?

I just don't understand...did they really say because everything is moving towards streaming? on sony's part that's not true, otherwise they wouldn't be coming out with 4K blu ray players themselves.

is it because 4K blu rays are a new thing? that doesn't make sense either considering blu ray on its own was a brand new thing when the Ps3 launched and the Ps3 had it...

this is especially nonsensical when considering the fact that the xbone S has it...so, why?

 

[5taquitos]

bump - I didn't want to create a second thread it could just be answered here; why did Sony not put a 4K blu ray player in the Ps4 pro?

I just don't understand...did they really say because everything is moving towards streaming? on sony's part that's not true, otherwise they wouldn't be coming out with 4K blu ray players themselves.

is it because 4K blu rays are a new thing? that doesn't make sense either considering blu ray on its own was a brand new thing when the Ps3 launched and the Ps3 had it...

this is especially nonsensical when considering the fact that the xbone S has it...so, why?

Because Sony's market data says it's not worth it. Beyond that who knows.

 

[RuhRo]

Posted this in the main launch thread but maybe someone here has insights:

Is there *any* way to get HDR video streaming on this console now?

I upped my Netflix subscription to a 4K/HDR plan and turned on Daredevil, which is confirmed to be streaming in HDR.

And... nothing. It runs in 4K, but to get HDR I have to play it through my Chromecast Ultra. On PS4 Pro, no dice.

A little Googling appears to suggest that *no one* is getting HDR through the Netflix app on the Pro: http://community.us.playstation.com...etflix-HDR-on-the-Samsung-JS9000/m-p/46037364

And Amazon's Pro app doesn't seem to have HDR activated either, though they now stream shows using the format on other platforms.

HDR works fine in games - as in when I boot HDR games, it notifies me it's switching to HDR mode and the colors look different.

...So did Sony just release a console marketed around HDR, strip out its ability to play HDR physical media in favor of streaming, then quietly just... not bother to have HDR content available to stream?

 

[Lady Gaia]

I've been told it's a reflection of Sony focusing on asking each division to focus on success within their market segment. It's easy enough for the PlayStation division to look at the Xbox 360's success and conclude that not having Blu-ray didn't exactly hurt them. Focusing on games has been a hallmark of the PS4 from day one.

 

[holygeesus]

HDR will be on the PS4 Pro when Netflix update the app.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Posted this in the main launch thread but maybe someone here has insights:

Is there *any* way to get HDR video streaming on this console now?

I upped my Netflix subscription to a 4K/HDR plan and turned on Daredevil, which is confirmed to be streaming in HDR.

And... nothing. It runs in 4K, but to get HDR I have to play it through my Chromecast Ultra. On PS4 Pro, no dice.

A little Googling appears to suggest that *no one* is getting HDR through the Netflix app on the Pro: http://community.us.playstation.com...etflix-HDR-on-the-Samsung-JS9000/m-p/46037364

And Amazon's Pro app doesn't seem to have HDR activated either, though they now stream shows using the format on other platforms.

HDR works fine in games - as in when I boot HDR games, it notifies me it's switching to HDR mode and the colors look different.

...So did Sony just release a console marketed around HDR, strip out its ability to play HDR physical media in favor of streaming, then quietly just... not bother to have HDR content available to stream?

I think those apps need to be updated, but if you have a hdr tv, your tv apps can most likely play those movies from netflix/amazon in hdr. I do think that sony should of made sure that the netflix/amazin apps were updated.

 

[The Artisan]

Because Sony's market data says it's not worth it. Beyond that who knows.

I get that but did their market data stop them from pushing bluray with the Ps3? you know what i'm saying?

I've been told it's a reflection of Sony focusing on asking each division to focus on success within their market segment. It's easy enough for the PlayStation division to look at the Xbox 360's success and conclude that not having Blu-ray didn't exactly hurt them. Focusing on games has been a hallmark of the PS4 from day one.

so far, the lack of 4K blu ray has been hurting Ps4 as the xbone s has it and it's been outselling the Ps4 slim which includes Uc4, for 4 months now...a third of the whole year.

this is the first month the pro is on the market but it's also the month of black Friday. This may be the end of the Ps4 reign.

 

[5taquitos]

so far, the lack of 4K blu ray has been hurting Ps4 as the xbone s has it and it's been outselling the Ps4 slim which includes Uc4, for 4 months now...a third of the whole year.

this is the first month the pro is on the market but it's also the month of black Friday. This may be the end of the Ps4 reign.

haha that escalated quickly.

The Slim has only been out for two months.

The Xbox One S is only outselling in US and UK.

The world is not ending.

 

[gatti-man]

It should be obvious what my point is given the context of this thread and the specific circumstance of Sony electing not to include UHD Blu-Ray support in either of the platform refreshes.

Sorry but it feels to me that you are creating a straw-man argument in order to deflect from the real topic. Nobody needs UHD Blu-Ray to deliver games software because no media exists in that format, and no company I'm aware of has expressed a desire to adopt it.

Ergo its only relevance/usage is as a vector for UHD Blu Ray movie discs, a niche market within the HD Blu-Ray disc market, itself a minority sales-wise compared to DVD disc market, in an overall pressed media segment that is declining year on year!

Blu-Ray has not surpassed DVD in popularity, so what on earth would compel anyone to believe that UHD Blu-Ray is going to fare any differently?

This is monumentally poor logic.

DVD was the only player in town and offered huge upgrades over VHS. There will never be another DVD. Now we have choices upon choices. Simply using that as a metric for successful physical media is entirely irrelevant.

Will there be customers who care about the best picture quality? Yes
Would those people own a 4K tv? Yes
Would those people probably be the ones interested in the PS4 pro? Yes
Unless you went out and bought a 4K tv specifically for the PS4 pro the only other good content is UHD bluray. Streaming 4K content is the equivalent of a physical 1080p disc quality wise and audio is still inferior to physical.

So saying well bluray and UHD are failing because they are less than DVD means zero. There will always be physical media because there will always be people who desire the best experience and to actually own their content. That's not even factoring in the ridiculous amount of bandwidth required for 4K streaming and data caps.

Not only that, the cost to include a UHD drive is entirely negligible. This is Sony not wanting to compete with its own pricey, stand alone UHD player. That's it and that's all. They aren't trying to keep a price point or make a streaming first decision. It's about maximizing profits and it cost them a sale atleast from me. In fact I sold my PS4 and moved to PC entirely then just bought a stand alone UHD player (non Sony).

 

[III-V]

...So did Sony just release a console marketed around HDR, strip out its ability to play HDR physical media in favor of streaming, then quietly just... not bother to have HDR content available to stream?

There is no app with HDR at this point in time.

Its not Sony's fault, its up to Netflix, Amazon and Google to get their apps updated.

 

[holygeesus]

There is no app with HDR at this point in time.

Its not Sony's fault, its up to Netflix, Amazon and Google to get their apps updated.

It is odd though that it wasn't up day 1. Roku Netflix has HDR capabilities as do pretty much all smart TVs so it's not as if there should be a problem.

 

[onQ123]

bump - I didn't want to create a second thread it could just be answered here; why did Sony not put a 4K blu ray player in the Ps4 pro?

I just don't understand...did they really say because everything is moving towards streaming? on sony's part that's not true, otherwise they wouldn't be coming out with 4K blu ray players themselves.

is it because 4K blu rays are a new thing? that doesn't make sense either considering blu ray on its own was a brand new thing when the Ps3 launched and the Ps3 had it...

this is especially nonsensical when considering the fact that the xbone S has it...so, why?

Because f*** UHD Blu-ray that's why!

I think that really is Sony stand on UHD Blu-ray because the BDA went with the format that needed new hardware vs the format that only needed new firmware updates.


Next year 4K streaming is going to get a pretty big update from AV1 (AOMedia Video 1) & online streaming is going to continue to advance so restructuring Blu-ray hardware user base just for 100GB discs is a little bit crazy when Blu-ray can already hold 100GB. How big is the difference from a UHD Blu-ray & the Blu-ray disc that we already have? is it big enough to justify a new format that's not playable on all PS4's? I actually think we are going to see a 4K Blu-ray format that is playable on PS4 or a 4K video download service that's not too far behind UHD Blu-ray in quality in the next few years.

 

[The Artisan]

haha that escalated quickly.

The Slim has only been out for two months.

The Xbox One S is only outselling in US and UK.

The world is not ending.

aren't they also outselling in Australia?

 

[gatti-man]

There is no app with HDR at this point in time.

Its not Sony's fault, its up to Netflix, Amazon and Google to get their apps updated.

It's sony's fault for selling a console that is lukewarm. It kindof does 4K gaming and sort of does 4K movies. Anyone really concerned about quality (the whole reason to even get 4K) isn't going to be wowed by streaming and the Scorpio is just on the horizon with real 4K specs that won't compromise frame rates or require tile rendering.

Somy under estimates their consumer yet again.

Because f*** UHD Blu-ray that's why!

I think that really is Sony stand on UHD Blu-ray because the BDA went with the format that needed new hardware vs the format that only needed new firmware updates.


Next year 4K streaming is going to get a pretty big update from AV1 (AOMedia Video 1) & online streaming is going to continue to advance so restructuring Blu-ray hardware user base just for 100GB discs is a little bit crazy when Blu-ray can already hold 100GB. How big is the difference from a UHD Blu-ray & the Blu-ray disc that we already have? is it big enough to justify a new format that's not playable on all PS4's? I actually think we are going to see a 4K Blu-ray format that is playable on PS4 or a 4K video download service that's not too far behind UHD Blu-ray in quality in the next few years.

I can tell you right now 4K streaming is nothing like 4K UHD bluray. The difference is obvious not even including sound.

Does this magical new update provide lossless sound? Magically reduce the data cap crushing useage by orders of magnitude? Actually provide the clarity of 4K that so far 4K streaming only wishes it had? I'm extremely doubtful.

 

[JrBaconCheeseburger]

I think sony will wise up and offer it on PS5.

Really silly to not put on PS4 Pro.

Even Best Buy offered a free 4K UHD with purchase this week.

 

[acm2000]

bump - I didn't want to create a second thread it could just be answered here; why did Sony not put a 4K blu ray player in the Ps4 pro?

I just don't understand...did they really say because everything is moving towards streaming? on sony's part that's not true, otherwise they wouldn't be coming out with 4K blu ray players themselves.

is it because 4K blu rays are a new thing? that doesn't make sense either considering blu ray on its own was a brand new thing when the Ps3 launched and the Ps3 had it...

this is especially nonsensical when considering the fact that the xbone S has it...so, why?

The sole reason is they got caught off guard by MS including it in the new Xbox One S and it was probably too late by that point to change their plans.

It will be in the next PlayStation revision no doubt.

 

[Malcolm9]

Not having a 4K UHD player really isn't a if deal, if it's a more popular format by that time I'm sure they'll put it in the PS5.

MS whacked it in the Xbox One S just to try and tick a niche box, as well attempt to score brownie points with a few enthusiasts. I'd rather play my games at a higher resolution and have a better IQ, I would imagine most feel the same.

 

[onQ123]

I get that but did their market data stop them from pushing bluray with the Ps3? you know what i'm saying?
so far, the lack of 4K blu ray has been hurting Ps4 as the xbone s has it and it's been outselling the Ps4 slim which includes Uc4, for 4 months now...a third of the whole year.

this is the first month the pro is on the market but it's also the month of black Friday. This may be the end of the Ps4 reign.

LOL are you trolling? PS4 Slim hasn't been selling so much in the last few months because everyone knew that the PS4 Pro was coming. PS4 Pro sells passed Xbox One S on Amazon top sellers of the year before it even released & it's at number 47 now while the highest selling Xbox One S is at number 98 & the highest selling Xbox One is at number 81.

If Sony can keep up with demand PS4 Pro will just replace PS4 as the main PS4 & whatever small bump Xbox One got in sales compared to PS4 over the last few months will be erased in a few months.

 

[III-V]

It's sony's fault for selling a console that is lukewarm. It kindof does 4K gaming and sort of does 4K movies. Anyone really concerned about quality (the whole reason to even get 4K) isn't going to be wowed by streaming and the Scorpio is just on the horizon with real 4K specs that won't compromise frame rates or require tile rendering.

I can't agree the console is lukewarm, I am really happy with it, but I agree that an UHD drive would have made this thing pretty amazing.

 

[onQ123]

It's sony's fault for selling a console that is lukewarm. It kindof does 4K gaming and sort of does 4K movies. Anyone really concerned about quality (the whole reason to even get 4K) isn't going to be wowed by streaming and the Scorpio is just on the horizon with real 4K specs that won't compromise frame rates or require tile rendering.

Somy under estimates their consumer yet again.



I can tell you right now 4K streaming is nothing like 4K UHD bluray. The difference is obvious not even including sound.

Does this magical new update provide lossless sound? Magically reduce the data cap crushing useage by orders of magnitude? Actually provide the clarity of 4K that so far 4K streaming only wishes it had? I'm extremely doubtful.

Nope but the number of people who will care will be smaller than the number of people who will be enjoying the 4K streaming.

That is the point.


If people can just turn on their new 4K TVs & get 4K content that they see as good enough they will be less likely to go out & get a UHD Blu-ray player & UHD Blu-ray disc.

 

[The Artisan]

Because f*** UHD Blu-ray that's why!

Sony makes UHD Blu-rays though...and, what you censoring yourself for?

The sole reason is they got caught off guard by MS including it in the new Xbox One S and it was probably too late by that point to change their plans.

It will be in the next PlayStation revision no doubt.

The next playstation revision? are you talking about a Ps4 pro-pro? fuck that shit. I thought sony said that wasn't gonna happen

LOL are you trolling?

Stop asking me that.

PS4 Slim hasn't been selling so much in the last few months because everyone knew that the PS4 Pro was coming. PS4 Pro sells passed Xbox One S on Amazon top sellers of the year before it even released & it's at number 47 now while the highest selling Xbox One S is at number 98 & the highest selling Xbox One is at number 81.

If Sony can keep up with demand PS4 Pro will just replace PS4 as the main PS4 & whatever small bump Xbox One got in sales compared to PS4 over the last few months will be erased in a few months.

we'll see about that. The Ps4 pro is the first of its kind. I thought it would be received positively, but I agree that it's been kinda lukewarm.

 

[acm2000]

Nope but the number of people who will care will be smaller than the number of people who will be enjoying the 4K streaming.

That is the point.


If people can just turn on their new 4K TVs & get 4K content that they see as good enough they will be less likely to go out & get a UHD Blu-ray player & UHD Blu-ray disc.

Except in usa isps are seemingly adding data caps again, all it will take is for 4k blurays to drop to normal price

Here in UK data is totally unlimited for most but 4k streaming isn't that great quality anyway

 

[Bitch Pudding]

haha that escalated quickly.

The Slim has only been out for two months.

The Xbox One S is only outselling in US and UK.

The world is not ending.

And what's the reasoning behind that?

a) XBOX One S has 4K Blu-Ray support or
b) ...

it's b..





So sorry for that Al Bundy joke, but yeah, there are reasons for the latest developments, and 4K support of the S is one of them, but it's certainly not the determing one. PS4 sales being strongly divided between two SKUs in a country with an average 10% lead for the total PS4 family is.

 

[acm2000]

The next playstation revision? are you talking about a Ps4 pro-pro? fuck that shit. I thought sony said that wasn't gonna happen

No, the next revision of the pro, smaller, quieter etc etc, it will have uhd Blu-ray I'm fairly sure

 

[Gamezone]

Not having a 4K UHD player really isn't a if deal, if it's a more popular format by that time I'm sure they'll put it in the PS5.

MS whacked it in the Xbox One S just to try and tick a niche box, as well attempt to score brownie points with a few enthusiasts. I'd rather play my games at a higher resolution and have a better IQ, I would imagine most feel the same.

They kinda have to. Even if UHD movies aren't popular by then, games are getting too big, and physical games probably aren't going anywhere.

 

[MindCollizion]

I bought a 4k Bluray because I thought I'd be able to play it when I considered buying a ps4 proom. Oh well.

 

[The Artisan]

No, the next revision of the pro, smaller, quieter etc etc, it will have uhd Blu-ray I'm fairly sure

the next revision of the pro? doesn't that imply that the pro itself has had a revision when it's actually a revision of the OG Ps4?

anyways, that's what I meant when I said Ps4 pro-pro. An improvement of the pro. I thought Sony said they weren't going to do that and that would piss off a lot pro owners who just invested in theirs, especially someone like me who had to do a lot of mental reevaluation and decide to embrace it.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Nope but the number of people who will care will be smaller than the number of people who will be enjoying the 4K streaming.

That is the point.


If people can just turn on their new 4K TVs & get 4K content that they see as good enough they will be less likely to go out & get a UHD Blu-ray player & UHD Blu-ray disc.

The number of people who care about 4K and the Pro is smaller than the number of people who are fine at 1080p and a regular PS4. So under your logic, because there's a smaller audience, the Pro shouldn't exist? The Pro is by definition a niche console catered to a smaller niche market. That smaller niche is probably more interested rather than less interested in UHD Blu ray.

 

[acm2000]

the next revision of the pro? doesn't that imply that the pro itself has had a revision when it's actually a revision of the OG Ps4?

anyways, that's what I meant when I said Ps4 pro-pro. An improvement of the pro. I thought Sony said they weren't going to do that and that would piss off a lot pro owners who just invested in theirs, especially someone like me who had to do a lot of mental reevaluation and decide to embrace it.

You don't think they will make the pro smaller and/or more efficient? Every company makes multiple revisions through a devices lifetime

 

[Ponn]

You don't think they will make the pro smaller and/or more efficient? Every company makes multiple revisions through a devices lifetime

Technically its a mid-generation upgrade. Would it make sense to put resources into that instead of concentrating on a PS5? They would be better off making another slimmer and cheapter $199 revision of a regular PS4 right before a PS5 launch.

For the record the Pro not having 4k Bluray support was really stupid and immediately stopped me from even considering it. You already have the cheaper PS4 on the market, cost shouldn't have been a focus, all the bells and whistles of a premium PS4 should have been the focus if you are even going to do this shit. Now to the general public this looks even more like a "What the hell is this supposed to be?" machine.

 

[Massa]

Technically its a mid-generation upgrade. Would it make sense to put resources into that instead of concentrating on a PS5? They would be better off making another slimmer and cheapter $199 revision of a regular PS4 right before a PS5 launch.

Sony refreshes their main console pretty much every 12-18 months, they're not going to stop now. It saves them money.

 

[Ponn]

Sony refreshes their main console pretty much every 12-18 months, they're not going to stop now. It saves them money.

This is new territory though. 12-18 months they normally would be well into the next console development. If they aren't and they do revise the Pro then you are looking at a longer console generation and their intention of getting everyone to upgrade to a PS4 pro before rolling out a PS5.