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[b3b0p]

Your argument is no one cares about picture quality so why would these buyers even get a pro in the first place? Or even own a 4K tv? Lol



UHD drives are barely more than bluray drives. Cost isn't the issue.



I can literally guarantee you the same people who bought a 4K tv and are savy enough to buy a pro also care about 4K movies if they like movies in general. They go hand in hand. There wouldn't be a huge outcry if that wasn't the case.

Lol, no?

My argument is why are you basing your decision to buy a video game system on it's ability to play movies? This is GAF, I'm thinking the vast majority on here are buying a console for the purpose to play games and choosing one over the other based on the exclusives available on each platform. Not that one plays 4k movies instead of blu-ray movies. I guess if you don't care about any of the exclusives on either platform and you want a movie player, sure it might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[test_account]

but you care about 4K, right?

i'm sure that is what the vast majority of potential Ps4 pro owners care about. how do we know most of them aren't like gatti man?

We dont, and we likely wont ever know either. We can look at the sales numbers, but those doesnt tell us who would have bought a PS4 Pro if it had a 4K Bluray player, and that this alone is the tipping point between a purchase or not.

 

[Rowlet]

I can understand it's exclusion in regards to the slim, but for the PRO? Unbelievable. Will be picking the scorpio over the pro simply because of this blunder.

 

[TrojanBlade]

Where are folks getting UHD 4K movies? I don't see it on Redbox. Netflix? Or most folks buying them correct? If that's the case I can see why Sony didn't bother at this time as they are not so widely available. Also with streaming gaining more popularity it made more sense. But still it would have been a nice checkbox if they included with the Pro.

 

[gatti-man]

That fair. If you dont have a PS4 and was very unsure what to get between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One S, and the 4K Bluray player is what made you decide between those two systems, then they might have lost a sale there indeed. On the flipside though, going for that $399 pricetag by keeping the production costs cheaper might also have brought it more consumers as well. In those cases, they would make more money.

EDIT: I see your reply above here. Sounds to me that it was more about the whole package of the PS4 Pro that made you buy a PC and a standalone player istead, not just the lack of a 4K Bluray player, but i might be wrong.

Yeah the specs were semi disappointing but the deal breaker was no UHD player. That made me say I'm just going to build a PC and see what Scorpio has to offer. Now that I did that I'm loving my PC more than I thought i would.

 

[test_account]

Yeah the specs were semi disappointing but the deal breaker was no UHD player. That made me say I'm just going to build a PC and see what Scorpio has to offer. Now that I did that I'm loving my PC more than I thought i would.

I see. If you already have a PS4 (or had one as you mentioned, sold it due to lack of interest?), i can see that.

 

[brickarts295]

Where are folks getting UHD 4K movies? I don't see it on Redbox. Netflix? So most folks are buying them correct? If that's the case I can see why Sony didn't bother at this time as they are not so widely available. Also with streaming gaining more popularity it made more sense. But still it would have been a nice checkbox if they included with the Pro.

Yeah the fact that Netflix doesn't have UHD discs is probably the reason I'm not to fuss about the lack of 4K BR. UHD BDs are pretty expensive right now. I'm confident Sony is probably saving it for PS5 which by then UHD BD will most likely be cheaper.

But hey I feel for anyone building a UHD collection, it is still head scratcher specially after the PS3. Cerny aint no Kutaragi XD

 

[foolishoptimist]

The thing that's weird to me is, supporting 4k streaming required new hardware. PS4 Pro needed hdcp2.2 hardware as well as h.265 decoder to enable 4K steaming apps.

But how many people have a 4k TV that doesn't already have a Netflix App? or Youtube or whatever. I know my TV has all of those already.

The only thing my TV doesn't have is a UHD drive...

I guess I'm just spoiled from PS3 era having everything in one box.

 

[AngelOFDeath]

In the Playstation teardown video I believe the guy said its the exact same drive as in the PS4.

there goes that. Thanks for letting me know

 

[Lucreto]

I can only give anecdotal evidence on where I live. (Ireland)

I think leaving out the player is a mistake but I don't think they did it lightly.

Ireland earlier this year lost their biggest movie rental provider. They replaced them with kiosks with a few recently released movies. DVD was always big but Bluray never caught on. If a shop had 30 by 6 one metre shelves only 6 would have been dedicated to Bluray and you would be lucky to find 2 copies for rental on new releases.

I also have yet to see 4K movies to buy in retail. I have to go online to find them. If you try to buy on a Irish site you have to pay through the nose for movies. Ice Age Collisions Course is €40 with tax which is $43. It's €23 on Amazon UK.

The TVs with HDR vary in price but you don't know of its the right HDR since the final specifications are only recent. The newer TVs will have the proper spec but cost €2100 for a 55inch. The 4K players range for €300 to €700.

The streaming services are also poor. Netflix is the main one other than from the cable companies like Virgin Media or Sky.

You can get 4K now but I don't see it getting traction until the World Cup in 2018 when 4K TVs will be pushed and broadcasts can be seen in 4K. Sky pushed if for the Euros during the year but the technology is still new.

I see what Sony did, the 4K uptake is slow so far but by the time PS5 comes out the retail 4K will be more prominent.

 

[Garou]

It's baffling how some people want to convince others that UHD-BD is not worth it/streaming is the future/vocal minority and all that, but then they go to the next Digital Foundry-thread and count frames and mili-second frametimes, because they care in detail about the quality.
Why doesn't it occur to them that some want the same degree of quality for their home-cinema, where UHD-BD is the defacto king of quality?!

 

[Incarmine]

Aren't most movies filmed in 2k? There was one film recently that was filmed on a 6k Red camera but that's an obscene amount of data.

So for most movies that are out now, at the moment, I have read that they are essentially upscaled to fit on true 4k screens. So even if you do have a 4k UHD movie, you're not getting a movie experience that is true 4k.

I assume hollywood will eventually switch over to filming in 4k or higher, but last I read is that hollywood is finding a hard time justifying that.


Basically the point I'm making is that even if the ps4 pro had a 4k player, real 4k film content does not really exist and will probably takes a year, maybe more to populate. So you're paying a higher premium for a tech you cannot take full advantage of.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Aren't most movies filmed in 2k? There was one film recently that was filmed on a 6k Red camera but that's an obscene amount of data.

So for most movies that are out now, at the moment, I have read that they are essentially upscaled to fit on true 4k screens. So even if you do have a 4k UHD movie, you're not getting a movie experience that is true 4k.

I assume hollywood will eventually switch over to filming in 4k or higher, but last I read is that hollywood is finding a hard time justifying that.


Basically the point I'm making is that even if the ps4 pro had a 4k player, real 4k film content does not really exist and will probably takes a year, maybe more to populate. So you're paying a higher premium for a tech you cannot take full advantage of.

Early digitally shot movies weren't at 4k, but all would be by now. Heck my Phone can shoot 4k video...

But prior to digital, movies were shot on film, which can be scanned at any resolution.
It's then down to the quality of the film stock and the type of film used as to whether that adds clarity or noise.

 

[Wag]

Early digitally shot movies weren't at 4k, but all would be by now. Heck my Phone can shoot 4k video...

But prior to digital, movies were shot on film, which can be scanned at any resolution.
It's then down to the quality of the film stock and the type of film used as to whether that adds clarity or noise.

Would love to see some old anime shot on film in 4k.

 

[TrojanBlade]

So can the BRD players in the Pro and PS4 play 4K non-HDR movies if they are stored on the disc as 4K? Or they need the UDH discs to do 4K movies? Or did they decide not to produce 4K movies in the BRD format? I mean I can play a 4K video from my HD so why not from BRD disc.

 

[Incarmine]

Just checked, and yes the camera tech is there. So I assume that natively-filmed 4k should pick up.

I still am not really convinced there's enough of a true 4k library in existence to justify a 4k player in the pro now though. I suppose we'll see how fast the 4k library grows.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I can understand it's exclusion in regards to the slim, but for the PRO? Unbelievable. Will be picking the scorpio over the pro simply because of this blunder.

I don't understand these posts at all, other than I'm guessing fanboy baiting. PS4 Pro is a gaming console, and having a 4K UHD drive has zero effect on gaming. If you want an UHD 4K drive, there's the XB1 S now, you don't even need to wait for the Scorpio, the future is today!

 

[Caayn]

I don't understand these posts at all, other than I'm guessing fanboy baiting. PS4 Pro is a gaming console, and having a 4K UHD drive has zero effect on gaming. If you want an UHD 4K drive, there's the XB1 S now, you don't even need to wait for the Scorpio, the future is today!

What effect does the blu-ray license have on gaming? Why not go the same road as Nintendo and use their own discs? Sony will save even more that way.

HDCP 2.2, codec licenses, etc.

 

[Incarmine]

I don't understand these posts at all, other than I'm guessing fanboy baiting. PS4 Pro is a gaming console, and having a 4K UHD drive has zero effect on gaming. If you want an UHD 4K drive, there's the XB1 S now, you don't even need to wait for the Scorpio, the future is today!

I hope we all still remember the fiasco about the xbox one being all about TV and TV back when both consoles were announced and the console wars was at it's heat, and how much people here on neogaf derided the xbox one for trying to be a TV pass-through device or some such.

Now it seems like many people are denouncing the PS4 Pro for not being about movies and movies.

The question I want to ask is how many of the people who passed up a pro because it doesn't play 4k movies, belong to the same group that pissed on the xbox one because it was a TV machine.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Yeah the specs were semi disappointing but the deal breaker was no UHD player. That made me say I'm just going to build a PC and see what Scorpio has to offer. Now that I did that I'm loving my PC more than I thought i would.

I thought all xbox exclusives are going to be playable on the pc now. I could of sworn i read that somewhere. If that's the case there isn't a need to buy a scorpio if you have a better pc.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

I don't understand these posts at all, other than I'm guessing fanboy baiting. PS4 Pro is a gaming console, and having a 4K UHD drive has zero effect on gaming. If you want an UHD 4K drive, there's the XB1 S now, you don't even need to wait for the Scorpio, the future is today!

You are right about it not effecting the games, but i enjoy ps exclusives but also like to watch high quality movies, and now i have to buy a stand alone player, or a xb1 s if i want to watch uhd movies. I'd rather just have 1 console that does it both.

 

[DBT85]

It's baffling how some people want to convince others that UHD-BD is not worth it/streaming is the future/vocal minority and all that, but then they go to the next Digital Foundry-thread and count frames and mili-second frametimes, because they care in detail about the quality.

Why doesn't it occur to them that some want the same degree of quality for their home-cinema, where UHD-BD is the defacto king of quality?!

Are the same people saying both of those things though?
I could say that its baffling how so many people couldn't see a difference between 900p and 1080p 3 years ago but now desperately need a UHD player. But its likely not the same people.

 

[Birgitte2004]

It's baffling how some people want to convince others that UHD-BD is not worth it/streaming is the future/vocal minority and all that, but then they go to the next Digital Foundry-thread and count frames and mili-second frametimes, because they care in detail about the quality.
Why doesn't it occur to them that some want the same degree of quality for their home-cinema, where UHD-BD is the defacto king of quality?!

It does. To some people. But how many?

Blu-Ray didn't particularly add to the appeal of the PS3 to the masses, certainly not enough to overcome the initial price...so why should people believe an even smaller library like 4K is a huge deal? Blu-Ray.com lists a whopping 152 total announced 4k Blu-Rays so far. Note: Announced, not released. How many will even exist before PS5 is a thing?

I was a huge proponent of Blu-Ray even, but the 4k lineup just isn't there to make me care.

 

[Renekton]

It's baffling how some people want to convince others that UHD-BD is not worth it/streaming is the future/vocal minority and all that, but then they go to the next Digital Foundry-thread and count frames and mili-second frametimes, because they care in detail about the quality.
Why doesn't it occur to them that some want the same degree of quality for their home-cinema, where UHD-BD is the defacto king of quality?!

Good point, though could be different people with different priorities.

Sales will be the ultimate decider of this argument, whether buyers care or not.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

uh what? Samsungs have had Netflix HDR for a loooong time.

Vudu has about 60 uhd movies now. Do you know if samsungs app is compatible now? Last time i tried on my friends ks8000, it didnt support uhd from the vudu app.

 

[foolishoptimist]

I hope we all still remember the fiasco about the xbox one being all about TV and TV back when both consoles were announced and the console wars was at it's heat, and how much people here on neogaf derided the xbox one for trying to be a TV pass-through device or some such.

Now it seems like many people are denouncing the PS4 Pro for not being about movies and movies.

There's a big difference between spending half a press conference talking about non-gaming applications and just spending a little extra money(the XB1s can afford it) to support UHD media, in addition to the 4K netflix support they already talked about.

For me, it's several hundred dollars extra, and a more complicated media setup to make full use of my 4KTV.

It does. To some people. But how many?

Blu-Ray didn't particularly add to the appeal of the PS3 to the masses, certainly not enough to overcome the initial price...so why should people believe an even smaller library like 4K is a huge deal? Blu-Ray.com lists a whopping 152 total announced 4k Blu-Rays so far. Note: Announced, not released. How many will even exist before PS5 is a thing?

I was a huge proponent of Blu-Ray even, but the 4k lineup just isn't there to make me care.

All media is a chicken and egg situation. UHD is THE next media format. But players have only been around for a year at most.
You need players if you want people to buy media. Studios aren't going to publish their entire catalog and send it out to retailers when there's no players.
It'll start slow with some standard/classic showcasey type movies, as well as new releases.

Were you actually there at the launch of Blu-ray?
There really weren't that many movies, and HDDVD IMO had the better range with earlier releases of The Matrix and some others.
It took years for the library to fill out.

 

[blastprocessor]

Aren't most movies filmed in 2k? There was one film recently that was filmed on a 6k Red camera but that's an obscene amount of data.

This site can be used to find out the 'true' resolution of UHD releases. It does appear a 'few' are 4K native from a quick browse but Sony's real reason might simply be there's a lack of native 4K content out there.

http://www.blu-ray.com/4k/

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Except for bragging rights and being able to say I have a 4k blu-ray player it makes zero sense.

I don't want to wear out my system from playing movies. I use it for games and if the drive fails... If history should have taught us anything it's that the moving parts in these consoles don't last forever. There are countless stories of PS2, PS3, Xbox (360) Blu-ray/DVD drives failing to read discs or stop working completely.

How many 4k blu-ray movies are even available? Blu-ray.com shows 152 in it's database. Even if they are available do you own the blu-ray already? Are you going to re-buy that blu-ray? How many times are you going to re-watch it? If it's also on a streaming service you have access to are you going to start up the Blu-ray player and get the disc out or just click play on Netflix (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, ...)? I found myself using Netflix (Apple TV, Chromecast) even if I owned the blu-ray discs.

I just sold all my blu-ray and other media and it's glorious. Blu-ray is far superior in terms of quality to streaming, but it got to the point I didn't care. Accessibility, convenience, and less clutter won me over. I did keep a few anime and The Matrix, but that's it.

Many people don't care about 4k. Does 4k make a bad movie good or more entertaining? I love blu-ray, but I'm fine and happy watching a good movie on my iPad or laptop. It doesn't wreck the experience for me. I can't be alone. I see and hear the same as everyone else.

Who buys a gaming console for a disc drive? That sounds ridiculous. Did people buy a Wii for it's DVD drive?

When i was younger i used to play a lot more games than i do now. I played a shit ton of games and movies on my ps2. The console never died on me. I played a shit ton of games and blurays on my ps3, never had a problem. To be honest, the only console i had problems with was the 360 red rings. I curently have the ps4, and play less games now, but still watch a lot of movies. I think my disc drive would of been fine. Maybe i got lucky with most of my consoles.


Don't get me wrong, i watch netflix too, but mostly for shows. When it comes to movies, i like as much detail and the best PQ as possible.

 

[Renekton]

All media is a chicken and egg situation. UHD is THE next media format. But players have only been around for a year at most.

You need players if you want people to buy media. Studios aren't going to publish their entire catalog and send it out to retailers when there's no players.

It'll start slow with some standard/classic showcasey type movies, as well as new releases.

Do publishers like Sony Columbia have any vested interest against UHD physical medium? The industry has been dragging its feet extra hard.

If Sony does eat crow, it's just going to be a minor console revision 1-2 years from now.

 

[Vanadium]

At first this sounds really dumb.

On the other hand, I haven't bought a BluRay disc in two years.

 

[biglittleps]

For me UHD drive is just a check list and not going to be useful for many, but MS playing this one very well like everyone should own for 4K with their tempting price to sell some XBS, but in reality most of the people are moving from disc to Streaming as its affordable and good enough compared to owning UHD discs.

 

[endlessflood]

I still buy physical media for movies. I have a big DVD collection, I have a big Blu-ray collection. I'm waiting for the right 4K TV to be released, and then I plan to start buying new movies on UHD Blu-ray. Or at least I did, until Sony decided not to put a UHD Blu-ray drive in the Pro.

The presence of the DVD drive was a big part of me buying the PS2; the presence of the Blu-ray drive was a big part of me getting the PS3. I did end up getting the Pro, but I'm still angry that it doesn't have a UHD Blu-ray drive.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Do publishers like Sony Columbia have any vested interest against UHD physical medium? The industry has been dragging its feet extra hard.

I'm sure production, stocking physical inventory, and trying to price both DVD and Blu-ray at the same retail outlets is a source of constant frustration. Adding a third format doesn't make things any easier.

 

[Qwyjibo]

I was 100% set to "upgrade" my PS4 to a Pro until they announced that it wouldn't have the UHD player. The marginal upgrade for gaming alone just isn't a good enough value for me. I can't see myself ever getting a Pro now. My standard PS4 will do.

I actually bought an Xbox One S primarily for the UHD player a week ago. It was a bundle that came with 3 games (COD IW, Battlefield 1, Fallout 4) which I all sold very quickly. I'm a blu-ray collector so I know I'm not the norm. I want to own my media and with bandwidth caps in Canada, streaming 4K is not desirable at all for me (as well as the quality difference).

There aren't many UHD movies available right now but with more and more releases, the Xbox One S will be a more appealing purchase because of the UHD drive. Back in the day, I bought my first console since owning a SNES. It was the PS3 slim and a big reason for choosing it over the alternatives was the blu-ray drive.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Do publishers like Sony Columbia have any vested interest against UHD physical medium? The industry has been dragging its feet extra hard.

If Sony does eat crow, it's just going to be a minor console revision 1-2 years from now.

AFAIK it's been slow finalization of security standards related to players that has slowed the medium down. But I certainly expected Sony to use the PS4 to help push it, and given the XB1s has the required hardware, it obviously wasn't going to result in a $599 situation to include it.

 

[RuhRo]

There is no app with HDR at this point in time.

Its not Sony's fault, its up to Netflix, Amazon and Google to get their apps updated.

Whether or not it's Sony's fault, it is certainly very much their problem. As a major platform holder touting 4K HDR video streaming as a key selling point, you don't just plop a console out there and *hope* software-makers will make that possible. That they didn't work with Netflix and Amazon ahead of time to make sure these updates were available day one is frankly kind of crazy.

And as far as I've seen there's no promised release date for HDR updates to any of the apps in question.

This reminds me of the bizarre HBO Go situation on PS4, where every other platform it plays on (Chromecast/Roku/every kind of Xbox) has 5.1 surround sound but the PS4 version of the app inexplicably just has stereo sound, and they appear to have no intention of fixing it.

Sony, bizarrely for a company that makes movies and A/V hardware, appears to just not be very good at all this non-gaming stuff any more.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Aren't most movies filmed in 2k? There was one film recently that was filmed on a 6k Red camera but that's an obscene amount of data.

So for most movies that are out now, at the moment, I have read that they are essentially upscaled to fit on true 4k screens. So even if you do have a 4k UHD movie, you're not getting a movie experience that is true 4k.

I assume hollywood will eventually switch over to filming in 4k or higher, but last I read is that hollywood is finding a hard time justifying that.


Basically the point I'm making is that even if the ps4 pro had a 4k player, real 4k film content does not really exist and will probably takes a year, maybe more to populate. So you're paying a higher premium for a tech you cannot take full advantage of.

Most movies are filmed in at least 4k and some as high as 5k or 6k.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Most movies are filmed in at least 4k and some as high as 5k or 6k.

As of 2004 it was still common practice for effects shots to be rendered a 2K and upscaled regardless of the resolution of the live-action shots. I'm not sure at what point 4K digital intermediates and effects shots became commonplace, but it's a relatively recent development.

EDIT: According to this article, it's still not all that common. "Every single film that Warner plans to release on the 4k Ultra HD format is a 2k movie"

 

[endlessflood]

As of 2004 it was still common practice for effects shots to be rendered a 2K and upscaled regardless of the resolution of the live-action shots. I'm not sure at what point 4K digital intermediates and effects shots became commonplace, but it's a relatively recent development.

EDIT: According to this article, it's still not all that common. "Every single film that Warner plans to release on the 4k Ultra HD format is a 2k movie"

The first movies released on a new format are often rubbish. Does anyone remember the original Matrix DVD? It was one of the first batch of movies, and the quality was absolutely horrendous.

Aren't cinema projectors 4K these days?

 

[ThirdEye]

Pick up the PS4 Pro Slim with UHD BD support in 2018.

 

[Kayant]

Whew! This thread is still alive damn! and people still saying it's only "$15" sigh...

 

[TheExodu5]

Normally I would care. I kind of do, because on principle, I feel Sony is nickel and diming here. Might as well future proof the machine.

However, for my personal use case, it's not an issue. Although I am a videophile, I've started to move away from physical media entirely. It just takes up too much space and has no room in my life in the future.

 

[III-V]

Normally I would care. I kind of do, because on principle, I feel Sony is nickel and diming here. Might as well future proof the machine.

However, for my personal use case, it's not an issue. Although I am a videophile, I've started to move away from physical media entirely. It just takes up too much space and has no room in my life in the future.

sniff, you'll be back

 

[The Artisan]

Whew! This thread is still alive damn! and people still saying it's only "$15" sigh...

what's $15?

 

[BradleyLove]

It's baffling how some people want to convince others that UHD-BD is not worth it/streaming is the future/vocal minority and all that, but then they go to the next Digital Foundry-thread and count frames and mili-second frametimes, because they care in detail about the quality.
Why doesn't it occur to them that some want the same degree of quality for their home-cinema, where UHD-BD is the defacto king of quality?!

Because if you care about "quality" and home-cinema, you don't choose a console for playback. No console is better than a dedicated UHD player, but to be fair "good enough" is suitable for most. But "quality", "home cinema" and "console" don't belong in the same sentence.

 

[The Artisan]

Because if you care about "quality" and home-cinema, you don't choose a console for playback. No console is better than a dedicated UHD player, but to be fair "good enough" is suitable for most. But "quality", "home cinema" and "console" don't belong in the same sentence.

Thats not true. Ps2 was my first DVD player and it was super convenient to have the Ps3 as my first & only Bluray player too (till I got a Ps4).

 

[Silent Hill]

How much are 4K blu ray players?

 

[JonathanPower]

As of 2004 it was still common practice for effects shots to be rendered a 2K and upscaled regardless of the resolution of the live-action shots. I'm not sure at what point 4K digital intermediates and effects shots became commonplace, but it's a relatively recent development.

EDIT: According to this article, it's still not all that common. "Every single film that Warner plans to release on the 4k Ultra HD format is a 2k movie"

Correction. Movies shot on 35mm film do not have a fixed resolution, and it's estimated that 35mm film has a theoretical resolution of about 6K, so this only applies to movies that were originally shot on 2K digital cameras.

Also, I am going to quote myself because I would like to know if someone has an answer.

What exactly is the hw missing from the Pro that does not allow it to read UHD discs? If it's just a license issue, Sony could just release an app or something that you can buy to add the UHD functionality.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I still find it bonkers that Sony didn't include a UHD drive in the Pro, like totally bonkers.

For a bit of hardware targeted towards the enthusiast or tech savvy consumer it just seems mad to not include it, in the Slim I get, to ommit it from the Pro? Bonkers.

 

[JonathanPower]

what's $15?

The supposed additional cost of adding UHD playback, which is not clear if it's just the license fee or the cost of additional hw. If it's just a license cost issue, what Sony could do to please the enthusiasts is to release an app or something that you can buy to add UHD playback.