the £299 I paid for the Pro was at the top end of what I was willing to pay, a £349 price point may have lost at least one sale here, doubt I am alone in not wanting to pay extra for a feature I and the great majority of owners would never use
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
the £299 I paid for the Pro was at the top end of what I was willing to pay, a £349 price point may have lost at least one sale here, doubt I am alone in not wanting to pay extra for a feature I and the great majority of owners would never use
Narpas Sword0
Member
70 year old movies shot on film are >4K resolution dude
The intermediates might not have been produced for 4K since there was no reason to but any remasters will obviously be at 4K now, and any new releases shot in 4K.
The only movies that will be forever ineligible for 4K are the early batch of digitally shot films like Attack of the Clones that were shot in 2K. Any movie shot on film, old or new, and any newer digital movie that was shot in 4K will be on UHD 4K.
That's strange because I remember the great reception of the PS3 BluRay player in the home theater enthusiast community.
That's not entirely true that the consoles are just "good enough" for media playback. Many professional AV reviewers find the Blu Ray playback quality of the consoles excellent. PS3, in particular, has always been named as the best Blu Ray player, ahead of standalone players. One advantage of consoles is the constant updates they receive, whereas standalone players probably get a year of updates, two if you're lucky, and that's it. So if you have an older player and a Blu Ray doesn't play on that player for whatever reason, you're out of luck.
And for that matter, all standalone players have their own unique playback quality, so there's no "perfect" player so to speak, it all comes down to preference.
MisterXDTV
Member
The BD Drive inside PS4 Pro can't read BD-Rom spec V.4.0 (UHD BD specs). So it can't read BD-66 and BD-100 at all. It's an hardware problem
JonathanPower
Member
The BD Drive inside PS4 Pro can't read BD-Rom spec V.4.0 (UHD BD specs). So it can't read BD-66 and BD-100 at all. It's an hardware problem
Thanks. And are we sure this can't be fixed with a firmware upgrade?
I don't think that's a problem. The only problem is TV shows filmed then converted to digital tape, then the film was destroyed, or early Digital films. Anything on film stock greater than 16 mm already exceeds 4K resolution.
MisterXDTV
Member
No, the drive pickup is different and the copy protection system is different (AACS v2.0). That's not software, it's hardware related
The only way to make it possible would be to release an external USB drive add-on in the future. After all BD UHD is only a "movie" format not a data format. So users that don't care about UHD movies don't have to buy something they don't want/need...
Marty Chinn
Member
That's not true. The PS3 was the go to Blu-ray player at AVSForum and the best player in the market for a long time. The flexibility of the PS3 being able to update helped keep it ahead for awhile too.
JonathanPower
Member
Alright. Thanks for the clarification.
dragonzdogma
Member
Will the Checkerboard technique work with normal blue rays, or is it exclusive to games?
its a game thing because they need it. Blu rays are clean as fuck already so just straight scale.
rokkerkory
Member
Isn't this the pro version? Perhaps the normal PS4 held the pro back because it doesn't either?
Either way, this is disappointing. I expect the high end version console to have all the bells and whistles.
Either way, this is disappointing. I expect the high end version console to have all the bells and whistles.
SolidusDave
Member
Not to mention that whatever differences arise from the different players are so minuscule compared to the difference between streaming and disks that it's a pointless argument.
Guess what, some people like to make cost-effective purchases. Thus paying just a few hundred to get 99% of the currently possible quality in movies in a device that you are anyway using is a much better option.
Hell, even the choice of TV will have a bigger effect on IQ. Better not care about graphic difference in games unless you bought the most expensive high end OLED TV/monitor I guess.
dragonzdogma
Member
How different are blue rays compared to 4K blue rays?
UHD vudu is exclusive to Vizio (and maybe lg?) seems they have some kind of partnership.
therealbigrich
Member
I can see me buying a movie here and there and usually my movie watching has been through Redbox. I'm sure it won't be long before they are offering UHD movies for 4-5 dollars a day.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Higher resolution, hdr, and sometimes audio.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Damn that sucks. My friend bought a xb1s and it came with i think 10 free vudu rentals, and we wanted to try out some movies. Thanks for the info.
I'm not sure in what sense this is a correction. It doesn't contradict anything I said or the article I referenced. Movies are a lot more than just live action source footage. The final film as composed integrates effects shots, may crop source material, is often digitally graded, and of course edited into its final shape. It matters little if some pieces of the film are on film when the final, complete work is often 2K.
MisterXDTV
Member
The main selling point for these discs is HDR. Older movies get color re-graded for HDR, something I am not too happy about. You get HDR with more colors using DCI P3 color space (same as theatrical files)
About resolution: the majority of movies since 2003 are finished in 2K resolution regardless of the orginal source. That's also true for today's movies.
Most UHD BDs are upscaled by the movie studio from 2K to 4K (2160p).
If you don't have a brand new HDR TV you should stick with standard Blu-ray as the HDR->SDR conversion done by UHD players is not ideal...
BradleyLove
Member
PS2 DVD playback was gimped as it didn't support RGB playback.
I've already had this discussion in another thread, but PS3 was an anomaly. But it wasn't a premium BD player for long due to noise levels and lack of bitstream support. By the time the slim came out, the PS3 had been long surpassed as a BD player.
Even from a purely aesthetics perspective, AV enthusiasts ain't gonna go for a console as it won't "fit" in with the rest of the AV gear.
Same thing happened in the other thread and I don't know why, but folks jump to the defence of consoles for movie playback. When you have people who pay hundreds of £'s just for speaker wire, and drop thousands on speakers, they're not gonna cheap out on BD playback by going for a console. £250 vs £500 in this scenario is not even a point of contention.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
You think that it's only the people who spend hundreds for speaker wire that are the ones who appreciate 4k UHD movies? That's quite the generalization there. I think you have a distorted video of what a videophile is and it doesn't describe the vast majority of people who are interested in watching movies at the highest quality.
I'm a videophile, I have a 4k projector and I'm using an XB1S as my UHD player because I don't give a fuck how it looks in my entertainment center, I just want the best picture possible, and I don't want to have to hook up 2 devices when 1 will do.
It's been said before but it's worth mentioning again, Sony seems to be targeting the PS4 Pro at people who can appreciate that little bit of extra quality but then tell them that streaming is good enough. It's not. The difference between streamed 4K and UHD is big. Not to mention, in Canada, there are no 4K HDR streaming options for the vast majority of my UHD library so it's not like I could go that route even if I wanted to.
Marty Chinn
Member
My launch PS3 was quiet when playing Blu rays. I know not everyone's PS3s were quiet over time, but that's not to say they weren't quiet. Plus it didn't need bitstream support for premium users. Premium users were likely able to use PCM output anyway. I've yet to find a receiver that accepted Dolby True HD or DTS HD-MA but didn't take PCM. Bitstream was really not a big deal for anyone looking for those formats. Besides, the PS4 Pro is already quiet, so the noise level would be a non issue now anyway. The PS3 didn't have to be an anomaly since there are very few UHD Blu ray players out there and the PS4 is easily flexible enough to have been a quality one.
What? Now I know you don't have a clue about AV enthusiasts. There are tons of pictures of people who have incorporated game systems into their setup. Thinking they don't is pretty ignorant on the subject matter. On top of that the pure AV enthusiasts, tend to have a dedicated setup with an equipment rack/closet which would make it out of sight. What are you defining as someone who is an AV enthusiast? I probably have dropped over 9k into my current setup. My next setup will cost significantly more than that. Do I qualify?
Again, you'd be wrong because it was done with the PS3.
The Artisan
Member
but it still had a DVD player. that's the point.
Do the people acting like Sony made such a big mistake by not including a UHD Blu-ray drive on the PS4 Pro realize that UHD Blu-rays are just tweaked Blu-rays?
The real upgrades come from the standards that they set in place for the UHD Blu-ray players & not from the actual disc format.
DVD video standard is 720 × 480 but you can rip a 1920 x 1080 Blu-ray video down to 9GB or lower & save it on a DVD & play it back on whatever hardware that will play the video format that the Blu-ray video is ripped to. UHD Blu-ray disc are basically the same disc that are being used for Blu-rays so when newer video formats come out that will allow people to encode 4K videos down to even smaller files you might see another 4K Blu-ray format that's even better quality with the same disc or they might use a bigger disc format. I think UHD Blu-ray is a stop-gap format they basically fit 4K content onto the disc that used to have 1080P content on them using better encoding software & hardware. It's a good thing but I don't think it's meant to cover the full 4K era like Blu-ray was for the HD era. Streaming & home media serving is already making Blu-ray less important & UHD Blu-rays are basically just Blu-rays with the movies encoded in H.265 . Blu-rays was so far advanced ahead of it's time that it was able to last this long & now even be used for 4K with just a few changes to the format but UHD is going to have a small chance of taking off Xbox One S & Scorpio is going to help it but PlayStation not supporting it clearly says that Sony is willing to let it die. Why pay extra money to have this drive on your console when it's basically the same drive that is already on the console with a few changes & there is so many other ways to get 4K content on the console & they will advance more & more over the next few years?
The real upgrades come from the standards that they set in place for the UHD Blu-ray players & not from the actual disc format.
DVD video standard is 720 × 480 but you can rip a 1920 x 1080 Blu-ray video down to 9GB or lower & save it on a DVD & play it back on whatever hardware that will play the video format that the Blu-ray video is ripped to. UHD Blu-ray disc are basically the same disc that are being used for Blu-rays so when newer video formats come out that will allow people to encode 4K videos down to even smaller files you might see another 4K Blu-ray format that's even better quality with the same disc or they might use a bigger disc format. I think UHD Blu-ray is a stop-gap format they basically fit 4K content onto the disc that used to have 1080P content on them using better encoding software & hardware. It's a good thing but I don't think it's meant to cover the full 4K era like Blu-ray was for the HD era. Streaming & home media serving is already making Blu-ray less important & UHD Blu-rays are basically just Blu-rays with the movies encoded in H.265 . Blu-rays was so far advanced ahead of it's time that it was able to last this long & now even be used for 4K with just a few changes to the format but UHD is going to have a small chance of taking off Xbox One S & Scorpio is going to help it but PlayStation not supporting it clearly says that Sony is willing to let it die. Why pay extra money to have this drive on your console when it's basically the same drive that is already on the console with a few changes & there is so many other ways to get 4K content on the console & they will advance more & more over the next few years?
dragonzdogma
Member
Eye opener,
I had no clue that most movies aren't native 4k- And I do have the KS8000 TV with HDR,
So even if ps4 and ps4 do have HDR support, it all depends on the movie.
Will normal blue ray movies support HDR in the future, or HDR going to be exclusive to 4k blue ray movies?
The Artisan
Member
man, is it really that simple? i thought it'd be the same as how the Ps3 got 3D blu ray through a software update, and I asked why the same couldn't be done for 4K blu ray and a gaffer told me in another thread it's not the same.
also, if the cost of adding UHD really is expensive, how is it the xbone S is able to do that while keeping the same price point as the Ps4 slim?
dragonzdogma
Member
Can the ps4 Media player app potentially run HDR rip 4kblue ray movies via USB or something like that?
MisterXDTV
Member
No, HDR requires HDMI 2.0 and it's UHD-BD exclusive of course. The original Blu-ray spec is 10 years old. HDR Video is a thing since 2015
Someone needs to crack the new copy protection found on those discs (AACS 2.0) for that to happen
BlazeBreak
Member
Microsoft is probably willing to accept smaller margins (even to the point of only breaking even or taking a small loss).
The PS4, on the other hand, has been a huge financial boon for Sony, who otherwise have been in somewhat dire financial straits. They are determined to make money off PS4 hardware sales.
I think it was a mistake not to include a UHD player in the console, most people when they purchase something they do consider it a long term investment, a machine they will be using for a few years. By not adding a UHD player they remove the side that actually purchases movies in physical format and even collectors too. But thats just my take on it, iam probably not the majority
There is no such thing as HDR rips of 4k Blu rays. There is no way to rip a full uncompressed 4k bku ray, let alone HDR.
mitchman
Gold Member
The 2015 models do not have it. I see that the 2016 models have it, but nothing earlier.
Wow you really have no clue what you're talking about and should stop spreading FUD. SOME movies are from a 2k master yes, and some are from 4K masters. That's not a slam on the format that is up to each individual movie. Tell me the Revanat isn't incredibly better on UHD vs Bluray. I'm betting you've never even seen a proper UHD.
Then there is HDR improvements and Atmos audio totally unavailable on bluray at all. Pacific Rim HDR is a marked improvement over the bluray and it has a 2k master. Once again you have zero idea what you are talking about. Even 2k movies see improvements they just aren't as pronounced as the 4K masters. Mad max also looks far better on UHD and that has a 2k master as well.
And as if you haven't been corrected on this 100 times already streaming 4K is equivalent to bluray 1080p. The quality isn't and won't be a match for UHD no matter what you're promising in the future. Did HD streaming ever even get close to bluray? Nope. Same thing will happen with 4K. There are hard bit rate limitations you just can't get past with streaming.
BlazeBreak
Member
It's in all likelihood a calculated decision on Sony's behalf that the additional profit they'll make by cheaping out on UHD playback will trump any sales they will lose because of it.
I'm personally in thr same crowd. I'm not at all excited by either the Pro or Scorpio. I use my PS4 much more than my Xbone (though my PC is my main gaming hardware), but lack of UHD may very well push me to eventually upgrade my Xbone to an S or Scorpio rather than my PS4 when I want to get a 4K TV.
Probably most 1080p movies will not, as you need hdmi 2.0 for hdr, and hdmi 2.0 is tied to 4k, so you might as well get a 4k blu ray player.
The Artisan
Member
hm, that does seem like the likely scenario, but...you have to wonder that if sony won't be losing money per Ps4 sold, what if they'd be losing sales because their competitor has in their product, what sony opted not to include..you know?
holygeesus
Banned
I don't think anyone can deny that UHD discs aren't spectacular, but surely it would have added to the overall unit cost, for a format that is still in it's infancy? Maybe it's more a UK thing, but of the discs released thus far, I'd probably buy a couple at most.
Also films don't seem to be having mandatory 4K releases - Hell or High water, for example, is a film that I watched recently, and would love a UHD disc version of - it's releasing on blu-ray only.
It seems a generation too early, and I can see why Sony haven't bothered. At this point, it is a niche market, and more people interested currently, are likely to seek out a Panasonic or Samsung player, rather than have a console playing discs (pretty loudly) and controlling playback via a controller.
Also films don't seem to be having mandatory 4K releases - Hell or High water, for example, is a film that I watched recently, and would love a UHD disc version of - it's releasing on blu-ray only.
It seems a generation too early, and I can see why Sony haven't bothered. At this point, it is a niche market, and more people interested currently, are likely to seek out a Panasonic or Samsung player, rather than have a console playing discs (pretty loudly) and controlling playback via a controller.
It's a win for Sony regardless of which one you buy.
Marty Chinn
Member
It would have added to the overall manufacturing cost, but I still contend they could have put a 500GB HDD instead of a 1TB to offset that cost. I'd rather they have done that, especially since the additional cost of the 1TB drive is wasted on me since I replaced it anyway with a different drive.
The Artisan
Member
not really. he's saying he would've traded in a Ps4 and bought a pro with the money he got off of that
so sony lost a potential customer there. yes, the dude is keeping his OG but sony lost the chance to make more money off of him. the money instead went to sony's competitor
DreadfulOmen
Member
if you have a decent 4ktv you should be able to play files off a usb, but good luck finding a true hdr 4k rip.
What are you even talking about? I didn't say anything about the UHD Blu-ray movies being 2K or 4K I'm talking about the physical UHD Blu-ray disc being basically the same as the Blu-ray discs that's out here now & the real upgrades didn't come from the disc format but the standards that they set in place for the UHD Blu-ray players.
Streaming will not be the only way to get 4K content on none UHD Blu-ray devices & the fact that UHD Blu-ray is still 50GB , 66GB & 100GB mean that better encoding /decoding formats will allow 4K downloaded or ripped movies to easily fit on a normal Blu-ray or hard drive to be played back without the need of a UHD Blu-ray drive if streaming isn't good enough for you.
dragonzdogma
Member
HUH, didn't think of that.
I'm not sure how or if it's legal - but for example I'm seeing dead pool UHD (4k) on best buy BF ad right now, is it possible to buy that version, make a back up copy into my usb and play it on my 4ktv, it is compat with media via USB.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
No, there is currently no way to rip UHD discs, there aren't even any PC UHD drives.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Sorry but the quality of streaming will never be able to match the leading disc format of the for those who have he bandwidth to handle it, which is the most minuscule segment of the market. The vast majority of the world will never have internet good enough to handle streaming that can come close to a disc. So you really shouldn't be saying stuff like that.