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[dex3108]

They managed to find PS4 game that uses PS4 Pro additional power to make things better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dXvcuOFjTg

See Sony this is what you should have done for all PS4 games.

 

[Nightengale]

But it's still a patch/version of the game that allow the base game to access more power, which means there is some QA that went into double-checking that the game could run without breaking things.

 

[holygeesus]

That CPU bottleneck. Wow.

 

[Hermii]

Edit: Sorry, didn't watch the video.

 

[Backfoggen]

Seems like this is what the mandatory PS4 Pro support is going to be. Just support the higher clocks.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

What is your point? Do you think AC is suddenly going to sell a bunch more copies because of this patch? Do you think every PS4 games would?

I think his point was, allow regular games to take advantage of the PS4 Pro for better performance.

 

[veggiesaurus]

I don't see why Sony couldn't just include a switch to allow full capabilities in unpatched games, even if it was just for a whitelisted few. Even the slight CPU bump would make a difference in some CPU limited games like unity

 

[rootbeerafloat]

I can't believe AC doesn't even keep a solid 30 on a regular PS4... pathetic.

 

[benzopil]

Cool upgrade, 25fps instead of 19.

This is a terrible remaster of an old-gen game. PS4 should run it as good (I mean "good") as Pro does.

 

[Kaze2212]

Implement a hidden menu in the PS4 Pro OS, that you have to activate manually to access:

- Give the user the ability to run PS4 Pro supported games in base mode.
- Give the user the ability to run standard PS4 games with the additional hardware unlocked.

The average user will not be confused or bothered by these options and people who want to "customize" their experience a little bit more can experiment with these extra options.

Now undoubtedly the best PS4 available and gets rid of most problems until devolpers have adjusted to the PS4 Pro.

 

[madmackem]

I can't believe AC doesn't even keep a solid 30 on a regular PS4... pathetic.

It doesn't hold any solid framerate on anything it's a complete shit show of a remaster.

 

[DieH@rd]

That port is so bad they accidentally managed to enable Pro support

 

[Plasma]

Still annoyed they don't let you use the extra power on base games there are plenty of games which could benefit from a frame rate boost. Just put a warning on it if you enable it saying that some games might crash or won't work right with it enabled.

 

[holygeesus]

Are there any other games reported to operate this way? Until Dawn could use just a frame rate bump.

 

[abracadaver]

I don't see why Sony couldn't just include a switch to allow full capabilities in unpatched games, even if it was just for a whitelisted few.

The PS4 PRO has 2 GPU's

To use the extra power (the second GPU) the developers have to implement some kind of Crossfire/SLI support into their games. In PRO enhanced games GPU 1 renders the upper half of the picture and GPU 2 the lower half. The game renderer has to be patched to support multiple GPU's. As you can see with PC games Crossfire/SLI support often only gets patched in weeks after release or not at all because it's probably not that easy to implement. To just enable the second GPU and have it automatically help the first one is not possible.


afaik

 

[Cartho]

The PS4 PRO has 2 GPU's

To use the extra power (the second GPU) the developers have to implement some kind of Crossfire/SLI support into their games. In PRO enhanced games GPU 1 renders the upper half of the picture and GPU 2 the lower half. The game renderer has to be patched to support multiple GPU's. As you can see with PC games Crossfire/SLI support often only gets patched in weeks after release or not at all because it's probably not that easy to implement. To just enable the second GPU and have it automatically help the first one is not possible.


afaik

This sounds pretty reasonable.
The CPU clock thing seems bizarre though. I mean Sony said they downclock the CPU on games without patched pro support - why? Sure, disable the extra CUs etc but couldn't they leave the CPU at max? It's not caused any problems for the XB1 S, they increased the clock on that without anything breaking and it's given small increases to lots of games.

Is this all because they are terrified of people getting angry that their 3 year old console is now being out performed by a newer model?

It just seems strange. If they want this mid gen upgrade type thing to actually work in the future then they need to make a good case for it actually being an upgrade. Seems like all they're doing is deliberately hurting their own idea.

I fully expect MS is watching all this very closely. The extra year might turn out to be a master stroke if they can learn from their competitor's teething problems.

 

[michaelius]

The PS4 PRO has 2 GPU's

To use the extra power (the second GPU) the developers have to implement some kind of Crossfire/SLI support into their games. In PRO enhanced games GPU 1 renders the upper half of the picture and GPU 2 the lower half. The game renderer has to be patched to support multiple GPU's. As you can see with PC games Crossfire/SLI support often only gets patched in weeks after release or not at all because it's probably not that easy to implement. To just enable the second GPU and have it automatically help the first one is not possible.


afaik

Please don't spread misinformation - it's enough that we have so called games journalist not being able to understand what Cerny said and producing articles about two GPUs.

There's only one gpu in Pro which twice the number of shaders of the the in PS4.

 

[Risk Breaker]

The PS4 PRO has 2 GPU's

To use the extra power (the second GPU) the developers have to implement some kind of Crossfire/SLI support into their games. In PRO enhanced games GPU 1 renders the upper half of the picture and GPU 2 the lower half. The game renderer has to be patched to support multiple GPU's. As you can see with PC games Crossfire/SLI support often only gets patched in weeks after release or not at all because it's probably not that easy to implement. To just enable the second GPU and have it automatically help the first one is not possible.


afaik

I really don't think that's how it works. It's 1 GPU where some CUs are disabled in base mode. Where the hell did you read that?

 

[Mohasus]

What is your point? Do you think AC is suddenly going to sell a bunch more copies because of this patch? Do you think every PS4 games would?

There is no patch. Try watching the video to see the point of it.

 

[geordiemp]

Implement a hidden menu in the PS4 Pro OS, that you have to activate manually to access:

- Give the user the ability to run PS4 Pro supported games in base mode.
- Give the user the ability to run standard PS4 games with the additional hardware unlocked.
.

Exactly. Options are good, and Sony can always say developer unsupported Pro mode is at users risk. If the game crashes, you can reload your game and save point and go back to base mode.

 

[DBT85]

I agree with Leadbetter and have from the start, it should be an option for us to tick to use the extra grunt at our own risk.

 

[abracadaver]

Please don't spread misinformation - it's enough that we have so called games journalist not being able to understand what Cerny said and producing articles about two GPUs.

There's only one gpu in Pro which twice the number of shaders of the the in PS4.

I really don't think that's how it works. It's 1 GPU where some CUs are disabled in base mode. Where the hell did you read that?

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-ps4-p...e-for-old-games-and-both-for-pro-enhancements

Speaking to Eurogamer, PS4 architect and really clever person Mark Cerny explains how the GPU (graphics processor unit) is repeated in the PS4 Pro. “We doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 [PS4] titles. We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

 

[Caayn]

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-ps4-p...e-for-old-games-and-both-for-pro-enhancements

"essentially placing it next to itself" is a metaphor for doubling the GPU.

Having two GPUs in the system would result in manufacturing overhead (extra buses), development overhead (which GPU handles what, how do you sync data between the GPUs) and kills memory bandwidth by having three processors actively using the memory pool.

Implement a hidden menu in the PS4 Pro OS, that you have to activate manually to access:

- Give the user the ability to run PS4 Pro supported games in base mode.
- Give the user the ability to run standard PS4 games with the additional hardware unlocked.

The average user will not be confused or bothered by these options and people who want to "customize" their experience a little bit more can experiment with these extra options.

Now undoubtedly the best PS4 available and gets rid of most problems until devolpers have adjusted to the PS4 Pro.

This would be nice to have.

 

[abracadaver]

"essentially placing it next to itself" is a metaphor for doubling the GPU.

Having two GPUs in the system would result in manufacturing overhead (extra buses), development overhead (which GPU handles what, how do you sync data between the GPUs) and kills memory bandwidth by having three processors actively using the memory pool.

Alright sorry.

I only remembered hearing about the 2 GPU thing when the Pro was announced.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Very interesting, I think there should be a user option to turn it on as well. Make it per title if they have to or a hidden button combination in the menu but it should be there. I was definitely surprised when the One S had it on all the time, the Pro should at least have an option for it. As for the performance I'm not surprised it's not suddenly locked 60 with the CPU boost being so low but it's nice to have anyway.

 

[Serious Sam]

Implement a hidden menu in the PS4 Pro OS, that you have to activate manually to access:

- Give the user the ability to run PS4 Pro supported games in base mode.
- Give the user the ability to run standard PS4 games with the additional hardware unlocked.

The average user will not be confused or bothered by these options and people who want to "customize" their experience a little bit more can experiment with these extra options.

Now undoubtedly the best PS4 available and gets rid of most problems until devolpers have adjusted to the PS4 Pro.

So much this!

 

[Yarbskoo]

I look forward to the official patch that increases the resolution but drops the framerate to 1-2 frames below the original PS4 game.

 

[mieumieu]

You can't just put the PS4 game on Pro CPU configuration willy-nilly. Sure it will run better, but there are timing and threading specific bugs that may happen if this is done across the board.
It is not like PC games where you always accounted for testing different configurations into the budget.

Most of these kinds of bugs don't happen regularly of course, which is why the Xbox One S opted to go for this route. PS4 Pro just played it extra safe.

 

[thelastword]

That's not a Cpu bottleneck, that's a bad port Leadbetter.....This port reminds me of Zoe1 and 2 on the PS3. Give Hexadrive this port to fix and we shall see how it will transform. It's like DF have never seen a bad port before...

Also, I want more than framerate improvements in my games. If these games ought to be pro patched, I want a much higher resolution with graphical improvements. I want better AA and AF. The pro can handle these games at 2160p checkerboard 60fps. These ports are just bad.

I can't believe Leadbetter is using a video of a bad port to make a point, this is insane....especially one where the framerate unlock on Pro should not have happened, just goes to show how bad these games were coded.

 

[Caayn]

You can't just put the PS4 game on Pro CPU configuration willy-nilly. Sure it will run better, but there are timing and threading specific bugs that may happen if this is done across the board.
It is not like PC games where you always accounted for testing different configurations into the budget.

Most of these kinds of bugs don't happen regularly of course, which is why the Xbox One S opted to go for this route. PS4 Pro just played it extra safe.

I still don't fully take it. A race condition is a race condition, even a slight change in hardware speed can trigger it.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Just cause 3 could use that!

 

[Self_Destructive]

That's not a Cpu bottleneck, that's a bad port Leadbetter.....This port reminds me of Zoe1 and 2 on the PS3. Give Hexadrive this port to fix and we shall see how it will transform. It's like DF have never seen a bad port before...

Also, I want more than framerate improvements in my games. If these games ought to be pro patched, I want a much higher resolution with graphical improvements. I want better AA and AF. The pro can handle these games at 2160p checkerboard 60fps. These ports are just bad.

I can't believe Leadbetter is using a video of a bad port to make a point, this is insane....especially one where the framerate unlock on Pro should not have happened, just goes to show how bad these games were coded.

With the way the game is coded.. everything the same... the CPU is indeed bottlenecking and preventing it from reaching higher framerates...

You make it sound like Richard is insinuating that the console can't do any better... he's not saying that at all, and even mentions the port being terrible in the video.

 

[Freeman76]

At least if these incompetent clowns can implement a patch that improves performance on the PRO it gives us hope for other devs. Its obviously not difficult.

 

[Nev]

Arkham City on the PS4 isn't even 30fps locked? Are you fucking serious? I played that game at 60fps on my 2011 laptop. What an absolute joke. Console only people really have to put up with some real nasty bullshit.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I trust Cerny, the creator of this console and it's iteration, more than I trust Leadbetter in this case.

And please stop comparing a 7 % boost to the Pro man, not a good look. Also, don't automatically assume games will run better on Scorpio without any additional work.

 

[Bustanen]

If Sony won't do it then maybe CFW will in the future. I would gladly lose psn access for better performance.

 

[dark10x]

Regardless of the game being shown here, I agree that it would be great to see an option to run standard PS4 games using the additional power of the system. As long as it's noted to be a "use at your own risk" kind of option, I don't see the issue.

The PS2 is a good example of this, I think, since faster disc speed definitely could break some games while texture filtering didn't always work as intended. They were optional and had to be engaged specifically when loading a PS1 game each time. Why not offer this Pro users?

It would actually help out in the case of mediocre ports. If you have a game that is almost 30fps but often drops, this extra power might be enough to bring it up to a solid 30.

 

[IgotElbows]

This is what I was hoping the PS4 pro was going to do.
This is why I wanted a PS4 Pro, for Bloodborne and such.

I wish Sony would just let the pro use the power it has for all games. I don't understand why they don't let it...

 

[Kenzodielocke]

This is what I was hoping the PS4 pro was going to do.
This is why I wanted a PS4 Pro, for Bloodborne and such.

I wish Sony would just let the pro use the power it has for all games. I don't understand why they don't let it...

Bloodborne is actually running 30fps most of the time, frame pacing won't get fixed by more hardware power.

Wow.. you seem to have a grudge... Comparing is what they do.. And he's perfectly within his right to speculate, and he's definitely more knowledgeable than most as to formulate an educated opinion as to why he believes so. He's not claiming anything as fact.

I don't hold a grude. I am grateful for his work, stop asssuming things. I just decided, in this case, to believe in Cerny's decision.

 

[Self_Destructive]

I trust Cerny, the creator of this console and it's iteration, more than I trust Leadbetter in this case.

And please stop comparing a 7 % boost to the Pro man, not a good look. Also, don't automatically assume games will run better on Scorpio without any additional work.

Wow.. you seem to have a grudge... Comparing is what they do.. And he's perfectly within his right to speculate, and he's definitely more knowledgeable than most as to formulate an educated opinion as to why he believes so. He's not claiming anything as fact.

 

[playXray]

I don't see why Sony couldn't just include a switch to allow full capabilities in unpatched games, even if it was just for a whitelisted few. Even the slight CPU bump would make a difference in some CPU limited games like unity

I'm sorry if this comes across as blunt but the reason you don't see why Sony don't "just include a switch" is that, like most people, you don't understand the complexities of a walled garden hardware/software setup like this (I also include myself in this category).

It's easy to think "oh they could just do X" but in reality if it were simple they probably would have done it.

 

[velociraptor]

I have no idea why Sony have placed this arbitrary downclock on the PS4 Pro GPU.

Just brute force the damn thing ala PC hardware.

When you buy a more powerful GPU or PC, it doesn't 'downclock' or any bullshit. It runs at max capability.

The fact you actually have to use a patch to 'unlock' the additional power is quite simply mindbloggling.

 

[Cartho]

Also, don't automatically assume games will run better on Scorpio without any additional work.

This is an important point. I think a lot of people are thinking that Scorpio is going to be this magical system which uses a different (possibly zen based?) SoC and makes everything run at 4K / rock solid 1080p60 without any patching. I'm trying to keep my expectations in check.

 

[veggiesaurus]

I'm sorry if this comes across as blunt but the reason you don't see why Sony don't "just include a switch" is that, like most people, you don't understand the complexities of a walled garden hardware/software setup like this (I also include myself in this category).

It's easy to think "oh they could just do X" but in reality if it were simple they probably would have done it.

Enabling all the CU on the GPU could be tricky. However, increasing the CPU and GPU clocks to their pro levels is unlikely to cause an issue. And if it does, that's fine, as long as it's at the user's risk...

In terms of implementation complexities, they're already downclocking the CPU and GPU, so returning them to base clocks can't be much of an issue.

 

[thelastword]

With the way the game is coded.. everything the same... the CPU is indeed bottlenecking and preventing it from reaching higher framerates...

You make it sound like Richard is insinuating that the console can't do any better... he's not saying that at all, and even mentions the port being terrible in the video.

No, that does not make sense, are there higher draw calls in this remaster than the original? The upgrades to these games are all GPU related, which the RX480 can handle.. The original games run at 60fps on toaster CPU+GPU combos.....

 

[RenditMan]

The PS4 PRO has 2 GPU's

To use the extra power (the second GPU) the developers have to implement some kind of Crossfire/SLI support into their games. In PRO enhanced games GPU 1 renders the upper half of the picture and GPU 2 the lower half. The game renderer has to be patched to support multiple GPU's. As you can see with PC games Crossfire/SLI support often only gets patched in weeks after release or not at all because it's probably not that easy to implement. To just enable the second GPU and have it automatically help the first one is not possible.


afaik

Err that's not how it works.

 

[RenditMan]

I have no idea why Sony have placed this arbitrary downclock on the PS4 Pro GPU.

Just brute force the damn thing ala PC hardware.

When you buy a more powerful GPU or PC, it doesn't 'downclock' or any bullshit. It runs at max capability.

The fact you actually have to use a patch to 'unlock' the additional power is quite simply mindbloggling.

I'm not sure the problems games have on the pc would be acceptable on a console. Brute forcing everything clearly has issues.

Oops double posted sorry.

 

[JimPanzer]

god can they just do this for bloodborne and DS3 please?

 

[KojiKnight]

I have no idea why Sony have placed this arbitrary downclock on the PS4 Pro GPU.

Just brute force the damn thing ala PC hardware.

When you buy a more powerful GPU or PC, it doesn't 'downclock' or any bullshit. It runs at max capability.

The fact you actually have to use a patch to 'unlock' the additional power is quite simply mindbloggling.

Pc games were designed for scalable hardware, and even sometimes they run into issues.

These games were designed with fixed performance in mind

 

[martino]

No, that does not make sense, are there higher draw calls in this remaster than the original? The upgrades to these games are all GPU related, which the RX480 can handle.. The original games run at 60fps on toaster CPU+GPU combos.....

maybe because you forget in your interpretation that what is considered toasters pc cpu are still better than the ones in those consoles.