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Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
So far, the leaks said Izunia was Noctis' ancestor, but nothing about Ardyn. Whether you believe the leaks or not is a different story (but the Ferrari thing is a bit suspicious)
shameless self plug again
Not sure on Ultimania.
Also
Nah. Not everything needs to be explicit. What's clear is the Scourge is purged and daylight is restored. I'm satisfied with that.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
That's you. For me, a well-written fictional plot has all the details and everything makes sense. Not saying everything has to be "spoonfed," but it needs to be there, somewhere.
LordKasual
Banned
The plot made perfect sense as it was.
It's just better with the excluded info.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I'm one of the biggest defenders of this game's plot, but its storytelling was almost abysmally bad. Too many underused characters, things told to you in loading screens, or happening off screen, only to later be told to you by secondary characters.
I'm not sure why they needed to do such drastic rewrites in the first place. I know some of the leaks were saying rewrites were happening even when Nomura was in charge but at least the game then was still in some sort of limbo/pre production. It's kind of hard to follow the logic of drastically changing the story from the original versus scenario just because it became a mainline title.
As much as I have issues on how FF15 misses important story points in its main narrative, I completely disagree with you on this.
I actually think its better for world building, character introduction and actualization, etc if things are purposefully hidden or slightly hinted at.
Stuff like Shiva's gentleness towards Ifrit as she kills him isn't something I want explained anywhere in the game. It implies that there is history, but that its a history we don't need to know because its theirs and not ours.
There can even be times were the absence of plot points can say things much much louder than actively showing those things. Whether or not you show something are just narrative choices and rely solely on execution. There are plenty of good movies and game narratives that purposefully don't show you things which in turn basically creates a feeling that in turn informs the viewer. Tools for a narrative that shouldn't be ignored.
Hell you don't even need to make sense. Mind fuckery is a staple of art in any form where figuring it out little by little and collaborating and maybe getting some things wrong but thats okay because art allows it to be.
Mind you I'm not saying FF15 works in that way (outside of shiva's stuff, i'm quite happy with scenes involving her tbh) , I'm just saying that shutting off plots and narratives that "don't tell you anything" or "aren't clear" is silly and really suffocating to the growth of gaming as a medium.
I honestly think that there is a way to embrace fragmented and incomplete storytelling in games, and once we figure it out, gaming will be better for it.
Basically it goes more like this: everything is iterative.
Vs starts off, it has a plot
plot changes through pre-production
plot changes due to wanting more, ambitions rise, ooooo we should keep going
plot changes to trilogy
plot changes due to main numbering and not wanting to fall into the "13 trap" again
plot changes due to corperate meddling due to dlc needs
plot changes more due to time and forced need to cut content
its a sucky process, and I know no one involved with the story is happy about how its basically just a hot potato of changes. But that's just how somethings end up being :/
I don't believe the leaks, but consider that maybe the story was changed because the original made less sense?
With regards to the detail in question, you're nitpicking fairytale logic, though. The core lore of the game is intact, enough to understand the story without losing a sense of wonder. It's fantasy, not sci-fi, after all.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
I'd love Sakaguchi to act as an advisor for the next FF game. It might be just me but the FFs released under his supervision felt the most "complete" experiences.
Yeah sure I'm just fascinated by the development of this game. Such an odd situation to be in.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I'm not going to argue with any of you.
Again, I'm not saying every detail needs to be spoonfed to me.
But the details need to be there, somewhere. Everything from the world, to the lore, to the plot, needs to be fully fleshed-out. It all needs to be cohesive.
Then again if I have to be frank if you're defending this travesty of a main story it's already a lost cause. In my eyes I really don't see how anyone can defend the main story in any way. It's terribly written in every way from start to finish. If you enjoyed it though, good for you.
Again, I'm not saying every detail needs to be spoonfed to me.
But the details need to be there, somewhere. Everything from the world, to the lore, to the plot, needs to be fully fleshed-out. It all needs to be cohesive.
Then again if I have to be frank if you're defending this travesty of a main story it's already a lost cause. In my eyes I really don't see how anyone can defend the main story in any way. It's terribly written in every way from start to finish. If you enjoyed it though, good for you.
psynergylover
Member
People must not have played FF8. There is a TON of information left in the background (mostly the Information setion) and tons we just flat out are never told off (i.e. who were the Centra? Why was Odin there? What was so important about Adel's backstory that Ultimicia needed her for Time Compression? What IS Time compression? Why was Ultimecia using TC as her goal when she already had neutralized Seed in her time line? What were the Deep Sea Ruins? What was the Great Hyde all about???, etc, etc)
In fact FF8 is so much like FF15, it's scary. Both have final, future worlds' we barely explore, with F8 being an even greater offender. I wanted to see the future, damn it lol
Still my second favorite FF title ever though
That's fine. Just realize you are in the minority. The story is easy to follow. The execution is just not as stella as it needed to be.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I'm in the minority?
Is that why SE promised to patch the story a week after release, and why practically every review harps on the game for its story and writing in general?
You could say I'm in the minority in the sense that I would be a minority if I say the writing in Fast and Furious is trash, because the general audience eats the shit up. Doesn't mean it's any good. Final Fantasy XV's writing is garbage. It's not carefully crafted and things aren't intentionally left out for the sake of being genuinely deep. It's a jumbled mess from beginning to end, the rewrites are lazy as hell, lore is sloppily-written, dozens of holes, etc. etc. I could go on and on.
Is that why SE promised to patch the story a week after release, and why practically every review harps on the game for its story and writing in general?
You could say I'm in the minority in the sense that I would be a minority if I say the writing in Fast and Furious is trash, because the general audience eats the shit up. Doesn't mean it's any good. Final Fantasy XV's writing is garbage. It's not carefully crafted and things aren't intentionally left out for the sake of being genuinely deep. It's a jumbled mess from beginning to end, the rewrites are lazy as hell, lore is sloppily-written, dozens of holes, etc. etc. I could go on and on.
Yes, you are. The game wouldn't have scored that high if the plot was the kind of garbage you make out to be.
LordKasual
Banned
The difference between you and most regular people is that they're able to see the difference between something that is irredeemably bad, and something that is good yet flawed.
So yeah, you're the minority.
I don't. Not really.
Him catching me, staring into my face with disgust, and tossing me away like trash is literally all you need to know about him.
Ifrit in this game was a wonderful example of how to make a character emote through action. Reading about his history after the fact only made it so much sweeter.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
It's the lowest-scoring mainline FF outside of XIV 1.0. And if you ask me an 82 after 10 years, the latest iteration being in development for 3 1/2-4, with such a gigantic budget, is pitiful.
SE announced story patches a week after release.
And in the video game industry, a game can still score "that high" if the story is non-existent or garbage. Metal Gear Solid V has, what, a 92 Metacritic?
And to the poster above me, whatever helps you sleep at night.
What I am saying is that everyone has commented about the execution of the story being what is so subpar but the actual story itself is fine. The number of people who flat out hated the story itself has been small in these threads.
FFIX in this day and age can barely break 84 on MC. Reviews are simply much tougher now. Do people still think FF7 and 8 would be 9.5s and 10s if judged by today's reviewing standards?
I don't think you are considering the sheer number of reviews XV has in comparison to the previous games in the series, and the fact that the industry has become a lot more demanding and critical.
Final Fantasy X for example. Great metacritic score, but it only has about 52 reviews.
Final Fantasy XV has 92.
Also, for someone who clearly hates the game with a passion, you surely are present in the threads about the game a lot.
LordKasual
Banned
Haha you just said you were the minority. We confirmed it for you.
XV is "the lowest scoring mainline outside XIV 1.0" and yet it keeps being praised by the majority of critics and players, despite its flaws. You desperately want us to agree with you that the game is trash, and it's making you angry.
But it isn't. You're the minority, get over it.
Edit:
If you want to be completely logical about this, the more you analyze the current environment that XV was released into, the more impressive its standing becomes. We're talking about a game with serious development flaws and story issues that scored positively in the same volume as games like Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, Witcher 3, ect.
It has every reason to be standing at a 75-78 average, but it isn't. If you can't appreciate that, then your bias is clouding your judgement.
I honestly don't know why it's so hard for people to admit they are in a minority of opinion. I mean, as I've stated several times, MGSV is my biggest gaming disappointment, of all time, but even I know that I'm in a minority, and I don't try to make excuses of why people like the game.
Yes, but in order for him to be powerful enough to obtain the Royal Arms, he needed the gods to lend him a hand. It's mostly a gameplay thing, since the Summons can save your skin quite a number of times.
Also, I assume that in order to fully utilize the power of the Crystal, he needed the blessing of all 6 gods (Taken by force from Ifrit).
The Knights of the Round (Lucian Kings) destroyed Ardyn. But the world cleansing was done by the Crystal.
Kamen x Hunter
Banned
Forgive, but I don't understand that. The execution is sub par but the story itself is fine?
The Six also saved his ass several times in the game. Titan came to protect him from Leviathan, Ramuh blew up the Nif base, Leviathan came and saved you from the daemons on the train. Without getting their powers it's implied that Noctis might not have been successful on his journey.
LordKasual
Banned
Well, it was the Six who created the Ring/crystal and gave the first Oracle their powers.
But I suppose the real reason is that by himself, even with the power of kings, he may have had a rather difficult time taking on the empire alone.
I don't think awaking the Six is something that all the Lucian kings had to do, just Noctis. If Regis had Titan/Shiva/Leviathan/Bahamut on his side, his battle in Kingsglaive probably would have went much differently.
You are completely, 100% correct.
What I meant is that you can understand the story just fine. However, certain key scenes, side characters, and lore explanations are either not present or not properly executed to get the most emotional weight out of them. SE is trying to address this.
That's how I feel about X-2 which is my favorite next to IX. How was Vegnagun even built? What's the deal with the Zanarkand/Bevelle War? How did Leblanc make herself look like Yuna with the dressphere? Is Tidus based on Shuyin?
Yes, only the Oracle can form Covenants with them and those essentially killed her. I do think she was awakening the Six more so that Noctis can use their power to fight back against the Empire and retrieve the Crystal than ending the Starscourge. Only the full power of the Lucian line and the Crystal's power could end Arydn once and for all.
I am curious if the 10 year 'recharge' period was needed for Noctis to have the ability to activate the full power of the kings to destroy the Accursed and then take their power into the Crystal / Astral World once Noctis died to destroy Arydn within as well. I really need to redo that Bahamut scene!
Kamen x Hunter
Banned
Yeah, but those things you mentioned are key in understanding the story. I didn't because the lore wasn't explained, I didn't follow Ravus's motivation because they didn't explain. So I would argue that all those things the game didn't have contribute to it not being easy to follow.
hipsterpants
Member
My opinion on FFXV's story is that the lore/core story (which is the lore I suppose) is fascinating but the execution is absolutely terrible. I think everything revolving around Ardyn (the Six/Ifrit/Starscourge/etc.) is super cool, even if I had to read a post on this very thread to understand it. If anyone is forgiving about the story, it's because it has the potential to be super cool. I, for example, really think Niflheim's involvement with the Daemons and their MTs are pretty dark and would love to explore it more, even if it wasn't handled very well (though better done that other elements of the story).
Some basic narrative changes I would make:
- Expand on Insomnia a lot in the main story (and not in a fucking movie I need to apparently watch beforehand). The fact that the "invasion" is awkwardly cut CGI scenes from the movie is embarrassing.
- The most obvious one, do more with Luna. More background/childhood scenes, hell more scenes of her doing stuff on her own would be good. I don't know if we needed a big meeting between Noctis and Luna before her death, but there obviously needed to be more there. I'm not sure how it would have worked, but a part with her as a guest party member would have been dope. This is by far the biggest game commits.
- Another obvious one is in regards to Ravus. He desperately needed more scenes and maybe a few cool boss battles. He's clearly supposed to be a tragic rival character, but it just doesn't work for obvious reasons.
Those are things I think they could have done without that much work. I would argue that Chapters 10-12 are the ones that need the most help. Chapter 9 feels fairly complete but is lacking in earlier story developments to make it effective, and I felt that Chapter 13 accomplished what it was attempting to do, even with the mediocre gameplay (and the somewhat poorly executed Prompto reveal). The WoR did exactly what it was supposed to do, but lacked cool potential gameplay/world-exploration stuff.
It's really frustrating reading all the expanding lore/plans for characters/cut and missing content because there's a lot of really cool stuff there. Instead we get a literal train ride to the end where a bunch of stuff happens in the background
Some basic narrative changes I would make:
- Expand on Insomnia a lot in the main story (and not in a fucking movie I need to apparently watch beforehand). The fact that the "invasion" is awkwardly cut CGI scenes from the movie is embarrassing.
- The most obvious one, do more with Luna. More background/childhood scenes, hell more scenes of her doing stuff on her own would be good. I don't know if we needed a big meeting between Noctis and Luna before her death, but there obviously needed to be more there. I'm not sure how it would have worked, but a part with her as a guest party member would have been dope. This is by far the biggest game commits.
- Another obvious one is in regards to Ravus. He desperately needed more scenes and maybe a few cool boss battles. He's clearly supposed to be a tragic rival character, but it just doesn't work for obvious reasons.
Those are things I think they could have done without that much work. I would argue that Chapters 10-12 are the ones that need the most help. Chapter 9 feels fairly complete but is lacking in earlier story developments to make it effective, and I felt that Chapter 13 accomplished what it was attempting to do, even with the mediocre gameplay (and the somewhat poorly executed Prompto reveal). The WoR did exactly what it was supposed to do, but lacked cool potential gameplay/world-exploration stuff.
It's really frustrating reading all the expanding lore/plans for characters/cut and missing content because there's a lot of really cool stuff there. Instead we get a literal train ride to the end where a bunch of stuff happens in the background
BigJonsson
Member
It eventually ends lol.........
Well, sure, but damn it's a long dungeon. Just passed the first set of Tonberries. FUCKING INSANE.
At least I got the Balmung....
Prompto took this picture that sums it all up.
X-2 has the scapegoat of being a mainline game yet also not quite a mainline game so it gets away with stupid bullshit like this.
FFXV should have its feet held to the fire.
After 46 levels and 40 hours I've just finished the game. It's probably the most fun I've had with a Final Fantasy since VII, so I consider it one of my favourites and one of the most memorable too.
I also wondered why almost everyone kept saying "despite its deep flaws" whenever talking about the game, but having finished it now I really understand where people are coming from. To me, it's so ambitious but it isn't able to finish all of what it set out to do. In some cases not even close.
Just some notes in my head that I'd like to jot down.
I also wondered why almost everyone kept saying "despite its deep flaws" whenever talking about the game, but having finished it now I really understand where people are coming from. To me, it's so ambitious but it isn't able to finish all of what it set out to do. In some cases not even close.
Just some notes in my head that I'd like to jot down.
- I wish it focused more on Luna before her passing, because right now the game doesn't even let you know her. They did a good job at showing how much she meant to Noctis, but this just makes you feel bad for him instead. Also, Ignis's injury felt like the real transition into the party's tragedy for the player.
- I also felt like the game started to blur its own view on Ardyn near the end. His motives against the Gods and Noctis make sense, so I'd have liked to have seen that backstory in a cutscene. The game was building up his character well, but near the end he felt relegated to a mandatory final boss rather than the tragic Ardyn it created. It all went by so fast.
- Speaking of that, does anyone feel like they cut out a large amount of the final battle? I've heard that the game was unfinished but it was the last few hours in particular that felt like it was hanging on by a thread. The way the game treated Ravus was weird too; built him up as this interesting character only to have him fill the checklist as the Chapter 13 cutscene and boss.
- I'm assuming Prompto, Gladiolus and Ignis are dead? That's what I got out of the ending. I have to say the few final scenes with the party were all brilliant. Some of the best I've seen in this series which made me really like the cast more than I ever thought I would. The biggest surprise was how natural and genuine they are.
- Graphics, music, world are all brilliant too. The lighting in this game has blown me away. Hellfire is one of the best boss battles in Final Fantasy.
- The battle system is great. I never got tired of warping.
- Random point, but I realized throughout the later chapters that I adopted using a claw grip so I could easily have my fingers on target, roll, attack and camera at any given time. It helped a lot through Chapter 13. Also, I didn't mind that chapter at all but it was the lack of mobility options that started to annoy me (or better put, the complete removal of your mobility).
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
So Noctis got to be king for like a month (aside from the 10 years he was in the upside down) and his dad got to be king for like 30 years? That sucks.
The story was decent for me, but could have been way more cohesive. I never really understood why his Dad didn't have to fight this darkness, or why Noctis had to die to beat it. I'd also love to see a game set before this one a few hundred years. I do like the world.
Also chapter 13 was terrible. If it was only 20 min of that, it might work, but it felt like 2 hours.
Also, who is king now?
The story was decent for me, but could have been way more cohesive. I never really understood why his Dad didn't have to fight this darkness, or why Noctis had to die to beat it. I'd also love to see a game set before this one a few hundred years. I do like the world.
Also chapter 13 was terrible. If it was only 20 min of that, it might work, but it felt like 2 hours.
Also, who is king now?
There isn't one; the royal line has ended. Which makes Ardyn pretty happy.
Not really sure on your other questions.
Also, since Noctis' mom was actually acknowledged in the Ultimania, do we know what happens to her? I'm actually pretty peeved that the game never mentions her existence.
Brotherhood
Persona 5
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