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SNES vs Genesis Sound

A

Ataru

Unconfirmed Member
I loved them both.

SNES had wavetable synthesis, which was generally better for orchestrated stuff (It excelled at RPG soundtracks like Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, and Secret of Mana).

Genesis had FM synthesis, which was much better for grungy techno. Go listen to Streets of Rage 1 or 2, preferably on (or captured off of) real hardware.

FM had a unique sound, there is a reason the Yamaha DX-7 was one of the most popular synths during the 1980s.
 
D

Datschge

Member
As the SPC-700 is a separate processor dedicated to the sound unit it can also be used to generate samples. An existing commercial example for this is a dynamically generated square wave with constantly varying duty cycle (sounding like a wailing e-guitar) programmed by Square's sound driver creator Minoru Akao that was used in Romancing Saga 3 and Front Mission: Gun Hazard.

At nesdev a homebrew developer recently posted a proof of concept how this can be used to generate FM like waveforms as samples: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14727

The SNES also has a little used feature to use channels not directly as sound output but as pitch modulation source for other channels (commercially used in e.g. Oracle from Secret of Mana). Somebody created an example of that usage: https://ucollective.org/audio/KungFuFurby/furby's+synthesis+snes/

KungFuFurby furthermore has an example using high quality samples at (as I wrote before muffled sounds is due to samples being low quality and the SNES not adding fake harmonics, and low quality samples are commonplace to fit as many different instruments into 32kB as possible): https://ucollective.org/audio/KungFuFurby/super+quality+series+track+1+~+the+quality+challenge+snes/

lazygecko said:
Interpolating low sample rate sounds is really a double edged sword, since the added aliasing does in several cases add some extra crispness that most would regard as beneficial. There are some games that would benefit from turning it off, and then there are others like Super Metroid where it would probably just end up sounding like a digital mess.
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Totally agree. I personally liken it to N64's forced texture filtering: I see why it's done and I understand that it's a technical achievement, but being able to optionally turn it off would have been better.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Dean Evans also makes extensive use of pitch modulation in his soundtracks. For example here he's dynamically creating pinch tones for the lead guitar samples.

I think he might also be the only one to have used the filtering function. Apparently this feature was completely undocumented in Nintendo's design docs.
 
D

Datschge

Member
Dean Evans is great indeed, good call. The FIR filter was criminally underused (and by all accounts the lack of documentation was due to Sony withholding it). Still bummed that Tales of Phantasia had a full EQ interface in its sound test that actually does nothing, all that missed potential.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
lazygecko said:
Look at how people complained over the audio in the new Duke Nukem 3D remaster. IIRC the original sound files were all in 8khz which adds a hefty dose of aliasing, but this all disappears after they added interpolation/filtering in the new version which removes all the high end byproducts (or whatever you'd call it).
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I thought they re-recorded the voices? If not, then I might have to check it out to see how it sounds.

Edit: And in what may be a genuinely good comparison, I'd recommend people hit up the Mortal Kombat 2 soundtracks. I think both sound incredibly solid, but obviously I have a preference for the MD version. I also think I own both on cart, but can't even remember what the SNES one sounded like other than listening to the VGM on my iPhone.

I did learn, though, that the difference in music between MK1/2 and 3 on the MD was horrific. Not sure what happened, but MK3 sounds like a turd in comparison.


PS. For iPhone users, I strongly recommend buying NoiseES. It's old, but plays pretty much everything SNES/MD I've thrown at it.
 
s_mirage

s_mirage

Member
Shaneus said:
I did learn, though, that the difference in music between MK1/2 and 3 on the MD was horrific. Not sure what happened, but MK3 sounds like a turd in comparison.
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Different arranger. Matt Furniss did 1+2, and took quite a lot of liberties in translating the tracks to the system in a way that had his signature sound. I'm not sure who did 3, but whoever it was decided to stick closer to the original arcade tracks. Honestly, I don't think they did a bad job, but the tracks did sound a little thin compared to the first two games. I'm not sure a Furniss like rearrangement would have worked very well for MK3, anyway.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
s_mirage said:
Different arranger. Matt Furniss did 1+2, and took quite a lot of liberties in translating the tracks to the system in a way that had his signature sound. I'm not sure who did 3, but whoever it was decided to stick closer to the original arcade tracks. Honestly, I don't think they did a bad job, but the tracks did sound a little thin compared to the first two games. I'm not sure a Furniss like rearrangement would have worked very well for MK3, anyway.
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Probably right. He did take quite a few liberties with it (I'm pretty sure he did with most of his compositions) but I've never compared the arcade music of any of the MK titles to either the MD or even SNES versions, for that matter. Have a feeling he did NBA Jam on the MD too, but the only credits I can find for that mention Jon Hey.
 
H

Herne

Member
Turrican3 said:
The Paula chip of the Amiga was a sick piece of music hardware as well considering it was released in 1985.

Not trying to dismiss the SID in any way, mind you.
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It was! Paula was a great chip. Many malign it nowadays though for being only a digital to analog converter, not a true chiptune chip, which is unfair. I love it's sound and would put it alongside the SPC700 any day.
 
E

EPSYLON EAGLE

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtl2JgDnbx8

The PSG channels
raw
 
P

PeaceUK

Member
SNES on a technical level had the better sound chip, but personally I preferred the style of music that they put out in Megadrive games more.

Although the Amiga destroyed both sound quality AND composer wise.
 
N

Nessus

Member
For certain multiplatform games I think the Genesis sound chip was better suited to the tone.

Like with Zombies At My Neighbours I vastly prefer the Genesis version's soundtrack because it better conveys the sorta 50s B-movie vibe way better, the exaggerated cheesey sounds.
 
S

SnowTeeth

Banned
It has probably been posted before, but I just found out that the composer of the just funded kickstarter Tanglewood released an album on a physical Mega Drive/Genesis cartridge back in 2010 - it's called Today

It's amazing and actual proof that anyone who thinks the MD can only produce "robot farts" needs their ears checked...
 
B

Beerman462

Member
Black Materia said:
Both were very good, there's no need for fanboysm here...
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EPSYLON EAGLE said:
There are certain tones that only FM synthesis can perform, excuse Super Nes soundchip fans, but that is unbeatable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-cQV12hJTo&index=17&list=PLSRvQoc-7SN2iPlnARGj9VtUvhbPkFV3C
Click to expand...

I think fanboyism is almost required to a point. Not rude behavior, but if you took someone who didn't grow up on the systems or games in general they would probably say both sound kind of terrible. I do think the SNES would probably win in a head to head, because of the use samples vs full blown synth.

I can appreciate the Genesis music as an accomplishment from an artistic point of view, but if someone isn't nostalgic or a fan of that sound, then it's probably not going to sound good to them. Synth can sound very good for specific applications, but I don't think it's as flexible as the SNES.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Beerman462 said:
I think fanboyism is almost required to a point. Not rude behavior, but if you took someone who didn't grow up on the systems or games in general they would probably say both sound kind of terrible. I do think the SNES would probably win in a head to head, because of the use samples vs full blown synth.

I can appreciate the Genesis music as an accomplishment from an artistic point of view, but if someone isn't nostalgic or a fan of that sound, then it's probably not going to sound good to them. Synth can sound very good for specific applications, but I don't think it's as flexible as the SNES.
Click to expand...

I never played Genesis in my youth, and I've grown to appreciate its clear, bright vibes more than the lo-fi sample quality of the SNES.
 
D

dogen

Member
Yeah, I only had gameboys as a kid, along with pc games. So I probably never heard any fm synthesis in games (apart from sonic occasionally), and pc games were mostly using cd audio by the time I played many of them.

So, I prefer the genesis because I honestly think it sounds cooler.
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
"Robot farts powered the '80s and early '90s electronic music scene across arcades, pop music, and television & movie scores. SNES can't compete."

FM Synthesis is still pretty prevalent in modern music even if it's not as ubiquitous as it was in the 80s where the Yamaha DX7 was on like every other fucking record.
 
G

gogojira

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
Robot farts powered the '80s and early '90s electronic music scene across arcades, pop music, and television & movie scores. SNES can't compete.
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Hedgehog in your name? Bias bullshit!

I kid. I grew up on SNES but still really appreciate the vastly different sounds of the Genesis. Some of the original Sonic tunes are lovely.
 
N

nded

Member
The thing I like about the better examples of Genesis music is that they feel like they sound exactly like they're supposed to. The FM synthesizer is an instrument in its own right; it has a limited scope and it's easy to screw up, but handled with skill it can excel within those limits. The SNES approach is far more versatile, but it's essentially trying to sound like something it's not and can come across as a muffled, low-fi compromise.
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
Teknopathetic said:
FM Synthesis is still pretty prevalent in modern music even if it's not as ubiquitous as it was in the 80s where the Yamaha DX7 was on like every other fucking record.
Click to expand...

That DX7 work on Out of the Woods on Taylor Swift's 1989 was amazing. Then they bring in the Voyager and it's 80sgasm.
 
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