• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Ted Cruz introduces constitutional amendment for congressional term limits

Status
Not open for further replies.
Despite research proving they actually increase the influence of special interests. I guess we're doing this.

https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=2940

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and U.S. Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) today proposed an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to impose term limits on members of Congress. The amendment would limit U.S. senators to two six-year terms and members of the U.S. House of Representatives to three two-year terms.

“D.C. is broken,” said Sen. Cruz. “The American people resoundingly agreed on Election Day, and President-elect Donald Trump has committed to putting government back to work for the American people. It is well past time to put an end to the cronyism and deceit that has transformed Washington into a graveyard of good intentions.”

Cruz continued: “The time is now for Congress, with the overwhelming support of the American people, to submit this constitutional amendment to the states for speedy ratification. With control of a decisive majority of the states, the House of Representatives, and the Senate, we have a responsibility to answer the voters’ call-to-action. We must deliver.”

“Term limits are the first step towards reforming Capitol Hill,” said Rep. DeSantis. “Eliminating the political elite and infusing Washington with new blood will restore the citizen legislature that our Founding Fathers envisioned. The American people have called for increased accountability and we must deliver. Senator Cruz has been instrumental in efforts to hold Congress accountable, and I look forward to working with him to implement term limits.”

“President Trump, Speaker Ryan and huge majorities of the American people are demanding term limits,” said U.S. Term Limits President Philip Blumel. “Congress must listen and pass the Cruz-DeSantis amendment immediately.

The enduring concept of a citizen legislature, of limiting unruly influence and abuse of power, and of promoting integrity and unclouded judgment in Washington through congressional term limits is a priority strongly supported by the American people. According to an October Rasmussen survey, 74 percent of Americans support establishing term limits for all members of Congress, while only 13 percent oppose term limits.

In December, Sen. Cruz and Rep. DeSantis published an op-ed in the Washington Post announcing their intention to introduce a term limits amendment in the 115th Congress.

The amendment was cosponsored in the Senate by Sens. Deb Fischer (R-Neb.), Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Mike Lee (R-Utah), and David Perdue (R-Ga.)

Complete text of the proposed amendment can be viewed here.
 

Bluth54

Member
The number of terms seems kinda low. Maybe three terms for senators and 6 terms for the house.

Not like it matters it wont pass.
 
It'll never happen. If it's one thing that pretty much everyone in Congress will agree to stand against, it'd probably be this.
 

devilhawk

Member
I don't think it is necessarily awful. But maybe it should be something like 3-4 senate terms, or 5-6 house terms. Also a rule that prevents politicians from moving from house to senate or vice versa. I also understand the issues that short term limits cause.
 

Machine

Member
The reason the state of Michigan is so fucked up is because the voters amended the state constitution to add term limits back in 1992. It completely shifted power to lobbyists and special interests. I wish like hell we could undo that mistake.
 

Blader

Member
The amendment was cosponsored in the Senate by Sens. Deb Fischer (R-Neb.), Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Mike Lee (R-Utah), and David Perdue (R-Ga.)

Not surprised Rubio is trying to get out of his job early again.
 

Barzul

Member
Doesn't sound like that great of an idea to me. Then again it might make members of congress more likely to stand up to the executive if they know they're on last term anyways.

The only way something like this works is if citizens united is eliminated and there are strict rules on lobbying. Because all I see is corps gaining even more power.
 
I always thought the constitution was an untouchable holy grail for everything.
No theyd love to put further restrictions on future liberal congresses and presidents from rasing taxes and redistributing wealth. That's what this and the balanced budget amdendments are all about.
 
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I hundred percent agree with him, much of corruption is the fact that there are no term limits and career politicians breed the worst and corruption

This is one of those ideas that sounds great to the dumbs, but is awful in reality.

Lobbyists will just really run everything.

"Sound great to the dumbs", lol, speak for yourself
 

SyNapSe

Member
“President Trump, Speaker Ryan and huge majorities of the American people are demanding term limits,” said U.S. Term Limits President Philip Blumel. “Congress must listen and pass the Cruz-DeSantis amendment immediately.

US term limits president? hah
 
I don't hate the idea, but 2 and 3 term limits are terribly short. It'll make congress even more of a revolving door for special interests. They could up those to 4 and 8 and I realize that these numbers are also pretty arbitrary.
 
I'm amused that this would purge the senate of most of the Republicans that are skeptical of Russia.

Wait, amused isn't the right word.
 

dramatis

Member
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I hundred percent agree with him, much of corruption is the fact that there are no term limits and career politicians breed the worst and corruption

"Sound great to the dumbs", lol, speak for yourself
See from earlier in the thread:
The reason the state of Michigan is so fucked up is because the voters amended the state constitution to add term limits back in 1992. It completely shifted power to lobbyists and special interests. I wish like hell we could undo that mistake.
 
I'm all in favor of term limits...assuming we also can get rid of lobbyists and gerrymandering at the same time.

Without those, I'm not sure it helps.
 

Faiz

Member
Legitimately surprised by the backlash here, I thought term limits were things everyone was in favor of. First I've heard of the drawbacks.

Guess I'm one of the "dumbs" 🙄
 
maybe you could like i don't know vote out your representative if you don't like the job they are doing. i think the limit on presidential terms has been kind of harmful as well.
 
Sent to die because there is no way in way this will pass regardless of any merit it has.

Hell there's not way in hell any amendment to the Constitution will ever pass ever again.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
so cruz presumably will not run for a third term in 2024, irrespective of how this turns out, and desantis is out for the 2018 elections?
 
Sent to die because there is no way in way this will pass regardless of any merit it has.

Hell there's not way in hell any amendment to the Constitution will ever pass ever again.

It is laughable at the idea that career lifelong politicians are going to pass a bill that would send them all out of work
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Legitimately surprised by the backlash here, I thought term limits were things everyone was in favor of. First I've heard of the drawbacks.

Guess I'm one of the "dumbs" 🙄

IIRC, freshmen congressmen are the most-likely to turn to special interests for funding and "guidance" for writing laws.
 

dramatis

Member
So no different than what's going on in Washington today
No, it's worse.

The fact is when you are fresh to a political seat, you are more reliant on lobbyists because they know how to navigate the system and they also have the ready data and research at their hands to argue their case. Another effect of short term limits is that people may run for the position just to gain connections, since they know when they have to leave. What you would get then are people who aren't interested in policy goals but future more lucrative positions.
 
Legitimately surprised by the backlash here, I thought term limits were things everyone was in favor of. First I've heard of the drawbacks.

Guess I'm one of the "dumbs" 🙄

The problem isn't with the career politicians, the problem is with the politicians that leave public office and then immediately use their stature and connections for powerful lobbyist organizations that work on behalf of the industries. Introducing term limits doesn't make politicians magically less corrupt, it just makes more lobbyists.

Put another way; do you think this is going to help you and me, or Northrop and Lockheed?
 

FyreWulff

Member
Legitimately surprised by the backlash here, I thought term limits were things everyone was in favor of. First I've heard of the drawbacks.

Guess I'm one of the "dumbs" 🙄

at first it's like "limiting power!" but then you realize you're basically dumping out all built up institutional knowledge and so on pointlessly.

Also the way this is set up, the House will completely overturn once for every maxed out Senator's limits. That means it'll be a lot harder to get deals done if everyone you worked with on something in the other chamber is gone the day you swear in for term #2.
 
IIRC, freshmen congressmen are the most-likely to turn to special interests for funding and "guidance" for writing laws.
Yup, while even the most bought and paid for career politician knows he can't give his donors everything they want because he needs to have something to offer them for the next election.
 

Blader

Member
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I hundred percent agree with him, much of corruption is the fact that there are no term limits and career politicians breed the worst and corruption



"Sound great to the dumbs", lol, speak for yourself
Career politicians are actually answerable to their constituents because they have to run for multiple elevations. Senators or congressional reps who are only there for a couple years can get in and out without doing much of anything (policy making takes a long time) and building connections to benefit them in the private sector afterward. Congressional term limits exacerbate and accelerate Washington's revolving door problem.

And that's putting aside the brain drain you create by dumping policymakers every few years.
 

kmfdmpig

Member
One of the takeaways, I think, from Trump's (EC) win is that many Americans buy the argument that political experience = bad and being an "outsider" = good. In that type of climate term limits would likely have a lot of support.
Personally, I think it's a mistake as experience can be quite helpful and should be valued and there is no reason to assume that a Senator in his/her 20th year in office would be more corrupt than one in his/her 5th year in office.
 

RDreamer

Member
It's amazing how many people here fall for this. Here's some links I've pulled in the past about term limits being an awful idea:


Example One

Legislative leaders used to be chosen on the basis of seniority and political savvy. Now, with the clock ticking as soon as a legislator takes his seat, leadership jobs and committee chairmanships often go to whomever can raise the most money fastest for the election campaigns of his colleagues.
It’s not really coincidence that many special interest bills get fast-tracked for consideration, which is why the FBI was poking around the Capitol this year, investigating allegations of “pay-to-play” deals.

When a complicated bill comes before the legislators, it generally is written by and vetted by lobbyists and lawyers for those outside interests. Consider Senate Bill 228 from last session, which would have overturned a 1976 law that forbids utilities from charging customers for construction costs of power plants until the plants go on line.

The bill was hideously complicated. Lawmakers depended utterly on lobbyists for Ameren Corp. of St. Louis to tell them what was in it. The bill was laid aside only after consumer groups and this editorial page disclosed the bill’s potential hidden costs to consumers.


Example two

DETROIT- State legislators spend less time monitoring state agencies since the introduction of term limits for Michigan legislators - despite the fact that advocates for term limits promised the opposite effect.

The revelation is just one of several findings in the study by a team of WSU political science faculty led by Marjorie Sarbaugh-Thompson, professor of political science in WSU's College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, which was published in the Feb. 2010 edition of the Legislative Studies Quarterly. The study showed the six-year term limit for state representatives and eight-year term limit for state senators have largely failed to fulfill promises made to Michigan citizens who voted the 1992 proposal into effect.

"Many Michigan citizens do not realize that our term limits are among the shortest in the nation, or that only 15 states have them at all," Sarbaugh-Thompson said. "These term limits were sold to Michigan voters on the notion that they would sever close ties with lobbyists and cause legislators to be more independent," Sarbaugh-Thompson said. "In reality, we found them to have the opposite impact."

Research was conducted through four different rounds of interviews with Michigan legislators between 1998 and 2004. In addition to Dr. Sarbaugh-Thompson, the research team included WSU political science faculty members Charles Elder, Ph.D., John Strate, Ph.D., Richard Elling, Ph.D. and Lyke Thompson, Ph.D., director of WSU's Center for Urban Studies, as well as Kelly LeRoux, Ph.D., assistant professor at the University of Kansas. Based on more than 400 interviews, the team assessed who or what influenced legislators' policy-making decisions as well as how conflicts within their committees and between party members are resolved.

Campaign finance reports were also reviewed to investigate whether representatives' financial relationships with special interest groups had changed from before and after term limits were introduced.

The results of the research show that lobbyists' influence over legislators was not only maintained after term limits were in effect, but may have increased. For instance, special interests' importance as a source of "information and guidance" on a bill about school choice increased after term limits began. Lobbyists were also cited among the top three actors that determined whether a bill reached the floor of the chamber after term limits were in effect.

The study also found that term limits greatly diminished the amount of time and effort legislators spend monitoring state-run agencies, despite the fact they were supposed to increase legislators' independence from bureaucratic influence.

"Even when the governor and the legislators are of the same party, these checks are important," Sarbaugh-Thompson said. "But this research shows that many legislators elected after term limits don't even realize this is part of their job."

Sarbaugh-Thompson believes the problem stems from the limited time that legislators have to understand their jobs, coupled with a lack of veteran legislators to mentor and train incoming representatives. One possible solution to the problem would be to extend term limits for Michigan legislators. "By extending term limits, freshmen representatives would have experienced legislators to mentor them, committee chairs and party leaders would have enough time to develop skills and relationships, while still preventing them from serving for decades.

"In addition, a longer term means that rather than campaigning for their next position, legislators would have a longer time to focus on their current position of leading the state effectively."


Example Three

Finally, political careerism does not seem to end with term limits. Rather than returning to their previous careers or private sector jobs, long-serving members in term-limited states are likely to run for other elective office, particularly for the upper chamber or a local office.

The “lame duck” factor has played a critical role in the declining influence of leaders in term-limited legislatures. Most leaders assume their leadership position in the last term before they are termed out of the chamber, so members know that the leaders’ time in office is limited. They therefore see less value in cooperating with the leader, and leaders are less able to sanction members who challenge them.


Example Four

First, when a legislator knows she will never again face reelection, the deterrent effect of the electoral sanction disappears, leaving fewer disincentives for a politician to engage in corruption. This paper found that the corruption was twice as prevalent among Brazilian mayors in their final term, compared to similarly situated mayors who could run for reelection. (A similar study found that increasing the maximum number of terms for Brazilian mayors from two to three was more effective in reducing corruption than increasing the mayor’s salary.) This result is actually quite intuitive. Indeed, if one believes that certain politicians are seeking office for personal enrichment, then when there is a definite end date for that person’s political career, they are likely to try to “cash in” before it is too late. Even a study arguing that term limits have positive effects on governance suggests that removing the possibility of reelection offsets term limits’ demand-reducing effect. This suggests that if states impose term limits, it will be important to balance the desire to keep entrenched legislators from becoming corrupt against the potential risk that otherwise upstanding legislators feel more comfortable engaging in corruption because they will never again face reelection.

...

Third, to the extent one is concerned that campaign finance gives special interests outsize power to influence policy, replacing long-serving members with new members might actually increase special interest influence. For example, if a long-serving member is electorally “safe,” it will be more difficult for private interests to influence her. If term limits force the incumbent legislator to retire, her replacement is unlikely to have the same ability to act counter to special interests without increased political risk. Indeed, the current system by which parties select candidates suggests that the very donors who could not “capture” the hypothetical long-serving legislator might be the people who choose the candidate who replaces her. Consistent with this, some research has found a correlation between increased campaign contributions and the adoption of term limits in Ohio. In short, term limits probably risk enhancing special interest powers that may breed the seeds of corruption.
 

Poeton

Member
The irony that a man who touts himself as a strict constitutionalist would introduce an amendment that would drastically alter the constitution is pretty damn alarming.

But then again, Teddy has always tried to sell himself as someone who knows exactly what our founding fathers intentions were.

So this is an attempt by him to cash in on his "expertise."
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Even with the lobbying issue still on the table this is a great start.

Instead of three two year terms for Congress people, they should change it to two four year terms. As it is it seems like Congress people are constantly campaigning and thus don't have a lot of time for actual legislation.
 
Yeah, this is stupid.

There's a certain narrative that politics and policy is something any idiot can do, so the more often you "clean house" the better.

This is absolutely not the case. Politics is just as difficult as any other professional occupation if not more, and depends a lot on coalition building and negotiation to get things done. Break those coalitions and remove the incentive to negotiate with those politicians who know each other well and you have gridlock.

It's bizarre we call for term limits on politicians, but wouldn't dream of firing a dentist, a professor, or a lawyer just because they had the job for 8 years.
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, this is stupid.

There's a certain narrative that politics and policy is something any idiot can do, so the more often you "clean house" the better.

This is absolutely not the case. Politics is just as difficult as any other professional occupation if not more, and depends a lot on coalition building and negotiation to get things done. Break those coalitions and remove the incentive to negotiate with those politicians who know each other well and you have gridlock.

It's bizarre we call for term limits on politicians, but wouldn't dream of firing a dentist, a professor, or a lawyer just because they had the job for 8 years
.

I think the inherent differences in the purpose of politicians versus professionals is important to remember here, but I sort of get your point. It would be strange to force out really good, attentive, representative leaders by an arbitrary date.

However, I also can see why people would be wary of keeping potentially disinterested, tone deaf incumbents in office in a climate where it seems difficult to unseat them.

How about a compromise: why not suggest consecutive term limits? You can't run for federal office in a row for the same seat. That way, you're forced to "rotate" back out into the world of your constituents every other term before you can run again, giving voters the chance to vet you again a day giving you the chance to really take the pulse and get reacquainted with your constituents before returning to office.
 
”D.C. is broken," said Sen. Cruz. ”The American people resoundingly agreed on Election Day, and President-elect Donald Trump has committed to putting government back to work for the American people. It is well past time to put an end to the cronyism and deceit that has transformed Washington into a graveyard of good intentions."

It's difficult to take anyone seriously when they open with this statement.

Also, nothing but Rs supporting the amendment is an obvious red flag.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom