PyroPaperPlanes
Member
The season 2 Christmas special and season 3 were phenomenal, I highly suggest everyone check it out.
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San Junipero (Black Mirror S03E04) might be my favorite episode of TV ever
- Thread starter AuthenticM
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That one remains my absolute favourite.
Funny, just this minute watched this episode and logged into GAF to see this thread. It was a great story. Touching, tragic and thought-provoking in equal measure.
I've been watching Black Mirror since the beginning and have two to go. Though there are standouts, the consistent quality is remarkable. Every episode has something interesting to say and they're all captivating in quite varied ways. Definitely one of the best 'tv shows' I've ever seen, though short films feels more apt as a description.
I've been watching Black Mirror since the beginning and have two to go. Though there are standouts, the consistent quality is remarkable. Every episode has something interesting to say and they're all captivating in quite varied ways. Definitely one of the best 'tv shows' I've ever seen, though short films feels more apt as a description.
Glass Shark
Banned
I must be a robot because that episode didn't really do anything for me. I think they tipped their hand too early and beat the audience over the head with exposition at some point.
AuthenticM
Member
That shot happens while the episode is blasting Heaven is a Place on Earth. Those servers are literally Heaven, because mankind created it. This is further supported by Kelly's speech about her husband and daughter being "nowhere". Because Heaven isn't some fantastical place created by some imaginary man-in-the-sky; it's right here, on Earth. Cue the song.
No, I'm asking people to support their interpretation with content from what they are interpreting.
Hmm, I didn't thing of Quagmire this way. But then again, you have to ask yourself: is there any hint in the episode that the women would end up like that? Every person is different, and these two seem mentally stable to me. Also, there is the scene where Yorkie says that they can euthanize themselves if need be. To me, this is inserted in the episode to deny the interpretation that San Junipero could end up being a purgatory for some.
The One Who Knocks
Member
It's very existence shows that it has ended up as a purgatory foe some people. The hint that they may end up like that is exactly what Kelly says in the argument, that it's a place where nothing matters and that it's 'forever'.
The option to remove themselves from the program is suggested, yet the fact that the Quagmire exists at all raises questions about how likely people are to use it. Both Yorkie and Kelly state that they believe that after death there is nothing, and this could be the exact reason people become trapped in the program. If you believe there is indeed nothing, then it's entirely possible that even after spending years in the same place, where nothing truly matters, not only would a fear of 'death'/removal (and it is worth noting on this point that San Junipero's very existence rests upon people fearing and being unable or unwilling to die/lose consciousness after death) be heightened (as it also creates a personal burden to actually remove oneself, it takes the place of suicide in a world where there is otherwise no death), but one could quite easily feel that surely 'something' (no matter how bleak, unimportant, and unchanging) is better than an irreversible nothing, in the hope that maybe some day they will have a genuine feeling there after many decades of repetition.
There is absolutely enough material to feel that the episode ends on a genuinely positive note, but there is undoubtedly enough present to suggest that while it is positive for some time, it could very quickly lead to a very bleak existence; (edit) and I don't think this is a bad thing, it's a very provocative episode and it raises some interesting questions which cannot be definitively answered from the content of the episode.
On a side note, I think a previous poster raises a very good point about how the episode brings into question the concept of eternal love.
The option to remove themselves from the program is suggested, yet the fact that the Quagmire exists at all raises questions about how likely people are to use it. Both Yorkie and Kelly state that they believe that after death there is nothing, and this could be the exact reason people become trapped in the program. If you believe there is indeed nothing, then it's entirely possible that even after spending years in the same place, where nothing truly matters, not only would a fear of 'death'/removal (and it is worth noting on this point that San Junipero's very existence rests upon people fearing and being unable or unwilling to die/lose consciousness after death) be heightened (as it also creates a personal burden to actually remove oneself, it takes the place of suicide in a world where there is otherwise no death), but one could quite easily feel that surely 'something' (no matter how bleak, unimportant, and unchanging) is better than an irreversible nothing, in the hope that maybe some day they will have a genuine feeling there after many decades of repetition.
There is absolutely enough material to feel that the episode ends on a genuinely positive note, but there is undoubtedly enough present to suggest that while it is positive for some time, it could very quickly lead to a very bleak existence; (edit) and I don't think this is a bad thing, it's a very provocative episode and it raises some interesting questions which cannot be definitively answered from the content of the episode.
On a side note, I think a previous poster raises a very good point about how the episode brings into question the concept of eternal love.
AuthenticM
Member
True. But to me, it's that there seems to be more evidence for the happy ending than otherwise, which makes the scale of interpretation tip in its favour.
Another point I forgot to mention: we are told the people who hang out at The Quagmire do so to "try to feel something". Yorkie is put in direct contrast to that at the end when she becomes a resident and she starts feeling everything from the sun on her skin to the sand under her toes. Also, Yorkie and Kelly are in love, and Belinda Carlisle's song makes it a point to associate love and heaven.
Another point I forgot to mention: we are told the people who hang out at The Quagmire do so to "try to feel something". Yorkie is put in direct contrast to that at the end when she becomes a resident and she starts feeling everything from the sun on her skin to the sand under her toes. Also, Yorkie and Kelly are in love, and Belinda Carlisle's song makes it a point to associate love and heaven.
MGHA
Member
Bingo.
That's fine if you didn't read into the ending that way. Everyone has different interpretations.
hey_monkey
Banned
firehawk12
Subete no aware
She wasn't allowed to "move" to San Junipero because
her parents had power of attorney, which is why she needed to marry Kelly.
This is basically where I stand with season 3. Although I would said Nosedive is the absolute worst episode of the entire series.
I agree about Nosedive, but I think Shut Up and Dance is my least favourite episode. It was a decent story well told (they all are), but it didn't feel that different to thrillers I've already seen - same issue I had with Nosedive. I prefer the episodes that show me something unlike anything I've seen before. Season 2 was the strongest for me overall for this reason, although I'd lump The Waldo Moment in with the less creative episodes.
Season 1 is the most consistent, season 2 (including the holiday special) is the most creative, and season 3 is the most safe. I loved season 3, but it felt a bit less acerbic than the other two.
Right there with you. Definitely one of the most moving love stories I've ever seen.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Nosedive is so underrated. It made me felt all kinds of things that can't be explained seeing the protagonist yelling with the other man in the jail out of their lungs yet filled with relief and enjoyment. It's...beautiful in an alternative way.
Psychoward
Banned
TRUE HEAVEN IS A PLACE ON EARTH
love it, black mirror in general has so many high quality episodes
love it, black mirror in general has so many high quality episodes
Psychoward
Banned
Haha, what kind of fucking student projects are you guys watching that have the production values of San Junipero? It shits all over most tv in general.
just got into this show earlier this week, and watched that episode two days ago. It was fantastic. I love the mood and the feel, and the fact that it was actually an uplifting story versus a dark one. Because of the nature of the show I was worried some crazy shit would happen but it was just generally interesting. had me tearing up a bit at the end there. very well acted and handled.
edit: wait, people didn't like nosedive? it was the first episode I saw and it's still in my top 3, easily. Great concept and handled so well. Enthralling episode. I think my least favorites would be white bear and the very first episode
edit: wait, people didn't like nosedive? it was the first episode I saw and it's still in my top 3, easily. Great concept and handled so well. Enthralling episode. I think my least favorites would be white bear and the very first episode
AuthenticM
Member
That trite criticism is often used by those with superficial observational prowess.
It's technically possible I guess, but they only allowed people who were on the verge of death or whatever to visit, not just anyone.
1. San Junipero
2. White Christmas
3. Nosedive
4. The Entire History of You
5. Be Right Back
blame space
Banned
yeah it's good
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think more than most episodes, this one feels by design much more open to interpretation.
Heaven on Earth seems absolutely chosen to state the humanity makes Earth its own heaven or hell. The potential negatives of the post-human afterlife can be read as an observation that people decide whether existence is good or bad, and have to assign it meaning themselves.
It reminds me of the ending of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which can be read as sad and tragic or stubbornly optimistic in the face of everything that can potentially make life hell.
It reminds me of the ending of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which can be read as sad and tragic or stubbornly optimistic in the face of everything that can potentially make life hell.
It was okay. It felt pretty cheesy. The tech seemed silly to me. The romantic interest sort of came out of nowhere, I didn't understand their relationship, it seemed like they barely knew each other.
It's a pretty hit and miss show, and this episode was a miss for me. Glad it's a hit for others though! Shows the strengths of the series, it covers a lot of ground for a lot of different people to have their own personal favourite episode. Nothing yet has beaten the first episode for me personally!
At least in the previous episode with a 'resurrected' person, it was in the real world. What's the point in keeping dead people in an MMO on a server? The tech seemed far too advanced too. If this other world is sooooo realistic, what's the point in living in this one? Why weren't there more things to do in this virtual world? If they copied the lady's mind as she died, how come they couldn't have just copied that lady's mind while she was alive to upload for the first one to be happy?
It's a pretty hit and miss show, and this episode was a miss for me. Glad it's a hit for others though! Shows the strengths of the series, it covers a lot of ground for a lot of different people to have their own personal favourite episode. Nothing yet has beaten the first episode for me personally!
Psychoward
Banned
Nosedive is way too high, I'd put your 4 and 5 above it and then also shut up and dance and white bear above it but other than that those are basically my top 5 as well.
actually JUST finished white christmas and really enjoyed it. it's almost like a triple episode haha. I agree completely with your top 5 I think
^^Middle story is beyond fucked up, ending of the last story too....
Nosedive is heavy handed but I'm a sucker for dragging the protagonist through the mud and learning an important life lesson stories. Also Bryce is delightfully thicc....
Nosedive is heavy handed but I'm a sucker for dragging the protagonist through the mud and learning an important life lesson stories. Also Bryce is delightfully thicc....
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
1. It seemed clear many people couldn't accept a virtual world as a legitimate way of living or as an afterlife, which would be a big reason a lot of people hadn't just demanded to go virtual.
2. For the purposes of this story, San Junipero is presented more as a solution for people who are elderly or dying from terminal illness. That may not be unrealistic. Such technology would be controversial, and would likely be pioneered by people in extreme circumstances. Such as those who are at the end of their life.
3. There seemed to be no greater conspiracy behind San Junipero in the story, so one would assume the entire reason it exists is to preserve human existence. Again, given its status as a virtual hospice for the dying, you could reason that it's a pilot technology. Inevitably, humanity might give up organic existence and death to go digital. But this story takes place in a world just beginning to explore that transition.
4. Making copies and the mind transfer technology is probably not specified for a reason; to avoid getting bogged down with circular debates over the "clone problem". It's presented as a simple and genuine transfer of consciousness from body to digital, therefore, making a copy of yourself as a "gift" for another person wouldn't fit with story being told.
2. For the purposes of this story, San Junipero is presented more as a solution for people who are elderly or dying from terminal illness. That may not be unrealistic. Such technology would be controversial, and would likely be pioneered by people in extreme circumstances. Such as those who are at the end of their life.
3. There seemed to be no greater conspiracy behind San Junipero in the story, so one would assume the entire reason it exists is to preserve human existence. Again, given its status as a virtual hospice for the dying, you could reason that it's a pilot technology. Inevitably, humanity might give up organic existence and death to go digital. But this story takes place in a world just beginning to explore that transition.
4. Making copies and the mind transfer technology is probably not specified for a reason; to avoid getting bogged down with circular debates over the "clone problem". It's presented as a simple and genuine transfer of consciousness from body to digital, therefore, making a copy of yourself as a "gift" for another person wouldn't fit with story being told.
Their relationship didn't come out of nowhere, it clearly evolves throughout the episode, I don't get you at all.
Having already seen the Meow Meow Beans episode of Community along with plenty of "person stops caring about hollow, superfluous social mores" stories, it just didn't feel fresh; which is something I could never say about the vast majority of Black Mirror episodes.
That said, I still really enjoyed it! It's one of my least favourite episodes, but there's not been a single Black Mirror episode I've disliked.
Black Mirror is on my list of shows to watch soon but it will be a while before I get through to this particular episode. Is this a show where I can watch San Junipero right now and get it or will I need to watch the first couple of seasons first and watch the episode in it's order?
AuthenticM
Member
As I said in the OP, every episode is stand-alone and completely independent of the others, so you could watch San Junipero right now. However, as some others have pointed, that episode is not indicative of what Black Mirror is usually about (in tone, at least), so it might not be the best thing to watch San Junipero as your introductory episode.
Thanks for this. I didn't read the OP all the way because I was worried about series spoilers but I've heard so much about this episode that I had to check out the thread. I'll watch the episode but understand that the series itself is a bit different. I'm looking forward to it!
Nosedive is so underrated. Spoiler below obviously.
It is apparently that simple, but it devolves into one of the most terrifying worlds of the series, because these scores literally stratify their society, they are not "superfluous", you are denied basic services like transportation and housing, hell even healthcare, based around your numbers.
And then when she is removed of her lenses the world becomes darker and plain, she is absolutely marveled at something as simple as dust floating in the air, people think the whole pastel tone was just a style choice and some are put off by it, but it's actually how people see the world, an instagram filter of sorts embedded into their eyes.
First of all you're being way too anal about how the sci fi works, if you had a design document for it, it wouldn't be sci fi.
Secondly it's implied that they don't "copy" but they cut and paste, otherwise you run into a clone situation and a philosophical issue where your conscious exists in two places. The episode DOES confirm that the conscious that carries over is indeed the same one as outside, which is what facilitates the entire afterlife thing in the first place. The only way they can be there permanently is if they leave their RL behind.
The motivation to even allow people to do this would be:
1) Money
2) Research
3) Altruism
4) A need to keep servers populated with players to allow 1,2 and 3 to continue. No one likes a dead MMO.
You're right - I meant superfluous in the sense that the approval of polite society isn't needed for true happiness, as her brother already knows, and as she learns by the end of the episode. But yes, it absolutely does stratify society, and create very disparate existences for haves vs have-nots; like most class systems do to varying degrees.
I think of Nosedive as a modern take on the old story of a buttoned-up person focused on class advancement, who chooses to throw it away for love, or something else unrelated to the wealth or power that keeping up appearances within that social circle would win. For me, the best Black Mirror episodes aren't new takes on old ideas; they're brand new ideas.
No. There are Easter eggs, but they're just for fun. Every episode is set in its own universe, for all intents and purposes.
I get what you mean. I think the biggest flaw of the episode was not expanding on her brother, which would have set it apart from similar stories. Here is someone who supposedly "sees" through the "bullshit" of the world, but ironically he is still in the system, he still looks for ratings from his gaming friends in order to boost his score, it's implied he cannot even afford rent and has to live with his sister, and when she exploded and threw a rant in the lines of "why would I care for some low 3" he's baffled, in that universe it seems to be a huge insult.
Being actually free in this world has a price, as seen at the end of the episode, and the people who think themselves "free" are actually just as trapped into it. The trope that true happiness comes from leaving appearances is a bit twisted in the episode, after all she has lost everything and there is no implication she now will be happy, but it could have been twisted even more by focusing on the irony of her brother's situation.
That's why she was staring at the dust. I didn't get it because after the scene where they took off her lenses, they show her in a jail cell, which are normally darker and plain.
Reckless Abandon
Member
Easily one of the best Black Mirror Episodes, right up there with White Christmas and 15 Million Merits.
Season 3 was a pleasant surprise. The only episode I really didn't care for was ironically the one I was most pumped for: The Trachtenberg-directed Playtest. Wasn't too high on Nosedive either but the ending pretty much makes up for the whole thing.
I had just managed to get "Heaven is a Place on Earth" out of my head until I seen this thread. So much for that heh.
Season 3 was a pleasant surprise. The only episode I really didn't care for was ironically the one I was most pumped for: The Trachtenberg-directed Playtest. Wasn't too high on Nosedive either but the ending pretty much makes up for the whole thing.
I had just managed to get "Heaven is a Place on Earth" out of my head until I seen this thread. So much for that heh.
Dreams-Visions
Member
lol, really?
Never watch ever Six Feet Under. It may be the end of you if a single 80-minute episode can elicit this sort of response.
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