Support NeoGAF

[AlphaSnake]

Was having a fun discussion with my wife, curious what Auto-GAF thinks.

How much do you think you'd need bring home a year before being comfortable buying an entry exotic (example Hurucan) or any car around that range (so $250,000 - $300,000)?

Household? About $400K-$500K a year. If you're mortgage isn't stupidly expensive and you're not living pointlessly lavish, a $4500 monthly payment on a $33,000-42,000 monthly earning isn't that crazy. The other car or two can be some cheap shit $300 leases and a $2000 mortgage.

 

[Crayon]

Feelin this.

 

[ameratsu]

Feelin this.

The colour reminds me of that top gear episode where they design elderly-friendly vehicles and Clarkson has his painted the colour of a hearing aid.

 

[Pinewood]

Do you have room for a spare car? Or failing that, a motorcycle?

Let me rephrase, how big is your living room?

Heh

 

[Pinewood]

http://jalopnik.com/the-kia-stinger-gt-is-kias-fantastic-365-hp-rear-wheel-1790949403

The new Kia Stinger looks interesting, I applaud them for making it look different than it's competiton (340i, S4 etc). I just don't like the center dashboard, looks like a Mercedes knock off interior.

Poor mans Giulia?

Spoiler

I am very interested

Hopefully they reveal pricing soon

 

[Killer Queen]

Well you can start by working on the car. What kind of car and what year?

No clue but I'll try to check it out tomorrow and tell you, though it's nothing special or interesting.

 

[Browny]

Poor mans Giulia?

Spoiler

I am very interested

Hopefully they reveal pricing soon

That's the first thing I thought too - and I'd have either given a chance. The Kia might be on my list for a couple of years time once I don't have to pack a pushchair for the youngest.

 

[Crayon]

Let me rephrase, how big is your living room?

Heh

Yeah can I crash there for a few weeks?

No clue but I'll try to check it out tomorrow and tell you, though it's nothing special or interesting.

Tat would be perfect. I can't ell you much about mechanics school but I can tell you that I've never met a mechanic who didn't start off learning by themselves so it would really help just to have something to work on. And it's not hard to screw something up bad as you are learning so you don't want to start off on someone else's stuff. Plus, you will end up with unplanned downtime sooner than later so an old spare car in the garage is ideal to start with.

 

[Pinewood]

Picked up my Giulietta. 2011 1,4 125kw in antracite gray(I think)

Could be a bit louder 😅

 

[AlphaSnake]

Poor mans Giulia?

Spoiler

I am very interested

Hopefully they reveal pricing soon

The rear end definitely looks like an Alfa.

And therein lies the problem with Kia after all these years. They're still a bootleg/rip off manufacturer. Here we are, the lot of us, all pointing out things that look remarkably similar to other cars, and none of us are wrong. Time and again, Kia has always had at least a few unoriginal automobiles in their lineup. The Stinger will be a bargain, and likely even a good car, but it's as unoriginal as its Grand Theft Auto name.

 

[jongkookie]

And therein lies the problem with Kia after all these years. They're still a bootleg/rip off manufacturer. Here we are, the lot of us, all pointing out things that look remarkably similar to other cars, and none of us are wrong. Time and again, Kia has always had at least a few unoriginal automobiles in their lineup. The Stinger will be a bargain, and likely even a good car, but it's as unoriginal as its Grand Theft Auto name.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Korean friend of mine about cars, basically he said that Kia-Hyundai's primary market is still South Korea so a lot of their designs are aimed for that market instead of globally. And since a lot of Koreans are incessantly obsessed with European trends and culture, a majority of Korean companies tend to design their products as if it was European. Then once you factor in the costs of imports in SK, it's supposedly much more lucrative for companies to imitate designs there rather than make their own.

 

[kharma45]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Korean friend of mine about cars, basically he said that Kia-Hyundai's primary market is still South Korea so a lot of their designs are aimed for that market instead of globally. And since a lot of Koreans are incessantly obsessed with European trends and culture, a majority of Korean companies tend to design their products as if it was European. Then once you factor in the costs of imports in SK, it's supposedly much more lucrative for companies to imitate designs there rather than make their own.

They look European surely because their two top designers are European and both came from VAG.

As for ripping off designs. Picanto, Rio, Soul, Cee'd, etc all look fairly distinct. There's nothing they have for sale that springs to mind that looks a copy of anything else. The only thing that does really is the interior of the current optima reminds me of the five series.

 

[Killer Queen]

Yeah can I crash there for a few weeks?



Tat would be perfect. I can't ell you much about mechanics school but I can tell you that I've never met a mechanic who didn't start off learning by themselves so it would really help just to have something to work on. And it's not hard to screw something up bad as you are learning so you don't want to start off on someone else's stuff. Plus, you will end up with unplanned downtime sooner than later so an old spare car in the garage is ideal to start with.

So it looks like it's a Toyota Tercel CE, not sure what year but probably late 90's. I know that it works, it's just unused so I'm not really sure what to do with it from here. (Though some rearranging of the garage will probably come first)

 

[jongkookie]

They look European surely because their two top designers are European and both came from VAG.

As for ripping off designs. Picanto, Rio, Soul, Cee'd, etc all look fairly distinct. There's nothing they have for sale that springs to mind that looks a copy of anything else. The only thing that does really is the interior of the current optima reminds me of the five series.

I know Peter Scheyer is still part of Kia-Hyundai, who's the other one?

I actually agree that they have some fairly distinct looking cars but it's the design language I feel that is still European.

Like when you see a Toyota/Honda/Mazda you know it's a Japanese car, same thing for Ford/Chevy. That's not to say they haven't borrowed elements from European design, just that the Japanese/American styling is more prominent.

A really great example is Nissan... their cars are looking more and more like Renaults with a few Japanese styling cues here and there.

 

[kharma45]

I know Peter Scheyer is still part of Kia-Hyundai, who's the other one?

I actually agree that they have some fairly distinct looking cars but it's the design language I feel that is still European.

Like when you see a Toyota/Honda/Mazda you know it's a Japanese car, same thing for Ford/Chevy. That's not to say they haven't borrowed elements from European design, just that the Japanese/American styling is more prominent.

A really great example is Nissan... their cars are looking more and more like Renaults with a few Japanese styling cues here and there.

Luc Donckerwolke. Used to design Lamborghini, Bentley and Audi. He has some pretty great designs in his back catalogue.

I guess they don't have what the Japanese have which is a certain sharpness to their designs of that makes sense nor American chunkiness. I wouldn't call their cars overtly European looking but they've got the hang of what makes a good European car. Now that they've got Albert Biermann on board as well who used to hear BMW's M division I'd expect their future cars to drive well too. You've things at the minute like the Pro_Cee'd GT that are competent but the next generation of it and the i30 when the N version launches I think might give hot hatch buyers a thing to think about.

 

[Crayon]

So it looks like it's a Toyota Tercel CE, not sure what year but probably late 90's. I know that it works, it's just unused so I'm not really sure what to do with it from here. (Though some rearranging of the garage will probably come first)

Couldn't be more perfect car to start wrenching. Go introduce yourself at your local autoparts store by having them order you the appropriate Hayes/Chilton manual and you'll be on your way. The manual will tell you exactly how to inspect and tune up the car as well as what tools you will need. You will need a floor jack, jackstands, and a metric socket set to start.

 

[Killer Queen]

Couldn't be more perfect car to start wrenching. Go introduce yourself at your local autoparts store by having them order you the appropriate Hayes/Chilton manual and you'll be on your way. The manual will tell you exactly how to inspect and tune up the car as well as what tools you will need. You will need a floor jack, jackstands, and a metric socket set to start.

Sounds good, thank you for your help and advice!

 

[Pinewood]

So it looks like it's a Toyota Tercel CE, not sure what year but probably late 90's. I know that it works, it's just unused so I'm not really sure what to do with it from here. (Though some rearranging of the garage will probably come first)

You mean a BMW E36 M3?

 

[TylerD]

You mean a BMW E36 M3?

Exactly!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=227858130&postcount=18518

 

[Killer Queen]

Your jokes are over my head

 

[TylerD]

Your jokes are over my head

The E36 BMW M3 from the link in my previous post is a Toyota Tercel in disguise.

 

[Lucius86]

Someone has hit my XF whilst it was parked in a B&Q. Guess it was bound to happen at some point considering how bloody long the car is.

 

[jongkookie]

Somebody tell me why I really like this:

Also the way the air vents grille became part of the dashboard is just fncking beautiful:

Auto-GAF am I getting too old?

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

Somebody tell me why I really like this:



Also the way the air vents grille became part of the dashboard is just fncking beautiful:



Auto-GAF am I getting too old?

God damn they've doubled down on the front grille. I do like the interior though, a lot. It feels fresh.

Someone has hit my XF whilst it was parked in a B&Q. Guess it was bound to happen at some point considering how bloody long the car is.

Sorry to hear that, is there much damage? How has the car been any way? My dad has a previous generation XF Sportbrake which has held up well for a year so far.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Lmao. 14 years with these garbage EJ motors. Can't/won't even release a new motor for the STI. They honestly don't give a fuck.

thats not new, its a mid cycle facelift.
new one is out in 2020.



and dope 19s, revised suspension tuning, and all electronic center diff control.

they released this as a mid cycle response to the Focus RS.

their new engine is supposed to be hybrid like most other upcoming sports cars so i'm hoping they finally go for a nice power bump to 400hp after all these years. would be awesome if they moved to 6 cyl but i guess the hybrid setup should be as good.

I plan on picking up the last model year of the STi with the EJ engine, so probably a 2019. I love the current body style (I own a '17 WRX right now) and actually want the old-school EJ257.

From what I understand, the 2020 model year STi is going to be a completely new car, with a new motor. That's great and all, but I would never buy the 1st year of an all-new model.

 

[ascii42]

Also the way the air vents grille became part of the dashboard is just fncking beautiful:

Yeah, I like the look, but I can't help but wonder about function. Can they be angled vertically? I see the tabs to move them, guessing left to right is behind the horizontal slats.

 

[AlphaSnake]

This is without question the WORST grille I've ever seen in my life. I don't care that this is the hybrid model. I don't give two fucking shits. But looking at this is literally pissing me off. I feel like if I saw this on the street, I'd want to punch it. My God...

The new 2018 Camry in general doesn't seem too bad, but I don't understand Toyota's insistence on using that gaudy little design on the rear of their cars?

What is this? Why is their a fake vent below the taillight? Who thought this was cool? Stop it.

The whole car looks like they took the 2006-2010 models and played with the headlights and taillights a little bit in Photoshop by making them a touch more narrow and less rectangular.

 

[SliChillax]

I was just about to make a post to rant about the Camry. I don't understand why designers are going more towards busy and unnecessary lines. It looks like an aftermarket shop has modified most of the Japanese production cars, including that horrible new Lexus LS posted above. None of the lines on the front end work on that LS, the profile is confused and the looks horrible proportionally wise. What the hell is going on in Japan? Even Koreans are starting to make much more attractive and desirable everday cars. I miss the times when a Japanese cars were simplistic. The new LS looks like the new Camry with a modified ghetto grille that you expect to find on Chrysler 300's with 30 inch wheels.

 

[Lucius86]

Sorry to hear that, is there much damage? How has the car been any way? My dad has a previous generation XF Sportbrake which has held up well for a year so far.

New taillight and bumper needed. Going in for repairs end of January. Course no note was left by the culprit so I've had to foot the insurance excess bill.

The car on the whole is great, but not perfect. I still get the occasional InControl Touch Pro software bugs, though I am told another firmware is available so I will be popping it back to Jaguar soon to get this. In addition, I am slightly disappointed by the sound system - especially seeing I upgraded from the base 80W to the Meridian 380W surround setup. There's a really annoying speaker panel vibration in my driver's door at certain low frequencies - ruins the listening experience with certain classical music. I will see if Jaguar can investigate it when it's getting the firmware update I guess.

Got the 2.0 litre diesel 180PS, average 50mpg typically. It handles surprisingly well considering the car's size, and sat nav on the dashboard is brilliant. Not perfect, but it is a lovely car that drives well.

One of my neighbours has an F-Pace, in solid black. 3.0 litre model too. It's beastly.

 

[matmanx1]

Well, my take on the above is that Toyota was plain and boring for so long that they are now over compensating by trying to make their snooze worthy cars at least look exciting, even if they still drive like loaf bread tastes.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

New taillight and bumper needed. Going in for repairs end of January. Course no note was left by the culprit so I've had to foot the insurance excess bill.

The car on the whole is great, but not perfect. I still get the occasional InControl Touch Pro software bugs, though I am told another firmware is available so I will be popping it back to Jaguar soon to get this. In addition, I am slightly disappointed by the sound system - especially seeing I upgraded from the base 80W to the Meridian 380W surround setup. There's a really annoying speaker panel vibration in my driver's door at certain low frequencies - ruins the listening experience with certain classical music. I will see if Jaguar can investigate it when it's getting the firmware update I guess.

Got the 2.0 litre diesel 180PS, average 50mpg typically. It handles surprisingly well considering the car's size, and sat nav on the dashboard is brilliant. Not perfect, but it is a lovely car that drives well.

One of my neighbours has an F-Pace, in solid black. 3.0 litre model too. It's beastly.

Ugh, that's unfortunate. They've even turned your paint in to a drab grey I'm guessing no luck with CCTV/police/nobody cares? It's insane how absent minded people are when it comes to driving cars.

Hopefully the issues are all solvable with a simple flash! Good to hear the successor to the older model is a reasonable replacement.

Ah yes, my dad would gladly chop his XF in for an F-Pace! Shame the dealers aren't negotiating on the price though, they seem to be selling very well.

 

[Lucius86]

Well, my take on the above is that Toyota was plain and boring for so long that they are now over compensating by trying to make their snooze worthy cars at least look exciting, even if they still drive like loaf bread tastes.

Yep - screams try hard.

Ugh, that's unfortunate. They've even turned your paint in to a drab grey I'm guessing no luck with CCTV/police/nobody cares? It's insane how absent minded people are when it comes to driving cars.

Yeah, damn these Winter months ruining the looks of cars! I've given it a good clean since the pic was taken so the damage is in its full glory now for all to see. I've even had a client last week comment on it :-(

I think I posted this earlier in the thread, but this here is how she is meant to look unbattered and clean...

I like the look of the Jaguar I-Pace, and apparently it's is going to be priced in F-Pace territory (made an enquiry purely out of curiosity).

 

[nabe_shogun]

Well, my take on the above is that Toyota was plain and boring for so long that they are now over compensating by trying to make their snooze worthy cars at least look exciting, even if they still drive like loaf bread tastes.

Their plain and boring cars looked so much better though. Lexus styling is the worst. I wouldn't consider one no matter how fun it was to drive. I mean, at least I wouldn't have to look at that front end when I'm in the car though.

 

[Crayon]

This is without question the WORST grille I've ever seen in my life. I don't care that this is the hybrid model. I don't give two fucking shits. But looking at this is literally pissing me off. I feel like if I saw this on the street, I'd want to punch it. My God...

The new 2018 Camry in general doesn't seem too bad, but I don't understand Toyota's insistence on using that gaudy little design on the rear of their cars?

https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/KRRLtt94Pn1eQaWFKu8SBcGvjD0=/1170x0/2017/01/09/8bc721ef-ed7d-4819-a5aa-6a8d897b6c03/2018-toyota-camry-16.jpg[/IMG

What is this? Why is their a fake vent below the taillight? Who thought this was cool? Stop it.

[IMG]https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/img/Wy8_ogX6bYPlzQvwm2goadjn28A=/1170x0/2017/01/09/f8cccd77-e7e7-4eaf-a692-6d9481bcd2db/2018-toyota-camry-6.jpg[/IMG

The whole car looks like they took the 2006-2010 models and played with the headlights and taillights a little bit in Photoshop by making them a touch more narrow and less rectangular.[/QUOTE]

That is bad looking. They facelifted the corolla and did something similar.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I really don't get what lexus/Toyota is doing with thier grills. Every time I see one it's like a giant whale trying to eat me. Is there some engineering reason? I imagine some old Japanese guy who really hates tesla going mad and just making them bigger and bigger.

 

[Stinkles]

Also the way the air vents grille became part of the dashboard is just fncking beautiful:

My A4 has that. Sort of. I don't get it. I don't mind it, but I don't love it.

 

[ascii42]

My A4 has that. Sort of. I don't get it. I don't mind it, but I don't love it.

And the previous generation Malibu did it with the side vents

I think the Lexus has the best implementation of the idea.

 

[jongkookie]

Lexus definitely did it better.

Both the Audi and Malibu look too industrial in their design whereas on the Lexus it looks like flowing water.

God damn they've doubled down on the front grille. I do like the interior though, a lot. It feels fresh.

Unpopular opinion time... I really like the Predator grille on the entire Lexus lineup. Everyone else is trying to look like MB, BMW or some car from Grand Theft Auto, whereas Lexus over here looks like the designers took some LSD and went to town on the grille.

It's very very different/unique, and I daresay, good looking, so I gotta give props to them for putting it on production.

Yeah, I like the look, but I can't help but wonder about function. Can they be angled vertically? I see the tabs to move them, guessing left to right is behind the horizontal slats.

That's a good question... anybody at NAIAS right now? Maybe y'all can take a look for us? Lol.

Camry Hate

I think the Camry's grille was ripped off from the Predator Lexus grille and added something in the middle so it'll be different from the Lexus grille. But yeah it's garbage.

Here's an interesting quote from Toyota:

The biggest challenge for the Camry engineering team was to figure out how to convey the driving dynamics of a soul-stirring sedan. Driving dynamics were always at the forefront of the engineering philosophy for the new Camry. They wanted a new Camry in which the driver will be highly impressed with the handling capability and composure of the new design. So much so, that drivers will notice the dramatic improvements within the first few seconds of driving.

Yes, Toyota is really trying to make the Camry a sports sedan... I mean look at this shit, quad tailpipes bruh!

 

[rokkerkory]

This is without question the WORST grille I've ever seen in my life. I don't care that this is the hybrid model. I don't give two fucking shits. But looking at this is literally pissing me off. I feel like if I saw this on the street, I'd want to punch it. My God...

The new 2018 Camry in general doesn't seem too bad, but I don't understand Toyota's insistence on using that gaudy little design on the rear of their cars?

What is this? Why is their a fake vent below the taillight? Who thought this was cool? Stop it.

The whole car looks like they took the 2006-2010 models and played with the headlights and taillights a little bit in Photoshop by making them a touch more narrow and less rectangular.

rice rice baby!

blahz...

 

[mkenyon]

Bought a new recaro seat

Spoiler

for my kid.

Also, I'm a new daddy with a girl!

 

[AlphaSnake]

New taillight and bumper needed. Going in for repairs end of January. Course no note was left by the culprit so I've had to foot the insurance excess bill.

The car on the whole is great, but not perfect. I still get the occasional InControl Touch Pro software bugs, though I am told another firmware is available so I will be popping it back to Jaguar soon to get this. In addition, I am slightly disappointed by the sound system - especially seeing I upgraded from the base 80W to the Meridian 380W surround setup. There's a really annoying speaker panel vibration in my driver's door at certain low frequencies - ruins the listening experience with certain classical music. I will see if Jaguar can investigate it when it's getting the firmware update I guess.

Got the 2.0 litre diesel 180PS, average 50mpg typically. It handles surprisingly well considering the car's size, and sat nav on the dashboard is brilliant. Not perfect, but it is a lovely car that drives well.

One of my neighbours has an F-Pace, in solid black. 3.0 litre model too. It's beastly.

Someone has hit my XF whilst it was parked in a B&Q. Guess it was bound to happen at some point considering how bloody long the car is.

First off: that's aggravating shit. I'm very sorry to hear and see it, mate.

My XF also had some buzzing in the passenger side speaker (which for you would be driver's side since I'm in the US). They took apart the door card and insulated it. It's fixable. Take the car for a test drive with a tech though.

The F-Pace is a really nice car, but its interior material (specifically: the dashboard) is a bit of a step down from our XFs, which are soft to the touch and pleasant to look at. The F-Pace has a huge chunk of hard plastic all around the steering wheel, unlike our XF.

Ugh, that's unfortunate. They've even turned your paint in to a drab grey I'm guessing no luck with CCTV/police/nobody cares? It's insane how absent minded people are when it comes to driving cars.

Hopefully the issues are all solvable with a simple flash! Good to hear the successor to the older model is a reasonable replacement.

Ah yes, my dad would gladly chop his XF in for an F-Pace! Shame the dealers aren't negotiating on the price though, they seem to be selling very well.

Yeah, no chance. Jaguar's had a record year with massive sales increases over 2015, and the F-Pace led the way. Even the lease rates aren't very good, because people are buying them/financing them in droves. Numbers will only pick up once lease deals come in.

Bought a new recaro seat

Spoiler

for my kid.

Also, I'm a new daddy with a girl!

CONGRATS!!

 

[boltz]

My quick thoughts on some of the new car reveals at NAIAS:

1. Camry - I like the exterior a lot. The last few generations of it have looked like they were half-heartedly designed and couldn't decide on a design direction to take. It looks like they went all in this time on a sporty look and I like the results (except for the terrible hybrid giant catfish-mouth grill that Alpha pointed out).

2. LS500 - I like this too. In general I am ok with the Lexus spindle grill, but I think it's implementation in the LS500 is the best in their lineup. The rest of the exterior is very sleek and handsome. I can't wait to see where else Lexus/Toyota will drop that twin turbo V6.

3. Kia Stinger - I'm glad to see another RWD sport sedan on the market, but I can't see it selling very well. I'm guessing that it will be selling for $40k+, and at that price range, enthusiasts have a lot of other proven choices and folks looking for some luxury will thumb their noses at the Kia badge and some of the more garish design bits. It's going to go the way of the SS and G8.

4. Honda Odyssey - I know no one here cares about minivans, but the second row seats that slide side to side are pretty sweet.

 

[Stinkles]

The F-Pace is a really nice car, but its interior material (specifically: the dashboard) is a bit of a step down from our XFs, which are soft to the touch and pleasant to look at. The F-Pace has a huge chunk of hard plastic all around the steering wheel, unlike our XF.

This is one of those things that rationally shouldn't matter, but goddamn does it matter. I touch the surfaces of my car a lot. Sometimes like a lame car journo, but mostly tapping a tattoo as I wait for the lights to change, or frustrated thumping the dash because everyone is a goddamned asshole, or feeling around for stuff and so on..

 

[Pinewood]

3. Kia Stinger - I'm glad to see another RWD sport sedan on the market, but I can't see it selling very well. I'm guessing that it will be selling for $40k+, and at that price range, enthusiasts have a lot of other proven choices and folks looking for some luxury will thumb their noses at the Kia badge and some of the more garish design bits. It's going to go the way of the SS and G8.
.

40k+ seems a bit excessive for a Kialfaudi if you can get the Giulia Veloce for 45k that has similar performance. Id go under 30k for base model, cant really get cheaper new RWD (at least in Europe).

Going back to driving manual, my Giulettas Start&Stop works via the clutch. Depress and the engine stops, press the clutch down and it starts, so it would make no sense at all to hold it while stopped.

I actually like the

Spoiler

hybrid catfish

Camry.

 

[Killer Queen]

So, what is the consensus on the 2017 Camaro?

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

I think I posted this earlier in the thread, but this here is how she is meant to look unbattered and clean...

You picked a beautiful colour!

 

[SliChillax]

So, what is the consensus on the 2017 Camaro?

Everyone who has driven it loves it. I've heard only great things about it and I am seriously considering to buy it once the SS is fitted with the 10 speed auto.

In other news, the facelifted F-Type is nice but they made the R uglier in my opinion. The standart front bumper (left) is better looking.

 

[whatsinaname]

How's the depreciation been on the F-Types? Like old Jaguar or better?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Everyone who has driven it loves it. I've heard only great things about it and I am seriously considering to buy it once the SS is fitted with the 10 speed auto.

That sounds awful. I was driving a BMW 328i with an eight speed along US-1 over the holidays and frankly I didn't enjoy it one bit. The ratios were too close and it always felt like I was in the wrong gear, so I ended up sticking it in 3rd and not touching it unless I absolutely had to.

With a ten speed transmission? Ugh. Unless four of those gears are just deeper and deeper overdrives I don't even get the point.

Edit: After looking at the ratios online, 4-6 in the manual are the same as 7-10 in the automatic (with 9/10 having an almost imperceptible difference, .69 and .64), and 1-3 are broken up over gears 1-6. Six automatic gears to replace three manual gears? You'll maxing out 3rd gear at 60-70mph! Are we so obsessed with speed over driving pleasure that this is actually attractive to people?

 

[matmanx1]

That sounds awful. I was driving a BMW 328i with an eight speed along US-1 over the holidays and frankly I didn't enjoy it one bit. The ratios were too close and it always felt like I was in the wrong gear, so I ended up sticking it in 3rd and not touching it unless I absolutely had to.

With a ten speed transmission? Ugh. Unless four of those gears are just deeper and deeper overdrives I don't even get the point.

It's great for gas mileage, mainly. My dad's gotten 40mpg's on long highway trips with his 328i and the 8 speed ZF.