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[MikeyB]

God fanboys are out in force again. Every corp will evaluate a project and I'm guessing after 4 years and millions spent and Platinum games not being able to hit the next milestone ...

(emphasis added)

Your claim that Platinum is incompetent is based on at least two points you haven't substantiated:
-milestones clearly defined in contract
-deliverables were clearly defined in contract

However, the available sources note that the second was not the case.

But clearly everyone else is the fanboy when you're willing to assume the answers to the central questions.

 

[Jumeira]

That may be true of the current personel at Rare. However the People who were the heart and soul of Pre Microsoft Rare had to go the Indy Kickstarter route in order to make the games they wanted to make.

That's hardly a well managed success story.

The heart and soul? Most of those devs are post Nintendo apart from a select few, some that came on board was from Kinnect Sports, but I will say that your right about thier ambition for a traditional platformer. Gregg Mayles is still at Rare and he's old school as Rare can get, father of Banjo and Viva, he didn't want to do another Banjo. Since Don left they've abandoned Kinnect all together and they seem to be much happier because of it.

(emphasis added)

Your claim that Platinum is incompetent is based on at least two points you haven't substantiated:
-milestones clearly defined in contract
-deliverables were clearly defined in contract

However, the available sources note that the second was not the case.

But clearly everyone else is the fanboy when you're willing to assume the answers to the central questions.

Kamiya wasn't working on the project, that isn't no one's fault but the product would suffer and with no certainty of his return it doesn't seem unreasonable to question if the project should continue. Huge part of what won MS over initally (based on Phil Harrison's comments) was confidence in Kamiya genius I'd imagine.

 

[EvB]

The heart and soul? Most of those devs are post Nintendo apart from a select few, some that came on board was from Kinnect Sports, but I will say that your right about thier ambition for a traditional platformer. Gregg Mayles is still at Rare and he's old school as Rare can get, father of Banjo and Viva, he didn't want to do another Banjo. Since Don left they've abandoned Kinnect all together and they seem to be much happier because of it.

The Kinect work was all down to Rare's management making the decision to do it, not because MS forced them at gun point.

 

[nynt9]

The Kinect work was all down to Rare's management making the decision to do it, not because MS forced them at gun point.

Actually...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707691

 

[jelly]

I wonder if E3 conference will be padded with token IP CGI gestures to make it look like they've got stuff in the pipeline.

2017 looking like this which isn't too bad to be honest but Sea of Thieves is a mystery to me beyond the tiny slice they've showed and probably hiding micro-transactions is my guess. Crackdown of some form, fingers crossed on that one. Two smaller scale games and Forza 7. It's varied at least.

Forza 7
Halo Wars 2
State of Decay 2
Sea of Thieves
Crackdown 3
Cuphead

E3 will have some of those

Halo 6 '2018'
Halo MCC Redux with H3A if pigs fly.
tumbleweed
Killer Instinct II?
Please be excited, time exclusive DLC like Assassins Creed probably.
Phantom Dust Remaster
Voodoo Vince Remaster

Yeah...

 

[EvB]

Actually...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707691

I'll post it again

Microsoft is commonly blamed for Rare's transformation into a so-called "casual" studio, but Price feels this is a step too far. "Phil Spencer taking the mantle of Xbox is one of the best things that could have happened for Rare," he comments. "Because he's always said to people at Rare [as general manager of Microsoft Studios], 'Do what you want to do and we'll back you,' and he's always stayed true to his word in that regard. It was people in Rare's management at the time who said: 'Well, Kinect is a great opportunity for the studio - go all in on it.' So when executives at Microsoft see that the management team are passionate about doing that, they back them. Microsoft to their credit did that, and perhaps the story online isn't quite reflective of the truth.

 

[jayu26]

I wonder if E3 conference will be padded with token IP CGI gestures to make it look like they've got stuff in the pipeline.

2017 looking like this which isn't too bad to be honest but Sea of Thieves is a mystery to me beyond the tiny slice they've showed and probably hiding micro-transactions is my guess. Crackdown of some form, fingers crossed on that one. Two smaller scale games and Forza 7. It's varied at least.

Forza 7
Halo Wars 2
State of Decay 2
Sea of Thieves
Crackdown 3
Cuphead

E3 will have some of those

Halo 6 '2018'
Halo MCC Redux with H3A if pigs fly.
tumbleweed
Killer Instinct II?
Please be excited, time exclusive DLC like Assassins Creed probably.

Actually, I am expecting a lot of VR. They will probably have Fallout VR, might even be exclusive, for what that counts.

 

[Black Mantis]

If Minecraft 2 happens it will not be on PS4 and Switch.

Of course not, we're talking about Minecraft that's out now.

 

[theindieboy]

After reading this really worried for Sumo Digital they made some great games and well the silence on Crackdown is as bad as it was on scalebound, hope it does not go they same way always sad to see games cancelled (even if like Scalebound was not really for me) expecially when it puts jobs or studios at risk or worse.

To defend Microsoft for a bit, I think when you have major leadership changes at a company projects change focus or get cancelled because what one person is loves and is really intrested in the next person either is not intrested or wants to put there own stamp on it.

I have seen this we finished a years developement on an app and were ready to realese with just a few minor things need to be done but CEO who really wanted this left and the app was never released dispite a lot of investment of money & huge amount of time, pretty much just needed final testing phase and publishing to app store. The new CEO was not intrested, which was fair as mainly a vanity project for former CEO. Other projects dramatically changed direction losing a lot of work, to fit the new vision. For intrest work for an insurance company as a developer know its not games but happens everywhere.

I think the new leadership show they know what they are doing and have rited the ship, however this does mean that some of the older stuff might not fit there vision. However IMO just going after the online shooter market that 360 thrived on is stupid when you are so far behind in unit sales (globally) Sony is pretty much always going to have the more populated online for multi platform games. Need single player exclusives & variety of title aswell to tempt ps4 owners over or late upgraders, the scorpino is there last gambit hope it goes well or fear for Xbox future in Microsoft worried will become a sub division trying to push windows pcs, and not a viable competion.

Anyway those are my thoughts, I am a ps4 owner who at the moment has no intrest in an xbox one but really want to play Sunset overdrive with a few other big none shooter exclusives (that i like) could be tempted to buy a secondary console but at the moment that's likely to be the switch (have a long commute). But have tried to be fair and unbiased, certainly some of the rumors sound shitty but without knowing the whole story steared clear.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Yep. Also I doubt third parties will even want to support the Scorpio with how Microsoft tends to handle third party relations. Plus with the pro already out Microsoft will have to go above and beyond for people to support it or take advantage.

Cant be serious...Probably is.

 

[Net]

We had the smoking gun weeks ago and only Spanish speakers knew it:

Eurogamer Spain a few weeks ago:


https://twitter.com/SejopO/status/818581880836603905


"Phil Spencer has a desire to cancel Scalebound that you can not even imagine..."

 

[InquisitorAles]

We had the smoking gun weeks ago and only Spanish speakers knew it:

What is your point? You trying to say that Phill Spencer so desired to close every third party game that he could without reason or what?

 

[I-hate-u]

I wonder if E3 conference will be padded with token IP CGI gestures to make it look like they've got stuff in the pipeline.

2017 looking like this which isn't too bad to be honest but Sea of Thieves is a mystery to me beyond the tiny slice they've showed and probably hiding micro-transactions is my guess. Crackdown of some form, fingers crossed on that one. Two smaller scale games and Forza 7.
.

Crazy man, Forza caught up to GT fast.

 

[Duxxy3]

On the other hand, we've also seen a lot of third party studios do just fine by Microsoft. Some things work out, and some things don't.

Scalebound and Phantom Dust didn't work out. That sucks. Killer Instinct and Forza Horizon 2/3 worked out great. That's great.

Sorry, I don't buy into the idea that Microsoft are studio killers. No more than any other publisher.

 

[LordRaptor]

After reading this really worried for Sumo Digital they made some great games and well the silence on Crackdown is as bad as it was on scalebound

Sumo have nothing to with Crackdown...?

 

[Maxrunner]

One day Rare will be free from evil Ms....right?

 

[flkraven]

Hasn't this game been in development for 4+ years? How high must the milestones have been for them to be ridiculous? Did they ask them to cure cancer?

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Sumo have nothing to with Crackdown...?

Sumo are co developing the title with Reagent Games and Cloudgine.

 

[Milly Osworth]

One day Rare will be free from evil Ms....right?

Closed you mean?

 

[Bits N Pieces]

We had the smoking gun weeks ago and only Spanish speakers knew it:

For us non Spanish speakers, what does it say?

 

[LordRaptor]

Hasn't this game been in development for 4+ years? How high must the milestones have been for them to be ridiculous? Did they ask them to cure cancer?

If they're shuffling through initiatives that a studio has t pivot around it would make sense.
Like - "Make it a Software As A Service title, built around consumable MTX"
next year "SaaS? No, we're not doing that now, we want it to be Azure oriented, you really need to push Cloud Services"
next year "Cloud? No, we're pushing DirectX 12. We really want a graphical showcase to show off the power of DirectX12"
next year "DX12? Pfft, who cares, listen, we really want you to focus on Play Anywhere. Get that W10 version ready to launch alongside that X1 version"

e:

Sumo are co developing the title with Reagent Games and Cloudgine.

I didn't know they'd been contracted for that, but would presume they're basically freelancing on it rather than being too heavily invested.

 

[mejin]

Closed you mean?

 

[Calm Mind]

The Perfect Shitstorm

 

[jelly]

One day Rare will be free from evil Ms....right?

I would fear they wouldn't even get a buyer. Can't be a cheap place to run. Maybe the Rare IP but I think that studio would be canned. I wonder how much they are worth now considering Microsoft bought them for 375 million.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Only thing we know for sure in PG case is that they failed to deliver what they should on time and took important people off the project for a while.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
How does that make MS the sole evil?


Nobody even seemed to care about the game until it got cancelled when everyone and their mother came out calling MS evil, dead and other things. There is more to he story than giant evil corporation strikes again attitude.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Can anyone clarify what shady shit MS did to Platinum? Those tweets don't say anything about how bad the situation is so you can't make an informed judgement about the situation at all.

 

[Sleight of Jam]

Nobody even seemed to care about the game until it got cancelled when everyone and their mother came out calling MS evil, dead and other things. There is more to he story than giant evil corporation strikes again attitude.

Ah yes, i forgot nobody cared for this game, it's good that it got cancelled then right? I mean, if nobody cared about it, then who cares.

Just because there wasn't much attention on GAF doesn't mean nobody cared. There's a world outside the internet you know? Coupled with the fact there hadn't been much on trailers since last year... which this now explains the latter.

 

[nynt9]

Only thing we know for sure in PG case is that they failed to deliver what they should on time and took important people off the project for a while.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
How does that make MS the sole evil?


Nobody even seemed to care about the game until it got cancelled when everyone and their mother came out calling MS evil, dead and other things. There is more to he story than giant evil corporation strikes again attitude.

If it was just one studio, maybe. But it seems like this might be a pattern.

Many people here cared about scalebound. Gaf loves platinum and kamiya. It was the most interesting looking Xbone title and the reason I bought mine.

 

[funkystudent]

MS seems very controlling from both the 1th and 2nd party perspective. How many times over the years has we heard those stories? Form at least as far back as when they owned Bungie? MS wants what it wants and that can be good or bad for a dev.

They also don't seem to have the patents for games that don't neatly snap into a release cycle and can be monetised and sequelised. They are a company that very much makes its decisions using a excel spreadsheet


Given Platinums reputation of getting stuff done quick and MS's nature I think them originally teaming up made sense. But I guess the project ballooned and suddenly Platinum where in uncharted territory and MS being MS and not very patent put the foot down and things went south fast.

I really hope we get the full story.

 

[Net]

For us non Spanish speakers, what does it say?

Read the red text.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Read the red text.

Case closed then, lol.

 

[EvB]

MS seems very controlling from both the 1th and 2nd party perspective. How many times over the years has we heard those stories? Form at least as far back as when they owned Bungie? MS wants what it wants and that can be good or bad for a dev.

Isn't that just life in general?

 

[LordRaptor]

Only thing we know for sure in PG case is that they failed to deliver what they should on time and took important people off the project for a while.


Correct me if I'm wrong.
How does that make MS the sole evil?

Platinum have a very strong record in being able to get products to market, to the extent that they have been hired as troubleshooters previously on troubled projects by other publishers.

That's what rings alarm bells.

Lionhead missing deadlines and not being able to deliver features that were originally promised? Sure, anyone can believe that. It's Lionhead.
Same with Rare. Rare hugely over budget and missing all sorts of super important deadlines? Again - sure, I'd buy that. It's Rare.
Same with David Jones Crackdown team; the guy responsible for APB is having trouble making a multiplayer GTA city sandbox game on time and on budget? Waters wet, Skys blue.

Platinum taking their sweet time on a project, while simultaneously delivering for other publishers? Hmmm.

 

[ethomaz]

Never sell your soul to MS.

I guess 3rd are starting to see that.

Bungie left because this type of mismanagement and profited with huge Destiny success (even bigger than Halo).

 

[Tecnniqe]

Ah yes, i forgot nobody cared for this game, it's good that it got cancelled then right? I mean, if nobody cared about it, then who cares.

Just because there wasn't much attention on GAF doesn't mean nobody cared. There's a world outside the internet you know? Coupled with the fact there hadn't been much on trailers since last year... which this now explains the latter.

Sure is EXACTLY what I meant.

If it was just one studio, maybe. But it seems like this might be a pattern.

Many people here cared about scalebound. Gaf loves platinum and kamiya. It was the most interesting looking Xbone title and the reason I bought mine.

Oh yeah I found it interesting as well, but compared to how it was before the cancellation and after a majority of people seem to have jumped on a bandwagon because it's MS.

No doubt a lot cared, but I find it hard to believe to the level we saw during last night.

As for patterns, maybe but not necessarily. The wording so far don't put MS as sole responsible and it is better for them to cancel than waste money down a black hole considering deadlines kept getting pushed and members removed for long periods on the project.

I hope we get a full scoop on both sides to what actually happened since E3 and now.

Platinum have a very strong record in being able to get products to market, to the extent that they have been hired as troubleshooters previously on troubled projects by other publishers.

That's what rings alarm bells.

Lionhead missing deadlines and not being able to deliver features that were originally promised? Sure, anyone can believe that. It's Lionhead.
Same with Rare. Rare hugely over budget and missing all sorts of super important deadlines? Again - sure, I'd buy that. It's Rare.
Same with David Jones Crackdown team; the guy responsible for APB is having trouble making a multiplayer GTA city sandbox game on time and on budget? Waters wet, Skys blue.

Platinum taking their sweet time on a project, while simultaneously delivering for other publishers? Hmmm.

Platinum sure have a good record but it does seem like they couldn't take it with this huge project this time around. I don't know.

As for Crackdown, that was Real Time Worlds right? Didn't they shut down due to financial reasons after APB?

That mostly came down to being able to purchase ingame sub for cash which was easily farmed so they made like 0 money + no anti cheat so it was a nightmare.

Played that game for 1500+ hours without paying a dime because they fucked the economic systems which allowed for it.

 

[Duxxy3]

If it was just one studio, maybe. But it seems like this might be a pattern.

Many people here cared about scalebound. Gaf loves platinum and kamiya. It was the most interesting looking Xbone title and the reason I bought mine.

And Platinum has a recent history of making stinker games. Korra, Turtles and Star Fox were all disappointments. Scalebound looked like hot garbage the last time it was shown.

If Microsoft were publishing those titles, all three probably would have been cancelled, rather than released.

 

[blakep267]

I disagree with the premise. The RPG game that was cancelled was cancelled early on. That's a standard thing. It just sucks that so much was at stake for the company

Phantom dust both sides were at fault. You don't take on more than you can handle

Platinum, we have no idea really. Only that it's been years and the game wasn't shaping up.

And for all of those there are many more "sucesses" ( not from a sales perspective but games being released smoothly)

 

[OldRoutes]

Never sell your soul to MS.

I guess 3rd are starting to see that.

Bungie left because this type of mismanagement and profited with huge Destiny success (even bigger than Halo).

Bungie was let go ; they were owned by Microsoft.

 

[funkystudent]

Isn't that just life in general?

Yeah.

And TBH I think most publishers are the same. Very few will let a project go years past its due date without 1: Just forcing it out the door in whatever half finished state its in or 2: Canning it.


No publisher is perfect. They all have blood on their hands from pulling some bullshit

 

[LordRaptor]

And Platinum has a recent history of making stinker games. Korra, Turtles and Star Fox were all disappointments.

Korra and Turtles were almost certainly made on the same budget and timeframe as the most recent Tony Hawks game was. Are those still negative indicators of quality?

SF0 is controversial, but the complaints are mostly focussed around its control scheme, which was Miyamoto driven and the entire reason the game was made in the first place. Again, given that that control scheme is the sole reason that game was ever made, and the complaints are that people wanted that game just without the control scheme, is that a negative indicator of quality?

 

[Duxxy3]

Korra and Turtles were almost certainly made on the same budget and timeframe as the most recent Tony Hawks game was. Are those still negative indicators of quality?

SF0 is controversial, but the complaints are mostly focussed around its control scheme, which was Miyamoto driven and the entire reason the game was made in the first place. Again, given that that control scheme is the sole reason that game was ever made, and the complaints are that people wanted that game just without the control scheme, is that a negative indicator of quality?

They were all made under the Platinum name. For better or for worse. The end result is on Platinum.

 

[nynt9]

They were all made under the Platinum name. For better or for worse. The end result is on Platinum.

I think this is a very simplistic view of the nature of project management and publisher-developer relationships.

 

[AusRoachman]

Really sucks to see all these cancelled games , especially when so far along , so much money invested just to be wiped away .

Scalebound never looked interesting to me but at least it was something new from Microsoft , I hope it doesn't just mean we get even more halo / forza / gears to fill the gap.

I can't think of a single first party game I want from them this year , though Sony isn't much better for me personally this year either , but at least they have a huge variety of interesting games covering a huge range of ages / styles .

I am honestly hoping Nintendo knock it out the park with the switch , I am starting to tire of all these numbered sequels from ms / sony.

 

[AusRoachman]

Never sell your soul to MS.

I guess 3rd are starting to see that.

Bungie left because this type of mismanagement and profited with huge Destiny success (even bigger than Halo).

I find it funny bungie wanted out of making halo , only to lock themselves in to a 10 year game that basically looks and plays like halo .

 

[JayWood2010]

If you sign a contract, then you must meet deadlines. That is business. Not buying the whole Microsoft is evil, and developers are innocent.

I was looking forward to Scalebound, but Microsoft clearly believed it was a 2016 title as they even had it pegged for 2016 holiday if I remember right. It costs money to keep things in developement, and Im sure Microsoft realized Scalebound wasnt going to sell millions and millions.

Its an unforunate situation, but its also business. Meet deadlines. 4+ years for a game that likely wont even sell a million copies is a little much.

For me personally I would have liked to see them stick with it considering it was probably 3/4 of the way done, but I also dont know the state of the game. Again, meet deadlines.

 

[InsaneTiger]

RDR 2 with the best visuals will sell Scorpio. Picture the sun setting in HDR and a nice folk song playing....

SOLD.

Because that's all there is to gaming anymore. Resolution Wars. RDR2 will looks on 4K and HDR no matter the console. It might sell Scopio but the marketing deal favors Sony. Scopio needs games that will really define the hardware and put emphasis on something that isn't resolution or IQ related. We want new and incredible experiences, not just the same FPS in 4K. Woo.

Anyway, MS has definitely stumbled with many of its exclusives routinely falling on Halo or Gears to save the day. This doesn't help them with the Japanese market neither, so this next year will be interesting for MS.

 

[kinoki]

I find it funny bungie wanted out of making halo , only to lock themselves in to a 10 year game that basically looks and plays like halo .

Maybe it's more about doing what you want to do, instead of something that someone forces you to do. Even if it's similar.

 

[Kill3r7]

I find it funny bungie wanted out of making halo , only to lock themselves in to a 10 year game that basically looks and plays like halo .

They make more money out of the Destiny deal. At the end of the day in 10 years time they are free to do something else. In other words by the middle of next gen they will be able to work on something else.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

They were all made under the Platinum name. For better or for worse. The end result is on Platinum.

Any company can turn out a shit product if they are given extremely limited resources.

They make more money out of the Destiny deal. At the end of the day in 10 years time they are free to do something else. In other words by the middle of next gen they will be able to work on something else.

I expect that contract to be extended if Destiny 2 is a big hit.

 

[LordRaptor]

It costs money to keep things in developement, and Im sure Microsoft realized Scalebound wasnt going to sell millions and millions.

I'm a huge P* fan, but them making original IP games that sell millions and millions isn't a thing they have a track record of.

I mean, if thats what MS wanted, they should have hired them to make a more action focussed Fable game.
I'd enjoy a Fable with Platinum combat. Wouldn't you?