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Betsy DeVos doesn't know the difference between growth and proficiency

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Socivol

Member
It isn't "easy" but it isn't hard either. The best classes I have had are heterogeneous mixes of students across ability levels. You design activities, projects, labs, etc. and team students of various ability levels and students will guide each other. I have taught at both traditional "high level/low level" classes and inclusion settings. I had better results by far in the inclusion school. Students didn't have preconceived notions already if they were dumb or smart, they felt like equals, and weren't afraid to get involved because they were with a "smart" kid.

I personally hate tracking because then the "smart" kids tend to stop pushing themselves and the "dumb" group tends to give up and resign them self to being in the lower track. Then you get teachers that develop self fulfilling prophecies about their lower tracked classes and don't give them the opportunities to grow that they should.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs sets this up perfectly. Makes for really unique, and fun classes. And not only are my test scores higher (which are garbage numbers anyway) but I can tell my students are learning actual real skills that will benefit them regardless of career post high school.

That is the quick version. If you want to know more just ask! I know why you feel that way, at quick glance it may def. appear that separating and focusing on different levels on their own is best, but the data shows otherwise.

I'm with you! My "honors" students tended to be more arrogant and less motivated then my mixed class. I loved those kids I taught them for two subjects and they made ridiculous gains. I taught 8th grade and they went to high school so confident and sure of themselves and now those "low" kids are honors students. I still hang out with some of them everytime I go back in town. My higher kids grew a lot too, but the class just wasn't as fun....plus I had 35 kids in that class :(
 
This was my situation my first year of teaching and it was hell. One of the things my district was really big on was student collaboration....when they are all low they can't really help each other or collaborate independently. Having students of a variety of levels also would help motivate the others. If they would see someone completing something challenging they would be more likely to try to accomplish the same goal. I hated teaching students on the same level. One year I had all of the honor students and enjoyed my class with missed proficiency levels much more.

I think more likely it would help the underperformers, while boring the shit out of the gifted students.
 

Foffy

Banned
Lmao

God this would be funnier if a large chunk of the country didn't think like you

Who needs experts anyway

They want people who "tell it like it is" and are just like us.

Yeah, outside of the plutocracy, oligarchy, and even kleptocracy afoot, they are just like a lot of people: know-it-all-know-nothings, especially when it comes to matters they preach hard on.

I'm not saying this is true for the user you quote -- I can only hope they have no huge views on education if they are unfamiliar with these topics... -- but for a lot of people, especially Trumps "department of deplorables", that's totally the case.

Where would one even begin highlighting the sheer ignorance spilling from these picks? It's almost as if they were chosen via a random generator, and Trump just went with the first results.
 
Because they don't get the maximum growth that way.

Maybe Americans are different but, in Australia, mixed capability classrooms are beneficial for students with weaker skills since more proficient students can mentor lower skilled students. You just have to design activities that all students can participate in.

Anecdotally and from experience in tutoring secondary school subjects during university, this is the single best way to remember and understand material past a mere ROTE surface level.

I don't disagree that it's the best for the children with the weaker skills. But then you can't really tout it as being best for everyone. What's best for the gifted kids would be to not have to "waste time" (as they might see it) doing boring stuff that doesn't help them.
 

Foffy

Banned
How do you spend most of your adult life pushing education reform and not know this? Serious question. I am confused.

Total Republicanism at work.

Healthcare reform? Got no plans.

It goes entirely down the line. All they have, and Trump is the symbolism of it, is rhetoric. They have jack fucking shit as a polcy.

It bewilders me people actually think otherwise. Should IQ become a question here? ;)
 

Socivol

Member
I don't disagree that it's the best for the children with the weaker skills. But then you can't really tout it as being best for everyone. What's best for the gifted kids would be to not have to "waste time" (as they might see it) doing boring stuff that doesn't help them.

It actually is typically best for everyone if you're doing it correctly. You can challenge higher level students and have gains for lower level students if you differentiate your assignments. It's honestly really not that hard to do if you know what you're doing.
 
I think that would only happen if you/re not very good at differentiation. All of my students had growth from the highest to the lowest.

I'm not saying there would be 0 growth. I just think the growth would be higher if the class was tailored just for them. On an individual level, how could it not be? If the weaker students are not directly contributing to the growth of the stronger students, then they are at best neutral, and at worse hampering the progress of the stronger students.

So yes, everyone will improve. No dispute. But imagine you take the sum of growth of all students in the classroom. I'm not convinced that doing a purely mi mixed group would yield a higher sum than doing purely separate groups.

On the other hand, you could even mix it up, like switch classrooms around mid-day. Like first half of the day is all mixed, second half of the day some kids go to the gifted classes, others go to the remedial classes.

You already see this kind of thing in high school. AP courses. What if there were no AP courses, but you just tried to teach the material while all the weaker kids were in the same class? It wouldn't make much sense right?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
As a public school teacher... I've been terrified ever since she was named to the position.

I'm a private school teacher, and I've been terrified ever since she was named to the position. ANYBODY should be.
 
Wow.

@caitlinzemma
DeVos "may have confused" the fact that IDEA is federal law

Hassan just took her to task for not knowing (Hassan has a disabled child and that's why she got into politics in the first place)
 
Even more troubling is her inability to bullshit a response off the cuff. I've never heard those words used in reference to education policy and I can guess what they mean based off what they mean.

The smartest people!
 

Kenclops

Banned
I worked for a month in a charter school. I was supposed to teach, but was switched before even our first meeting to become a registrar. Didn't know what I was doing and which classes to sign kids up for. They said it was ok, that 90% will fail anyway. And then they end back up in public education, even further behind. Resigned and refused to be a part of this sham.
 

deadlast

Member
Assuming she gets through, what irreversible harm could she do to the education system in the next 4 years?

Help republicans steal money from public education institutes and give it to faith based schools. Then you have about a quarter of a generation that refuses to believe in basic science, deny facts, poorer parts of the country stay poorer because education sucks.

Or maybe nothing will change, because government work is too hard and requires lots of knowledge about laws and stuff.
 

Linkura

Member
I worked for a month in a charter school. I was supposed to teach, but was switched before even our first meeting to become a registrar. Didn't know what I was doing and which classes to sign kids up for. They said it was ok, that 90% will fail anyway. And then they end back up in public education, even further behind. Resigned and refused to be a part of this sham.

Sorry you worked for a shitty charter school. Not all are like that.

Betsy DeVos has that Sarah Palin blank look on her face. Kind of sounds like her too. Actively pissing me off watching clips of the hearing.
 

LProtag

Member
I worked for a month in a charter school. I was supposed to teach, but was switched before even our first meeting to become a registrar. Didn't know what I was doing and which classes to sign kids up for. They said it was ok, that 90% will fail anyway. And then they end back up in public education, even further behind. Resigned and refused to be a part of this sham.

I mean, overall, charter schools are like public schools. Some are bad, some are good, and some are just average. The problem is that they divert money away from fixing public schools.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
This is so bad. On the other hand, I can confidently say, for the first time ever, that I am now more qualified to lead the USDE than the future Secretary of Education. And it doesn't feel good, man.
 

Opto

Banned
Assuming she gets through, what irreversible harm could she do to the education system in the next 4 years?

propelling childhood education to be under the influence of corporate interests. setting national standards for education (which is fucking worrying since she knows nothing of education), which doubt under her leadership would increase our rankings in the world. Also, enforcing education laws. She literally doesn't support public education
 
I went to an amazing charter school and wouldn't be where I am if i had gone into the horrid public education in my town so I want to believe in a better way, but ultimately the school couldn't let everyone in and we drained a lot of public resources while the public education continued to get worse.
 
Doesn't matter. She'll easily be confirmed.

Betsy Devos entire mission is to put mandatory christian prayer in school, teach creationism and intelligent design, discriminate against LGBT students, and bust teachers unions.

Which are the only things the GOP cares about when it comes to education, particularly the last part. The entire reason for the existence of Charters is to bust unions.
 

Omadahl

Banned
As a public school teacher I'm going to just put this out there. If this woman gets what she wants, my job is gone, my students won't receive a fair education and this country's future is toast.
 

thefro

Member
It's weird. Apparently there's data that says she's actually really good at her job?

Would someone who knows more than me explain the potential discrepancy?

You get the parents of kids who give a shit in the charter schools, while the kids who have parents who don't care and the disabled kids who the charter school doesn't have to take are left in the public school system.

It's not surprising that a few charter schools are going to do well in that context. Still a lot of them are failing if you look at that post (which isn't exactly written by an unbiased author).
 

platakul

Banned
If there was actually a non-zero risk of failing a grade, kids would try their damndest to pass. I knew a lot of kids who got held back when i was a kid. But I can assure you one thing, it *never* happened more than once, because they learned their lesson.
This is not reality. Kids fall behind for any number of reasons, and most are outside the classroom. It is rare that its that a kid is lazy especially when you're talking 3rd grade

However 3rd grade is when undiagnosed disabilities become pronounced and other factors really effect kids like say a parents divorce.
 
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