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[wildfire]

It's a two edged sword.. public sector people are too comfortable in their jobs and slow. Private everyone is faced paced and dont care about each other. Really need to find that equal medium. Which is super rare.

Unions don't only exist in the public sector. *waves hand*

As for if there are differences in speed after working across multiple environments private and public I would say it's all about what goals exist for the team. Deadlines will be met by hardworking people in private and public sector. Working in a comfortable chummy environment is totally dependent on very sociable and or generous people being hired, it has nothing to do with the job sector.

 

[RustyNails]

Well this is definitely true, I review resumes occasionally and multiple jobs under a year are a huge red flag that would likely cause me to trash the resume.

I job hopped, but for good reasons. But my hopping was between 1 to 2 years. Call it whatever the fuck you want, but people are not stupid. They can quickly find out if they just endedup in a titanic and bail the fuck out. Bad for employers? Sure. It's not the jobhopper's fault.

I'm in Business IT side of things. My first example was working for a small-ish division inside a big company. I saw that the division losta big contract as soon as I joined. Then when I found out they lost their second big contract, I landed a job at company #2. 3 months after I left, the office I worked in got shuttered and people got laid off. This lasted 2 years. Company #2, I started looking for work as soon as I joined. Toxic work culture, revenues declining, terrible merger. When I gave my notice one year later, boss offers a sweet conteroffer with $20k on the spot bonus. I declined. Near the end of 2016, enter C-Level was shitcanned by the shareholders. Division restructured. Boss laid off. Ex-colleagues looking for work and texting me for connections. At Compny #3 now and it seems I'm finally atthe right place

 

[Manmademan]

Unions don't only exist in the public sector. *waves hand*

As for if there are differences in speed after working across multiple environments private and public I would say it's all about what goals exist for the team. Deadlines will be met by hardworking people in private and public sector. Working in a comfortable chummy environment is totally dependent on very sociable and or generous people being hired, it has nothing to do with the job sector.

exactly. There's a weird talking point (usually spread by conservatives for some reason) that public sector employees are slow, lazy, and inefficient.

uh...no. Not at all. And pretending that the private sector is full of nothing but highly motivated, efficient employees in contrast to them is laughable. The only difference between public and private sector employees is transparency. You have no idea how efficient Exxon, Monsanto, etc actually are, and they will not tell you unless there's a massive scandal on the level of Enron, Worldcom, etc that forces them to make that information public in court.

I've been in state government for years- private contractors get brought in to do the work of public sector employees all the time, usually with cost reductions as the excuse. They ALWAYS end up doing the exact same level of work, and charge more per hour to do it.

 

[CreepingFear]

I'm going to stay with my current company for 2-2 1/2 years. I think that's fair. I am open to things happening. Maybe admins leave and I can get a promotion sooner, but I am not counting on it.

 

[Bebpo]

Eh, as an employer I treat all my employees like friends & family at my company. Always go out of my way for my employees and let them do whatever they want as long as it's within reason. Only fired a person once after a week and it was because they were terrible and everyone else complained. This is just anecdotal but I feel smaller companies are more personal because everyone works together, and the cog in the machine stuff is more big corporate. Our employees all stick around for decades, which I hope is because they like the job.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

https://bothsidesofthetable.com/nev...ke-terrible-employees-e30cd5ff7322#.2ttskorvf

this is what employerologists actually believe

This guy, haha. The level of loyalty should be equal between employee and employer.

That said, multiple jobs within a year can be a flag.

 

[entremet]

exactly. There's a weird talking point (usually spread by conservatives for some reason) that public sector employees are slow, lazy, and inefficient.

uh...no. Not at all. And pretending that the private sector is full of nothing but highly motivated, efficient employees in contrast to them is laughable. The only difference between public and private sector employees is transparency. You have no idea how efficient Exxon, Monsanto, etc actually are, and they will not tell you unless there's a massive scandal on the level of Enron, Worldcom, etc that forces them to make that information public in court.

I've been in state government for years- private contractors get brought in to do the work of public sector employees all the time, usually with cost reductions as the excuse. They ALWAYS end up doing the exact same level of work, and charge more per hour to do it.

Yeah, I would agree. I just was lamenting the job security lol.

Corporations have massive inefficiencies and bureaucracy. The private sector is not some paragon of functionality.

Eh, as an employer I treat all my employees like friends & family at my company. Always go out of my way for my employees and let them do whatever they want as long as it's within reason. Only fired a person once after a week and it was because they were terrible and everyone else complained. This is just anecdotal but I feel smaller companies are more personal because everyone works together, and the cog in the machine stuff is more big corporate. Our employees all stick around for decades, which I hope is because they like the job.

The article is not talking about being some unfeeling robot. The network section in the full article contradicts this. All it is saying is that we're all expendable and to prepare accordingly. It's not against warm work relationships.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Yeah. Learned this early on.

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah, I would agree. I just was lamenting the job security lol.

can't speak for federal, but the degree of job security that exists for the public sector at my level (state) is exaggerated.

I recently changed agencies and am doing mostly labor and employment relations work- this is largely employee discipline and terminations, and i am very, VERY busy.

You won't be fired at a whim or with no explanation because your supervisor had a bad day or doesn't like your haircut, but how often does this really happen in the private sector? Getting fired for CAUSE though? Very, VERY easy to do, since it's usually spelled out in black and white what is grounds for discipline between the Union and Management.

There's been no shortage of people who are just gobsmacked when the hammer comes down on them in a disciplinary hearing, because they assumed a government job was a "job for life" regardless of their performance or behavior.

 

[george_us]

It also would possibly burn some bridges with the company wanting to hire you and then telling them no I already have a job.

I don't see how? The other company probably already knows you're currently employed. If you decline their offer, all that means is that the other company didn't make a good enough offer to steal you away.

 

[Almighty]

Yeah I learned this early on. Both from working for some companies that made it clear you are just a cog and there are ten people lining up for your job. As well as from people I personally know that worked for their companies for years and years, but were fired right before they could claim their pensions/retirement benefits.

The company will look out for themselves and you need to look out for you.

 

[GCX]

Eh, I really don't like the "never stop looking for work" attitude. If I'm happy with my job and the company is doing fine, I'm not going to start going to interviews around town just because there could be something even better out there. If anything, changing jobs can be very risky in many ways, it's not automatically an upgrade.

If the job doesn't feel right or there are some dark clouds over the company, then I can understand looking for new new opportunities. I have plenty of experience about that.

 

[nicoga3000]

Companies of all sizes can be heartless. Don't be fooled. Think of the advice as an insurance policy.

Most people need to work for a living, so the stakes are higher on the employee to look out for number one.

While I know what you're saying, I can assure you that my company isn't this way. It's partially the industry I'm in and partially the company culture. There are companies that exist that really do care about their employees. Sure, they're few and far between, but they exist in most industries.

I mean, I've been at my company for 8 years and have loved every day of it.

 

[danthefan]

I worked at a company where the CEO got laid off. The lack of loyalty goes all the way up.

I worked for a $100bn revenue bracket company where the CEO got replaced.

There's nothing really new in that article tbh. Anyone with a modicum of experience in the workplace will realise the stuff they're saying. I stayed in my last role for two years, decided the company wasn't doing enough for me and my career, and just moved on. You have to look after yourself.

I find the job offer point a bit weird though... You can't hang onto job offers indefinitely.

 

[Flux]

If you sign up to glassdoor/indeed/beyond/linkedin and others, you spend 5 minutes a day looking at postings and see if there's anything interesting. Your resume is current and that and your cover letter need minor tweaks for a position and you fire it off with little effort. You don't do that for everything that comes around. And of course, if you're specialized it is easier than if you are entry level with a BA to pick and choose. You have a job, you can be choosy. You know you can't burn vacation days interviewing every week, so keep it reasonable.

I have those accounts, guess it wouldn't hurt to get the apps. I have my resume and a generic cover letter on my Google Drive to access by phone. You're right, I wouldn't be sending out applications en masse and can take the time to send one if I like it.

I am still settling into my current role, maybe it just hasn't dawned on me to start looking after being on the jon hunt for ~6months.

 

[Kas]

Sadly, I'm sort of there.

I work as a manager of a fast food place, and have for about 10 months, the rest as a credit member.

I have zero skills outside my industry, I get paid $3 above federal minimum wage, and I get 40 hours a week.

No matter what I do and what jobs I look for, they all suck since ive basically failed my life at this point.

 

[CreepingFear]

Sadly, I'm sort of there.

I work as a manager of a fast food place, and have for about 10 months, the rest as a credit member.

I have zero skills outside my industry, I get paid $3 above federal minimum wage, and I get 40 hours a week.

No matter what I do and what jobs I look for, they all suck since ive basically failed my life at this point.

I had minimum wage jobs until I was 32. Don't give up. You need to find your calling. For me, it was IT. I am a high school dropout with only a year or so of Jr. College and I now work in a office, making a live able wage and with a bright future ahead of me. Find something realistic like plumber, electrician, etc. Those jobs can make decent money. You need to find a trade and master that shit.

 

[entremet]

While I know what you're saying, I can assure you that my company isn't this way. It's partially the industry I'm in and partially the company culture. There are companies that exist that really do care about their employees. Sure, they're few and far between, but they exist in most industries.

I mean, I've been at my company for 8 years and have loved every day of it.

Sounds like a great situation. Those are rare.

 

[Extra Sauce]

I don't understand the "Always Keep a Job Offer In Your Back Pocket" thing. Job offers have an expiry date and if you just keep finding new ones without taking them, after awhile you'll be known in your field/area as that person who is simply wasting recruiters's time.

 

[nicoga3000]

Sounds like a great situation. Those are rare.

They really are, and I'm not discounting the article. It's really sad that people have to be so offensive in their job search and company life. I am insanely fortunate to be employed where I am.

 

[Electric Eye]

That's why unions matter.

Damn right and it sucks that union jobs are the ones where companies are even more assholes. As soon as you're hired they are finding ways to get you fired. Insane.

 

[entremet]

They really are, and I'm not discounting the article. It's really sad that people have to be so offensive in their job search and company life. I am insanely fortunate to be employed where I am.

Well the article doesn't say those don't exists, just that they are rarer these days. It ain't the 50s.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

https://bothsidesofthetable.com/nev...ke-terrible-employees-e30cd5ff7322#.2ttskorvf

this is what employerologists actually believe

Well this is definitely true, I review resumes occasionally and multiple jobs under a year are a huge red flag that would likely cause me to trash the resume.

Dodging a bullet, then. I'm never working anywhere that requires blinding loyalty as a prerequisite.

 

[Phobophile]

In my experience, the bigger the corporation, the more bloated the bureaucracy gets and employees eventually become seat warmers. You're completely replaceable at this point. You often don't need to be good or smart at your job, just competent enough to do the bare minimum. There may be some opportunity for growth if you perform well enough or turn enough heads but you often see that those above you came in from the outside. Raises are often meager, barely keeping up with the rate of inflation, if even. So it's like if you wanted a raise, you have to change jobs.

I've changed jobs several times in the past 10 years for different reasons, including lack of growth and a toxic work environment. But without changing jobs, I wouldn't have made a $25-30k bump in salary in just 7 years.

 

[Violence Jack]

I'm going through this now. After talking it over with my wife and therapist, my company isn't paying extra what I'm worth, and I need more of a work life balance. Otherwise, my company is fine. I want to achieve more in my career instead of just settling for a job that's "good enough".

 

[Kadayi]

Yeah HR, in particular, are definitely something to be wary of. The front presented is that they are there to listen and deal with internal issues in a fair and impartial way, but the reality is that they'll always look to protect their most valuable assets when push comes to shove. Have a Boss prone to bullying? Well unless you're even more valuable to the company than they are, they'll invariably turn the problem around onto you. Don't go to HR, just find another job and get out of there.

 

[God Dayumm]

Good points, and I want to add one: don't burn bridges.

You never know if one day you would have to go back to your old job, or collaborate with a former client/provider, or be interviewed by that one manager you met at a conference last year. Unless they treated you shitty and you had to snap back at them, it is good to leave people with the impression that you are a responsible and amiable worker.

 

[Steejee]

I'm not going to go around interviewing for another job if I'm happy with my current one. Interviewing sucks in general, and in software they're exhausting.

That being said, I'm not going to outright discount any interest that comes my way, either. You don't owe your company anything in the end.

Dodging a bullet, then. I'm never working anywhere that requires blinding loyalty as a prerequisite.

Preferring people who you can expect to stick around for at least a year isn't demanding blinding loyalty, it's making a wise investment. Hiring people is expensive, and hiring someone you aren't confident will stick with the job at least a little while is just stupid. There are exceptions (you had contract jobs, companies folded, layoffs, etc), but people who job hop frequently might as well have a big sign above their head that says "Waste of time and money". Yeah I just said you don't owe your company anything in the end, but that doesn't mean you should make it difficult to trust you.

 

[m_shortpants]

I don't give a shit about my current employer (one of the biggest software companies in the world), but what I do care about is my manager and my team. I've been grateful to have an incredible manager who has done everything he can for me in terms of promotions, raises, and personal growth. I really respect him.

I just got another job offer which I will be accepting and I'm dreading the talk. I know that he will be happy for me because that's the kind of guy he is but I will still feel like I'm letting him down. At the end of the day though I have to what's best for my career.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

https://bothsidesofthetable.com/nev...ke-terrible-employees-e30cd5ff7322#.2ttskorvf

this is what employerologists actually believe

You’re in it more for yourself than your company.

lmao, and who the fuck is in it more for the company then themselves when the company is always about itself by a monumental margin? Dude is delusional, but also right. People who job hop don't always have as many options at certain jobs due to their staying power.

 

[Coriolanus]

Well this is definitely true, I review resumes occasionally and multiple jobs under a year are a huge red flag that would likely cause me to trash the resume.

dude at the link is throwing a bitchfest if peeps worked in 6 places by the time they 30, or if they work "only" 18 months at a place before bailing. He'd probably foam at the mouth with apopletic rage if he saw resumes from dudes that worked in 3-4 companies in the same year.

I don't understand the "Always Keep a Job Offer In Your Back Pocket" thing. Job offers have an expiry date and if you just keep finding new ones without taking them, after awhile you'll be known in your field/area as that person who is simply wasting recruiters's time.

he means in a "be aware of where is the demand for your skills and of how much dosh you should be getting" sense. It'd be quite silly to legit keep going out for interviews just for the lulz, obv.

 

[Lumination]

Looking for a job while you have a job is amazing. You can choose to be very selective and have higher standards than if you were desperate.

As an alternative, I'd suggest saving 3mo living expense if you are able. This will cut down on the extra workload that can amount to nothing and allows you to comfortably look for work with higher standards while taking some time off.

 

[Glass Shark]

This guy, haha. The level of loyalty should be equal between employee and employer.

That said, multiple jobs within a year can be a flag.

Through a series of very shitty events mostly outside of my control, I've had five different full-time jobs within the past two years. I was terrified this would kill my resume and chances of getting anything else, but the companies I interviewed with didn't seem to care that much after I explained what happened. It all depends on your skillset and how you sell yourself.

 

[clav]

Some comments in here make me wonder if ethnicity + height make a difference.

Advice doesn't work for everyone when privilege + prejudice/bias is involved.

Looking for a job while you have a job is amazing. You can choose to be very selective and have higher standards than if you were desperate.

That depends on your current job. If your current job's absence causes stress + accidents + hazards + interrupted workflow at the current company and if you don't get the job you interviewed, then you wasted your time + made your current performance worse.

 

[Gray Matter]

What gets me is when folks are scared to take sick or vacation time

I took a weeks vacations 6 months into a new job. It's my time off and I'm going to use whenever I want.

 

[n0razi]

What if you're the owner?

 

[Conan-san]

I work in a small enough office such that if things ever got interminable everyone involved would know and they'd soon find their website not working.

 

[nicoga3000]

I took a weeks vacations 6 months into a new job. It's my time off and I'm going to use whenever I want.

Yeah, take your fucking vacation. If you're at a company that doesn't encourage you to use it OR doesn't allow you to cash it out, you're probably at a bad company.

My company doesn't have either option, and the owner has flat out said that the vacation is there to use. So you better believe I use every day.

 

[Orayn]

What if you're the owner?

Then you're either already a member of the ruling class or a suckup hoping to become one.

 

[entremet]

What if you're the owner?

You have clients and employees to keep happy lol. Along to checking your P/L statements.

Whole 'nother set of problems

 

[John Kowalski]

What if you're the owner?

Be careful with your means of production

 

[Mattamus-Prime]

Don't understand the "Keep offers in your back pocket" advice. So say I got out and get three interviews and two offer me a job. I tell them I'll think about it and that's it? Go back to my current job and keep those two in my back pocket? What if they need the position filled? Then the offer goes to someone else and it's no longer an offer. Are there employers out there that just sit and wait until the person they offered the job to comes knocking?

Remember, a job offer isn't a contract—you can collect offers like a trick-or-treater on Halloween and never move.

What if these companies need employees and that's why they are interviewing? Am I taking that piece of advice too literal?

 

[gutter_trash]

OP is correct, HR are not your friends.

Seek out the friendlier ear from a project coordinator or superior before ever engaging HR directly.

If anyone has an issue, it us always best to talk with a superior or equivalent

 

[Rodney McKay]

Definitely agree that you shouldn't have loyalty to a company. Even if you don't love the job, you should probably give it at least a year since it looks better on resumes to show that you are able to stay somewhere for a while. My first 3 jobs out of college I: left after a year (company wasn't doing well), left after a little over a year (out of my control), and left after a little over a year (contract that didn't get renewed).

I'm finally at a low stress job doing what I want for good pay and good benefits. It's another contract job, but the contract ccompany won a contract to extend it for 3 more years so I'm finally at a job I actually WANT to stay at long term. I want to ask for a raise now that the contract got approved, but other than that I have no complaints for once.


About HR...
It's true they are out to protect the company, but that doesn't mean you can't use that to your advantage in certain situations.

My old job had a boss that was a nightmare for everyone. He was losing us business and he was an asshole to everyone. I didn't know what to do until we got an experienced manager hired and he encouraged us to go to HR with the issues and how it was affecting our work. The company flew the guy to their headquarters and told him to improve or else, and after a few days of showing no improvement that guy was gone.

Companies want their employees to do good work, they want to make money, and they DEFINITELY don't want harassment lawsuits.

Sadly, I'm sort of there.

I work as a manager of a fast food place, and have for about 10 months, the rest as a credit member.

I have zero skills outside my industry, I get paid $3 above federal minimum wage, and I get 40 hours a week.

No matter what I do and what jobs I look for, they all suck since ive basically failed my life at this point.

Try looking into some cheap community college courses (night courses, online, weekends are sometimes available) or, if it applies to your field, try getting some certifications online.

I had a friend who worked for a tech contracting company and he always had great paying jobs and he told me that getting some online Microsoft certifications in programming or IT was a huge help when he could put that on his resume. I think you usually have to pay to take the exam in order to get certified, but there are tons of free resources to study and practice before you actually take the test. And even if you don't have direct experience working in the field you want to go into, it will defintiely make your resume look better if you can say you have the skills required to do the job (being able to code HTML, speak a second language, fast typing, etc.).

I got a ScrumMaster certification (a Project Management thing) and the actual test was easy as hell. My old job paid for the two days of classes, but if I'd just studied the materials and watched the videos online I'd probably have been able to pass the test in less time than that. Having that certification on my resume definitely got me more emails about positions, but I sadly don't have interest in that field (plus I suck at managing people, haha).

Not having direct experience will definitely make it tough to get your foot in the door, but just keep applying. It took me 9 months after graduating college to find a decent job in the field I wanted (honestly one of the worst times in my life, just applying to multiple jobs every day). Eventually there will be a quality entry level position and you'll be able to start building some experience in what you want to do. Even getting a job near what you want can help you transition into something you want.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Eh, as an employer I treat all my employees like friends & family at my company. Always go out of my way for my employees and let them do whatever they want as long as it's within reason. Only fired a person once after a week and it was because they were terrible and everyone else complained. This is just anecdotal but I feel smaller companies are more personal because everyone works together, and the cog in the machine stuff is more big corporate. Our employees all stick around for decades, which I hope is because they like the job.

But you'd still put the company before loyalty to them. If you are losing money, you don't have them sticking around until you go under, you make changes. Of course treat your employees well enough, but don't get taken advantage of also. It's a fine line with some people.

 

[michaelius]

lmao, and who the fuck is in it more for the company then themselves when the company is always about itself by a monumental margin? Dude is delusional, but also right. People who job hop don't always have as many options at certain jobs due to their staying power.

It makes sense - every new employee has starting period when he is learning required stuff and corporate culture - if you have to replace people too often then that period of lower productivity is going to accumulate.

 

[Kadayi]

You never know if one day you would have to go back to your old job, or collaborate with a former client/provider, or be interviewed by that one manager you met at a conference last year. Unless they treated you shitty and you had to snap back at them, it is good to leave people with the impression that you are a responsible and amiable worker.

^Truth. Tempting as it is to cash in your grief chips and throw down a few F-bombs on your way out the door like you're the hero of your own life movie, in the world of LinkedIn and hyper-connectedness, it's not worth the consequence.

I gave notice last year with a view to returning to freelancing because things weren't working out where I was. Much to the annoyance of my friends I gave my employers a longer than usual notice period as I knew leaving would put extra strain on the department up to the end of the year, and it would give them the opportunity to get a replacement in. They were so taken with the offer, that they've kept me on as a freelancer the last few months. Better money, fewer hours and with an easier working relationship (no more office politics to deal with). I don't expect the situation to last forever but I'd of forgone a few months steady income if I'd been all 'fuck you guys' about things.

 

[B-Dex]

Seriously people indeed is amazing. Upload your resume there and just send it off occasionally to any postings that you find interesting.

 

[captive]

I've tried to explain this to so many of my friends before. They graduate and get really excited about a new job and let themselves get taken advantage of. If things start going sideways, keep detailed records and leave a paper trail. And always be on the look out for something better. Nobody is going to take care of you better than yourself.

Sometimes you have to learn the hardway.

I fortunately learned very quickly. Much more quickly than some of my other coworkers.

For me it was being fired without cause because my boss didn't like me. He was new, but was a know nothing. He would system things like "we need more jennys on the team" what he failed to notice about this girl was that she was in school and would often use work time for school work and even bit answer the helpdesk phone. Now I have no problem with student internships or whatever, but she was a full employee and this wasn't a school or internship program.

Anyway I got a new job for more money in less than a week and this was a bigger raise than all of the raises I had been given at the previous place combined.

Now I work from home and use every last second of PTO that I get.

I'll never understand people I've seen even here on gaf that claim they don't use vacation because they want to get ahead.

 

[ebullientprism]

It's the opposite. If you already have a job, you can give no fucks during interviews and show a lot of confidence because at the end of the day, you have a job. Many companies view people more highly if they are currently working than if they are out of a job and looking for one.


It's really not that hard. You set aside like 30 minutes a day or so. Maybe, do it on your lunch break. Make a generic resume that you can make some changes to tailor to the job duties of the job you are applying for. Send out like 2-3 resumes a day. Sites like indeed.com can make shit fairly easy.

Genuinely curious. What would you do if you get an offer that pays better than your current one?

Lets say you are nice and settled at your current job and there is no threat of losing it any time soon. Do you just roll the dice hoping you dont get a shit boss or crap working environment for a little more pay?