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[GringoSuave89]

DC's success is not dependent on anything to do with Marvel. They just to make better movies. Crazy concept, I know. Fox doesn't seem concerned with Marvel Studios, and they've been doing pretty well for themselves.

If we are lucky, WW and JL will be relieved well and make a good amount of money. That will go a long way.

 

[Tabby]

James Cameron Names Zack Snyder As An Inspiration

 

[LionPride]

DC's success is not dependent on anything to do with Marvel. They just to make better movies. Crazy concept, I know. Fox doesn't seem concerned with Marvel Studios, and they've been doing pretty well for themselves.

If we are lucky, WW and JL will be relieved well and make a good amount of money. That will go a long way.

If JL crosses a billion, they good for another two years

 

[duckroll]

James Cameron Names Zack Snyder As An Inspiration

Why not link the actual original source with has a video too, for maximum impact?

https://twitter.com/ComicBookDebate/status/833086154052403201

 

[santi_yo]

 

[Ross61]

Anybody read Scalp? What do you think about the soon to be WGN America adaptation?

Anybody read The Kitchen comic? What do you think about the adaption at New Line from Straight Outta Compton writer Andrea Berloff.

 

[broncobuster]

James Cameron Names Zack Snyder As An Inspiration

Many directors respect guys like Snyder and Michael Bay for how technically accomplished they are despite their weak-ish storytelling talents. Ain't hard to see why.

 

[GringoSuave89]

If JL crosses a billion, they good for another two years

Just for being JL alone, it mightmake it, but it also needs great word of mouth.

 

[Ashhong]

DC's success is not dependent on anything to do with Marvel. They just to make better movies. Crazy concept, I know. Fox doesn't seem concerned with Marvel Studios, and they've been doing pretty well for themselves.

If we are lucky, WW and JL will be relieved well and make a good amount of money. That will go a long way.

That's exactly what he said though, he wasn't saying it's dependent on Marvel.

He's just saying that once the public perception of DCEU is better, there will be less nitpicking and "doom and gloom". Then again, that's a pretty obvious statement to make lol.

 

[duckroll]

Many directors respect guys like Snyder and Michael Bay for how technically accomplished they are despite their weak-ish storytelling talents. Ain't hard to see why.

Speaking of which.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsbpyDlz25k

 

[LionPride]

Just for being JL alone, it mightmake it, but it also needs great word of mouth.

We thought the same of BvS yo

Concept and name alone doesn't mean shit

 

[duckroll]

We thought the same of BvS yo

Concept and name alone doesn't mean shit

It does mean shit though. $873 million for a 27% RT film with an average rating of 4.9/10 is pretty amazing.

 

[a916]

Sure

Sure

Sure

Okay

....

If you don't think there's a different public perception for Marvel films and DC films, deserved or not, then you should open your eyes...

 

[Ninjimbo]

Many directors respect guys like Snyder and Michael Bay for how technically accomplished they are despite their weak-ish storytelling talents. Ain't hard to see why.

Yeah, directors usually see things from a different perspective than your average person. Someone like Cameron who's a nut for the technical aspects of film would probably love what Snyder does.

Another example is Nolan's love for the Transformers movies.

Cameron name dropping Snyder is awesome tho. I love all of Cameron's movies.

 

[LionPride]

It does mean shit though. $873 million for a 27% RT film with an average rating of 4.9/10 is pretty amazing.

But we all thought it was gonna be a Billion dollar movie because Batman vs Superman

It did not reach a billion and that was a disappointment. That movie is supposed to make a billion dollars by the end of 2016. It did not.

If you don't think there's a different public perception for Marvel films and DC films, deserved or not, then you should open your eyes...

No it comes from you mentioning the Darkseid point thinking people would criticize that heavily if Darkseid looked like, well Darkseid.

 

[Discotheque]

Michael Bay, Spike Jonze, Fincher, Gore Verbinski and Snyder among a bunch of other famous directors all worked under the same production company directing music videos.

I'm still pretty annoyed that the Heavy Metal project that was gonna have shorts by Fincher, James Cameron, Snyder, Verbinski and a few others got cancelled.

Especially after seeing the latest Mad Max where I would love to see more of that aesthetic done well.

It does mean shit though. $873 million for a 27% RT film with an average rating of 4.9/10 is pretty amazing.

yeah and people constantly fail to take into account how morose and grim the movie is. every comic movie that has passed the billion mark has had a much less bleak and mean-spirited approach to things (and yeah definitely including Nolan movies in this convo too)

when I saw BvS I was impressed at the 800+ million number really because this movie just seemed like poison to family audiences. or people who aren't really into comic book heroes. it's very niche.

 

[jackdoe]

It does mean shit though. $873 million for a 27% RT film with an average rating of 4.9/10 is pretty amazing.

It's got nothing on $1.1 billion for a 18% RT movie with an average rating of 3.9 though.

 

[WhiteWolf]

Arkham Knight was better at open world storytelling than anything else out there including Witcher 3. Even if the story itself wasn't as great as what was in Origins, the way Rocksteady did Knight was on another level: having Joker taunting you at random intervals, playing scripted hallucinations, triggering events simply by flying by an area, etc. It felt organic in Knight much more than in other open world games.

Yeah you're right about that, it did have amazing moments littered throughout the world. Manbat popping up out of nowhere was so cool, same with Pyg's opera music playing when coming upon one of his victims. It's one of the main reasons I finished it 4 times and it's what I hope can be built upon further in the next Batman game. Those open world moments plus a nemesis system? Can't wait.

 

[duckroll]

It's got nothing on $1.1 billion for a 18% RT movie with an average rating of 3.9 though.

Also a huge brand. Coincidence? I think not!

Spoiler

Hail Bay! Hail robot dinosaurs!

 

[IconGrist]

Also a huge brand. Coincidence? I think not!

Spoiler

Hail Bay! Hail robot dinosaurs!

To Disco's point though the Transformer movies are not typically grim or bleak movies.

 

[GringoSuave89]

We thought the same of BvS yo

Concept and name alone doesn't mean shit

It does mean shit though. $873 million for a 27% RT film with an average rating of 4.9/10 is pretty amazing.

This. The amount made is still great, but it should of done better.

 

[LionPride]

To Disco's point though the Transformer movies are not typically grim or bleak movies.

They long as fuck though. And that's really a bad point. BvS isn't dark and "Grim" really. Like at all. Families go see Transformers and Optimus dies in every movie. So it's a bs excuse as to why the movie that definitely should have made $1 billion didn't

 

[duckroll]

To Disco's point though the Transformer movies are not typically grim or bleak movies.

Dude. Have you like. Watched any of them? Lol.

 

[Ashhong]

They long as fuck though. And that's really a bad point. BvS isn't dark and "Grim" really. Like at all. Families go see Transformers and Optimus dies in every movie. So it's a bs excuse as to why the movie that definitely should have made $1 billion didn't

You don't think fucking BvS is dark and grim? Compared to transforming robots with balls? It's not the main reason why it didn't hit the mark, but it certainly didn't help.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Dude. Have you like. Watched any of them? Lol.

Literally all I remember is that there was one robot with a giant swinging pair of testicles.

I disagree that BvS was particularly dark and grim, though. It asked tough questions, but it had bright answers.

 

[IconGrist]

Dude. Have you like. Watched any of them? Lol.

Like BvS's level? Nahhhhh

 

[LionPride]

You don't think fucking BvS is dark and grim? Compared to transforming robots with balls? It's not the main reason why it didn't hit the mark, but it certainly didn't help.

Oh yeah Transformers 2, the one that had racist robots and shit, but also featured the main characters dying

And hell to the naw. They the same levels really, oh no, slightly "dark" events happen sometimes but you know it'll mostly be fine at the end and thing's will be straight. BvS ain't dark, unless you think your shadow is dark

 

[duckroll]

You don't think fucking BvS is dark and grim? Compared to transforming robots with balls? It's not the main reason why it didn't hit the mark, but it certainly didn't help.

I think TF3 is every bit as dark and grim as BvS, in some ways even more so, and it made over a billion too. TF4 isn't quite BvS, but it's still more cynical and bleak than any Marvel film in comparison. Michael Bay doesn't make joyful films.

Like BvS's level? Nahhhhh

Yeah you definitely didn't watch TF3 lol. The entire film was pure visual misery.

 

[guek]

They long as fuck though. And that's really a bad point. BvS isn't dark and "Grim" really. Like at all. Families go see Transformers and Optimus dies in every movie. So it's a bs excuse as to why the movie that definitely should have made $1 billion didn't

BvS is pretty goddamn grim, bruh. Whether it's good or bad, it rarely tries to be a "fun" movie. Bay's movies are popcorn spectacle flicks. Snyder has never made anything resembling Bay's work to my knowledge (never seen his owl movie and I never will).

 

[Discotheque]

Nah, BvS absolutely is a bleak outlook on superheroes. Superman spends most of the movie being shat on by the public and feeling existential about his purpose. Nobody is grateful for his help, people question if he should even bother to do so.

And then we have Batman spouting out lines like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJbALE2sp6s
https://youtu.be/QfubcZaU1is?t=16s

oh and lest we forget...burning Superman effigies on the news while a kid watches and cries lmao.

This absolutely is the bleakest mainstream superhero movie I've seen. And no it's not an excuse for it not making a billion dollars. But it's something that should be taken into account as to why it didn't connect with family audiences.

 

[IconGrist]

Yeah you definitely didn't watch TF3 lol. The entire film was pure visual misery.

TF3, no not really. Bits and pieces. But I may look into it now. I need to see a miserable Transformers movie.

 

[LionPride]

BvS is pretty goddamn grim, bruh. Whether it's good or bad, it rarely tries to be a "fun" movie. Bay's movies are popcorn spectacle flicks. Snyder has never made anything resembling Bay's work to my knowledge (never seen his owl movie and I never will).

It ain't that dark yo. It just isn't.

I think TF3 is every bit as dark and grim as BvS, in some ways even more so, and it made over a billion too. TF4 isn't quite BvS, but it's still more cynical and bleak than any Marvel film in comparison. Michael Bay doesn't make joyful films.



Yeah you definitely didn't watch TF3 lol. The entire film was pure visual misery.

TF3 has so much shit happening that makes it legit "darker" or whatever

Nah, BvS absolutely is a bleak outlook on superheroes. Superman spends most of the movie being shat on by the public and feeling existential about his purpose. Nobody is grateful for his help, people question if he should even bother to do so.

And then we have Batman spouting out lines like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJbALE2sp6s
https://youtu.be/QfubcZaU1is?t=16s

oh and lest we forget...burning Superman effigies on the news while a kid watches and cries lmao.

So no, fall back LionPride. This absolutely is the bleakest mainstream superhero movie I've seen. And, no it's not an excuse for it not making a billion dollars. But it's something that should be taken into account as to why it didn't connect with family audiences.

Yeah I don't fall back when a point I view to be, and I mean no disrespect, dumb as hell, is being said.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

The Transformer films gradually descend into slow, almost fetishistic shots of robot torture and dismemberment.

But the film's don't 'feel' serious, and everything is played for bombast and to be 'badass' that I can't call them grim. There's some fun subtext in 3 about the feelings of inadequacy and insignificance that come with growing up though.

 

[guek]

It ain't that dark yo. It just isn't.

More likely than not, your definition of dark is different from mine and others here. Besides, I didn't say dark, I said grim.

 

[IconGrist]

More likely than not, your definition of dark is different from mine and others here. Besides, I didn't say dark, I said grim.

Yea, BvS isn't dark. Dark is shit that will keep you up at night.

 

[Discotheque]

Yea, BvS isn't dark. Dark is shit that will keep you up at night.

Maybe if, like, uh Batman got like, raped in prison that would be...dark. That's dark.

 

[duckroll]

Maybe if, like, uh Batman got like, raped in prison that would be...dark. That's dark.

We've come full circle again.

 

[Ninjimbo]

BvS is grim as hell. Lion Pride, you cray.

Even tho it's grim, it is ultimately a hopeful movie at the end. But let's not pretend blowing up a house of government and assassinating senators is something blockbusters usually do. And BvS handles it with the proper dignity.

 

[LionPride]

Yea, BvS isn't dark. Dark is shit that will keep you up at night.

Like, for me, "dark" or whatever damn buzzword people like throwing around, is something legit bleak with almost no highs whatsoever. Mississippi Dammned for example, is dark as hell. Batman vs motherfucking Superman, is not. No cape movie, is dark.

BvS is grim as hell. Lion Pride, you cray.

Even tho it's grim, it is ultimately a hopeful movie at the end. But let's not pretend blowing up a house of government and assassinating senators is something blockbusters usually do. And BvS handles it with the proper dignity.

There are literal movies that are blockbusters with a plot revolving around the murder of politicians

AND blowing shit up

...Da fuck???

 

[bigboss370]

is it cause for concern that Justice League's budget is rumored to be like, half of BvS?

 

[Sibersk Esto]

BvS is grim as hell. Lion Pride, you cray.

Even tho it's grim, it is ultimately a hopeful movie at the end. But let's not pretend blowing up a house of government and assassinating senators is something blockbusters usually do. And BvS handles it with the proper dignity.

Uhhhh, what? Blowing up a house of government and assassinating government officials are definitely blockbuster plot points. I'm pretty sure it's Emmerich's bread and butter.

 

[IconGrist]

is it cause for concern that Justice League's budget is rumored to be like, half of BvS?

Not really. A lot of BvS's assets will likely carry on over. I remember reading some article on BvS's expenses decreasing costs for Wonder Woman and Justice League.

 

[duckroll]

I think this entire discussion is really shit now. LionPride is nuts because there's no reasonable discussion where BvS's tone isn't bleak and sombre in a way that hurts it in terms of tolerance level from mainstream audiences. But at the same time, blowing up a house of government and assassinating people is literally the plot of Captain America Civil War. Plot points are less relevant than the execution of them.

 

[guek]

BvS is grim as hell. Lion Pride, you cray.

Even tho it's grim, it is ultimately a hopeful movie at the end. But let's not pretend blowing up a house of government and assassinating senators is something blockbusters usually do. And BvS handles it with the proper dignity.

It's not even about death or assassinations or any kind of litmus test. It's about how stuff like that is framed narratively. Like, that whole scene you're talking about isn't about inspiring action or heroics or even vengeance or anger. It's just about taking a massive dump on Superman as he realizes he's gonna get blamed for that shit. It's not meant to be sorrowful, it's meant to be depressing.

 

[IconGrist]

I think this entire discussion is really shit now. LionPride is nuts because there's no reasonable discussion where BvS's tone isn't bleak and sombre in a way that hurts it in terms of tolerance level from mainstream audiences. But at the same time, blowing up a house of government and assassinating people is literally the plot of Captain America Civil War. Plot points are less relevant than the execution of them.

Yea but, why male models?

 

[Ninjimbo]

Like, for me, "dark" or whatever damn buzzword people like throwing around, is something legit bleak with almost no highs whatsoever. Mississippi Dammned for example, is dark as hell. Batman vs motherfucking Superman, is not. No cape movie, is dark.


There are literal movies that are blockbusters with a plot revolving around the murder of politicians

AND blowing shit up

...Da fuck???

Are we going to pretend that a house of congress and people being blown to bits isn't a tragedy? I mean, if that happened tomorrow it would be absolutely horrific. Why downplay that moment?

is it cause for concern that Justice League's budget is rumored to be like, half of BvS?

Nah. BvS took like 3 years to make. JL is taking almost 2. Less time to make, less time to pay. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[LionPride]

I think this entire discussion is really shit now. LionPride is nuts because there's no reasonable discussion where BvS's tone isn't bleak and sombre in a way that hurts it in terms of tolerance level from mainstream audiences. But at the same time, blowing up a house of government and assassinating people is literally the plot of Captain America Civil War. Plot points are less relevant than the execution of them.

I'm not nuts because the damn movie ain't dark to me, the movie didn't make $1 billion not because it's dark or whatever, because one, poor topic when Transformers makes a billion and that shit gets really bleak during the three hour run time, and two, Batman v Superman isn't ever really bleak and somber. Except for a couple scenes I guess.

 

[Discotheque]

Uhhhh, what? Blowing up a house of government and assassinating government officials are definitely blockbuster plot points. I'm pretty sure it's Emmerich's bread and butter.

yeah for sure.

i don't think shit like that really factors into how grim the movie felt though. it was more superman's place in the world and how the public viewed him (even something that normally is uplifting like saving a girl from a burning house is given such a downer payoff with him smiling and then realizing awww shit these fucking people are bowing down to me I'm out of here. I'm fed up with this world)

plus batman's extremely cynical outlook on the impact he had as a "superhero" and what he's leaving behind.

edit: agreed with that duckroll post forreal. damn LionPride, I dunno how you can't see it.

 

[IconGrist]

I'm not nuts because the damn movie ain't dark to me, the movie didn't make $1 billion not because it's dark or whatever, because one, poor topic when Transformers makes a billion and that shit gets really bleak during the three hour run time, and two, Batman v Superman isn't ever really bleak and somber. Except for a couple scenes I guess.

I'm not sure you're on the rational side of this argument. The entire plot of BvS is basically about how much everybody hates everybody and then Superman kills himself twice in the last 20 minutes of the movie.

 

[LionPride]

yeah for sure.

i don't think shit like that really factors into how grim the movie felt though. it was more superman's place in the world and how the public viewed him (even something that normally is uplifting like saving a girl from a burning house is given such a downer payoff with him smiling and then realizing awww shit these fucking people are bowing down to me I'm out of here. I'm fed up with this world)

plus batman's extremely cynical outlook on the impact he had as a "superhero" and what he's leaving behind.

edit: agreed with that duckroll post forreal. damn LionPride, I dunno how you can't see it.

It's not a can't, it's that it's not for me. I saw that movie two more times than I wanted. Shit. Ain't. Dark.