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[Brakke]

Like who the fuck cares if they are italian ? This article seems harmful and stupid.

What article? This is a retweet.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

What's the problem. It's not a "Top Asian Cuisine Chefs In Asia" list.

What's the percentage of white dudes in Asia? Certainly not 60%.

The undercurrent of cultural imperialism in the culinary world is very prominent.
Eddie Huang talks about this a bit in Fresh Off the Boat so y'all should read that.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

white is a pretty fucking broad colour to paint everyone with. Or do people actually equate Italian and French people as being the same fucking thing?

You get fucking offended with 'White', but not 'Asian'? Lol. Is a Japanese man the same as a Chinese man?

It does say 50 best resteraunts. I don't know the criteria though. Is it by profit or actual talent? Cause there are tons of Asian chefs that France loves for their fusion/numodern stuff.

 

[Austriacus]

Is it in the civilized part of Bangkok? Or out where you live? Gimme a name and location, bro!

Gaggan is indeed in the civilized part of bangkok, dont you worry.

 

[- J - D -]

It's.... remarkable that the top chefs in Asia are mostly white men, to say the very least. Especially when you consider the amount of Asians vs Caucasians living in Asia.

I know a lot of highly regarded chefs have moved to Asia to start a business there, since there's money to be made there and there's an entire food-culture, but it's highly unlikely that 60% of the top 10 chefs in Asia are white guys, a statistical anomaly, if you will.

I mean, you're likely correct but I don't think the statistics argument really holds water when talking about a list like this.

 

[pislit]

Makes sense because only white people eat from them.

 

[wandering]

white is a pretty fucking broad colour to paint everyone with. Or do people actually equate Italian and French people as being the same fucking thing?

And Asia isn't broad...?

As if people wouldn't be raising eyebrows if a top 10 list of European or American chefs were more than half of Asian descent.

 

[Sou]

Based on my experience living in Asia, many famous chefs are not interested in the hyper luxury market, which this ranking seems to target.

I think it would be a shame if "Asian cuisine is dominated by white chefs" is the conclusion people come to from this ranking most likely aim to cater to rich western market.

 

[random25]

I'm more surprised that a lot of these restaurants don't serve authentic Asian cuisines than the chefs being "white." Like there's so many French restaurants in there lol.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

You get fucking offended with 'White', but not 'Asian'? Lol. Is a Japanese man the same as a Chinese man?

It does say 50 best resteraunts. I don't know the criteria though. Is it by profit or actual talent? Cause there are tons of Asian chefs that France loves for their fusion/numodern stuff.

wtf are you talking about? when did i say anything of the sort? im not allowed to comment unless im equally questioning generalizations? really?!?

 

[gconsole]

It's originally a UK-based organization, but the Asia list is decided only by people who live in the region. Living in the region doesn't mean citizenship, however, and a lot of these top restaurants are founded by luxury hotels looking for top "global" talent, which usually means European-trained chefs. I know for a fact that all 6 top Asian chefs trained in Europe as well.

This is all luxury industry, and it's about favoring the 1% of global wealth, which is built out of the London/NYC financial industry and still favors a lot of French, Italian, and Japanese cuisine. That's also why all the restaurants in Japan are run by Japanese chefs - expect more Chinese chefs as the region opens up. But that's also why Thailand, Singapore, and HK have so many non-Asian chefs, who are following the financial expat market.

EDIT: David Thompson, who uses all Thai ingredients, is kind of an example of "only white man saves asia" kind of dude, like Last Samurai Tom Cruise, but at least he's expanding the horizons of what can be considered high-class cuisine, opening room for non-Japanese/Chinese Asian chefs. On the other hand, the whole worship of high-end super-expensive cuisine is extremely problematic, and representative of the serious class inequality rampant over the past decade or so. Proper representation in luxury chefs is just a tiny band-aid on it all.

Right. So that seems obvious to me that their point of view is super narrow to the western trained chef in a luxury restaurant rather than searching for the local talent or authentic restaurant. Im thai and i eat thai my wholr life , I have yet to find a single western chef thai food that is considered authentic and good to thai tougue.

Last samurai? Seriously?

 

[Zyzyxxz]

As a minority chef this doesn't bother me.

First of all there are very few female chefs in high end restaurant positions because Asian culture highly discourages women from entering this upscale field. In order for more women to be present on the list there first has to be women running these kitchens so its a catch-22.

Also there's nothing wrong with the top restaurants being run by white guys, David Thompson who runs Nahm is taking Thai food to the higher level and he is fully integrated into the culture and cuisine so he has paid his dues.

The issue may not be why are white chefs over represented in the Asia Top 50 list but why are Euro-centric cuisines over represented in the Top 50 list? It may more have to do with a cuisine-bias rather than ethnic bias.

Last thing to note I personally do not take stock in the San Pellegrino World's Best LIst. Frankly I think its bullshit due to the voting structure and how there is very little accountability and too much persuasive incentives. For example the year that a couple Peruvian restaurants entered the Top 100 Worlds list was around the same year the Peruvian government highly sponsored the "Visit Peru" program. The list is mostly a popularity contest and in no way a good metric of restaurant quality.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

wtf are you talking about? when did i say anything of the sort?

Am I wrong that you were triggered by the fact that people push Italians, Frenchmen, etc. under the umbrella term 'White'? Yet in the post you quoted you don't say shit about the term 'Asians'?

Seeing your edit. People lump white people as WHITE and all the asians (Yellow people if you prefer. I don't care either way.) as ASIANS without individual countries. They were equal in generalizations.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Am I wrong that you were triggered by the fact that people push Italians, Frenchmen, etc. under the umbrella term 'White'? Yet in the post you quoted you don't say shit about the term 'Asians'?

you're equating a skin colour to a region and coming off as needlessly antagonistic

 

[Austriacus]

Right. So that seems obvious to me that their point of view is super narrow to the western trained chef in a luxury restaurant rather than searching for the local talent or authentic restaurant. Im thai and i eat thai my wholr life , I have yet to find a single western chef thai food that is considered authentic and good to thai tougue.

Last samurai? Seriously?

Are you currently living in Thailand? If so you should go check out the australian dude in the list that has the thai restaurant in bangkok.

I havent personally gone but i heard good things about it from a friend.

 

[ZackieChan]

Right. So that seems obvious to me that their point of view is super narrow to the western trained chef in a luxury restaurant rather than searching for the local talent or authentic restaurant. Im thai and i eat thai my wholr life , I have yet to find a single western chef thai food that is considered authentic and good to thai tougue.

Last samurai? Seriously?

I get the feeling that most people didn't actually watch The Last Samurai beyond the title and Tom Cruise's credit.

Gaggan is indeed in the civilized part of bangkok, dont you worry.

Oh, is that who he was referring to? Join me, Bangkok-Gaf! Dinner's on me 😉

Edit: 4000 baht per person? I take it back!

 

[aznpxdd]

What's the percentage of white dudes in Asia? Certainly not 60%.

The undercurrent of cultural imperialism in the culinary world is very prominent.
Eddie Huang talks about this a bit in Fresh Off the Boat so y'all should read that.

Its funny because locals are usually the one who loves to discredit or undervalue their own cuisine in some situations in Asia. When a Chinese restaurant in Shanghai received its first 3 Michelin Starred ranking in 2016 last year, it was basically laughed off the list by locals - saying it is in no way deserving of it compared to others (mainly Western restaurants) on the list.

I see the same thing in USA also. The Asian communities there expect their own cuisine to be cheap and accessible. Its an internal problem as well.

 

[Uni on Everything!]

I've been to the restaurants in that top 10 list in Singapore and Thailand. Race issues aside the food was fantastic at all of them.

 

[Timbuktu]

Its funny because locals are usually the one who loves to discredit or undervalue their own cuisine in some situations in Asia. When a Chinese restaurant in Shanghai received its first 3 Michelin ranking in 2016 last year, it was basically laughed off the list by locals - saying it is in no way deserving of it compared to others (mainly Western restaurants) on the list.

I see the same thing in USA also. The Asian communities there expect their own cuisine to be cheap and accessible. Its an internal problem as well.

And why does it have to be expensive to be good?

 

[nelsonroyale]

In Asian country's like India women don't traditionally cook in restaurants, but cook in the home. Food often takes hours to cook, so they spend as much time honing their craft as many professional chefs. In general, I had better food in people's homes than I did in restaurants. Personally, I understand this ranking is merely for professional chefs and maybe I am quibbling, but in terms of quality of cooking, it doesn't work the same way in Asian as it does in the US or many European countryies were professional chefs are generally better than domestic ones...

Anyway, this is likely just based on popularity and reputation in some circles. I don't doubt you can get just as good or better food (by some metrics) in smaller, less internationally recognised venues.

 

[Alienfan]

6 white restaurant owners (most of whom are from countries famous for luxury cuisines) seems less alarming than the fact there are like 4 females owners in the top 50. WTF is that about

 

[aznpxdd]

And why does it have to be expensive to be good?

It doesn't. The point is that Asians are playing a big part in their cuisines not being elevated above "ethnic" cuisine status.

 

[Austriacus]

As a minority chef this doesn't bother me.

First of all there are very few female chefs in high end restaurant positions because Asian culture highly discourages women from entering this upscale field. In order for more women to be present on the list there first has to be women running these kitchens so its a catch-22.

Also there's nothing wrong with the top restaurants being run by white guys, David Thompson who runs Nahm is taking Thai food to the higher level and he is fully integrated into the culture and cuisine so he has paid his dues.

The issue may not be why are white chefs over represented in the Asia Top 50 list but why are Euro-centric cuisines over represented in the Top 50 list? It may more have to do with a cuisine-bias rather than ethnic bias.

Last thing to note I personally do not take stock in the San Pellegrino World's Best LIst. Frankly I think its bullshit due to the voting structure and how there is very little accountability and too much persuasive incentives. For example the year that a couple Peruvian restaurants entered the Top 100 Worlds list was around the same year the Peruvian government highly sponsored the "Visit Peru" program. The list is mostly a popularity contest and in no way a good metric of restaurant quality.

I agree with everything you wrote but this, Acurio was already on the list and he has been pushing for a while for peruvian cuisine to be recognised worldwide since he took La Mar to new york. It was only a matter of time.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

And why does it have to be expensive to be good?

Being on the San Pellegrino list doesn't equate to being good.

But being expensive does equate to being on the San Pellegrino list.

I agree with everything you wrote but this, Acurio was already on the list and he has been pushing for a while for peruvian cuisine to be recognised worldwide since he took La Mar to new york. It was only a matter of time.

I'm not discounting the quality of Peruvian food in fact my meal at Central was one of the best meals of my life and I love Acurio's restaurants (namely La Mar and Panchita) but I am merely trying to point out that the list is influenced by more than food and restaurant quality. There are many external non-culinary factors at play here as well.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Its funny because locals are usually the one who loves to discredit or undervalue their own cuisine in some situations in Asia. When a Chinese restaurant in Shanghai received its first 3 Michelin Starred ranking in 2016 last year, it was basically laughed off the list by locals - saying it is in no way deserving of it compared to others (mainly Western restaurants) on the list.

I see the same thing in USA also. The Asian communities there expect their own cuisine to be cheap and accessible. Its an internal problem as well.

Yup, lol. Asians like to taste test the cultures of the Western world which is why France is such a popular destination for us. (When we aren't being xenophobic as fuck)

I would say, however, Asians and Asian-Americans are way different. In the USA the divide is between generations of immigrants.

Also this is an industry poll that's basically a popularity contest for people to circlejerk over. Not worth getting ruffled about, imo.

 

[random25]

Its funny because locals are usually the one who loves to discredit or undervalue their own cuisine in some situations in Asia. When a Chinese restaurant in Shanghai received its first 3 Michelin Starred ranking in 2016 last year, it was basically laughed off the list by locals - saying it is in no way deserving of it compared to others (mainly Western restaurants) on the list.

I see the same thing in USA also. The Asian communities there expect their own cuisine to be cheap and accessible. Its an internal problem as well.

Local Asian cuisine in restaurants are usually foods that can also be served at home or even at cheap food stands on a regular basis, that's why in some cases they aren't valued that highly by locals even if served on high-end restaurants. It's kind of different in Western restaurant culture, where the menu is usually not that commonly cooked at smaller food outlets or at home.

 

[massoluk]

I see the same thing in USA also. The Asian communities there expect their own cuisine to be cheap and accessible. Its an internal problem as well.

I think it was more like a given that the best food is usually very specialized rather than based on the prestige of a chef. If you want best geese dish, you want to go to this 3rd generation restaurant in Petchburi Road, if you want best grilled river shrimps, you go to these couple of shops in Ayudhaya, if you want best Kapi Fried Rice, you go to this tiny hidden room in Soi 42 Sukhumvit 71 Road, if you want best roast duck, you go to Mandarin in Thonglor, want best crab curry, go to Somboon etc... Proclaiming this one restaurant is the best, period, is really a foreign concept still

 

[aznpxdd]

Local Asian cuisine in restaurants are usually foods that can also be served at home or even at cheap food stands on a regular basis, that's why in some cases they aren't valued that highly by locals even if served on high-end restaurants. It's kind of different in Western restaurant culture, where the menu is usually not that commonly cooked at smaller food outlets or at home.

I meant no offense when asking this, are you Asian or live in Asia? Just wondering what you wrote up there is personal experience or something ingrained by the food media.

 

[Bishop89]

If they're good at making the food does it matter what race the chef is? I realise it's Asian cuisine, but you don't need to be Asian to cook it well no?

yeah i dont understand the problem here.

You dont need to be Chinese to cook Chinese food, or Japanese to cook Japanese food.

 

[aadiboy]

yeah i dont understand the problem here.

You dont need to be Chinese to cook Chinese food, or Japanese to cook Japanese food.

Except this isn't about the cuisine, it's about the country that the chef is located in. And the fact that they can't find 10 asian chefs to fill a list is pretty weird.

 

[mieumieu]

Local Asian cuisine in restaurants are usually foods that can also be served at home or even at cheap food stands on a regular basis, that's why in some cases they aren't valued that highly by locals even if served on high-end restaurants. It's kind of different in Western restaurant culture, where the menu is usually not that commonly cooked at smaller food outlets or at home.

you havent been to any upscale Chinese or Japanese restraurants, have you?

 

[random25]

I meant no offense when asking this, are you Asian or live in Asia? Just wondering what you wrote up there is personal experience or something ingrained by the food media.

I am both. It's personal experience. The thing is in a lot of cases the ones you can find in high-end restaurants are also served in cheaper ones and the taste is almost the same, or even better in some cases. That is why there's this perception about value in Asian cuisine by locals.

you havent been to any upscale Chinese or Japanese restraurants, have you?

Japanese food are a bit different from the rest, that is why you see a lot of Japanese restaurants on the list. There are just dishes there that only skilled ones and the freshest of ingredients can really do.

As for Chinese, I've been to a lot, from expensive to cheap. And the only differentiating factors I can really see are the presentation, service and some more variety to the menu. Taste does not really vary that wide. Even my Chinese friends agree with me.

And when I say Asians, I just don't refer Japanese and Chinese, but just about everybody in Asia in general.

 

[Akira]

I just came back from japan with 400 dollars worth of sweets.
You better fucking believe the pastry part.

You better have bought some Tokyo Banana with that money.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

You better have bought some Tokyo Banana with that money.

Tokyo Banana is overrated.

Ichigo Daifukus, Japanese cheese tarts.

 

[squall23]

white people can going into any culture and become a part of it. eventually they end up being even better at whatever than the people who's culture they've joined. its that gift of neutral skin tones.



I was recently introduced to melonpan, not a Japanese bakery though, I don't think.

If you think melon pan is good, try the Hong Kong version called "Pineapple bun". Not because it tastes like pineapples but because it kind of sort of looks like one. Definitely better than a melon pan though.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Bourdain <3

But seriously there is a continuing trend of "ethnic" cuisines finding legitimacy only when prepared by chefs of a European persuasion.

And only when they are set in a "fine dining" situation. Any other types of restaurant? Nope, no sireee, impossible, regardless of the food quality that they serve.

 

[fertygo]

There's no Indonesian chef there is pretty BS

No Elite chef mentioning at our Hotel culture, especially Bali? come on.

 

[WaterAstro]

We need to settle this Iron Chef style.

ALLEZ CUISINE!

 

[Supermanisdead]

Yeah seriously.

But you know, it's probably a blessing in disguise. This way when we go actual delicious Asian food places in Asia we don't have to deal with a bunch of laowei clogging up the restaurant, breaking the chairs, and driving prices up and quality down.

arent u american tho

 

[shira]

We need to settle this Iron Chef style.

ALLEZ CUISINE!

 

[Qvoth]

yo wtf is that
looks pretty amazing

 

[Austriacus]

You better have bought some Tokyo Banana with that money.

This time i went to hokkaido so i brought stuff from the region so no tokyo banana this time

When i go back ill go to tokyo and get some from there plus refill on quality sake as well.

 

[ponpo]

Yeah seriously.

But you know, it's probably a blessing in disguise. This way when we go actual delicious Asian food places in Asia we don't have to deal with a bunch of laowei clogging up the restaurant, breaking the chairs, and driving prices up and quality down.

Clogging up the restaurant and breaking chairs? I didn't know "laowei" meant "citizen of Mainland China"

 

[Sakujou]

first of all, you should choose by their achievement and not because of their ethinicity. second, yeah, still a shame, that diversity still hasnt arrived in certain regions of this planet.

 

[Timbuktu]

And once again the causal racism at neofaf rears its head again.

 

[DarthMasta]

Only way I could think this list makes sense if it's voted for by people in Asia and they somehow think "foreign, exotic" Western food is cooler than their own "boring, everyday" food.

 

[Usobuko]

If they're good at making the food does it matter what race the chef is? I realise it's Asian cuisine, but you don't need to be Asian to cook it well no?

Do you really believe this?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If they're good at making the food does it matter what race the chef is? I realise it's Asian cuisine, but you don't need to be Asian to cook it well no?

Unless white males have a genetic predisposition to cooking I'm unaware of, it's a symptom of a biased system.

 

[gconsole]

Are you currently living in Thailand? If so you should go check out the australian dude in the list that has the thai restaurant in bangkok.

I havent personally gone but i heard good things about it from a friend.

I'm currently living in UK. But I will surely do when I go back for travel sometime this year.

I get the feeling that most people didn't actually watch The Last Samurai beyond the title and Tom Cruise's credit.

I watched that movie 2 times, in cinema and on Netflix. Incredible movie.

 

[Jerry]

Not surprised. Disappointed, not surprised.

Why?