sasimirobot
Junior Member
the breaking chairs thing baffles me.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Six of Asias Top Ten Chefs Are White Guys
- Thread starter Saya
- Start date
- Status
Ravensmash
Member
Well its not actually a list of chefs.
Its a list of high class restaurants that happen to be run by Westerners who've migrated there.
Best restaurant is an Indian Restaurant in Thailand, because why not
If you watch a chef's table you get a pretty good sense of why that is. Food critics in India are not interested in redefining Indian cuisine. Also people in India expect traditional Indian food not molecular gastronomy.
I'm not seeing this in my country, Singapore.
It also received Michelin awards just last year and everyone else is mostly saying how the list can be clueless at times.
? Did you actually read the article or the actual list? It's a list with 50 chefs, with the majority of them being Asian. There's a lot more than 10 Asian chefs on it.
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
I eat widely and at all types of restos, from Michelin starred joints to street stands, and I can say with confidence that the cheap food at my local hawker centre craps over all that overpriced euro top Chef food.
This seems like a pretty xenophobic and bigoted attitude towards foreigners.
You think they're voting for these people just because they're white? I mean do three seconds of research on who these people are.
From Richard Ekkebus' Wiki:
These rankings are not for your local food stalls, they are focused on expensive, gourmet dining. High class hotels scout the best talent in the world, and many European chefs are drawn to Asia due to the food culture and the ability to stand out (I think there's one too many French restaurants in Paris).
It's easy to fool the average person's tastebuds with copious amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Or in many cultures, overwhelming spiciness.
I've got a pretty easy to please palate myself, so I'm not any different, but that's the main reason why cheap local food is often considered "great". It doesn't say much about the quality of the food or the skills of the cook.
That's such a dumb attempt at handwaving.
These popularity polls continue to exist because they do drive traffic to the restaurants they pick. These lists are first and foremost are meant to guide tourists so it's fundamentally a problem that they are influencing money being driven to an outsized demographic that is hardly representative of that region.
To their credit it's required that someone making this list has to live there but the who knows if they made a career elsewhere and permanently immigrated or are using a 1-3 year work visa.
There should really be more Asian chefs on that list. Especially from non-haute-cuisine places. Some of the best chefs are easily missed if you don't go to mom-and-pop shops here in Taiwan. But their skill is undeniable.
I feel like there's a bit of a shitty attitude from some people that "That guy's not Asian!" even though we're talking about people who have lived, worked, communicated, and contributed to their Asian communities for years, in some cases. That's my own sensitivities showing, though.
I feel like there's a bit of a shitty attitude from some people that "That guy's not Asian!" even though we're talking about people who have lived, worked, communicated, and contributed to their Asian communities for years, in some cases. That's my own sensitivities showing, though.
Sounds pretty accurate actually but like another poster said only white people are able to enter a culture and be fully accepted into it without anyone raising any alarms even if they're a bunch of assholes about it.
TBiddy
Member
There are also people, that don't mind their game running in the wrong resolution at 20 fps.
Discotheque
Banned
that's a tough call actually. bourdain has that interesting tv series and all the world experience and perspective.
and fieri has the greatest beard dye job of all time.
Captain Smoker
Member
Maybe they are just good?
Example: Umberto Bombana (number 4 in the list) works in Hong-Kong since 1993, that's 24 years as of now. Who cares if he's white.
Example: Umberto Bombana (number 4 in the list) works in Hong-Kong since 1993, that's 24 years as of now. Who cares if he's white.
Last Samurai was a throwaway reference - my point was that in European-influenced haute cuisine culture that this silly list encapsulates, only white people can introduce and legitimize Asian ingredients.
I don't agree with that sentiment whatsoever, but I also don't have much interest in any of these restaurants - price and "status" doesn't equal quality, and the ability to crack the top 50 on these lists is primarily a measure of the owner's ability to schmooze and advertise with the right people (judges, a select group).
And expensive. Mostly expensive. Eating at one of these places is a status symbol.
I don't think this is unreasonable at all. When you go to a restaurant you're typically looking to have food you wouldn't normally have at home. If you do go to a restaurant serving your cuisine you're also going to have higher expectations. I could see these two factors being reasons for why people would rate foreign cuisine higher.
For example, I live in the UK and one of my favourite restaurants serves Nepalese food. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was fairly average compared to normal Nepalese cooking.
For example, I live in the UK and one of my favourite restaurants serves Nepalese food. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was fairly average compared to normal Nepalese cooking.
TBiddy
Member
I think you're severely underestimating these peoples abilities to cook.
That's probably not even close to true, and furthermore has nothing to do with the bigoted post i quoted because it doesn't seem to be very accepting of any foreigners at all.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Do you think white males are just better cooks or where does the discrepancy come from?
boiled goose
good with gravy
French and Italian cuisine are the most developed for fine dining.
That's part of the issue.
Of course there's also a perception of European as "fancy" and also it's an old boys club at the top.
That's part of the issue.
Of course there's also a perception of European as "fancy" and also it's an old boys club at the top.
Skellig Gra
Member
Not surprised, western publication prefers western style food. It's clearly this isn't top Asian cuisine as if there was even such a homogeneous thing.
LyleLanley
Banned
Is anyone saying white males are better cooks or just that these specific white males are better cooks?
Captain Smoker
Member
Loaded questions for beginners.
And the judges rank the chefs based on their skin color? 😂 😂 😂
TBiddy
Member
Clearly, it's impossible for these specific chefs to be better than their colleagues, since the majority of them are white. There must be something else here.
Correct, this list is mostly fancy and expensive restaurants only. They are not choosing your local mom and pop place. No matter how delicious their food is.
Sure, but considering how amazing food in Japan, Thailand, Singapore, China, and many other Asian countries is it's a bit hard to believe that this list is accurate.
I don't think this is a sign of discrimination or preferential treatment by critics. Top chefs travel and learn all over, often finding inspiration in some other cuisine and working hard to come up with new ideas within them. Some of those guys have spent decades living in their adopted country and working with that food. It's just how the scene looks today. In five years the entire top ten may be Asian.
It goes both ways, too. Some of the most celebrated chefs throughout Europe and the Americas came from Asia. Or, are of Asian descent and incorporated contemporary American (North and South), or whatever their European home nation is, ideas into their food.
I'm no expert, I just watch a shitload of cooking shows and documentaries, so I've heard the stories of many of these chefs.
It goes both ways, too. Some of the most celebrated chefs throughout Europe and the Americas came from Asia. Or, are of Asian descent and incorporated contemporary American (North and South), or whatever their European home nation is, ideas into their food.
I'm no expert, I just watch a shitload of cooking shows and documentaries, so I've heard the stories of many of these chefs.
Ravensmash
Member
This is a look at high class restaurants in the region.
Those high class restaurants tend to have the involvement of international chefs.
This isn't like some awesome local place got bumped off the list due to 'Johnny Foreigner' .
And its food... It's subjective! Accuracy doesn't come into it.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
The top French cuisine chef is Asian, that's cultural appropriation.
I really don't want to specify but, /s
LyleLanley
Banned
Having eaten at very few of these restaurants I have no idea why people in this thread, or Bourdain for that matter, are upset with this list.
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
Living in Japan right now, tried both, both amazing. Also ate the best pastry of my life here from a small bakery that also had amazing German bread (as a German I was crying tears of joy, that stuff is rarer than golden geese here) and croissants, the chief baker definitely apprenticed in both Germany and France, added his own amazing pastry and even sells them for reasonable prices. Sadly most bakeries here are chain-stores with super soft Japanese tailored stuff though.
Also Whiskey is good too, got a Nikka Whisky Pure Malt here next to my laptop and tastes as good as most 12 year Single Malts from Scottland IMO (also only 2600 Yen for 700ml too).
This.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Yeah, first we need to hear from Tabris before we can come to any conclusions.
Top food lists always skew towards European cuisine served in extremely lavish and expensive settings.
I really don't care what institutions like this and Michelin say about they judge "only the food," their opinions are invariably tinged by the setting and the reputation of the chef. There are exceptions (like Jiro, for example), but all of these kinds of lists skew towards a very certain type of restaurant.
Yes I'm sure Gaggan Anand really "appropriated" Indian cuisine, or Umberto Bombana "appropriated" that fine cooking right out the hands of the Italians.
I really don't care what institutions like this and Michelin say about they judge "only the food," their opinions are invariably tinged by the setting and the reputation of the chef. There are exceptions (like Jiro, for example), but all of these kinds of lists skew towards a very certain type of restaurant.
Yes I'm sure Gaggan Anand really "appropriated" Indian cuisine, or Umberto Bombana "appropriated" that fine cooking right out the hands of the Italians.
I'd rather 国际友人, thanks.
Hamburgers
Actually the list is highly skewed towards expensive or exclusive food (a problem in itself) and so that's why Japan shows up with two top ten sushi/Japanese haute cuisine slots. It's about the building location and type of clientele too. Michelin for example throws out a star to a food truck or market stall every now and then to cover for that disgraceful aspect of its lists too.
TBiddy
Member
Yep, exactly what I was saying above. They claim that the food is the only consideration, but that's just so clearly not the case. Which I understand, it's very hard to separate the experience from the food because eating is so contextual, but these lists are always highly, highly skewed towards haute cuisine.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked