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[MooseKnuckles]

PDP did not endorse Sargon or his views he linked Sargon because Sargon defended him, period. Duke is was the head of the KKK an organisation which killed people and Sargon was not. Is this really so hard to understand?

You don't have to accept/promote/endorse a defense provided by a rascist/sexist just because it lines up with your goal. Find a better source.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

I think that's pretty different as that was something he actually ordered from the guys, meaning it was his idea. He didnt order people to make swastikas in his game, he actually did the opposite.

What he does is actually showing Nazi imagery to "shock" his audience, have a laugh at it and then lecturing his audience about not doing that, despite the fact that he does it regularly. That's exactly what the WSJ reported. You can say he's telling the viewer what not to do, but he could easily do so without showing swastikas. It's the exact same thing he did with the Jesus guy saying "Hitler did nothing wrong". He chose to show it to his audience because he thought it was hilarious not because he thought someone should condemn it.

 

[Nanashrew]

PDP did not endorse Sargon or his views he linked Sargon because Sargon defended him, period. Duke is was the head of the KKK an organisation which killed people and Sargon was not. Is this really so hard to understand?

Doesn't help that PDP is now following Sargon of Akkad on Twitter as well. He's also following Stillgray who works at Heatstreet. Heetstreet is fake news and a site dedicated in a fight against "SJWs".

Why does he follow stillgray now? Because he defended him once just recently.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

I don't neccesarily disagree, but my problems with PdP are how he is handling the backlash much moreso than the "joke" itself. I will absolutely defend someone's right to make a bad joke, but when that joke falls flat, or when the result of that joke has consequences, own up and face them. Having the right to tel a bad joke does not mean you have to right to be free from judgement, does not mean you have the right to a Disney contract, it does not mean you have the right to not be criticized. Own up to those things, instead he is turtling up, insulating himself with the support of dipshits like Sargon and GG, and doubling down on the pathetic, cowardly Gamergate/Alt-Right defense mechanism of deflecting and blaming everybody else and whining about "PC" and "outrage culture" which is really just a front for "why can't I marginalized minorities and not be called out on it anymore?"

He's in fact done everything you've said in the two videos he's published. He said he didn't blame YT or Disney, he doesn't claim to be free of blame (he says that in this video). He doesn't ask for the right to not be criticised. He's said multiple times the joke was bad, that he understood that it had offended people and he would learn from it.

If you're not convinced by any of that, then all he can do is repeat himself, which I'm sure he'll continue to do, but if you've decided already that he's not sorry, then what more can be done? It's a super honest question.

 

[Makonero]

The whole "the point of the video was to show how far fiverr would go" defense rings false to me. It's like everytime some idiot prankster does a video about fondling random girls butts and they say "It was a social expirement about how people would react"

Yep. He's playing to his audience which apparently includes white supremacists. This is exactly what Trump did by not completely disavowing David Duke's endorsement. White supremacists know you can't outright endorse them, so you wink and nod at them to let them know you're on their side.

 

[malboroking]

That might be because a whoooole bunch of your fellow white gamers and nerds deep down believe similar thoughts about black people.

This is sad but true.

 

[Gator86]

People are defending Sargon? The dude has literally said that black people are genetically stupider than white people. He is a literal white supremacist. Now we have a guy saying Trump is just a funny nice guy sticking it to the SJWs? Donald Trump is concerned with one thing, Donald Trump. The man has been in the b spotlight for over 30 years, we know exactly who he is.

I've got bad news for you buddy...

Gaf is only remotely inhabitable thanks to the banhammer the Thor-like mods swing here. I'm consistently saddened by virtually every single thread here that discusses any topic relating to social issues. They're all graveyards.

 

[besada]

Meanwhile, over at an actual Nazi site...

PewDiePie (the world’s single most watched video celebrity) has given us another doozie of a video, in which he clearly shows the Daily Stormer not once, but twice. We all suspected that Pewdz was going to showcase Stormer on his YouTube channel with tens of millions of subscribers sooner or later, but there is a stunning twist.

The rest of the article is all about how they intended to flood the WSJ and attempt to get Ben Fritz fired.

 

[Genryu]

He's in fact done everything you've said in the two videos he's published. He said he didn't blame YT or Disney, he doesn't claim to be free of blame (he says that in this video). He doesn't ask for the right to not be criticised. He's said multiple times the joke was bad, that he understood that it had offended people and he would learn from it.

If you're not convinced by any of that, then all he can do is repeat himself, which I'm sure he'll continue to do, but if you've decided already that he's not sorry, then what more can be done? It's a super honest question.

Apologies tend to fall flat when in your next breath you lash out at other people and try to be a martyr.

 

[Moosichu]

Fuck taking the high road, they clearly are trying to ruin him so I say go for the jugulars

Yeah, but you doing it wrong if you are going for your own jugular.

 

[Chumley]

PDP did not endorse Sargon or his views he linked Sargon because Sargon defended him, period.

 

[ceramic]

The man paid people to hold up a sign with an anti-Semitic joke. I'm not sure why we needed an expose on what poor people on Fivvr will do for money. But, two people were willing to display an anti-Semitic statement for money, and one of them is PDP because he put it on his channel.

So, in a way the WSJ was just doing an expose on what people on Youtube will do for hits and money.

I don't see the issue with PDP putting the videos on his channel in the context of the point he was trying to convey.

If someone in my area was walking around with a placard holding racist comments, I would expect the news media in my area to show the messages (as images or otherwise) as part of their reporting. I wouldn't consider the newspaper to be spreading racist comments but rather reporting on the racist comments spread by others. I understand that by publishing those comments it runs the risk of having the message reach groups predisposed to accept those messages, but I would rather know the unfiltered truth.

For internet drama like this it's not that important, but when it comes to, e.g. alleged significant rape increases in Sweden driven by refugees, I would much rather me and others know about it vs. being kept in the dark.

(Granted, PDP isn't a news outlet, but I don't have an issue with him commenting on things such as this. )

For full disclosure here: I didn't know anything about Fiverr before I started following this. Is there any particular evidence that those who use it are desperately poor? I hadn't considered this line of thought previously. OK, so PDPs video was misguided, but I don't think that justifies labelling him 'racist' and 'a hero to Nazis'.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Meanwhile, over at an actual Nazi site...



The rest of the article is all about how they intended to flood the WSJ and attempt to get Ben Fritz fired.

*not a Nazi, but #1 with Nazis

 

[StoOgE]

And we can all agree that the two people in question had no choice in being debased. Nope, they couldn't possibly have resisted...

Ask yourself, if a poor white guy from the US had held up this sign on camera, would you give him a free pass - argue that he'd be debased? If Pewds himself had held up a sign on camera in a language he didn't understand that said something awfully racist would you have expected him to at least check before he did it.

Think about it and if you find that the answer is 'yes, I would have heaped at least some blame on a white western individual who did this', ask why. It's enlightening. To ask why you expect a white person to have a greater sense of agency and are more responsible for their actions that non-western, non-whites, who are excused as helpless victims who couldn't possibly have known what they were doing.

Dude, this is a dumb argument. Yes, the two people in India are also doing something that is bad. In the same way that the men in the bum fights videos should not have been fighting.

But one of these people decided to post a 'joke' on youtube to 50 million+ subscribers, and the other two guys debased themselves for 5 dollars.

In much the same way to a follower of Milo or Trump doing something horribly objectionable. They are responsible for their own actions, but the person who has a platform to reach million of people and influence them is the far scarier prospect.

And the "both sides" narrative creates a false equivalency between things that are not the same. One side is into racist jokes, doxxing and misogyny and the other side is saying "uhhh, that's not ok and you shouldn't hang out with racists".

 

[Fisty]

He dug a hole for Ben Fritz over there.

What's the problem? Ben can't make jokes about Jews? You SJWs just don't get the context

 

[Ninja Scooter]

He's in fact done everything you've said in the two videos he's published. He said he didn't blame YT or Disney, he doesn't claim to be free of blame (he says that in this video). He doesn't ask for the right to not be criticised. He's said multiple times the joke was bad, that he understood that it had offended people and he would learn from it.

If you're not convinced by any of that, then all he can do is repeat himself, which I'm sure he'll continue to do, but if you've decided already that he's not sorry, then what more can be done? It's a super honest question.

It's his stance against the WSJ and "fake media" that I find concerning, especially when A) his sourcing and platform are flimsy at best and B) it's eereily similar to the stance taken by the current fascist presidential administration, the alt-right, and gamergate. Not a rabbit hole I'd want to be going down or associating with. At that point when you look around and you are surrounded by shit bags like Sargon, Milo and Gamergate, it might be time for some introspection.

 

[Lork]

Are you arguing that understanding both sides of the argument is a bad thing?

Pretending you are "above" both sides of a discussion to make yourself feel superior while simultaneously revealing that you don't understand what's being argued is bad, yes.

 

[Makonero]

It's his stance against the WSJ and "fake media" that I find concerning, especially when A) his sourcing and platform are flimsy at best and B) it's eereily similar to the stance taken by the current fascist presidential administration, the alt-right, and gamergate. Not a rabbit hole I'd want to be going down or associating with. At that point when you look around and you are surrounded by shit bags like Sargon, Milo and Gamergate, it might be time for some introspection.

Introspection is for chumps who aren't millionaires you're all just jelly

 

[TenCentCoast]

Remember everyone, it's the liberals who are the real bigots.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

He's falling down the same "ethics in journalism" hole that led to Gamergate.

This pretty much is Gamergate 2.0 already though, I think I saw #pewdiegate or something fly by on Twitter in fact.

 

[StoOgE]

I don't see the issue with PDP putting the videos on his channel in the context of the point he was trying to convey.

If someone in my area was walking around with a placard holding racist comments, I would expect the news media in my area to show the messages (as images or otherwise) as part of their reporting. I wouldn't consider the newspaper to be spreading racist comments but rather reporting on the racist comments spread by others. I understand that by publishing those comments it runs the risk of having the message reach groups predisposed to accept those messages, but I would rather know the unfiltered truth.

For internet drama like this it's not that important, but when it comes to, e.g. alleged significant rape increases in Sweden driven by refugees, I would much rather me and others know about it vs. being kept in the dark.

(Granted, PDP isn't a news outlet, but I don't have an issue with him commenting on things such as this. )

For full disclosure here: I didn't know anything about Fiverr before I started following this. Is there any particular evidence that those who use it are desperately poor? I hadn't considered this line of thought previously. OK, so PDPs video was misguided, but I don't think that justifies labelling him 'racist' and 'a hero to Nazis'.

What if the news paid someone to hold the sign up? Then "reported" on this "news". Because that is what happened here.

PDP paid people and told them exactly what to do. Then was "shocked" and "horrified" but what people would do for money on the internet. Which to be fair, included him making rape jokes up until a year or two ago.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Nah, if those people knew what the sign they were holding up said (and I honestly don't know if they did or not) then yeah, it was really shitty for them to take the money and do it. Same as it would be with a white person. But in any of those scenarios, the person paying them to do it is still being a racist piece of shit! The one person I can say with 100% confidence is being pretty awful in this situation is PDP.

Like, I don't know if you think you're being clever by trying to pivot me onto some weird white guilt tangential to the point I was making, but nothing you said was a defense of PDP or the fact that he managed to roll antisemitism and disdain for the poor all into a single joke.

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

 

[Gastone]

Great video by Pewdiepie.

 

[Ponn]

He's in fact done everything you've said in the two videos he's published. He said he didn't blame YT or Disney, he doesn't claim to be free of blame (he says that in this video). He doesn't ask for the right to not be criticised. He's said multiple times the joke was bad, that he understood that it had offended people and he would learn from it.

If you're not convinced by any of that, then all he can do is repeat himself, which I'm sure he'll continue to do, but if you've decided already that he's not sorry, then what more can be done? It's a super honest question.

Not taking actions contrary to your words like associating and promoting individuals and sites you say you don't support. For someone priding themselves on looking at both sides you sure are leaving some important bits out of your so called logic.

 

[Calm waterfall]

David Duke is a reprehensible piece of shit who endorsed Donald Trump and Donald Trump accepted his endorsement, yet doesn't want us to view that as a referendum on his character.

Sargon is a reprehensible piece of shit who endorsed PDP and PDP accepted his endorsement, yet doesn't want us to view that as a referendum on his character.

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

 

[JackDT]

I couldn't make it through that last video. The whiny entitlement and straw-men were too much.

 

[Nepenthe]

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

So it's okay to accept endorsements from white supremacists if you yourself aren't racist. Glad to know.

 

[Philly40]

I don't see the issue with PDP putting the videos on his channel in the context of the point he was trying to convey.

If someone in my area was walking around with a placard holding racist comments, I would expect the news media in my area to show the messages (as images or otherwise) as part of their reporting. I wouldn't consider the newspaper to be spreading racist comments but rather reporting on the racist comments spread by others. I understand that by publishing those comments it runs the risk of having the message reach groups predisposed to accept those messages, but I would rather know the unfiltered truth.

For internet drama like this it's not that important, but when it comes to, e.g. alleged significant rape increases in Sweden driven by refugees, I would much rather me and others know about it vs. being kept in the dark.

(Granted, PDP isn't a news outlet, but I don't have an issue with him commenting on things such as this. )

For full disclosure here: I didn't know anything about Fiverr before I started following this. Is there any particular evidence that those who use it are desperately poor? I hadn't considered this line of thought previously. OK, so PDPs video was misguided, but I don't think that justifies labelling him 'racist' and 'a hero to Nazis'.

hmmm..

 

[VDenter]

He's falling down the same "ethics in journalism" hole that led to Gamergate.

Never did i think i would see CGP Grey and GamerGate in the same sentence. This might be the biggest reach i have ever seen.His opinion on news in general is well documented at this point.Considering you saw his first tweet you probably know very well what his views are on the subject and that he has nothing in common with GamerGate.

 

[Gator86]

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

You sweet summer child. Please read more books. That is absolutely 100% not how racism works.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

That means nothing. The alt-right basically lives on the internet, that's why most YouTube comments are really disgusting.

Views and likes are what determine whether channels live or die. It doesn't matter who's clicking in that regard.

 

[Nanashrew]

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

So what if he doesn't hold those beliefs. PDP is now an entry point to real racists and fascists because he chooses to double down on this and promote actual fascists and racists in his video. He talks about denouncing these kinds of people but his actions show something else.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

You seek to have difficulties with fairly basic reading comprehension.

One of the things that makes Donald Trump a racist piece of shit accepting the endorsement of racists. Put two and two together here, sweetie. I know you can do it!

 

[ClosingADoor]

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

Well, PDP associates with racist pieces of shit now it seems. So what does that tell about how serious he takes those issues?

 

[aeolist]

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

unless you think it's even possible to know the content of PDP's mind then your question is a pointless deflection. we have to judge people based on their actions, thus people who do racist shit are racist.

 

[boujeejamboree]

I'm not going to pick a side here, because this is a pretty toxic discussion no matter the view point.

At this point, I'm just curious if PDP realizes he doesn't need YouTube and could take this opportunity to create a rival service as a place for the creators and their fans. He'd make more money, and he could pose a considerable threat.

That being said, I don't endorse or even like PDP. I just hadn't realized the pull he had before this whole debacle.

 

[jtb]

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

Ah, so racism is now something that no one can ever be accused of. Lovely.

unless you think it's even possible to know the content of PDP's mind then your question is a pointless deflection. we have to judge people based on their actions, thus people who do racist shit are racist.

Exactly. I don't give a shit what PDP (or anyone else) truly "believes" in their "heart." Judge them by their actions.

Shifting the grounds of debate to how many racist bones someone has in their body is a clever diversion, but irrelevant.

 

[APF]

From the one semi-reliable article I could find, it suggested Fritz was technically Jewish (mother's side).

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Pretending you are "above" both sides of a discussion to make yourself feel superior while simultaneously revealing that you don't understand what's being argued is bad, yes.

I don't feel superior, I feel dispirited and exhausted - maybe that's the same thing? If standing in front a grey wall and pointing out that it's grey while the guy to my left is saying it's black and the guy to my right is saying it's white, I don't think it's a question of superiority so much as accuracy.

If a four person turns up and says actually it's a slate grey and I go - 'ah, so it is,' while the other two turn around and call him a superior self-righteous asshole who doesn't know what he's talking about, I think I know who I prefer to paint my house.

 

[Jebusman]

Donald Trump is a racist piece of shit. PDP is not therefor it´s idiotic to compare.

This post is really something.

We don't determine how to judge people on a sliding scale of whether or not they are better or worse than someone else.

PDP can be a shitty person and do shitty things and passively encourage and link to racist, shitty views, while not being as shitty as Trump.

 

[MrJoobJoob]

Anybody read the actual WSJ article? I don't have an account so I could only watch the video they provided, and it was tame to say the least. Doesn't argue he's a nazi, didn't label him an antisemite or fascist. This seems like an overreaction to a strawman.

 

[faridmon]

Yeah, dropping this guy now (not that I was a subscriber)

I think he is losing it, and by being obsessed by the whole thing will just make his persona go closer to some dangerous territory.

He needs to just move on, or else, he won't help himself being associated with those racist bunch.

 

[Fisty]

hmmm..

"alleged"...

How bout "fabricated"

 

[StoOgE]

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

I mean, he paid people to hold up an anti-Semetic sign. What are we supposed to take from that?

Like, if I paid someone to go around yelling at women that they are fat and should lose weight, what would that say? I mean, I wasn't the one *doing* the thing, so surely you couldn't possibly imply that I was a misogynist, I was simply trying to show what someone would do for money.

The fact that my mind "went there" with a horribly misogynistic action might heavily imply that I hold a certain comfort level with misogyny to the point that I find it an acceptable grounds for which to tell "jokes".

Then you look at who PDP is willing to associate with, and who his friends are willing to associate with. And you look back at his general comfort level around the periphery of racism and with using Nazi imagery.. and you look at his past use of Rape jokes for humor. and joking about hurting women who don't make him sandwhiches correctly.

I don't know what is in PDPs heart, but I know that he is willing to take his persona places that I would be very uncomfortable going for money.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Ah, so racism is now something that no one can ever be accused of. Lovely.



Exactly. I don't give a shit what PDP (or anyone else) truly "believes" in their "heart." Judge them by their actions.

I'd love to know how you got that from what I said. I mean, just out of interest, what your competing definition?

 

[APF]

Anybody read the actual WSJ article? I don't have an account so I could only watch the video they provided, and it was tame to say the least. Doesn't argue he's a nazi, didn't label him an antisemite or fascist. This seems like an overreaction to a strawman.

I've been asking people for specifics re what they feel was unfair or taken out of context, and haven't been given anything strong enough to warrant the reaction it's been getting.

 

[Iksenpets]

It's not a weird angle, it's to simply ask why you don't hold them to the same account. In my argument I asked how you'd feel about PDP holding up a racist sign he didn't understand was racist.

Incidentally, racism isn't defined as asking people to hold up a banner with something you know to be genuinely inflammatory on it (to demonstrate a point), it's holding a prejudice against someone on the basis solely of their race. Do you believe PDP holds this prejudice? DO you believe he was hoping to endorse or promulgate the message printed on the sign?

I didn't hold them to the same account because they're not the ones whose names are in the title of this thread. They're not the ones we're talking about here. And there's no situation where they're more morally culpable than the person who's instigating them to do it.

And of Pewdiepie held up a sign he didn't know the meaning of, then no, he hasn't done anything wrong, but that's such an outlandish hypothetical completely divorced from the situation we're discussing that I don't know why you brought it up.

And as for his beliefs, I don't know. I only know what he did. Either he honestly wants to spread antisemitism (probably not) or he considers it to be a fun, laughing matter. Either way, he put the words out there, where they serve to numb people to the sight of hate and provide motivation to actual antisemites. I don't really care about your attempts to play semantics around the word "racist" because regardless of whether or not he's a racist, he committed a racist act.

 

[sasliquid]

I'm sure there is some valid criticism of how the WSJ handled this...

But I don't think I'm gonna listen to PDP after all this and him linking Sargon, a genuine waste of matter

 

[DirgeExtinction]

It seems that by associating yourself with Alt-Right,racist, gamergaters, you're essentially proving WSJ right in calling you out.

 

[jtb]

I'd love to know how you got that from what I said. I mean, just out of interest, what your competing definition?

I just said it: judge people by their actions, not what they believe. Whether PDP actually believes all jews deserve to die is irrelevant and completely unprovable.