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[i HeaR MusiC]

This video shows that there is no manufactoring problem, it's a hardware design issue. All left joycons have the same problem. Those who don't experience the problems just have less bluetooth/wifi interference.

I couldn't notice this problem until I moved the Switch closer to the router, wore an Apple Watch and held the left joycon behind my back while covering it with my hand. But it was there. Yet I first claimed that mine was 100% faultless... It's the same for everyone.

I guess they missed it because their QC took place where they had less problems with bluetooth/wifi interference.

How do they fix this?
They can't expect people to do a DIY fix.
They can't expect people to close down all their wifi/bluetooth equipment.
I think they need to do a total left joycon recall and replace it with an official fix.

I have tons of bluetooth and wireless devices(speakers,router,ps4,cellphone,ipad) directly next to my Switch and I still have zero issues. I've tried everything to recreate the problem and I cant even get a slight desync.

 

[Sesuadra]

I and two friends don't have any issues at all...so it would be really strange if it was a hardware related problem.

I have tons of bluetooth and wireless devices(speakers,router,ps4,cellphone,ipad) directly next to my Switch and I still have zero issues. I've tried everything to recreate the problem and I cant even get a slight desync.

same here. soundbar with bluetooth subwoofer is 5 cm away from the switch, my airport extreme with two wifi networks one 2.4ghz and one 5ghz is really close..then there is my tv with wifi, ps4, ps3, xbox one and 4 iOS devices..

 

[EloquentM]

The random incidence of it all could be explained by the wireless environment. A more scientific test with plenty of samples could verify this issue (in combination to the weaker signal from this antenna).

i could see this being the case. A generally weak signal with other interference. I will say that my switch is directly next to my router though and I haven't had an issue. If you put the controller behind your back (but let's not forget that Bluetooth is greatly dampened through human bodies). + a weak signal + proximity that's definitely going to cause an issue, but at that point is this necessarily a design issue? Normal obstruction and length is definitely a problem that I think Nintendo needs to tackle with this if it is indeed a high percentage.

 

[always crazy bacon]

Why is that. Chances are QC certainly caught this. It just wasn't seen as a big enough issue to change the layout/molds or delay the release. How is that going off the deep end?

You've got to consider the testing environment, typically this will be on an engineers desk sitting close to the system. Engineers typically, and I'm assuming at Chinese factory level don't try to but things in challenging situations, they get a great light on the test jig and it's a pass.

Think back the the GBA dark screen, how did that pass? I know that's because all the testing was done under office florescent lighting where you can't see the problem. Same thing here, the testing environment is not real life situation testing.

 

[Fredrik]

I have tons of bluetooth and wireless devices(speakers,router,ps4,cellphone,ipad) directly next to my Switch and I still have zero issues. I've tried everything to recreate the problem and I cant even get a slight desync.

Same for me, wifi gear everywhere. Mine worked flawlessly up to 20 feet which was the furthest away I could go. Left joycon behind my back, covered with my hand. Zero issues. I even stood beside a big aquarium which was supposed to make the issue worse too.

Yet I could eventually replicate the problem with some effort like I mentioned, at about 6 feet it started desyncing. I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what's causing it, it's likely the sum of all things and I guess some people are just unfortunate to live in an even more wifi/bluetooth crowded place.

 

[Leopold]

If the Xbox brand was able to survive a defect that plagued many revisions and was not a minor, but a major problem that killed the videogame, I am sure that Nintendo can pull it off.

 

[Mohonky]

Some people may be having issues because of the way they hold the controller. It would easy to cover it with larger hands that wrap around the controller more.

I dont think this is going to be a swamping issue of too many devices, just poor placement of the antennas.

 

[mrklaw]

I would guess the plastic grips might help by moving your watery fingers slightly further away from the main controller?

Would it be possible to scientifically test the signal strength coming from both of these?

 

[Fredrik]

If the Xbox brand was able to survive a defect that plagued many revisions and was not a minor, but a major problem that killed the videogame, I am sure that Nintendo can pull it off.

For most people it's not going to be a real world problem even if they can replicate it by doing certain things. But for some people it will make it almost unusable. I honestly think Nintendo need to do a total left joycon recall and replace them with an official fix. It'll be costy but they have the cash to do it. With no fix it'll hurt the brand.

 

[tuxfool]

Some people may be having issues because of the way they hold the controller. It would easy to cover it with larger hands that wrap around the controller more.

I dont think this is going to be a swamping issue of too many devices, just poor placement of the antennas.

The patch antenna of the right joycon seems perfectly fine, it is just the one printed on the PCB that is problematic.

 

[JordanKZ]

I'm not having any issues myself, but the idea that the antenna is printed onto the PCB is real, real bad. I don't expect Nintendo to issue a recall, but they'll probably do a revision within the next year.

 

[sleepnaught]

Crazy that people are having this issue. Not a manufacturer defect, though? I'm literally testing my left joycon 30 feet away through a TV by a wifi router , 2 walls with another TV, and a refrigerator, with the joycon behind my back facing down. Having no issues whatsoever even with all that. So bizarre.

 

[matrix-cat]

That's pretty much what I figured. I mean, these things all came off the same production line, and this seems much more widespread than your average 1-2% failure rate. I imagine it'll be something like the 360's RROD issues, where the thing was just poorly designed in the first place. Some people will never experience issues, but a whole hell of a lot will, and hopefully Nintendo will come out and do the right thing.

 

[Enkidu]

The antenna in the right Joy-Con looks quite interesting, one would have to investigate it further to see how it works exactly. Regardless, it seems to work well so that's not a problem. The placement of that antenna seems quite wise, as it is away from the hand as much as possible.

For the left antenna it is clearly an IFA printed into the board (and there is nothing inherently bad about having the antenna printed on the PCB). It looks a bit odd in that it has a very large ground loop which makes it look a bit short as well, but without hooking it up to a VNA there is no way of telling if this is correct. The metal from the analog stick casing is probably not a huge problem (it might be the reason they have such a large ground loop to get the matching right actually), but the placement of the antenna seems quite bad as you will almost always have a finger right over it, unlike for the right Joy-Con. This could make it quite tricky to get the matching correct since the fingers will detune differently for every person holding it. It's also quite an odd matching network topology that they are using, and it's not really recommended to have it placed so far from the antenna. I wonder if this matching is actually for the radio and not for the antenna? Single band PIFAs can often be tuned very well without any matching components so that could be the reason.

It seems that Nintendo attempted to save some cost on the antenna in the left Joy-Con by not having a separate antenna PCB since they could fit one on the main board here. Note that it might still be possible to "fix" the issues people are having by simply increasing the output power, even if an unfortunate antenna concept is the main cause.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I 100% guarantee this was tested in QC. Management ignored it.

Let's see how they deal with it. I don't understand the logic when companies do these things

It's an issue with the strength of the Bluetooth signal, especially from the left joycon. The signal is easily obstructed/interfered with and if the Switch doesn't receive a signal for a few seconds, it assumes one of the controllers has disconnected and asks you to reconnect.

Can they increase the signal with a patch? Can the firmware of the joycons be updated?

 

[Ushojax]

It's an issue with the strength of the Bluetooth signal, especially from the left joycon. The signal is easily obstructed/interfered with and if the Switch doesn't receive a signal for a few seconds, it assumes one of the controllers has disconnected and asks you to reconnect.

If I rest the joycon against my body/sofa it will quickly start cutting out the signal.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Still better to wait it out regardless. High price, lack of games, and questionable build quality and missing features.

Not the best opening for a new console coming off Wii U.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

For most people it's not going to be a real world problem even if they can replicate it by doing certain things. But for some people it will make it almost unusable. I honestly think Nintendo need to do a total left joycon recall and replace them with an official fix. It'll be costy but they have the cash to do it. With no fix it'll hurt the brand.

The thing is that it deters people from buying the console. I'm one of those people who doesn't want to buy it because I don't want to deal with issues and I'm assuming they will update the console quietly and fix them soon enough.

 

[KingBroly]

I've had some issues when the battery's at like...half capacity. But nothing beyond that.

 

[spekkeh]

But then everyone would have the same issue, since it's printed on the PCB. Which is not the case. Extending it will probably fix it, but it's probably not the real issue here.

The left joycon simply has less signal strength due to the design, that's the real issue. It's strong enough to play comfortably three meters away (I have no issues), so the next problem becomes one of interference.

Barring actual defective units, like always when you have a bad signal, it helps to mitigate it. I've seen people say they have their dock behind the TV, or their router sat blaring full strength right next to the dock. Apparently the left joycon is not strong enough to consistently power through these interferences. So it help shuffling things around a bit. I have a baby monitor that I sometimes need to move to the other side of the room if my internet goes down. It happens.

 

[Moneal]

Let's see how they deal with it. I don't understand the logic when companies do these things

They guess how many customers would be affected by the problem and the cost of returns compared to the cost to fix the issue. If the cost to fix the issue is more than the cost of returns, they ignore the issue. If the cost of returns is higher they fix the issue. If the issue becomes more widespread than they assumed, they issue a recall. its pretty simple.

 

[ryan299]

Everybody is holding it wrong. duh

 

[Fredrik]

The left joycon simply has less signal strength due to the design, that's the real issue. It's strong enough to play comfortably three meters away (I have no issues), so the next problem becomes one of interference.

Barring actual defective units, like always when you have a bad signal, it helps to mitigate it. I've seen people say they have their dock behind the TV, or their router sat blaring full strength right next to the dock. Apparently the left joycon is not strong enough to consistently power through these interferences. So it help shuffling things around a bit. I have a baby monitor that I sometimes need to move to the other side of the room if my internet goes down. It happens.

Yup bluetooth/wifi interference isn't unheard of. I have a dryer cabinet which is almost completely killing my wifi in my whole house. It might be less common for one device to have issues in an environment where other devices all work properly.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

I don't see this being the case. The software aspects are certainly true, because those are easy to improve on over time. Knowingly pushing out faulty hardware would be a costly mistake.

Nintendo's really good at making costly mistakes.

 

[Kebiinu]

No issues here. Seems like I'm one of the lucky few who has a 'perfect' Switch. I hope Nintendo addresses these issues, though. If not a recall, then a revision at the very least. Seems too widespread to ignore.

 

[Salty Rice]

Really have no issues.

I tried even the goofy and dumb holding the controllers behind your back and they still work flawless.

 

[TI82]

Am I the only one who hasn't had this problem whatsoever? I dunno, it seems like people are blowing it out of proportion but maybe I'm wrong.

Edit: Also no scratches, maybe I'm B-Lessed

 

[Donniewahlberg]

No issues here. Seems like I'm one of the lucky few who has a 'perfect' Switch. I hope Nintendo addresses these issues, though. If not a recall, then a revision at the very least. Seems too widespread to ignore.

Yea, thankfully in the same boat. I'm actually storing mine's away until summer as a present for my family, will give it to them once more games have dropped, but reading all the stuff on gaf about controller disconnects, screen scratching, dead pixels, broken stand hinges and so on, made me bust it open in secret last night just to check I don't have a really nice looking brick haha. Literally no issues though, I couldn't even get far enough away to replicate the joycon disconnect thing (I went one end of the room to the very other with it behind my back). There's no doubt folks are having issues with this console, so I'm pretty thankful everything seems golden.

 

[RoadHazard]

I luckily haven't had any issues yet, but then again I've never sat more than a few feet away. Need dat Zelda immersion on my tiny 40" TV.

 

[Future]

No issues here. Seems like I'm one of the lucky few who has a 'perfect' Switch. I hope Nintendo addresses these issues, though. If not a recall, then a revision at the very least. Seems too widespread to ignore.

Me too. Although I play in optimal conditions on a desk monitor. Always attached to the grip when docked. No pro controller

 

[lantus]

What is the likelihood of Nintendo doing something as drastic as some people think like recalling controllers? I'm not optimistic about it.

 

[Yekshemesh]

Could it be something that goes wrong in the manufacturing? I mean, there is lots and lots of people without any kind of problems with their joycon.

But luckily all of the Switch parts are quite easy to open, so DIY fixes shouldn't be too hard. So, there's a silver lining...

That silver lining means you also void any warranty.

 

[always crazy bacon]

Let's see how they deal with it. I don't understand the logic when companies do these things

I do, sales and marketing say this is the release date don't miss it. Technical say it's not ready, there's problems. CEO downplays the issues raised and overrides it only to come back and blame technical when the public finds the issues technical told the company about. Sales, marketing and CEO take no responsibility and blame technical. Every time, like fucking clockwork.

 

[spekkeh]

No issues here. Seems like I'm one of the lucky few who has a 'perfect' Switch.

There's this notion going round that Nintendo doesn't do any QC because they're shit hardware makers, which conveniently ignores that Nintendo has the best trackrecord when it comes to sturdy devices with little defects of, well, practically the whole tech industry and is certainly much better than the competition in this regard.

I don't want to belittle anyone's legitimate grievances, because it is a problem, but the more plausible reasoning is that the majority of people who have no issues are busy playing and not commenting.

 

[old manatee]

It's going to take forever for the dodgy ones to filter out of the retail channels isn't it. This is going to plague the system for a while.

Yeah, I wanted to wait until the fall to buy one so that there would be more games out, but this and the screen scratching has me waiting until a hardware revision.

 

[SuperSah]

My controllers are seemingly unaffected. I have tried my best to disrupt signal to no avail.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Welp, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just wait on an inevitable revision.

 

[pswii60]

I don't see how this couldn't have been picked up in testing. I've only had my Switch since Saturday and it's happened 10 times at least, where I just have no control with the left controller and then it comes back again. Sometimes it means that Link just keeps walking in a certain direction, it's like it locks up completely.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't see this being the case. The software aspects are certainly true, because those are easy to improve on over time. Knowingly pushing out faulty hardware would be a costly mistake.

Not if you bank on an audience so hungry to get your next Zelda and Mario games, your hardcore buyers, which may willingly jump through hoops to sort the problems out themselves ("bad situation, but I am happy I own a Pro Controller") while they hope the number of defective units is small and the complaints drown in the launch window frenzy and before not too long they can start addressing the problem (maybe even by selling an updated/improved controller for a small premium)...

Let's see if their gamble on their core audience pays off...

 

[bennibop]

My left Joycon disconnects constantly even when in the grip and I am sitting about 6 foot away from the TV. This has to be the worst piece of hardware I have ever used (think the idea is great but execution poor.)

Have also had problems with WiFi in general.

Am so Pissed off but don't know what to do, games are near unplayable.

 

[spekkeh]

Mine left Joycon disconnects constantly even when in the grip and I am sitting about 6 foot away from the TV. This has to be the worst piece of hardware I have ever used (think the idea is great but execution poor.)

Have also had problems with WiFi in general.

Am so Pissed off but don't know what to do, games are near unplayable.

Did you try moving around your devices? Where's the router?

 

[AzaK]

Mine left Joycon disconnects constantly even when in the grip and I am sitting about 6 foot away from the TV. This has to be the worst piece of hardware I have ever used (think the idea is great but execution poor.)

Have also had problems with WiFi in general.

Am so Pissed off but don't know what to do, games are near unplayable.

Can't you just take it back?

 

[bennibop]

Can't you just take it back?

I have moved everything around, turned off routers etc. I think it might be a neighbours router causing the issue.

I am going to give it a couple more days and take back if I can't resolve. Have never had issues like this with any hardware at launch.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There's this notion going round that Nintendo doesn't do any QC because they're shit hardware makers, which conveniently ignores that Nintendo has the best trackrecord when it comes to sturdy devices with little defects of, well, practically the whole tech industry and is certainly much better than the competition in this regard.

I don't want to belittle anyone's legitimate grievances, because it is a problem, but the more plausible reasoning is that the majority of people who have no issues are busy playing and not commenting.

So you agree that Nintendo is aware of potential failure rates then . This is not a matter of plausible reasoning or not... some hungry fans find any way to spend time playing Zelda and nobody said this problem affect ALL users, but even a small percentage of them may be a bad big issue worthy of a recall. As you said it yourself, Nintendo does invest heavily in QA and QC, so it is likely they know exactly how many failing units there could be and it is also evident that the entire console has been rushed to meet the March deadline.

 

[Sylfurd]

I had to put the dock in front of my TV, occluding a part of the screen, and I still have strong desync at 7 - 8 feet with the left joycon when playing in my couch !

I have no obstacle between me and the switch, but if my knee or my blanket is a bit between the joycon and the switch, it becomes unplayable ...

 

[Dueck]

How could they miss this?

Rushing a product to market. Nintendo has a number of unconditional supporters that condone this sort of thing, so they get away with it to an extent... It'll probably be fixed at some point once they know why it's happening (on their own, or via this). The problem with acknowledging a hardware error and revising it is that they sort of owe everyone that got a dud the ability to switch it for a fully functional replacement. And that sounds like it's everyone.

When it was the NX, I crossed my fingers for a GameCube 2. One day...

 

[spekkeh]

So you agree that Nintendo is aware of potential failure rates then . This is not a matter of plausible reasoning or not... some hungry fans find any way to spend time playing Zelda and nobody said this problem affect ALL users, but even a small percentage of them may be a bad big issue worthy of a recall. As you said it yourself, Nintendo does invest heavily in QA and QC, so it is likely they know exactly how many failing units there could be and it is also evident that the entire console has been rushed to meet the March deadline.

That's assuming the units are failing. But I don't think that's what this thread purports.

I agree on the rushed system though.

 

[Panajev2001a]

My left Joycon disconnects constantly even when in the grip and I am sitting about 6 foot away from the TV. This has to be the worst piece of hardware I have ever used (think the idea is great but execution poor.)

Have also had problems with WiFi in general.

Am so Pissed off but don't know what to do, games are near unplayable.

It is the device with the worst WiFi connection amongst all our WiFi enabled devices. It is four-five feet away from a 5 GHz WiFi router and it picks up 2 bars out of 3 as well as half the bandwidth measured on all other devices, PS4 Pro included .

Also it's QoS configuration, balancing active data request vs background ones, must suck a bit... I was downloading some eShop games in the background and trying to watch some of the News page Videos and they stutter super badly... automatic buffering or resolution scaling not working or not being automatic at all... very very poor experience.

 

[Enkidu]

Looking at the pictures a bit more, that soldering point on the antenna trace does not look ideal:

Just speculating a bit, but the fact that some people are having issues and others don't, suggests that it might be a manufacturing issue which could be related to this soldering. It looks hand soldered so it's possible that some Joy-Cons have a bad solder where the antenna trace is not well connected. It seems unlikely, but anything is possible.

Also, the "impedance matching" components do in fact appear to be for the radio and not for the antenna. Since there is no bandpass filter component, this appears to be an LC bandpass filter implemented using discrete components. Looking up the datasheet for the Broadcom/Cypress chip used, it does require extra filtering to get rid of harmonics from the transmitter, so that is likely what those components do (aside from the fact that you want to filter out out-of-band signals that could saturate the receiver anyway). Also, the chip is capable of output power of 9/12dBm depending on the required datarate, compared to the 4dBm that the Joy-Con is certified for.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's assuming the units are failing. But I don't think that's what this thread purports.

I agree on the rushed system though.

This thread, the scratchy and bent dock thread, etc... do paint a picture of poor tolerances, rushing the product to market (which plays really dangerously with the bad tolerances bit), and company historic willingness on leaning on their hardcore fanbase (see increasing 3DS launch price after the initial excited response)...