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[KingSnake]

New findings:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...h-of-the-wild-uses-dynamic-resolution-scaling

First up, let's talk metrics. Getting a firm lock on this is challenging owing to the fact that right now, we can't grab direct feed video from the Switch in handheld mode, but based on screenshot dumps, we're pretty confident that when the game hits system limits, resolution drops to 90 per cent on both axes - so the portable mode dips to 1152x648. This represents 81 per cent of native 720p in total.

On the face of it, the utilisation of a dynamic framebuffer may explain how the portable mode runs more smoothly. However, further investigation confirms that the same scaling tech is utilised when Zelda is docked as well, with a native pixel-count of 1440x810 at stress points, dropping down from its usual 1600x900. Tellingly, this is also a 90 per cent scaling on both X and Y axes, just like the handheld scaling implementation.

The comparatively small bump in memory bandwidth between mobile and docked configuration remains our best theory here. Undocked, Switch runs its LPDD4 modules at 1331MHz, rising to 1600MHz when plugged into the dock. That's only a 20 per cent increase in bandwidth to sustain a 56 per cent uplift in resolution. Meanwhile, both CPU and GPU are tapping into that same pool of bandwidth, possibly causing contention issues.

yes, you've guessed it - the same scaling technology is also deployed on the last-gen version of Zelda as well. We used Kakariko Village here as an established testing point where performance is poor in order to confirm this. Wii U matches Switch's portable profile, offering up a 1152x648 resolution in these areas.

In conclusion both in docked mode and handheld mode and also the Wii U version drop the resolution to 90% on both axes when the game is pushing the limits.

Also, regarding the Wi-Fi fix:

In the meantime, we've seen this intriguing report about WiFi potentially impacting Switch performance. While this could possibly affect some users, we've quickly retested a few Switch titles in flight mode and we're finding that this has no impact on our existing results.

 

[Always-honest]

Drops TO 90%. Interesting. That's a small bit but the game probably needed it on the hardware available.

Is this the first time dynamic resolution is mentioned for Zelda BotW? I guess nobody noticed.

 

[ElTorro]

Interesting. Wonder if they could get rid of the performance issues simply by making the dynamic resolution more aggressive. A drop to 90% 81% isn't a lot.

 

[daxy]

Huh, and here I thought I must've been going mad when I thought that certain areas looked more crisp than others.

I suppose that the GPU overhead fix mentioned in relation to FAST RMX could also then improve performance for BotW as the bug is related to dynamic resolution scaling performance.

 

[KingSnake]

Drops TO 90%.

Thanks, fixed.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Interesting. Wonder if they could get rid of the performance issues simply by making the dynamic resolution more aggressive. A drop to 90% isn't a lot.

Pretty sure there is also a CPU/bandwith bottleneck.

 

[-shadow-]

I honestly hadn't noticed it. Wonder why the framerate still stutters at times of it can just drop the resolution at any given moment.

 

[gamerforever]

I thought the game didn't even look HD in some cases on the Wii U - disappointing to say the least. It doesn't fill me with joy that the Switch version isn't even full hd!

 

[Equanimity]

The frame-rate would drop even more if it wasn't for the dynamic scaling.

I hope Nintendo does something other than dyanimc-res to fix some of those nasty frame drops.

 

[ElTorro]

Pretty sure there is also a CPU/bandwith bottleneck.

Dropping resolution also frees memory bandwidth. I doubt that the CPU itself is a major bottleneck since its clock speeds are the same in portable and docked mode.

 

[mxgt]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of this, I find it really noticeable on the Wii-U when things get really blurry and low-res. Mainly in towns.

 

[ViciousDS]

Drops TO 90%. Interesting. That's a small bit but the game probably needed it on the hardware available.

Is this the first time dynamic resolution is mentioned for Zelda BotW? I guess nobody noticed.

not easy to notice on a 6 inch screen......docked though......it probably happens when the framerate tanks/locks to the 20's possibly due to demand? Still an amazing looking game on a 55 inch 4k TV though.....the art style still scales very, very well.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

Is this kind of stuff ever actually noticeable to the average user. I've played a lot of botw and I had no idea it was doing any kind of resolution scaling.

 

[R00bot]

Wow, didn't notice this at all, although 90% scaling is a tiny difference.

 

[z0m3le]

Would the wifi issue really be solved this way? did they not see an improvement in Fast RMX because that developer said there would be one and they would probably know.

My thinking behind this is software gating the wifi might not actually fix whatever issue they are having with the firmware itself.

 

[Lucifon]

Are the Switch's screenshots (using the screenshot button) taking a shot of the game rendering at 720p or something? I've noticed they always look significantly worse than the Zelda I'm seeing on my TV. Jaggier ,etc.

 

[Moppeh]

Drops TO 90%. Interesting. That's a small bit but the game probably needed it on the hardware available.

Is this the first time dynamic resolution is mentioned for Zelda BotW? I guess nobody noticed.

Brad Shoemaker of Giant Bomb brought it up in a recent video. He didn't say anything concrete but he noticed a very poor resolution lamp post and was wondering if they used dynamic resolution scaling.

 

[KingSnake]

Dropping resolution also frees memory bandwidth. I doubt that the CPU itself is a major bottleneck since its clock speeds are the same in portable and docked mode.

Yes, but the drop in docked mode seems to not be enough to solve the RAM bottleneck under stress. This is what also DF speculates in the article.

 

[leng jai]

What's the point of having a dynamic resolution if the game still drops frames frequently?

 

[Twookie]

Damn I did not notice this at all!

What's the point of having a dynamic resolution if the game still drops frames frequently?

Would be even worse without it, probs

 

[Kenzodielocke]

What's the point of having a dynamic resolution if the game still drops frames frequently?

It would drop frames even more without it?

 

[mrklaw]

640p

 

[HotHamBoy]

Considering this is a launch game originally built for older hardware and it STILL has performance issues despite these concessions, I'm pretty disappointed with Nintendo's choices for speccing out the Switch.

It would be one thing if this was just their handheld ... but it's not.

So four more years of performance issues, especially for multiplats. This on top of how gimped joycons are if portable mode is your main draw.

 

[z0m3le]

Yes, but the drop in docked mode seems to not be enough to solve the RAM bottleneck under stress. This is what also DF speculates in the article.

If it is a ram issue. I could also see it simply being a GPU issue as the game wasn't optimized much for the Switch, we are seeing other games taking much more advantage of the hardware, Fast RMX being the big elephant in the room which doesn't need to hide behind half resolutions and can run the full 60fps with even 4 players while Wii U runs half resolution with dynamic resolution active and 30fps in 4 players... all at around a quarter resolution.

 

[KingSnake]

Would the wifi issue really be solved this way? did they not see an improvement in Fast RMX because that developer said there would be one and they would probably know.

My thinking behind this is software gating the wifi might not actually fix whatever issue they are having with the firmware itself.

Didn't some developers find the WiFi issue because they deactivated WiFi in one instance? I remember reading it somewhere (a Nintendosomething site).

 

[GhostTrick]

Slow ram being a problem ?

 

[Portugeezer]

Yeah I have noticed the slightly softer image at times in handheld mode, thought it was maybe some DOF bug because they didn't mention it before, but now I guess it must be the resolution scaling.

 

[daxy]

If it is a ram issue. I could also see it simply being a GPU issue as the game wasn't optimized much for the Switch, we are seeing other games taking much more advantage of the hardware, Fast RMX being the big elephant in the room which doesn't need to hide behind half resolutions and can run the full 60fps with even 4 players while Wii U runs half resolution with dynamic resolution active and 30fps in 4 players... all at around a quarter resolution.

Uhh, FAST RMX also dynamically scales its resolution.

 

[ElTorro]

Yes, but the drop in docked mode seems to not be enough to solve the RAM bottleneck under stress. This is what also DF speculates in the article.

Yes, but my point is that it might be enough if they just allow the resolution in docked mode to drop deeper than it currently does.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Still going to need a docked 30 by April 28. It won't happen lol.

 

[KingSnake]

Yes, but my point is that it might be enough if they just allow the resolution in docked mode to drop deeper than it currently does.

For sure.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Every time we hear reports of this kind, with the Switch already struggling with games like this, really makes me wish Nintendo had spent the money they used on HD rumble, IR sensors and the like on beefing up those specs instead.

 

[CmdBash]

Makes sense, it bothered me a bit how the IQ in some areas looked quite clean and others were blurry.

 

[frankie_baby]

I thought the handheld mode ran using the boost mode configuration which didnt they say runs the RAM at the same memory bandwidth as docked?

 

[Doopliss]

I pointed this out last week in the official thread but nobody cared ;_;

Despite its small size I think it's pretty obvious when the game switches from the screen's native resolution to an upscaled one.

 

[Donnie]

The comparatively small bump in memory bandwidth between mobile and docked configuration remains our best theory here. Undocked, Switch runs its LPDD4 modules at 1331MHz, rising to 1600MHz when plugged into the dock. That's only a 20 per cent increase in bandwidth to sustain a 56 per cent uplift in resolution. Meanwhile, both CPU and GPU are tapping into that same pool of bandwidth, possibly causing contention issues.

Worth noting that increasing resolution by 56% would not increase bandwidth usage from main memory by anywhere near 56%.

 

[KingSnake]

If it is a ram issue. I could also see it simply being a GPU issue as the game wasn't optimized much for the Switch, we are seeing other games taking much more advantage of the hardware, Fast RMX being the big elephant in the room which doesn't need to hide behind half resolutions and can run the full 60fps with even 4 players while Wii U runs half resolution with dynamic resolution active and 30fps in 4 players... all at around a quarter resolution.

Fast RMX:

On Switch, Fast RMX ditches the temporal upscaling technique entirely and instead makes the jump to an adaptive resolution feature, where the game dynamically adjusts rendering resolution based on GPU load.

In docked mode, the game jumps regularly between 900p and 1080p - or even lower in very select circumstances - while portable mode drops the resolution ceiling to 720p where minor drops in pixel-count can also occur, mostly in pre-race fly-bys

 

[LordKano]

Every time we hear reports of this kind, with the Switch already struggling with games like this, really makes me wish Nintendo had spent the money they used on HD rumble, IR sensors and the like on beefing up those specs instead.

That's not how it works. Switch could hardly be more powerful at that price and with that core hardware.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Why didn't Nintendo make the dock a boost box?

So many missed opportunities with Switch.

That's not how it works. Switch could hardly be more powerful at that price and with that core hardware.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[KingSnake]

Worth noting that increasing resolution by 56% would not increase bandwidth usage from main memory by anywhere near 56%.

You're assuming that the bandwidth usage is maxed out in the handheld mode which is most likely not the case. Especially considering our old discussion about how the power draw increases dramatically with the used bandwidth.

 

[z0m3le]

Uhh, FAST RMX also dynamically scales its resolution.

yes but it runs a 1920x1080p image and dynamic scales to 900p, while Wii U uses a 640x720p image and dynamically scales that (instead of a 1280x720p image and has massive graphical improvements, there is a digital foundry video on it from last week, really interesting video

Fast RMX:

 

[FDC1]

Wow, didn't notice this at all, although 90% scaling is a tiny difference.

It's 19% less pixels, it's not so tiny.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Why didn't Nintendo make the dock a boost box?

So many missed opportunities with Switch.



Jack of all trades, master of none.

So they could sell it to use later down the road silly.

 

[jacobeid]

They should expand this to keep a steady framerate.

 

[mrklaw]

Considering this is a launch game originally built for older hardware and it STILL has performance issues despite these concessions, I'm pretty disappointed with Nintendo's choices for speccing out the Switch.

It would be one thing if this was just their handheld ... but it's not.

So four more years of performance issues, especially for multiplats. This on top of how gimped joycons are if portable mode is your main draw.

Considering this is a launch game and possibly developed with a limited timescale on hardware and OS coming in hot, based on a game from a different architecture...I think it isn't unexpected to have some issues

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Why didn't Nintendo make the dock a boost box?

So many missed opportunities with Switch.

Probably would've been more expensive. People already scoffed at the Switch's $299 price point. I doubt potential customers would pay any more than that.

Do a lot of Nintendo first party games use dynamic resolution? Or is BotW one of the few?

 

[Guymelef]

Must be a bottleneck somewhere in this hardware.

 

[daxy]

yes but it runs a 1920x1080p image and dynamic scales to 900p, while Wii U uses a 640x720p image and dynamically scales that (instead of a 1280x720p image and has massive graphical improvements, there is a digital foundry video on it from last week, really interesting video

Oh, I see what you mean now. Gotcha.

 

[AmyS]

So technically, Zelda Breath of the Wild is *sometimes* running sub-HD (below native 720p).

That's something all by itself.

Edit:

Only on the Wii U and on the Switch in portable mode.

Ah yeah that's right.

 

[MDave]

Drops TO 90%. Interesting. That's a small bit but the game probably needed it on the hardware available.

Is this the first time dynamic resolution is mentioned for Zelda BotW? I guess nobody noticed.

I noticed and posted about it, but no one else noticed I guess.