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The Last of Us 2 needs to transition to full RPG gameplay
- Thread starter HeelPower
- Start date
I wouldn't mind it in certain aspects such as making crafting and other elements more complex and varied. There are already some RPG mechanics in the game in terms of leveling up Joel's different attributes, just take that to the next step for the sequel but don't go all out changing the general idea behind the gameplay. If anything I felt the gameplay served the story very well and just needs to evolve with everything else, not try to branch into something totally different. I don't think I'd even mind some dialogue choices but wouldn't want multiple endings for example.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I'm not a fan of TLOU at all but I might enjoy a real RPG set in that world.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Yes! Let's give The Last of Us, one of the greatest games of all time, the holy trinity of gameplay elements:
- RPG
- Open World
- First Person
As a bonus, let's throw in "Soulsborne combat."
- RPG
- Open World
- First Person
As a bonus, let's throw in "Soulsborne combat."
Obviously, this is all extreme sarcasm. I know you put effort into your post, OP, but no... Just... No.
Last of us would probably benefir if It could be a little more open but not so open that we could get lost on.
But being RPG? Hell no, it's suppose to try to be a survival horror and not a farming game with boring dialogue, they need to focus on the narrative and some gameplay aspects and the game will be spectacular as ever.
But being RPG? Hell no, it's suppose to try to be a survival horror and not a farming game with boring dialogue, they need to focus on the narrative and some gameplay aspects and the game will be spectacular as ever.
comshoplesce
Member
20+ hours and 2-3 gameplays with grounded+ trophies for platinum and some MP action is all I need 
They did though. Ellie and Joel met npcs, they talked to them or interacted with them outside of cutscenes or combat. If anything, I'd say that outside of dialogue choices, TLoU was more subtle in that department than Witcher 3.
Sure, CDPR game had quests that you could resolve by talking rather than fighting, and it had the luxury of a vast world to show what a country at war looks like. And it excelled at it. TLoU used its characters to do the same thing, it was less massive or demonstrative, but as effective imo.
The Last of Us is not a role playing game. It is a game that pushed the gaming medium further, with its controversial conclusion. It's not about what YOU would do, it's about what the characters in the game do. The strength of The Last of Us is its focused story telling. What you paint as a narrow "gallery shooter" is what makes The Last of Us have such a strong emotional impact. There is no disjoint gameplay and story, and you've missed the whole point of the game in why you want it to be an RPG. You're saying there are only cut-scenes and shooting, but that's not the case. Just because you don't have any dialog options doesn't mean dialog doesn't happen. And it does. All the time. In gameplay.
The Last of Us pushes the medium forward because it shows us that games aren't only about being the biggest author insertion machine as possible, but rather about telling stories in various ways. The fact that it's an interactive medium doesn't mean that you need an a story you can control. RPG is vague enough as a genre, but there's nothing about the systems one would envision by such a suggestion that would add anything to the game. I would say that you're looking for stories in the wrong places if there's not a living world there for you in The Last of Us. That, or you are too concerned that it is linear.
I wouldn't say that your opinion is wrong, but I do think you should respect what is a critically acclaimed game at the sake of diversity. I don't call for games that I don't feel to change to be more like the games that I do like. I can't get into the Witcher. I'm not that big a fan of the time period, but I won't say that the game should have a sci-fi setting. As such, this is a game that doesn't resonate with you, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the game. The last thing The Last of Us 2 needs is to be changed into an RPG.
See, everything you say should be there is there. The game tells its story through gameplay, through interactions in gameplay. Never before has a ludonarrative dissonance been further away than in The Last Of Us. There's no practical difference between a cutscene and gameplay. Just because the ludo-part of the game doesn't revolve around character interaction doesn't mean that character interaction isn't there. It's like you discredit things that don't come with gameplay prompt or choice. Where you might derive the world from talking with NPCs, The Last of Us tells those stories in details and subtle hints. Things aren't that explicit in this game, but when you look at the details of the game, you see just how fleshed out everything is. Every house you enter tells its own story about the people who lived there. Each set conveys its own story. You have walking down roads with tons and tons of cars that are stranded in a queue. You have people who died while they tried getting out of the city still in the cars. The Last of Us isn't about meeting a stranded NPC along the way that say the lost their pendant that their dead husband gave to them. It's about entering a house with suitcases on the bed, understanding the urgency that went into when that place was evacuated. It's a walk through a world of despair, seeing the carnage it left behind. The story is so densely packed that I'm not surprised it's hard to take it all in, but all of this is just me trying to show that The Last of US works extremely well the way it is set up. Let's leave it like that.
The Last of Us pushes the medium forward because it shows us that games aren't only about being the biggest author insertion machine as possible, but rather about telling stories in various ways. The fact that it's an interactive medium doesn't mean that you need an a story you can control. RPG is vague enough as a genre, but there's nothing about the systems one would envision by such a suggestion that would add anything to the game. I would say that you're looking for stories in the wrong places if there's not a living world there for you in The Last of Us. That, or you are too concerned that it is linear.
I wouldn't say that your opinion is wrong, but I do think you should respect what is a critically acclaimed game at the sake of diversity. I don't call for games that I don't feel to change to be more like the games that I do like. I can't get into the Witcher. I'm not that big a fan of the time period, but I won't say that the game should have a sci-fi setting. As such, this is a game that doesn't resonate with you, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the game. The last thing The Last of Us 2 needs is to be changed into an RPG.
See, everything you say should be there is there. The game tells its story through gameplay, through interactions in gameplay. Never before has a ludonarrative dissonance been further away than in The Last Of Us. There's no practical difference between a cutscene and gameplay. Just because the ludo-part of the game doesn't revolve around character interaction doesn't mean that character interaction isn't there. It's like you discredit things that don't come with gameplay prompt or choice. Where you might derive the world from talking with NPCs, The Last of Us tells those stories in details and subtle hints. Things aren't that explicit in this game, but when you look at the details of the game, you see just how fleshed out everything is. Every house you enter tells its own story about the people who lived there. Each set conveys its own story. You have walking down roads with tons and tons of cars that are stranded in a queue. You have people who died while they tried getting out of the city still in the cars. The Last of Us isn't about meeting a stranded NPC along the way that say the lost their pendant that their dead husband gave to them. It's about entering a house with suitcases on the bed, understanding the urgency that went into when that place was evacuated. It's a walk through a world of despair, seeing the carnage it left behind. The story is so densely packed that I'm not surprised it's hard to take it all in, but all of this is just me trying to show that The Last of US works extremely well the way it is set up. Let's leave it like that.
Totally disagree. First time through on PS3 on Hard, then PS4 on Grounded and the gameplay is as close as I'd like to believe that sort of scenario would be. I basically was terrified of an encounter where I was outnumbered. Every bullet and resource counted and couldn't afford to be wasted. The gameplay in those harder difficulties matched the narrative perfectly imo.
Lockjaw333
Member
Dude I am so happy that ME: Andromeda has given us this glorious gift of endless gifs. I expect to see gifs like this a lot moving forward and it makes me warm and fuzzy.
On topic, I disagree OP. I think TLOU was phenomenal and doesn't really need to be changed much. Just give me more story.
Truth. Read this OP.
StrawberryJam
Member
Anyone who wants dialogue trees in The Last Of Us missed the point. Go play something else.
The fact that the developers wanted to tell a specific story is itself a compelling reason for not going down the RPG route. This game isn't supposed to be about the player charting their own course.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Hell no.
Absolutely not.
Go play a different game.
Absolutely not.
Go play a different game.
It needs:
- Open world
- Towers to expand the area
- Collectibles
- Dialogue tree
- Skill tree
- Multiple endings
- Roguelike
- Soulsborne combat
- Leveling system
- Multiplayer only
- First person
- 8 bit graphics
No. The game isn't a shooting gallery like you're saying also. It's telling a linear story, and it does it really well. Linear games are good, guys.
- Open world
- Towers to expand the area
- Collectibles
- Dialogue tree
- Skill tree
- Multiple endings
- Roguelike
- Soulsborne combat
- Leveling system
- Multiplayer only
- First person
- 8 bit graphics
No. The game isn't a shooting gallery like you're saying also. It's telling a linear story, and it does it really well. Linear games are good, guys.
ResidentWeevil13
Member
I would settle for better variety in the encounter design. I love the original, but it really felt lazy in this respect to me.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
I love a good RPG
I love Last of us
This would be the perfect combination, said 1 guy.
nah.. just nah.
I love Last of us
This would be the perfect combination, said 1 guy.
nah.. just nah.
Trogdor1123
Member
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Hell no!
And no to open world as well, im tired of all the open world crap we've been getting.
And no to open world as well, im tired of all the open world crap we've been getting.
Nope.
If I want to play an RPG there's a tons out there to choose from.
What I expect and what I get from Naughty Dog are more linear, story driven games which focus on character development.
I don't want open world, multiple choice dialogue wheels and having to grind for levels. I want to be part of a story with a fixed beginning, middle and end. Sometimes it's better to be told a tale by a good storyteller then make up your own version of what happens.
Don't get me wrong though, if TLOU2 has larger level/hub areas than the first then that would be pretty cool. It just doesn't need to be fully open world and filled with meaningless side quests.
If I want to play an RPG there's a tons out there to choose from.
What I expect and what I get from Naughty Dog are more linear, story driven games which focus on character development.
I don't want open world, multiple choice dialogue wheels and having to grind for levels. I want to be part of a story with a fixed beginning, middle and end. Sometimes it's better to be told a tale by a good storyteller then make up your own version of what happens.
Don't get me wrong though, if TLOU2 has larger level/hub areas than the first then that would be pretty cool. It just doesn't need to be fully open world and filled with meaningless side quests.
The last of us is already amazing, they chose this way because it allows for the developer to focus on telling the story they want at their pace.
I hate the thinking that open world makes everything better. The reason TLOU was so great is that it allowed for the main story to be the main focus. One reason i hated skyrim is because it was to opened, I had forgotten most of the story by the time I decided to continue it and lost the will to play it. The RPG element is already in the game with the mechanic to upgrade items and the character.
What ND did with Uncharted 4 is what I see them doing with LOU2, making the area bigger but still all pointing to one place.
I hate the thinking that open world makes everything better. The reason TLOU was so great is that it allowed for the main story to be the main focus. One reason i hated skyrim is because it was to opened, I had forgotten most of the story by the time I decided to continue it and lost the will to play it. The RPG element is already in the game with the mechanic to upgrade items and the character.
What ND did with Uncharted 4 is what I see them doing with LOU2, making the area bigger but still all pointing to one place.
keltickennedy
Member
That's not ND thing OP. Not every game needs RPG elements. They seem to be doing fine creating more linear experiences.
Stone Ocean
Member
It's a post apocalyptic world, it's not supposed to feel alive.
the most mountain of dews
Member
Please no. I love rpgs but I need a break now and then! I actually go out of my way to find games with the least amount of those mechanics now and then because it's just tiring at times. I need variety!!!
KirbKirb30
Member
...That's not how games are played or made, though. If a game still plays excellently in spite of that treatment, it's a plus. But it's not a minus if it doesn't.
Necron
Member
I'm fine with it being a linear survival-horror/action game with a story worth telling and a shotgun that feels like it came from Resident Evil 4, thank you very much.
It just needs more interesting "traversal puzzles". Having the same "push a piece of wood to get someone across" several times is equally as ridiculous as the "push a box from A to B" in Uncharted 4 multiple occasions. Stop implementing these things more than twice, Naughty Dog. Everything else is brilliant, though.
It just needs more interesting "traversal puzzles". Having the same "push a piece of wood to get someone across" several times is equally as ridiculous as the "push a box from A to B" in Uncharted 4 multiple occasions. Stop implementing these things more than twice, Naughty Dog. Everything else is brilliant, though.
Lionel Richie
Member
Holy shit, it does not need that, in fact I think it needs the opposite. The best thing about the Uncharted games is how they are a non stop shooter with little to no side mechanics to get in the way of that. It messes the narrative, but I prefer that to messing the fun. While I don't dislike crafting necessarily, it felt like the most boring part of The Last of Us and I don't want another walking simulator rock collector XP hoarding romp.
The best thing about ND games is how they are action movies at heart.
The best thing about ND games is how they are action movies at heart.
i love taking organic implementations of mechanical ideas and just grabbing their statistical innards and violently yanking them to the surface.
that's the good shit. why would anybody want things like animation instead?
i mean, shit, video games should just be spreadsheets. gameplay is king after all.
that's the good shit. why would anybody want things like animation instead?
i mean, shit, video games should just be spreadsheets. gameplay is king after all.
Pilgrimzero
Member
What it needs is city building sim. The Last of Sims.
ComputerBlue
Member
With waypoints and towers along with it?
Hell no. The game is good as is. If they want to spin-off the franchise and make an RPG or open world game, so be it, but not this one.
Hell no. The game is good as is. If they want to spin-off the franchise and make an RPG or open world game, so be it, but not this one.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Nope. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I love ND games for being nice, linear, narrative-driven experiences.
I love stuff like Zelda and Horizon, but not everything needs to be open, have fuller RPG elements, offer player freedom etc. Sometimes I want to just play through a movie more or less and ND does a great job of making those type of experiences and having me also enjoy the combat and traversal.
I love ND games for being nice, linear, narrative-driven experiences.
I love stuff like Zelda and Horizon, but not everything needs to be open, have fuller RPG elements, offer player freedom etc. Sometimes I want to just play through a movie more or less and ND does a great job of making those type of experiences and having me also enjoy the combat and traversal.
Please, no. Open world is so played out at this point and it's super distracting. I would 100% be fine with a similar formula that the first game had: mostly linear story with some side objectives here and there but nothing that is going to take me 300 hours to 100%.
I get where OP is coming from but he needs to be more specific as the term 'RPG' is practically meaningless nowadays. We know he's not asking for non-linear narrative (no one will agree to that) but RPG-like gameplay can be referring to...
Stats-based combat: Horrible idea. Hard hitting weaponry (balanced by scarce resources) is the most satisfying part of TLOU gameplay and the last thing we need are human enemies that take 10+ bullets to put down. Horizon is the only shooter-RPG hybrid that made it work imo and that's mostly due to enemy design (location-based damage, destructible armour, etc).
Skill Tree/Perks: I'm not convinced of the need for more customisation options beyond the 6 core skills and weapon upgrading. That's how Joel fight in this world and imo, helps the player connect to the story.
Alternate solutions to combat: Could work but it needs to make sense within the story. I agree that more areas should be solvable by just using stealth, but resolution via dialogue doesn't seem possible for 99% of the story scenario.
Leveling/XP: The thing i hate most about RPGs. Absolutely not.
Stats-based combat: Horrible idea. Hard hitting weaponry (balanced by scarce resources) is the most satisfying part of TLOU gameplay and the last thing we need are human enemies that take 10+ bullets to put down. Horizon is the only shooter-RPG hybrid that made it work imo and that's mostly due to enemy design (location-based damage, destructible armour, etc).
Skill Tree/Perks: I'm not convinced of the need for more customisation options beyond the 6 core skills and weapon upgrading. That's how Joel fight in this world and imo, helps the player connect to the story.
Alternate solutions to combat: Could work but it needs to make sense within the story. I agree that more areas should be solvable by just using stealth, but resolution via dialogue doesn't seem possible for 99% of the story scenario.
Leveling/XP: The thing i hate most about RPGs. Absolutely not.
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