-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
So Breath of the Wild is probably going to be a template for next decade of 3D Zeldas
- Thread starter Doosi
- Start date
I completely disagree, but it's your opinion.
OOT is the pinnacle of the series(and still my favourite game ever) for me.
flyinpiranha
Member
Yep, 10-15 hours in right now and I really, really miss dungeons and loathe the whole weapon breaking thing.
It's not detracting from the game in general, but I don't think the lack of dungeons and breaking weapons adds to it either.
I get that exploration is the 'key' and what makes it fun. But honestly that feel of beating a dungeon isn't something to trifle with. I miss it.
Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing game and I plan to go back and fully invest my time once I beat Horizon and I understand the direction they took. It worked, but they could add some actual dungeons and some cool unique items (although I count the shield surfing and paraglider as "unique" for me) to flesh out my exploring, that would be great. It would be amazing to stumble upon a castle or dungeon or something where there's "treasure" at the end.
brandonh83
Banned
Hopefully a smaller world (look it can still be absolutely huge without being as absolutely huge as BOTW) with a better variety of dungeons and bosses. Aonuma says he feels like they can do better, and there's a few improvements that immediately spring to mind. I like the shrines, but 120 small ones? I'd rather have 40 or so that are larger. While the puzzles are mostly different with each having its own concept, you still get a feeling of "same song and dance" mostly due to the look of them, the music (which is great!) and the enemies being the same Guardian types.
It's an amazing game, just lacking in a few key areas for me. The groundwork was laid for best shit ever material and they almost got it right but not completely.
It's an amazing game, just lacking in a few key areas for me. The groundwork was laid for best shit ever material and they almost got it right but not completely.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
As someone who grew up on the first game, enjoyed the combat/sense of powering up of the second one, was blown away by EVERYTHING they crammed into ALttP, and adored how fluid LA played.... I'll never understand this :x
Chinbo37
Member
No just the next one.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Can't say I've found that ability broke anything really and if parts of the game or dungeon were designed for the hookshot, I'm sure it would be fine. Hookshot never really broke a Zelda game before and it's not like we are saying the Hookshot should be put into BotW.
The next game could be designed to have that item in the world without it breaking the game pretty easily.
VistraNorrez
Member
I expect there to be 3 types of Zelda games going forward. The big open world game, smaller traditional 3D games, and the top down 2d games.
There will be elements they all share, of course.
There will be elements they all share, of course.
brandonh83
Banned
The beautiful thing about this is that they would all fit the Switch as well. The 2D top down ones would be marvelous on the tablet but you could still play them on the TV if you desire.
Though I imagine there'll probably be another one on 3DS before there will be one tailor made for the Switch tablet. But I am so ready for one that can harness the better tech of the console to provide a more detailed and better looking 2D Zelda.
I don't want gated areas anymore. The hookshot used to represent a key to access areas that were meant for later progression. I think Quality of Life items would be better rewards, as they provide unique improvements to things already accessible.
A rope arrow or spelunking item that would allow you to quickly climb surfaces, even in the rain.
A scale that allowed you to swim in bursts of speed similar to
swimming up waterfalls
A portable cooking pot.
None of the towers are earlier or later. You can go to any of them as soon as you leave the plateau, regardless of upgrades. That needs to remain, because that defines true freedom of exploration.
If we're using MM as a potential sequel, I would love to see their physics, chemistry and gameplay mechanics applied to a much smaller world, or even something a bit more "traditionally zelda". Something to the scale of a 3D Links Awakening would be excellent.
Plus ya know, being on an island - no worry about invisible walls.
+infinite
If they are as great as engrossing as BOTW, I don't think I could handle more than 2 more in the next decade.
Lionel Richie
Member
This is how I feel as well, there's no reason to follow just one template when there's 3 awesome ones available.
I'd happily take the Wind Waker Grappling Hook to help with climbing/Swing over chasms/make rope bridges/pretty much everything else you can do with a rope and a hook
Dark-Cloudz
Member
Milly Osworth
Member
Sounds good to me. Nintendo can do a lot of refinements still.
A prequel using the same map would be literally the best game ever. Either 10,000 years ago, so technology is more advanced and we get a full fledged plot maybe explaining how ganon became calamity ganon, or a game set 100 years ago which could be party-based and show the lead up to BotW in more detail.
Either would be better.
BotW is one of the best games I've ever played, but at the same time it definitely feels like a foundation, now that the younger teams are working on Zelda I can see them wanting to implement a larger narrative to the games, it was the only thing missing from BotW. The game had such charming characters, but you only got a minute or so of exposition when it came to them, usually as ghosts.
It could definitely be used as something to add some dynamicness to the climbing mechanic. Hell there could just be some durability mechanic that starts off weak and gets stronger as the game goes on, hence mirroring how you can only cilmb a little at first but more as the game goes on.
(this way you also don't have to watch link;s tedious climbing animation.
Either would be better.
BotW is one of the best games I've ever played, but at the same time it definitely feels like a foundation, now that the younger teams are working on Zelda I can see them wanting to implement a larger narrative to the games, it was the only thing missing from BotW. The game had such charming characters, but you only got a minute or so of exposition when it came to them, usually as ghosts.
It could definitely be used as something to add some dynamicness to the climbing mechanic. Hell there could just be some durability mechanic that starts off weak and gets stronger as the game goes on, hence mirroring how you can only cilmb a little at first but more as the game goes on.
(this way you also don't have to watch link;s tedious climbing animation.
Master Yoshi
Member
I'm hoping the BotW story DLC is centered around masks and reuses the same map of Hyrule from now. I'd like to work towards rebuilding all of the ruined areas of Hyrule. Imagine Restoring the ranch ruins and then being able to store your best mounts here, running freely. Maybe restoring ruined areas brings in new or familiar NPCs from previous Zelda titles.
Add in tons of new sidequests, weapons, items and clothes. Bring in the Mask Salesman, give us the transformation masks. Goron, Zora, Deku (or Korok?), Rito, Wolf Link mask?
The Goron mask could give the rolling ability, as well as being able to lift massive objects, break apart rocks and ore with your fists, and so forth.
Zora could give increased swimming speed, the waterfall HM.
Rito could allow you to fly for short stints with a reasonable recharge rate.
Lynel Mask, anyone? They can already use swords, shields and bows...
You get the idea, I'm sure there are tons more masks that could be quite interesting.
For a sequel to BotW, I find the islands in this game to be really neat, especially Eventide. I'm game for bringing back Wind Waker sailing with this new engine. Give us some pirate themed goodness.
And I really hope it's a direct sequel. Same Link, short time gap.
Add in tons of new sidequests, weapons, items and clothes. Bring in the Mask Salesman, give us the transformation masks. Goron, Zora, Deku (or Korok?), Rito, Wolf Link mask?
The Goron mask could give the rolling ability, as well as being able to lift massive objects, break apart rocks and ore with your fists, and so forth.
Zora could give increased swimming speed, the waterfall HM.
Rito could allow you to fly for short stints with a reasonable recharge rate.
Lynel Mask, anyone? They can already use swords, shields and bows...
You get the idea, I'm sure there are tons more masks that could be quite interesting.
For a sequel to BotW, I find the islands in this game to be really neat, especially Eventide. I'm game for bringing back Wind Waker sailing with this new engine. Give us some pirate themed goodness.
And I really hope it's a direct sequel. Same Link, short time gap.
- Use the same sandbox gameplay.
- Make another Hyrule map. Use the existing one as a starting point, but change the setting. Consider bringing back the concept of a mirror world.
- Bring back traditional, distinct dungeons with distinct bosses.
- Don't give us all "items" in the first hour of the game.
- Make inventory management and cooking less cumbersome.
- Let us ride flying mounts
- Make another Hyrule map. Use the existing one as a starting point, but change the setting. Consider bringing back the concept of a mirror world.
- Bring back traditional, distinct dungeons with distinct bosses.
- Don't give us all "items" in the first hour of the game.
- Make inventory management and cooking less cumbersome.
- Let us ride flying mounts
In the making of video they said they started in 2013 though
I don't mind if the next game, or even the game after that, will follow up with the same basic design principles at their core as BotW because I really like BotW, but there's still a lot they could improve on. A lot of the design decisions were very clearly made with the Wii U GamePad in mind and the final result suffered from it.
That being said, I do hope they won't entirely abandon the more focused Zelda adventures. I still like Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker more than I do Breath of the Wild, though they are all great.
That being said, I do hope they won't entirely abandon the more focused Zelda adventures. I still like Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker more than I do Breath of the Wild, though they are all great.
All_Nippon
Neo Member
Hopefully not, or BotW will be my last 3D Zelda.
If they completely change the game's design, why would Nintendo not simply create a new IP?
If they completely change the game's design, why would Nintendo not simply create a new IP?
Earthbound64
Banned
Did people hate Ocarina of Time because it took 2D Zelda away from them?
(The answer, of course, is that yes, some did)
While I want the next game to have bigger, differently themed dungeons scattered throughout the world, I don't think I want them to be "traditional". And I speak this as someone who was firmly in the "dungeon player" camp of the Zelda fanbase before BOTW.
I want Nintendo to implement BOTW's freeform puzzles and exploration in a more realized, grander scale. Maybe add 2 or 3 more runes and build the puzzles around using your whole arsenal (including climbing, gliding and the ability to cut down things, for example). If you want a sense of progression, ramp up the difficulty of the puzzles and combat after every 3 to 4 dungeons, offering more complex scenarios. People immediately wanting to go back to the previous formula after a grand total of 1 game seem a little shortsighted to me. Besides, it's not like it's impossible to implement more OOT elements to BOTW's template.
If we absolutely must go back, then at the very least discard the "this boss has an obvious weakness to this dungeon's items in this 3 phase battle" formula for the more organic approach taken by BOTW. Was never a big fan of previous 3D Zelda bosses because of it. Also, less puzzles centered around a dungeon's item. Exploration/puzzles built around a bigger set of tools are better.
Also, a complete revamp of themes would be appreciated. I don't need Forest-Fire-Water Temple 5.0 electric boogaloo. They don't even need to be temples. Be more creative with the dungeons templates, like a city in the skies and snowpeak mansion kinda deal. Maybe a Zelda equivalent of Sen's Fortress/Tower of Latria/Duke's Archives/Anor Londo. I don't know, not that we're not limited by formulas, go wild.
I want Nintendo to implement BOTW's freeform puzzles and exploration in a more realized, grander scale. Maybe add 2 or 3 more runes and build the puzzles around using your whole arsenal (including climbing, gliding and the ability to cut down things, for example). If you want a sense of progression, ramp up the difficulty of the puzzles and combat after every 3 to 4 dungeons, offering more complex scenarios. People immediately wanting to go back to the previous formula after a grand total of 1 game seem a little shortsighted to me. Besides, it's not like it's impossible to implement more OOT elements to BOTW's template.
If we absolutely must go back, then at the very least discard the "this boss has an obvious weakness to this dungeon's items in this 3 phase battle" formula for the more organic approach taken by BOTW. Was never a big fan of previous 3D Zelda bosses because of it. Also, less puzzles centered around a dungeon's item. Exploration/puzzles built around a bigger set of tools are better.
Also, a complete revamp of themes would be appreciated. I don't need Forest-Fire-Water Temple 5.0 electric boogaloo. They don't even need to be temples. Be more creative with the dungeons templates, like a city in the skies and snowpeak mansion kinda deal. Maybe a Zelda equivalent of Sen's Fortress/Tower of Latria/Duke's Archives/Anor Londo. I don't know, not that we're not limited by formulas, go wild.
It's also possible we might only see 1 more 3D Zelda in the next 10 years. Given SS came out in Nov 2011 and BotW in March 2017.
Sakura
Member
Is Nintendo really known to do this though? I mean, OoT was incredibly well received and sold well, and the direct sequel to the game is very different from it. And then the next Zelda, Wind Waker, was again extremely different from OoT.
I'm not really sure the next 3D Zelda will just basically be a follow up to BotW. It seems like they are always trying to do new things.
I'm not really sure the next 3D Zelda will just basically be a follow up to BotW. It seems like they are always trying to do new things.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
They could always make use of the Hookshot in a different way, it doesn't mean it has to go back to being exactly like the old games. Steal weapons /shields from the hands of an enemy or maybe have detachable shots, so you attach enemies to things like a boulder and then push it down a hill, so it drags them away. I'm sure they could come up with a number of different uses for it.
They could make some of them a puzzle without the need for certain items, so not to restrict the player though.
There was 2 or 3 which tried to make it a little harder to get up but the rest were just boring old towers. Half way through climbing all the towers, I was already sick off climbing them, as they are all the same, climb, reach platform, wait a few seconds for stamina to build, climb again........ boring as hell when there are 15 of them !
They all share a ton of tropes from Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past that Breath of the Wild threw in the trash.
I have no idea why anyone that is applauding Nintendo for taking a risk and trying something new would then beg them to reuse assets, ideas, or structure to create another BotW. Especially the people wanting a MM style sequel. Let them continue to take risks if you want special games.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I think Zelda is the perfect template for a hybrid Zelda going forward. The open world can hold a person for hours, but the bite-size nature of the shrines and the east save system are fantastic for portability... Maybe better than any Zelda created exclusively for handhelds.
What The Forest Taught Me
Member
This is also assuming we'd even get more than one mainline 3D Zelda over the next decade. There was a six year gap between Skyward Sword and BotW alone, and game development times and costs aren't exactly decreasing!
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I suspect this is what the "new story" teased for the Winter DLC update will be.
Mysterious Stranger
Member
Hopefully Nintendo makes games for other systems so we can get a 4k zelda!
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Not this shit again.
I hope some other developer(s) basically clone the other style of Zelda. I love what I've played of BotW but the meat of the game is pretty much nothing like the pre-BotW 3D Zeldas, or really any post-NES Zelda, and I think it would be a shame to see that style of game go away since there have been so few copycats.
Lionel Richie
Member
Funny thing is that Majora's Mask was possibly the biggest risk they ever took with the series.
PSFan
Member
Just because you can doesn't mean you have to. And I never knew that anyway, I always want to clear Zelda games 100%.
And LttP is, again, more like Zelda 1 than BOTW is. BOTW has none of the elements that were present in those games that were the big reason I enjoy Zelda games in the first place.
BOTW seems to cater to combat elitists more than anything.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
As someone who basically spent the majority of the game just running around, exploring, climbing, and not fighting stuff to the point that I basically avoided all conflict in the final Hyrule Castle area, I'm not sure I understand that sentiment. :/
Yeah, exactly my point. Begging for a MM-esque take on BotW is asking to be disappointed. The only reason MM ever happened is because they didn't listen to fans expectations. Same with WW and LBW. Let them be weird, take risks, and figure it out.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Yes please.
Octavianus
Banned
Me neither. I've always felt like OOT (and the other 3D games up till now) failed to live up to the 2D games that came before and after it. BOTW is them finally bringing 3D Zelda up to the same level.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Theres a tower per big region, wtf.
Theres the perfect amount of them, and each one has a challenge (that you can cheese becuase of the nature of the game)
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Each to their own, personally I got bored of them because loads of games do towers these days and I didn't find any challenging.
I preferred Horizon's take on towers and there are only 5 of them, no need to drag it out over 15.
If you like climbing the towers, that's fine, different strokes and all that but I just found them a bit boring after the first few, especially when there are so much more fun things to be doing in the game.
BOTW is delightful and I have no doubt Nintendo will be making new 3D Zeldas using it as a base.
I'm really curious how traditional dungeons would feel integrated into this formula. Maybe they would be more like "enemy strongholds" that you need to kill the boss of to get quest items, idunno.
Take weather to the next level. A more realistic cloud movement and air pressure system so you can see bad weather in the distance, or just not get bothered by it if you're high up enough. Bring back magic, with expensive weather spells.
Roaming enemy AI, bands of monsters galloping to and fro.
Roaming friendly AI, parties of soldiers protecting villages.
Maybe a future game will have normalized numbers? Weapon damage and enemy HP vary wildly in BOTW, if it was more constricted and enemies instead had varying levels of skill Nintendo could tweak the durability system to allow for unbreakable weapons (or at least, weapons that don't break unless you TRY to break them).
I'm trying to think of what a Dark World would even mean for a game like this, in a way that's not just "it's more land".
An inversion of BOTW, where the final boss is proudly displayed smack in the middle of the map, to a game where the final boss is deviously hidden would probably "feel" like old Zelda and other open world games. Regardless, I want it.
I'm really curious how traditional dungeons would feel integrated into this formula. Maybe they would be more like "enemy strongholds" that you need to kill the boss of to get quest items, idunno.
Take weather to the next level. A more realistic cloud movement and air pressure system so you can see bad weather in the distance, or just not get bothered by it if you're high up enough. Bring back magic, with expensive weather spells.
Roaming enemy AI, bands of monsters galloping to and fro.
Roaming friendly AI, parties of soldiers protecting villages.
Maybe a future game will have normalized numbers? Weapon damage and enemy HP vary wildly in BOTW, if it was more constricted and enemies instead had varying levels of skill Nintendo could tweak the durability system to allow for unbreakable weapons (or at least, weapons that don't break unless you TRY to break them).
I'm trying to think of what a Dark World would even mean for a game like this, in a way that's not just "it's more land".
An inversion of BOTW, where the final boss is proudly displayed smack in the middle of the map, to a game where the final boss is deviously hidden would probably "feel" like old Zelda and other open world games. Regardless, I want it.
badcrumble
Member
Weird thing for me about BotW is how much fun a hookshot would be (maybe as an item you have to beat the toughest dungeon to get, whatever). I get the decision not to include it but the reasoning seems to be basically "it'd be too awesome."