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The Metal Thread |OT2| All Riffs, No Gifs

M

MezzoForte

Member
Sanctuary said:
I am super particular when it comes to black metal (and I suppose to a similar, but lesser extent death or any form of "extreme" in general), but it mostly has to do with the "four track in a garage production" that doesn't add atmosphere to me. It simply sounds bad to my ears.
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I actually find that after a certain point, a level of polish can make an album sound almost disingenuous to me. I'm drawn to the rawer and more abrasive sounds of the genre. What I look for in black metal usually is some kind of negative emotional extreme or a general sense of evil and chaos; the anti-production attitude is all the more conducive to that expression whereas a more commercial sound would undermine it in my opinion. With that said, a rec for people who understand where I'm coming from.

moonblood-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Moonblood (DEU) - Blut & Krieg

scathing glory. Absolutely mandatory old school black metal.

relevant side note, the new Black Cilice is out. Buy it.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
MezzoForte said:
I actually find that after a certain point, a level of polish can make an album sound almost disingenuous to me. I'm drawn to the rawer and more abrasive sounds of the genre. What I look for in black metal usually is some kind of negative emotional extreme or a general sense of evil and chaos; the anti-production attitude is all the more conducive to that expression whereas a more commercial sound would undermine it in my opinion. With that said, a rec for people who understand where I'm coming from.



Moonblood (DEU) - Blut & Krieg

scathing glory. Absolutely mandatory old school black metal.

relevant side note, the new Black Cilice is out. Buy it.
Click to expand...

I don't like overly polished productions either, but having a good production doesn't somehow make the music "less troo". It can be raw and not sound low-fi just because it's expected to have a two dollar budget as well. It seriously sounds like the vocalist is in a garage singing into a can that has a small mic, and the instruments all just mush together. Way too much reverb on everything.
 
M

MezzoForte

Member
Sanctuary said:
I don't like overly polished productions either, but having a good production doesn't somehow make the music "less troo". It can be raw and not sound low-fi just because it's expected to have a two dollar budget as well. It seriously sounds like the vocalist is in a garage singing into a can that has a small mic, and the instruments all just mush together. Way too much reverb on everything.
Click to expand...
you're exactly right about how it sounds, and it's something I and many other listeners would never fault bands like these for. Like I said, the appeal of black metal to me is that it's supposed to magnify hate, isolation, rejection, etc. It's why many recordings of this nature exist, and will continue to be made. When black metal starts to sound too commercial those feelings get lost on me and it ultimately is ineffectual. This is just me, but again it's why I feel people should just accept it for what it is instead of wishing it sounded "better". Albums like March to the Black Holocaust are worshipped because they are the ultimate in the glorification of spite.
 
R

Ravager61

Member
MezzoForte said:
you're exactly right about how it sounds, and it's something I and many other listeners would never fault bands like these for. Like I said, the appeal of black metal to me is that it's supposed to magnify hate, isolation, rejection, etc. It's why many recordings of this nature exist, and will continue to be made. When black metal starts to sound too commercial those feelings get lost on me and it ultimately is ineffectual. This is just me, but again it's why I feel people should just accept it for what it is instead of wishing it sounded "better". Albums like March to the Black Holocaust are worshipped because they are the ultimate in the glorification of spite.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you nailed the appeal Mezzo. That cacophony of sound the production creates is just unlike anything else in music to me. It's pure atmosphere. This has always been the appeal of black metal specifically to me. It just takes me to another place. Overly produced black metal really doesn't even occupy the same genre space in my mind.

Also, I'll take this as an opportunity to show off a bit of my collection:
twxAfYUl.jpg
 
T

Tankard

Member
Pillorian debut album is so good, it's great to have "Agalloch" back.

Also, new Lock Up album is killer, although more of the same for them.
 
G

Giant Robot

Member
Ravager61 said:
Yeah, I think you nailed the appeal Mezzo. That cacophony of sound the production creates is just unlike anything else in music to me. It's pure atmosphere. This has always been the appeal of black metal specifically to me. It just takes me to another place. Overly produced black metal really doesn't even occupy the same genre space in my mind.
Click to expand...

This post made me put on Slaegt - Ildsvanger so I can appreciate the tribute to 2nd wave of black metal. I agree 110% though. I can't stand "overproduced" music in any genre. Part of the anti-overproduction appeal is also the DIY/raw/non commercial attitude. An artist's sound, production, song writing, techniques, whatever is just part of "their sound" and genetic that fits into a narrative.

However, I wish Carcass - Reek of Putrefaction and Immortal - Blizzard Beasts had better production. So many wasted riffs and potential lost in the mud :\
 
M

MezzoForte

Member
Ravager61 said:
Yeah, I think you nailed the appeal Mezzo. That cacophony of sound the production creates is just unlike anything else in music to me. It's pure atmosphere. This has always been the appeal of black metal specifically to me. It just takes me to another place. Overly produced black metal really doesn't even occupy the same genre space in my mind.

Also, I'll take this as an opportunity to show off a bit of my collection:
Click to expand...

speak of old school black metal, and it shall appear. Very nice, both staples that I still need on wax. I always wanted to get a bunch of the LLN and Moonblood reissue LPs but I never pulled the trigger. Have been buying CDs more than anything as of late but here are some of my recent vinyl scores:

170314_01_zpsuwaumgy0.png


Carved Cross (AUS) - Carved Cross LP (Overuse 2017)
Carved Cross (AUS) - Untitled 2LP (Skjold 2017)
Marsh (MN) - Life's Contradiction LP + MC (Final Agony 2010)
Rhinocervs (CA) - RH-07 LP (Final Agony 2017)

to add to the whole raw thing, Carved Cross is the very definition. Everything they've done is just a dirge of hell noise. Everything they release is in very low quantities. If it couldn't be more obvious, this band isn't for everyone and they don't mean to be. While this example is somewhat of an extreme, it's this sort of attitude that is wholly characteristic of black metal. Moving on from that now, I can't recommend RH-07 enough. One of the best albums under Rhinocervs. Has great ambient, even funeral doom-ish moments.

Giant Robot said:
This post made me put on Slaegt - Ildsvanger so I can appreciate the tribute to 2nd wave of black metal. I agree 110% though. I can't stand "overproduced" music in any genre. Part of the anti-overproduction appeal is also the DIY/raw/non commercial attitude. An artist's sound, production, song writing, techniques, whatever is just part of "their sound" and genetic that fits into a narrative.

However, I wish Carcass - Reek of Putrefaction and Immortal - Blizzard Beasts had better production. So many wasted riffs and potential lost in the mud :\
Click to expand...

Ildsvanger is an outstanding album. Beautiful and Damned is a fine record in its own right, but since they didn't change their name first I doubt if we'll hear another pure black metal album from these guys again.
 
Z

Zelenogorsk

Banned
I've been listening to a bunch of albums featuring Davide "BrutalDave" Billia lately (a crazy prolific death metal drummer from Italy) and from that I discovered the latest Beheaded album. Nothing groundbreaking in death metal terms but it has great production and a nice mid-90's feel to the whole thing if you ask me. Maybe it's just a nice change of pace from the ultra-brootal stuff i've been listening to but if you're a Suffocation or Immolation fan then check this out!

I already raved about it earlier in the year but BrutalDave also played on the new Hour of Penance album and both that and the Beheaded album above have some great bass guitar on them. As both a bassist and a death metal fan I find it simply too often that the bass is left in the dust on modern death metal albums, but these two have that covered!

Here's a link to BrutalDave's Metal Archives page so you can see just how much this dude drums!
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
MezzoForte said:
you're exactly right about how it sounds, and it's something I and many other listeners would never fault bands like these for. Like I said, the appeal of black metal to me is that it's supposed to magnify hate, isolation, rejection, etc. It's why many recordings of this nature exist, and will continue to be made. When black metal starts to sound too commercial those feelings get lost on me and it ultimately is ineffectual. This is just me, but again it's why I feel people should just accept it for what it is instead of wishing it sounded "better". Albums like March to the Black Holocaust are worshipped because they are the ultimate in the glorification of spite.
Click to expand...

It must be really hard for a lot of these bands then to deal with how much better they sound live compared to their studio offerings.

Is this not considered black anymore, or is it "progressive with black vocals"? Because it too does not have the best production, yet most things are distinct and it does have a lot of atmosphere.

How about this?
 
M

MezzoForte

Member
Sanctuary said:
It must be really hard for a lot of these bands then to deal with how much better they sound live compared to their studio offerings.

Is this not considered black anymore, or is it "progressive with black vocals"? Because it too does not have the best production, yet most things are distinct and it does have a lot of atmosphere.

How about this?
Click to expand...

if a band wants to play live then more often than not they will sacrifice something they achieved on record. That goes for all styles of music and I think everyone knows that. It doesn't really matter in this conversation.

I never set out to define black metal as this very specific, crude thing. I may have beliefs about what it should sound like to me personally based on my observations of the earlier phases of the scene and acquired preferences, but I accept that black metal has a lot of new and different interpretations which I'm not losing any sleep over. I already mentioned and others have echoed that if a certain band wants to be totally unrefined and unhinged, then it is what it is and it should be respected. Black metal tends to be that way because it's a traditional attitude. There are a lot of black metal bands nowadays for people to get into that do receive the focused studio treatment. That's all fine and well. What is not fine to me is the sentiment that "these raw black metal bands should grow up and get into a real studio to convey their incredibly hostile, obscure, and nihilistic message". No one's forcing you to listen them, and of course no one's expecting you to understand why they sound the way they sound.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
MezzoForte said:
if a band wants to play live then more often than not they will sacrifice something they achieved on record. That goes for all styles of music and I think everyone knows that. It doesn't really matter in this conversation.
Click to expand...

It does matter if the bad production on the album is intentional. A lot of bands actually sound better live than in the studio too. Unless it's something that heavily relies on orchestration or multilayered vocal tracks (or the performers themselves require studio magic to actually sound their best), they aren't necessarily giving up anything, and instead replacing it with the live vibe. Prime Iron Maiden is a great example of this.

Many of the black metal bands that have a really bad production (that was intentional and not soley because of a lack of funds), will most certainly sound better live most of the time, unless they go out of their way to sabotage their live performances. Also, I get the whole "attitude" and "themes" aspect of certain genres, but I've never let that influence my enjoyment of music.

I'm also not sure why you bothered to close with your last sentence either, because that's obvious. It should have been more obvious with my opening statement in the post you first replied to. I don't like the way the majority of black metal that I've heard sounds. That's my preference. Then you decide to give your two cents on why you do like it, and that's fine. Now it's as though you're offended because I reiterate not liking the way that sounds.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
MezzoForte said:
you're exactly right about how it sounds, and it's something I and many other listeners would never fault bands like these for. Like I said, the appeal of black metal to me is that it's supposed to magnify hate, isolation, rejection, etc. It's why many recordings of this nature exist, and will continue to be made. When black metal starts to sound too commercial those feelings get lost on me and it ultimately is ineffectual. This is just me, but again it's why I feel people should just accept it for what it is instead of wishing it sounded "better". Albums like March to the Black Holocaust are worshipped because they are the ultimate in the glorification of spite.
Click to expand...

Giant Robot said:
This post made me put on Slaegt - Ildsvanger so I can appreciate the tribute to 2nd wave of black metal. I agree 110% though. I can't stand "overproduced" music in any genre. Part of the anti-overproduction appeal is also the DIY/raw/non commercial attitude. An artist's sound, production, song writing, techniques, whatever is just part of "their sound" and genetic that fits into a narrative.

However, I wish Carcass - Reek of Putrefaction and Immortal - Blizzard Beasts had better production. So many wasted riffs and potential lost in the mud :\
Click to expand...

Personally, I love the Reek of Putrefaction sound. The album wouldn't have the same atmosphere with a cleaner sound, like Symphonies of Sickness has. That being said, I don't think black metal needs to have a lo-fi sound, that is lacking on the lower end of the scale. After all, the first wave of modern BM bands, that existed before the Norwegian wave, had a wide variety of sound styles, often favoring the lower end like Beherit with their downtuned instruments, and Necromantia. I still favor that approach to the one with more treble, as it sounds darker to me and has more kick to it, but it wouldn't fit albums like Under a Funeral Moon.
 
M

MezzoForte

Member
Sanctuary said:
It does matter if the bad production on the album is intentional. A lot of bands actually sound better live than in the studio too. Unless it's something that heavily relies on orchestration or multilayered vocal tracks (or the performers themselves require studio magic to actually sound their best), they aren't necessarily giving up anything, and instead replacing it with the live vibe. Prime Iron Maiden is a great example of this.

Many of the black metal bands that have a really bad production (that was intentional and not soley because of a lack of funds), will most certainly sound better live most of the time, unless they go out of their way to sabotage their live performances. Also, I get the whole "attitude" and "themes" aspect of certain genres, but I've never let that influence my enjoyment of music.

I'm also not sure why you bothered to close with your last sentence either, because that's obvious. It should have been more obvious with my opening statement in the post you first replied to. I don't like the way the majority of black metal that I've heard sounds. That's my preference. Then you decide to give your two cents on why you do like it, and that's fine. Now it's as though you're offended because I reiterate not liking the way that sounds.
Click to expand...

about the live stuff, I'm simply not making the same connection you're making to recordings. I'm not making an assertion that if a band sounds a certain way live it should necessarily translate to anything in the studio environment or vice versa. Black metal being performed live and sounding better or less crude than its on-record version doesn't say to me that the album should have had better production.

Urfaust1200-1.jpg
Click to expand...

S.V.E.S.T. (FRA) - Urfaust

I was looking through Discogs for more French stuff I'm missing and found that this was reissued on LP this year. It happened.

if we're now discussing which types of lo-fi are preferred, I'm pretty partial to the sound of Vlad Tepes' side of March.
 
H

HashtagLapsed

Member
It may have been the venues or engineers involved, but I have found a lot of the more 'underground' bands play at such a loud volume everything turns to mud and is basically inaudible live. Bands like Vomitor, Denouncement Pyre and Whitehorse are fine live, but a lot of other stuff like Impetuous Ritual (and sometimes Portal), Archgoat, Vassafor etc live, while still being an enjoyable experience, end up just sounding like mud and nothing compared to record.

A lot of live bands or people who use harsh noise extensively live like Ben Frost, Swans, My Bloody Valentine etc achieve the effect much better. Not that I am really complaining in any way.

S.V.E.S.T. are a fucking awesome band by the way and the production is perfectly fitting. Still have the EAL releases around here somewhere.

I like this production https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2qZhy65plQ

Also, I dislike a lot of the post-black metal/black gaze stuff. Honestly, I love shoegaze a lot and go to a lot of shows, but I don't want two watered down things that don't really do what either genre really 'does' for me.
 
M

Merkunt

Member
Leatherface said:
Anyone hear of the band VULVODYNIA? I think they are out of South Africa. You should check them out! I'd post the album cover but it's def not safe for work lol. Here is a stream of the album instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DfrRNZp2Ag
Click to expand...

Yeah I heard this last year; some ridiculous ass lyrics and lots of pig squeals, some nice vocals in between but the programmed drums are terrible, whenever the tempo ramps up they simply turn into noise. I wish most of these Slam bands would hire actual drummers, but then it wouldn't really be "Slam" would it?

Slam/10
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
That Vulvodynia art is actually better than most trash in the genre. Granted I'm not looking at a giant version of it but there's some real artless edgelord garbage out there

The opening sample is stupid (shocking). The music is pretty good. Generally I prefer when these bands either go for funny samples or just horror/monster noises. The stupid sex violence shit is the absolute worst, the pinnacle being when they create their own

The curse of liking the most ignorant caveman bullshit out there
 
Z

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Leatherface said:
Anyone hear of the band VULVODYNIA? I think they are out of South Africa. You should check them out! I'd post the album cover but it's def not safe for work lol. Here is a stream of the album instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DfrRNZp2Ag
Click to expand...

Totally sick band and Psychosadistic Design was one of my favorite albums of 2016. The production is so damn heavy and the bass guitar really brings the intensity on that album. It's like someone took the best parts of brutal death metal, deathcore, and slam then put it all in a blender. Also my favorite song of theirs is Umthakathi.
 
Leatherface

Leatherface

Member
Zelenogorsk said:
Totally sick band and Psychosadistic Design was one of my favorite albums of 2016. The production is so damn heavy and the bass guitar really brings the intensity on that album. It's like someone took the best parts of brutal death metal, deathcore, and slam then put it all in a blender. Also my favorite song of theirs is Umthakathi.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is not generally my style of metal but I was taken back by how heavy and well produced it was. It really does sound great. :eek:
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
Okay, Heartless is pretty great, but there's something a bit off, hard to pin down. I feel like they lost a tiny bit of heaviness due to leaning into the epic-prog-doom thing a lot, which isn't bad, because Pallbearer were always about the songwriting. And boy does this record have some godlike melodies.
After a few listens I feel like Foundations of Burden was more to my taste (10/10 really), but this is special nonetheless. Might take a while.
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
Clown_im_OP said:
Okay, Heartless is pretty great, but there's something a bit off, hard to pin down. I feel like they lost a tiny bit of heaviness due to leaning into the epic-prog-doom thing a lot, which isn't bad, because Pallbearer were always about the songwriting. And boy does this record have some godlike melodies.
After a few listens I feel like Foundations of Burden was more to my taste (10/10 really), but this is special nonetheless. Might take a while.
Click to expand...

Lie of Survival, Dancing in Madness, Thorns and A Plea For Understanding are my choice tracks. Dancing and Understanding, especially, are fucking amazing. Feel like lost Floyd tracks in some ways, mixed in with 40 watt sun. Loved it. But yeah, Foundations seemed heavier and a bit more memorable, so far. I need to hear this more though. A lot more.
 
P

parrotbeak

Member
I'm enjoying the new Ulver and will buy the album because i have enjoyed everything they do, but it's really kinda 80s pop. This could have been a Tears for Fears song.
 
S

Spwn

Member
pablito said:
Preordered the white (clear? idk) vinyl right after I listened to this.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's clear. The colored vinyl were marbled gold, gold and clear. So happy I got an order in for the marbled one. Really looking forward to the album – Ulver has been my favourite band since I was 17 and I have all their studio albums on vinyl except Shadows of the Sun (+ their soundtrack work for Svidd Neger and Lycantrophen). Themes From William Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell is the album I treasure the most.

I recommend people check other artists working with House of Mythology. None of the are metal, but I bet some of you would enjoy stuff like Kitchie Kitchie Ki Me O and Hypnopazuzu. I've bought all the albums HOM has put out and have no regrets regarding any of them.
 
C

Conkersbadfurday

Member
Late as hell to the party, but I finally picked up Twilight of the Thunder God. Local comic book store had a copy and I was like "fuck yeah I'll grab this too!"

God this album is so good ._.
 
Q

Quikies83

Member
Corpsepyre said:
Lie of Survival, Dancing in Madness, Thorns and A Plea For Understanding are my choice tracks. Dancing and Understanding, especially, are fucking amazing. Feel like lost Floyd tracks in some ways, mixed in with 40 watt sun. Loved it. But yeah, Foundations seemed heavier and a bit more memorable, so far. I need to hear this more though. A lot more.
Click to expand...

As someone who has followed this band from the beginning, I'm in awe.
Dancing in Madness and A Plea for Understanding are new areas for these guys - floydian, for sure - and wow.. they sounds fantastic.
Lie of Survival shows they are still Pallbearer -- shit is a wall of sound with great melodies.
Fantastic album and I can't wait to see them live again.
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
Fuck I want to climb the highest mountains with that second half of Heartless. They went all out on the epicness. Love it.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
Wormrot cancelled their US tour and thus MDF. At this point the only MDF exclusives I care about are Akercocke and Insect Warfare. Normally I would fly somewhere just for Insect Warfare but I'm about at the point where I just don't want to bother with the fest this year. Everyone else is touring

In lighter news, Danzig is putting out a new album in May that might be called Black Leaden Crown according to Amazon. Deth Red Sabaoth was fantastic, hopefully it delivers.

People on his forum saying June is the 25th anniversary of How The Gods Kill so this summer he'll be playing a handful of shows for it. If feasible I'll definitely try to make that, favorite Danzig record and easily one of my favorite albums in general
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
Corpsepyre said:
Your favourite tracks?
Click to expand...
Hard to say, it kinda varies on a day by day basis at the moment lol. Today I totally dug Cruel Road and Heartless, and I actually found Understanding a tiny bit too long. Love the opener as well; it's not as crushing as Worlds Apart was, but what is. If I had to decide for one favourite right now I would probably choose Dancing in Madness.
 
Gray Matter

Gray Matter

Member
I'm really starting to love live music, the energy in the room while the band(s) is playing is palpable.

That being said, I already went to a concert this year. This week alone I bought tickets to go see roger waters in September and animals as leaders in May. I will also probably go see dream theater when they bring the images, words and beyond tour to the US, and between the buried and me has been teasing a colors 10 year anniversary tour for some time now and that's a tour I will definitely not miss.
 
D

DamagedInc

Member
Gray Matter said:
I'm really starting to love live music, the energy in the room while the band(s) is playing is palpable.

That being said, I already went to a concert this year. This week alone I bought tickets to go see roger waters in September and animals as leaders in May. I will also probably go see dream theater when they bring the images, words and beyond tour to the US, and between the buried and me has been teasing a colors 10 year anniversary tour for some time now and that's a tour I will definitely not miss.
Click to expand...

Go to as many gigs as you can I say, I love live music, my first gig was Monsters of Rock 1988 and I've been hooked ever since, that buzz when the band and crowd are feeding off each other is amazing.
 
Bitanator

Bitanator

Member
I'm really into an old school death metal mood right now, any new bands out that capture that sound really well and not end up sounding like worship bands
 
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