This baying for MM blood arises every now and then and is never any less disgusting. I get it, if people are still upset over Evo or Wipeout or whatever, but looking for the 'next' out of some twisted sense of 'fairness', and out of total ignorance of the different situations involved, is gross.
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I'll give it to Sony, I would have axed Media Molecule/Dreams by now
- Thread starter Mikey Jr.
- Start date
We're talking about mainstream appeal here.
I feel similarly. I really hope Dreams does well so this topic can be bumped and some of these people can choke on their words... that would be delicious.
I'll ask this again but who is asking for it to be closed?
Cave Johnson
Member
I think it's obvious at this point that SONY has allowed their "niche" outlets a set standard and performance each generation in order to continue. While the majority IP'smay not exceed expectations; the chances of getting a hit is much better than having it homogenized like MS. As long as they don't make Sony "lose" money, IP's like TLOU and/or Horizon will appear, providing a diversity portfolio to the players, which, in turn brings more value to the console.
Bioshocker
Member
Tearaway and Unfolded are two amazing games. After those two I trust MM can make something really special again. Having said that, I have no idea what Dreams is about and if it'll even work.
They made some great racing games. Perhaps Sony could have done better with marketing it or timing their releases? Is it entirely evo's fault if they make good games that still don't sell?
Media Molecule is definitely diving into niche stuff, but they have a history of acclaimed titles that sell okay in a niche market. I'd also wager that MM's current project is looked at by higher ups at Sony as half R&D for content generation/user creation for other titles to use down the road.
I don't think Evolution deserved a second chance after Drive Club. It was a solid title racing title, but so was Motorstorm - another franchise they developed... and had a history of missing milestones and missing console launches where they were supposed to supply a big exclusive racing game to show off the new hardware.
For all the delays the studio put upon itself (whether it be through mismanagement or other issues) it's not one I would point to as innocently shuttered by Sony.
travisbickle
Member
I'd be surprised if you can't create tracks for vehicles to drive on considering "vehicle" is one of the categories they persuade you to make in the creation menu.
MM are definitely confident that you make games in this thing. It's there on the main menu, "Games", "Toys", "Movies" (I think Toys will be creations like the calculator in LBP).
Sharing assets is also a big thing, but they definitely want players to view it as assets for a game.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
'I don't know what it is, but I'm happy to bullshit negatively!' if somebody did this same crap in a MS thread, you'd be crying about it.
The whole premise of this 'developer dead pool' is a disgrace, by the way.
Cyborg
Member
Yes 2 millions.............I will leave it up to you if that is good or not.
No its not!
LBP2 has sold a lot and has moved a metric fuckton of DLCs.
Tearaway was a [well reviewed] flop, but that was made by a SMALLER team [~20 people] inside already small MM team.
GT6 sold 5 million and that game released AFTER the PS4 launch, come on now...
Well, GT6 was a fully featured GT game.
GTSport is focused on multi-player/esports and has 1/3 of the car list.
encephalon
Member
If this can do what it seems like it can, I can't wait for it.
Purple_Orchid
Member
For a company that only has about 50 people working in it, they could make a dud game for the next 10/20 years and still be fine.
That figure above doesn't even include the 1000s of pieces of DLC they've released for LBP since 2008.
So yeah.... they're fine.
Considering costumes cost like 50p to a pound they're more than fine.
ronaldthump
Member
dunno. Dreams probably won't be a mega seller either but they do quirky shit and are a tiny studio. They must cover costs with their game sales - and they fill out the kids market area for Sony's library (looked up - oh, they sold a shit ton of LBP, they're gonna be fine)
ronaldthump
Member
I can see dreams selling very well to families with children if the "not create" part with the games is fun. Game looks incredible
Logic tools have been around for a while, they have just been expanding and polishing them for the past year.
Everything in the video is in-game.
It's in the thread title.
Children and any artist type. This looks like a very simple and intuitive 3d modeler/animation maker. 3D modeling and animation seems pretty hard to do, from the videos I've seen its fairly easy to design something somewhat complex. Of course the more effort you put in the more amazing your model can be. On top of that you can export to unity and 3d print you creations, and its a game maker as well. This has the possibility of being very big , from children to architects.
eyeball_kid
Member
I could be misremembering, but though they've been working on sculpting tools for a long time, the gameplay logic tools weren't very far along as of last year. They've only demo'd one real game publicly, and that was for a game jam. It was a very simple walk around and solve simple puzzles type of thing. They did start working on the SP campaign last year yes, but my guess is it will be similar to the stuff they've shown in streams -- sort of interactive puppet theater levels, leaning heavy on atmosphere and whimsy.
If they've already got their tools to a level that lets you build Wipeout in Dreams, well I'll be extremely surprised.
I have no doubt it's in-engine and pre-scripted for E3, but actually game demos? Nah. Where did you hear that those were all real game demos? They haven't shown anything even close to the gameplay complexity of the racing game or soccer game in any of their streams, and I've pretty much watched all of them.
somecrazymember
Banned
lol, no
Polyphony is Gran Turismo right? That's one of Sony's biggest IP's outside the US.
Media Molecule has Little Big Planet which is... not
Aceofspades
Banned
Keep buying your Call of Duty games, they are not going to disappear if we had a couple of new innovative games by MM.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
I see LBP 1-3 DLC all the time in the PSstore. All them licensed sackboys mean they're making bank.
You love calling people fanboys.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I think Dreams could be pretty huge. Look at the success of games like Minecraft and Roblox, the latter of which had around 30 million active monthly users. There is clearly an audience for games focused on creating content.
When this comes out, and if they could make a few bundles, then I could see this driving a lot of hardware sales as well.
Dreams
Dreams + Move controllers
PS4 Slim + Dreams
PS4 Slim + Dreams + Move controllers
When this comes out, and if they could make a few bundles, then I could see this driving a lot of hardware sales as well.
Dreams
Dreams + Move controllers
PS4 Slim + Dreams
PS4 Slim + Dreams + Move controllers
The Dutch Slayer
Member
I think it's amazing as well there was supposed to be a demo in 2016 and nothing.
Also I don't even get yet what this is for a "game".
Also I don't even get yet what this is for a "game".
I think Microsoft would have as well. It's the kind of decision Phil Spencer made with Scalebound and Fable: Legends. A judgement was made on invested funds against predicted profits and so they were canned.
But Sony, like with The Last Guardian, have made a decision that isn't solely about profits. Sony know that TLG and Drive Club and PlayStation Home and perhaps Dreams are never going to be profitable but they add a uniqueness of experience to the PlayStation platform. All these unique experience individually when judged solely on profits are not immediately quantifiable and may be deemed failures, but ultimately they strengthen the brand and bring more people to it.
daTRUballin
Member
Isn't that how pretty much all the major studios operate these days? Development costs have risen up a lot this gen. All major developers are basically slow as hell to release anything.
You mentioned studios like Rare and Retro in your example. Rare's last game was released in 2014 (not counting Rare Replay which was a collection). And who knows if their next game (Sea of Thieves) will be released anytime soon at all. Rare was way more productive last gen. They had at least one game a year released on average last gen, but now it's taking them 3 or more years to release even one game. Same with Retro. Retro's last game was released three years ago as well and their next project hasn't even been announced yet (although, admittedly, Retro has always been like this, so maybe they're not the best example). Rockstar is also taking forever to release games, Naughty Dog, etc. Taking forever to make even one game IS the norm this gen unfortunately.
Even if LBP didn't appeal to me that much, it is a big creative achievement and I can respect that. And although I probably won't play Dreams, I can see it is going to be something special. MM is objectively one of the best studios under Sony and I think people at Sony know that, they won't close them go so easily.
get2sammyb
Member
Dreams is a prestige product. Thanks heavens Sony still sees the value in those, and long may it continue.
Exactly. We've seen them do this again and again, making titles that shouldn't make sense in terms of current market trends and they are often not big sellers, but it's exactly things like that that draws me to their brand.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Sony don't tend to axe projects they've already announced.
xrnzaaas
Member
Sometimes I think that Sony is organizing a russian roulette on which studio gets axed. They had really good studios they've closed down after one or two missteps and meanwhile other studios stay alive for years even if they're not doing such a good job at bringing new exclusives.
Even in the depths of development, years after their last 'big' release, they're making profit (£3.5m last year, similar the year before), and have a strong net asset base.
So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.
Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~£4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.
If £4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than £20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.
So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.
Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~£4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.
If £4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than £20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.
Acquiescence
Member
Yeah this. I always found it weird how many people there are willing to downplay the success of MM's LBP games. Even from the DLC alone, 1 and 2 make bank.
Tearaway and Unfolded flopped, but they were much smaller projects compared to LBP. If Dreams flops on the other hand, then yeah, that would raise some big death flags I imagine. Dreams does not look like a cheap game to develop, and it has been worked on for a long time now.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, LBP1 & 2 sold like 7+ million copies (this is years old data so maybe much more by now) and probably a shit load of DLC as well. Mm has always deliberately been a small studio and I seriously doubt they're bleeding money like the OP implies. Dreams also has the potential to be massive if it's good and Sony market it properly. It looks like an incredibly comprehensive creation tool.
xenorevlis
Member
This is false. All of those examples were functioning using logic tools they borrowed from Little Big Planet. What started last year was make a faster and often times performance driven toolset similar to the recording tools where you can puppeteer animations (something they had available much more than a year ago).
Assumptions and misinformation, fam. There are hours upon hours of archived livestreams you can dive into for information on everything they are doing, including the art director working on his Dreams art in PSVR.