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[GamingPheasant]

British awards for a British studio? Hang them right next to those superb EDGE scores!

BAFTA awards have a lot more pull than EDGE scores, but you're probably snarking.

As for the OP, how do you know the studio is not profitable for the time they been developing Dreams? You've also downplayed their release of Tearaway not to mention all the LBP DLC PlayStation profits from.

As stated before, they seem to have other functions within Sony as a whole:

Because MM have admirer at very high up in Sony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmt4g940_nQ

 

[kyser73]

They haven't released a major title since 2011, and Dreams is commercially nonviable as far as I'm concerned. So they've been paying salaries for 6 years already, with practically no hope that the end result is going to earn back the amount of money spent on the studio. For 50 employees over 6 years, that's around $25 million.

I think the OP's question is very reasonable.

So they spent about 1/4 of the money Stig spunked up the wall, and have still had an ongoing revenue stream through LBP dlc, not to mention LBP 1&2 selling really well.

This thread was a piece of used toilet roll from the OP pulling opinions from his arse, and it hasn't improved.

What's funny is that one person f the main criticisms of Dreams is that it's 'just' a content creator, so when MM actually fully go to work creating the game to go with that content they're taking too long with it, and it doesn't have a mascot hook (which it does, of course - the little furry cursor/pointer thing), it'll be a flop etc.

 

[EVO]

It's not a point and click puzzle game. It's LittleBigPlanet in a 3D space.

It's so much more than that. It's just as much a piece of modelling software as it is a traditional game.

 

[Floody]

Maybe this video explains it better see the first 20 seconds of the video to see the different gameplay varieties you can experience with user generated content.

https://youtu.be/hNSH1vKOK9o

I think I have a good idea of it now. Thanks!
If they deliver with their vision it'd be a really special game I think. I can't wait to see what others make regardless though, some of the stuff people were able to make with LBP were incredible can't imagine what's capable with these tools when it's out in the wild.

 

[msdstc]

https://lbp.me/levels?p=1&l=12

Tons of levels were made for sure. Some from dedicated fans, some from curiosity, and some for the trophies. Make no mistake, this is not WHY it sold so well

 

[ZeoVGM]

What a horribly repugnant thing to say.

He's looking at the situation from a business point of view.

Seeing studios close is terrible, especially when the publisher basically sets them up to fail. But this is not one of those cases.

From a business standpoint, you expect your studios to eventually put out a new game. MM doesn't seem remotely close.

 

[Illucio]

I'm still hungry for another game like Journey from them. That one game some other company made didn't fill me like I hope it would.

 

[funkystudent]

I get you. Mm feel like they are heading for the next SIE studio on the chopping block.


Dreams just seems like a art project with no commercial appeal. Given how quick Sony is with studio shut downs and how much they are downsizing in the UK I just... I have fears for the long term future of that team.

 

[kyser73]

Tons of levels were made for sure. Some from dedicated fans, some from curiosity, and some for the trophies. Make no mistake, this is not WHY it sold so well

Please share your very well evidenced opinion of why it sold so well.

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

Like I said in another thread.. you don't let a studio like MM go. And in that same thread someone pointed out that they do work for Sony as well, other than just game development.

They have been building an engine, not for only just dreams but for the future as well.

Shit takes research and development. That's like saying let's cut these scientists because it's been six years and they haven't cured cancer yet!

However their last game performed, it debuted to critical acclaim. If Dreams doesn't look good to you, or you think it's DOA.. you were probably one of those people that were shocked every time you seen one of the games milestones announced. I know I was. I wasn't buying LBP dlc, or creating millions of games using it. It had its audience, made a ton of money, now they've moved.

I hope Dreams finds its audience and think it will..
but shutdown!? Crazy talk.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

For anyone that still doesn't know about dreams gameplay variety:

 

[ZeoVGM]

You can't be serious. Axe the geniuses that brought you LittleBigPlanet? Can't wait for Dreams to release to put shit like this to rest.

Literally no one in the industry can emulate the kinds of experiences that MM creates and when you're trying to differentiate yourself from your competitors, having MM in your back pocket gives you a huge leg up

Except Nintendo literally did exactly that -- and made a better playing game in the process.

 

[FusedAtoms]

The stuff MM puts out is so unique and different and I believe it was Shuhei Yoshida who talked about how important it was that Sony's first party output and third party exclusives were unique . Getting rid of such talented devs would be the biggest mistake they could make and quite frankly a sad day for the industry. It makes me feel kind of weird that people want other people to lose there jobs, especially people that do such great work.

 

[Elfstruck]

Tons of levels were made for sure. Some from dedicated fans, some from curiosity, and some for the trophies. Make no mistake, this is not WHY it sold so well

How would you know that?

 

[HueyFreeman]

First, I feel like it's callous to talk about how a team of people should lose their jobs because of your interpretation of its business value. Which is almost certainly erroneous. But second thank god Sony has a more elevated view of the medium than you - no art would ever go anywhere if publishers like Sony didn't take creative and financial risks like last guardian or MM projects. It's a shame to find people talking about it like it has no value other than it's monetary value.

 

[Usobuko]

I rather Sony take the hit financially if they had to.

I see a lot of value of aesthetically pleasant and content creating game, especially for kids.

 

[msdstc]

Please share your very well evidenced opinion of why it sold so well.

Common sense, sorry if you don't understand how this works. You need something marketable. The Sackboy was adorable and people loved it. This was on full display with how sony was using him on everything and everywhere, even giving the sackboy his own kart racer.

Content generators have always existed in gaming and they've always been niche. People don't pay money to make games in big numbers, I'm sorry they just don't. So unless MM has something great up their sleeve in terms of a hook I don't see this doing well at all, unfortunately similar to tearaway AND tearaway unfolded.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Tearaway is beautiful and if would be a shame if MM were shut down.


Dreams seems cool whatever it is lol

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

You don't have access to the same knowledge about the project that Sony does. Stupid thread.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

I hope it was shifted to vr bc that's the only format that makes sense for that game.

100

 

[Replicant]

What a vile comment to make.

We have no idea what makes profit or considered success by Sony. Moreover, Dreams look like an interesting game. It'd diversify Sony's portfolio, which is what they always set out to do. If they didn't take risk, they'd never get something like Uncharted, LBP, ICO, TLOU, Horizon, etc.

 

[Elfstruck]

Common sense, sorry if you don't understand how this works. You need something marketable. The Sackboy was adorable and people loved it. This was on full display with how sony was using him on everything and everywhere, even giving the sackboy his own kart racer.

Content generators have always existed in gaming and they've always been niche. People don't pay money to make games in big numbers, I'm sorry they just don't. So unless MM has something great up their sleeve in terms of a hook I don't see this doing well at all, unfortunately similar to tearaway AND tearaway unfolded.

So it's coming from your ass. lol

 

[msdstc]

What a vile comment to make.

We have no idea what makes profit or considered success by Sony. Moreover, Dreams look like an interesting game. It'd diversify Sony's portfolio, which is what they always set out to do. If they didn't take risk, they'd never get something like Uncharted, LBP, ICO, TLOU, Horizon, etc.

Not that I disagree that it would be sad to see the studio shuttered... why do you think sony closed Evolution, and Zipper, and incognito, and liverpool, and guerilla cambridge?

 

[kyser73]

Common sense, sorry if you don't understand how this works. You need something marketable. The Sackboy was adorable and people loved it. This was on full display with how sony was using him on everything and everywhere, even giving the sackboy his own kart racer.

Content generators have always existed in gaming and they've always been niche. People don't pay money to make games in big numbers, I'm sorry they just don't. So unless MM has something great up their sleeve in terms of a hook I don't see this doing well at all, unfortunately similar to tearaway AND tearaway unfolded.

So your opinion then, no real evidence. Thanks.

 

[msdstc]

So it's coming from your ass. lol

Why does mario sell well? Why didn't tearaway sell well? We don't have all the answers, but you can safely assume when something sells for one reason or another. I'm not rooting for the game to tank, but I'll bookmark this post to say I told you so.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I still don't even know what that games is supposed to be. I forgot all about it until you mentioned it.

 

[kyser73]

Why does mario sell well? Why didn't tearaway sell well? We don't have all the answers, but you can safely assume when something sells for one reason or another. I'm not rooting for the game to tank, but I'll bookmark this post to say I told you so.

So you feel even before any actual marketing or the full game itself has been revealed it lacks any of the qualities that IYO made LBP a successful franchise?

 

[VanWinkle]

I love MM. I'm so glad Sony is keeping them alive, but MAN, what in the world. Dreams. Like, I got so excited when I saw the first trailer. Since then it's been years and I haven't seen one thing make me excited.

They announced/showed off the game YEARS too early. MM makes fun games to play and I have seen zero indication that this is a fun game to play yet.

I do feel like this game could very easily close down the studio, unless it somehow succeeds commercially, which I have a hard time believing.

 

[msdstc]

So you feel even before any actual marketing or the full game itself has been revealed it lacks any of the qualities that IYO made LBP a successful franchise?

absolutely, because the hype on LBP went through the roof due to a GDC trailer that showed 0 UGC aspects. It simply showed the adorable mascot, the simple gameplay, the co-op, and that was it.

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm out. This is a disgusting topic. Really rubs me the wrong way.

This.

And to the person who thinks MM should have been canned already, as a project manager myself, you wouldn't last a month.

I can't believe people are desiring the closure of talented studios.

W..T...F...

 

[msdstc]

This.

And to the person who thinks MM should have been canned already, as a project manager myself, you wouldn't last a month.

I can't believe people are desiring the closure of talented studios.

W..T...F...

Is anybody hoping the studio closes? People are simply discussing the current status of the studio. It's a completely fair discussion given the closures of other studios over the past few years.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Sony needs games like Dream and The Last Guardian. These are the exclusives that set they PS4 apart and make it stand out. Not AAA games that you can also get elsewhere.

 

[Wishmaster92]

For anyone that still doesn't know about dreams gameplay variety:

The tech in this game.....i seriously can't wait for it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

You don't have access to the same knowledge about the project that Sony does. Stupid thread.

When people were upset and giving Sony hell for shutting down Liverpool, were you telling them their posts were stupid because they didn't have the same knowledge about Liverpool that they did?

 

[Replicant]

Not that I disagree that it would be sad to see the studio shuttered... why do you think sony closed Evolution, and Zipper, and incognito, and liverpool, and guerilla cambridge?

I personally don't know. Maybe it's lack of both financial OR critical return? Obviously it's still business but I think you'd have to weigh the up and down of closing a company and losing hundreds of employees. Unless it's really dire, I don't see why you would do it. In this case, MM hasn't earned that kind of bad reputation.

 

[kyser73]

absolutely, because the hype on LBP went through the roof due to a GDC trailer that showed 0 UGC aspects. It simply showed the adorable mascot, the simple gameplay, the co-op, and that was it.

And there's literally no way that could happen with Dreams?

If your argument is that it only takes one trailer presented in a specific way to spark hype, and given that outside of Dreams threads no one knows a damn thing about the game, why can't the same kind of trailer for Dreams deliver the same result?

 

[msdstc]

I don't know. Maybe it's lack of both financial OR critical return? Obviously it's still business but I think you'd have to weigh the up and down of closing a company and losing hundreds of employees. Unless it's really dire, I don't see why you would do it. In this case, MM hasn't earned that kind of bad reputation.

AFAIK driveclub sold well ultimately including the massive amount of DLC that they put out. The motorstorm series typically sold well also. Also Guerilla put out arguably the most complete PSVR game and one of the better reviewed on the platform, while also putting out one of the better vita titles in Killzone Mercenary which was fantastic.

And there's literally no way that could happen with Dreams?

If your argument is that it only takes one trailer presented in a specific way to spark hype, and given that outside of Dreams threads no one knows a damn thing about the game, why can't the same kind of trailer for Dreams deliver the same result?

I've been saying the whole time that IF they have a hook, and so far their hook is "hey look you can make whatever you want!" That's cool and all, but the average gamer simply doesn't care. please try to refrain from quoting this and saying "I care", because the point is regarding mainstream appeal. This game was revealed fully 2 years ago, we got a glimpse of it a few years before that at the ps4 reveal, and yet we still haven't seen anything that resembles a true grab that can sell the game.

I've never said one video can't turn it around, my point has been from the very beginning- content generation does not sell games 99.9% of the time. LBP did not sell or generate hype from it's create aspect... that was a cool factor, but it would've sold fine without it. The sackboy has become a recognizable face for sony and rightfully so.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Can't see them being around after dreams flops.

 

[msdstc]

And there's literally no way that could happen with Dreams?

If your argument is that it only takes one trailer presented in a specific way to spark hype, and given that outside of Dreams threads no one knows a damn thing about the game, why can't the same kind of trailer for Dreams deliver the same result?

Id also like to add that UGC dropped dramatically from one game to another. LBP1 had millions of levels, where 2 dropped way off this number. This is further evidence that people bought the game mainly for one reason. That's not to say there wasn't a strong community of builders, because those same people stuck around and really built some amazing content. Still they were the niche part of LBP

 

[eyeball_kid]

For anyone that still doesn't know about dreams gameplay variety:

Hypothetical gameplay variety. Most of that stuff in the E3 trailer was jazz hands. They only started working on the gameplay logic tools last year. As of last year they could build simple puzzle adventure things and that's about it. And controls were very floaty.

I mean I really want them to succeed, but what they've proposed is basically to create a full IDE that's usable by non-coders to create everything from a FPS game to a sports game to a racing game. That doesn't seem realistic. I would keep your expectations for the actual game-making capabilities of Dreams to a modest level. I would not expect something like the fast-paced racing game they showed in the trailer to ever be buildable in Dreams. Not if they plan to ship it in the next year or two.

It's best to think of Dreams as an interactive art environment with amazing sculpting, asset sharing, and collaboration tools, because that's where it will shine.

 

[Card Boy]

If Rare can exist so can Media Molecule.

Current Rare is still better than the floaty physics crap MM produce.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

I think is really good that Sony likes experimental games like LBP, the last guardian, tearaway... But the problem here is that I can't​ see any game in Dreams but a set of tools for creation...

 

[msdstc]

Hypothetical gameplay variety. Most of that stuff in the E3 trailer was jazz hands. They only started working on the gameplay logic tools last year. As of last year they could build simple puzzle adventure things and that's about it. And controls were very floaty.

I mean I really want them to succeed, but what they've proposed is basically to create a full IDE that's usable by non-coders to create everything from a FPS game to a sports game to a racing game. That doesn't seem realistic. I would keep your expectations for the actual game-making capabilities of Dreams to a modest level. I would not expect something like the fast-paced racing game they showed in the trailer to ever be buildable in Dreams. Not if they plan to ship it in the next year or two.

It's best to think of Dreams as an interactive art environment with amazing sculpting, asset sharing, and collaboration tools, because that's where it will shine.

That's what it seems like they're banking on, and if so they're in trouble.

 

[potatohead]

Mms game is about something beyond just videogames even more so than gt sport

It is creating a virtual and 3d canvas

That doesn't even exist yet and can potentially have vr support on ps platforms

There is something Sony is looking at here from an investment perspective I'm sure

 

[Tratorn]

I mean, they've closed down entire Dev studios for less. I mean, yeah, drive club didn't set the world on fire and it had problems, but give em a second chance for fuck sakes. At least they put out a game on the ps4.

Second chance? DriveClub was the third already after MS1...
MS1 did very well (it was heavily bundled and a launch title though).
But after that MS2 sold far less already, you couldn't say more than "decent". Then MS:Apocalypse bombed hard and Sony still gave them all this money for their PS4 game.

Considering all this I can't say I'm surprised about their closure.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Hypothetical gameplay variety. Most of that stuff in the E3 trailer was jazz hands. They only started working on the gameplay logic tools last year. As of last year they could build simple puzzle adventure things and that's about it. And controls were very floaty.

Are you serious? I thought I heard they had been working on the tools and stuff most of the time and stated working on the actual single player campaign last year?

 

[msdstc]

Are you serious? I thought I heard they had been working on the tools and stuff most of the time and stated working on the actual single player campaign last year?

They've been talking about the campaign for quite some time now, but we've yet to see anything official. Maybe an e3 re-reveal?

 

[SMOK3Y]

British awards for a British studio? Hang them right next to those superb EDGE scores!

Same as acadamy awards for all those US actors movies etc...

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

That's what it seems like they're banking on, and if so they're in trouble.

How do you know? You got all the shooters a man or woman ask for in life. Open world games up the ass. A plethora of indie games, side scrollers and what not etc. no shortage of sports, rpgs or adventure games...
MM doesn't have to make a game in these genres dude.

There is a void to fill. Dreams looks cool and I'm there day 1. If you can't learn to be open minded and try new stuff, you're the one in trouble. (Not you specifically just in general)

 

[ScientificPizza]

And I don't think it's a stretch to say Rare spent an entire generation making mostly dogshit, but they still exist.

I think that absolutely is a stretch