SomedayTheFire
Member
man, i'm glad a lot of y'all have no input to sony's (any other other publishers) business.
Jesus, Evolution were bleeding.
Jesus, Evolution were bleeding.
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I'll give it to Sony, I would have axed Media Molecule/Dreams by now
- Thread starter Mikey Jr.
- Start date
SomedayTheFire
Member
edit: double post sorry
This is a big selling point of the game for sure.
Blueingreen
Member
Lol silly thread, MM are a small Dev team as far as AAA studios go, their games cost peanuts to make and besides selling well for the most part are still highly profitable due to DLC. It also helps that their games review extremely well contrary to what the vocal minority cult of GAF believes, like are you serious?
There is a reason why Sony scooped them up back in 2010, they're not R@D dropping a 40 million dollar
turd that's both a critical and commercial flop, or Evolution who were so incompetent in their development cycles despite releasing somewhat solid games, axing Media Molecule to appease ignorant ill-informed Internet forum dwellers is possibly the worst thing Sony can do in regards to their development houses.
There is a reason why Sony scooped them up back in 2010, they're not R@D dropping a 40 million dollar
modest estimate
User generated content.
Possibly. I think it's lacking the aspects that made those games so huge, but we'll see. Hopefully we see more at E3.
I guess its pretty much justified why they are still up an running pretty well, but just another point towards the importance Media Molecule has when it comes to R&D and tech advancements within SIE
Sony has something called the PlayStation Magic Lab, its helmed by Dr Richard Marks, which most will know as the ''father'' of PS Move and PSVR. For many years he had Anton Mikhailov as a partner there at Magic Labs doing R&D for a bunch of stuff and really pushing PlayStation hardware to the edge, but since 2015 Anton has joined Media Molecule to work on Dreams UI and creation tools
This is a guy who was the co-creator of one of the most innovative PlayStation hardwares ever, and now he is working on Dreams at MM. I think that points how much Sony cherishes this company and this project...
this too lol
Sony has something called the PlayStation Magic Lab, its helmed by Dr Richard Marks, which most will know as the ''father'' of PS Move and PSVR. For many years he had Anton Mikhailov as a partner there at Magic Labs doing R&D for a bunch of stuff and really pushing PlayStation hardware to the edge, but since 2015 Anton has joined Media Molecule to work on Dreams UI and creation tools
This is a guy who was the co-creator of one of the most innovative PlayStation hardwares ever, and now he is working on Dreams at MM. I think that points how much Sony cherishes this company and this project...
this too lol
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I think they just fucked up the marketing for Dreams. No one wants a game to make a game/world.
We want a game to play. Sure give us tools to build a level or map. But don't forget that people won't pay 60 bucks for just a map/level editor.
We want a game to play. Sure give us tools to build a level or map. But don't forget that people won't pay 60 bucks for just a map/level editor.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I kinda agree with this. Fuck Gravity Rush.
semiconscious
Member
frankly, no, & not seeing the minecraft comparison, either. basically because minecraft can simply be played as a game, as well as used as a design tool. & i have no idea what dreams, simply as a game, is exactly. do you?...
i feel that the zen simplicity of littlebigplanet ended up giving way to the perhaps technically superior, but soulless, vapidly 'witty' lbp2, & that anything good about tearaway was also damaged by this same failed attempt at narrative cleverness...
i really loved littlebigplanet. i haven't played anything by media molecule since that's impressed me even half as much. & it's still not clear to me exactly what 'playing dreams' entails, so, no, i'm not really all that hopeful, or excited, at all
...Not probably. Sooner or later?? Ofc if later is in 20+y who knows...really people
But they haven't fucked up the marketing for Dreams, it hasn't even started lol. They have said multiple times that there is going to be a story/game and they will show it when they are ready.
Many don't know this. MM develops a LOT of PlayStation's proprietary tech (along with Naughty Dog and London).
When Anton moved to MM, I knew magical stuff was going down behind the scenes. MM isn't going anywhere and for good reason. Studios like MM must exist. For they are beneficial for the health of the video games industry as a whole I feel. Studios like this are vital and you'd be a fool not to support and nurture new talent like this.
JayWood2010
Member
I assume you replied to me before I edited. Read it again.
Just because a game has Play, create, share doesnt mean it is good. Project Spark also had "limitless potential."
A lot of what made LittleBigPlanet a good game, was that it was a good game first and foremost. It was also charming. You can say the same with Mario Maker. Dreams, again from what i have seen, does not look like a good game. It didnt look charming either.
I am pretty sure the game will have a regular single player campaign just like LBP.
somecrazymember
Banned
Even in the depths of development, years after their last 'big' release, they're making profit (£3.5m last year, similar the year before), and have a strong net asset base.
So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.
Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~£4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.
If £4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than £20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.
I'm such a big fan of LBP 1&2. I really think MM could have continued further on the LBP franchise, with full3D like Dreams but still with the LBP characters
Jarod McChicken
Member
DUDE. I never knew the financial results of individual Sony studios were published, thanks for that. I guess this is only for british companies ?
yeah, its a UK Company Law thing.
Chobel
Member
Damn! MM isn't going anywhere by the looks of this.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Stifle original work in favor of MOAR SEQUELS! That's the spirit!
Why is everyone SO certain that Dreams is going to fail?
i was so excited for this when i kept seeing it at conferences. was so disappointed when i finally tried it.
i would love to see it get another shot, though and it is a perfect fit for VR.
i'm assuming the "details" around the game and the footage available.
shiftplusone
Member
Stop calling things mmos that aren't MMOs
Triggerhappytel
Member
This is an awful post. Glad you're not in charge. The writing was on the wall for Evolution as the MotorStorm games sold more poorly with each instalment, and then Driveclub was fucked by its launch issues. Studio Liverpool was handled badly as they should have been allowed to make games in other genres rather than being anchored to the dying racing genre, but I don't know whether that would be the fault of studio heads or upper corporate management. Edit - as for GG Cambridge, it was a shame to see their fate tied to niche hardware, and that's almost certainly on corporate people telling them they needed to make a VR game.
But Project Spark was purely a creation tool, was it not? Dreams will have single-player pre-built content in a campaign a la LittleBigPlanet, and it's obviously going to be a bigger deal than Spark was. It's not a valid comparison. There are plenty of videos of Mm building and playing scenarios in Dreams if you check their social media. The marketing for the game just hasn't begun in earnest so we haven't been bombarded with trailers etc just yet. Let's see what the beta brings.
QuantumZebra
Member
Even in the depths of development, years after their last 'big' release, they're making profit (£3.5m last year, similar the year before), and have a strong net asset base.
So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.
Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~£4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.
If £4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than £20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.
Can we edit OP's post and put this post in its place?
This thread was shit and at this point we're all just stirring the shit.
MM is going nowhere - they're prized at Sony.
I don't see it hitting Minecraft numbers by any means, but I don't think anyone saw Minecraft hitting Minecraft numbers either. Depending on how robust and flexible the creation, sculpting, and animation tools are, and how strong community/dev support is, I could see it doing very well. Without a doubt a very slow-burn title, with word-of-mouth and social media marketing. All it would take is a couple decent games and a really good movie made with it and I think it will start to take off.
Sorry what? Lets close this insanely creative studio so we can make a multiplayer FPS!
Because that's working out so well for Microsoft.
JayWood2010
Member
Project Spark had singleplayer if I remember correctly. And how is it obvious? It seems to have poor reception. There was plenty of videos of Project Spark too.
Maybe future reveals can change things, but as of this moment it doesn't look appealing.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Even in the depths of development, years after their last 'big' release, they're making profit (£3.5m last year, similar the year before), and have a strong net asset base.
So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.
Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~£4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.
If £4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than £20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.
Nice post. I added it to my op.
Chronospherics
Member
I'm of the impression that provided a studio is profitable they get whatever creative freedoms they want.
When Dreams releases and can't recoupe the costs of that 6 year development time then I think Sony will have a closer look at the studio and insist on providing a little more creative guidance.
Again, I'm of the impression that Sony's Studio's are liable to lose their creative liberties before simply being axed. With Dreams I imagine MM were in a position where they can produce whatever they want.
Most of Sony's studios have been given second chances before being closed. Look at Evolution for instance, Motorstorm Apocalypse Underperformed, then Driveclub too, that's two games and over 8 years of game dev that essentially didn't result in profit.
Some Studios have received rougher treatment, however. Studio Liverpool for instance, produced Wipeout HD Fury for the PS3, one of the best rated games on the platform, then Wipeout 2048 on the Vita, again one of the best rated games on the platform.
Neither of those games were a huge success, despite critical acclaim, hardly the studios fault, yet they weren't given another chance. I imagine Sony looked at what Evolution were doing and figured they already had a considerable investment in the racing genre, and wanted to scale back. Perhaps Studio Liverpool had the opportunity to pitch something but failed to deliver anything Sony would want to produce.
Still, I do agree with the OP, while I wouldn't have closed the studio already. I have been thinking for a long time that Dreams will be Media Molecules doom. They're a studio built upon having unrestricted creative freedom, so when it fails what do Sony do? They can't really constrict their creative process to ensure they produce more appealing games, because that's not what Media Molecules games are about, and allowing them the same creative freedom would be a liability.
I forsee layoffs if Dreams doesn't deliver, Sony may allow them to continue as a smaller studio and produce another game (similar to what happened with Evolution and Motorstorm RC) but I don't see much commercial success in Dreams. It doesn't convey it's ideas clearly enough that your average Joe will get it, and want to play it. Even children may find it difficult to relate to the games abstract presentation, unlike with LBP which was built around a familiar genre.
That's the difference really. LBP had a hook that consumers would immediately 'get', at it's heart it's a platformer and consumers understand that. All of its additional creative elements are built around, layered on top of that point of entry that everyone can relate to. So it makes sense, people understand what the game is trying to do because they understand its genre, they understand platformers therefore they understand the potential of its creative toolkit in creating them. Dreams lacks that, you look at it's trailers and you return confused. Is this a game? How do you play it? Does it look fun? Those questions are clear with LBP, but not with Dreams and I feel that's where it will lose a sizable chunk of LBP's previous market.
When Dreams releases and can't recoupe the costs of that 6 year development time then I think Sony will have a closer look at the studio and insist on providing a little more creative guidance.
Again, I'm of the impression that Sony's Studio's are liable to lose their creative liberties before simply being axed. With Dreams I imagine MM were in a position where they can produce whatever they want.
Most of Sony's studios have been given second chances before being closed. Look at Evolution for instance, Motorstorm Apocalypse Underperformed, then Driveclub too, that's two games and over 8 years of game dev that essentially didn't result in profit.
Some Studios have received rougher treatment, however. Studio Liverpool for instance, produced Wipeout HD Fury for the PS3, one of the best rated games on the platform, then Wipeout 2048 on the Vita, again one of the best rated games on the platform.
Neither of those games were a huge success, despite critical acclaim, hardly the studios fault, yet they weren't given another chance. I imagine Sony looked at what Evolution were doing and figured they already had a considerable investment in the racing genre, and wanted to scale back. Perhaps Studio Liverpool had the opportunity to pitch something but failed to deliver anything Sony would want to produce.
Still, I do agree with the OP, while I wouldn't have closed the studio already. I have been thinking for a long time that Dreams will be Media Molecules doom. They're a studio built upon having unrestricted creative freedom, so when it fails what do Sony do? They can't really constrict their creative process to ensure they produce more appealing games, because that's not what Media Molecules games are about, and allowing them the same creative freedom would be a liability.
I forsee layoffs if Dreams doesn't deliver, Sony may allow them to continue as a smaller studio and produce another game (similar to what happened with Evolution and Motorstorm RC) but I don't see much commercial success in Dreams. It doesn't convey it's ideas clearly enough that your average Joe will get it, and want to play it. Even children may find it difficult to relate to the games abstract presentation, unlike with LBP which was built around a familiar genre.
That's the difference really. LBP had a hook that consumers would immediately 'get', at it's heart it's a platformer and consumers understand that. All of its additional creative elements are built around, layered on top of that point of entry that everyone can relate to. So it makes sense, people understand what the game is trying to do because they understand its genre, they understand platformers therefore they understand the potential of its creative toolkit in creating them. Dreams lacks that, you look at it's trailers and you return confused. Is this a game? How do you play it? Does it look fun? Those questions are clear with LBP, but not with Dreams and I feel that's where it will lose a sizable chunk of LBP's previous market.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
"Sony defends innovation and talent"!
*closes the biggest studio who made a killer VR game for them*
Well, Dreams seems to be positioned more as a engine or toolset than traditional game. Maybe Sony's marketing and such will be focused on creators, like how Epic focuses on devs for Unreal engine and not the people who play Unreal games. If Sony can sell creators on the tools, then maybe the content they create can sell the game to consumers.
That actually makes me curious... what if Sony sells Dreams as a platform, not a game? Like you just buy "Created in Dreams" stuff from PSN, and can download the Dreams toolset for free? That would be interesting.
Mikey Jr.
Member
I really don't have much faith that you can create any genre in dreams.
eyeball_kid
Member
Source for this? I find it very hard to believe that racing game was a fully functional game and not just scripted animations. And yes I've watched all the streams. I'm very impressed by Dreams, but for its artistic capabilities, not its gameplay.
I was impressed with the cleverness used to make the 'games' I played in LBP, but they had floaty, janky controls and weren't really things I'd want to seek out and play. I'm expecting Dreams to be the same way. I certainly at least expect to be impressed by the cleverness of people's creations.
... Ok but that doesn't really change anything I wrote, and not to mention you can already create a ton of genres in LBP2.
Yeah maybe Guerilla Games might not use Dreams to make Horizon 2, but I bet you could make a fantastic 3D platformer, SRPG, racing, VN, football, TPS, etc with it
daTRUballin
Member
If Microsoft is actually serious about those franchises and actually markets them well, it could very well happen. Also, why do you think a new game in those franchises would bomb today? What are you basing this off of? The fact of the matter is that there hasn't been an actual Banjo or Conker game for us to use as a basis for the sales of the next title in the series at all. The last Conker title was a censored remake with a butchered multiplayer that came out at the end of the OG Xbox's life. The last Banjo title wasn't even a platformer in the same vein as the original games. Not to mention both games came out without any sort of marketing worth a damn.
Until a new Banjo or Conker platformer actually comes out and bombs, we can't say for certain whether a future game in either of these franchises will bomb or not.
You meant RE7? lol
Dreams has a great potential of being a big push for VR, it's not just a case of artistic integrity. On a business point of view, Sony kinda
needs it (to be quite honest, not just Sony VR division, but pretty much the entire VR industry, they need whatever novelty comes out to give them even the slightest bit of traction).
almost desperately
TheRealTalker
Banned
MM is the new "GG got to get shut down"