It's kinda ridiculous how much better the Priest quest is compared to all of the revealed quests so far. It feels like they just designed the Priest one first and then realized that they need to make quests for every class so they just threw together something for each of them. I expect there to only be around 3 or 4 viable quests when they're all done. Probably Priest, Warlock, Mage and something else.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Please point out which jade card is effectively do nothing, sap your board and similar kind of trash.
cards like a better Cairne, taunts and weapons are far from useless trash.
i misread it as redemption. my bad
slightconfuse
Banned
How does the shaman legendary work? It a discover or is it random ?
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
At least rogue quest doesn't take 10 turns to activate a mostly anti-agro card like Priest quest does.
Jade cards are unique in that you don't need to play them together or in the same turn to make them go from mediocre to insane.
They are better than even something like Dragon because the effect of Jades is global.
I guess this Rogue effect is global too but the effect is capped. And it purposely restricts you from playing larger minions so you need a bunch of weenies to make this quest work. Where as with Jades, the effect gets stronger with each additional Jade you use so you have more incentive to play the cards. In addition, you need some of the cards to be played in a certain sequence or combo to pull off the quest. There's more potential for brick draws here.
A better example would be Secret Paladin. You are playing a bunch of mediocre cards to get a blow out turn in the game that you can win off of. But even in Secret Paladin you aren't actually losing tempo from playing those secrets early where as with this Rogue deck you definitely lose tempo trying to do all these combos (or you are losing card advantage if you are using stuff like Shadowstep) and then play a 5 mana card that does nothing by itself. MC at its worst is still a 6 mana 6/6.
Redemption isn't even garbo. It's legit one of my favorite cards from the classic set.
If Tirion or some other nice taunt is in my hand, picking Redemption could be pretty nice.
"Join our beach-side explorers, Game Designer Dean "Iksar" Ayala and Hearthstones premier caster Brian "Brian Kibler" Kibler on March 24 at 6 a.m. PDT for the expedition of a lifetime. Tune in to learn about the creation and balance of cards in Journey to UnGoro embark on the quest to discover giant dinosaurs, crackling elementals, and lethal flora. . . as well as another batch of new cards from UnGoro!"
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I wonder why they didn't just make crystal core a 5/5 minion itself to make the card a little more consistent.
Another card reveal stream?
That's how it has been for the other quest cards.
Every other quest card gives you some tempo on the board for playing it along with some additional effect.
Shaman - Puts a huge Murloc in play and gives you card advantage.
Warlock - Puts 2 3/2 Demons on the board and then gives you 3/2 demons for the rest of the game.
Priest - Puts a giant minion on board and heals you for full.
Good fucking question.
Dahbomb's analysis above makes me wonder. Every quest so far except this one has given a 5 mana minion that does something amazing. The warlock one is unkillable and spawns 2 3/2 imp, the paladin one supposedly adapts 5 times, the priest one is a super Reno, and the shaman one is a super murloc. Yet Rogue gets a 5 mana effect only? Does it even work on the minions already out on the board? That would be the only reason I can see to not make it a minion. You could somehow get hella charge damage off it that way. Although even this way it doesn't prevent that. I have no idea what they were thinking there.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The only bad Jade card being played is Jade Spirit though, maybe also behemoth.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You're making way too many assumptions here, along with some rather hasty dismissals. Wisp is just one example of a card that could make it easy to activate or benefit from the quest. I actually think the wisp idea is elegant because if you manage to activate it on turn 5 with wisp, you can play the quest immediately or with prep. Wisp is a "bad" card in the context of a deck that cannot fully utilize a 0 mana minion. Just like paladin secrets were before mysterious challenger. Hell, even gadgetzan ferryman is potentially good here because after the portal is activated, maybe bouncing a minion is not necessary or perhaps even detrimental. Jury is still out on that, but it's a consideration.
Back to novice engineer, this I think will be a very strong card to use. Play novice and shadowstep. Next turn maybe novice and bounce back to hand with brewmaster. Cycling your deck while completing the quest should be strong, along with the van cleef synergy I mentioned earlier which is a time tested way to activate van cleef.
And your questions are basically asking for answers to metagame calls that no one can predict at this point. No deck lists exist at this point. Several staple miracle rogue cards are being cycled and many new cards and mechanics are being introduced.
I think this rogue quest can be built to be activated faster than any other quest we've seen so far. The minimum amount of cards required to activate it is just 5. The shaman one is close, if not faster assuming call in the finishers.
Also people bringing up jade again. It's hard to say how fast the deck will be at activating the quest on average. I'd say fairly fast tbh. Jade usually doesn't ramp up that fast and this deck is going to move much faster than jade will. Jade is typically not a problem for rogue, and I think this deck will have even more interesting tool possibilities. One would be vanish which can set back a jade deck to an empty board while rogue replays their cheap minions filling the board with 5/5s on their side. Even devolve won't do much as they presumably remain 5/5s after devolve.
So you are playing a deck with Shadowsteps, Novice Engineers, Wisps, Gadgetzan Ferrymans, Brewmasters, Shadowcasters, Vanish, Preps, expensive draw cards/cycles.... all to just maybe push out some 5/5s?
Nope not going to get roped into this again. Last expansion someone here convinced me that Madam Goya wasn't a terrible card, nah I am going to stand by my guts. That Rogue quest isn't good enough based on our current knowledge of cards. It might change if we see more support of course but right now I am going to say nope to it.
Nope not going to get roped into this again. Last expansion someone here convinced me that Madam Goya wasn't a terrible card, nah I am going to stand by my guts. That Rogue quest isn't good enough based on our current knowledge of cards. It might change if we see more support of course but right now I am going to say nope to it.
Fortunately Argent Horserider is retiring. The cost to play this is really high and the reward is not great unless you just have nutty card draw. Legitimate aggro decks will crush meme decks like this. Good luck fumbling around copying cards while your opponent just wails on you. Wanting something to be a 5/5 body is pretty limiting in what you can run...like what is even really strong with that outside of low cost charge minions? The consistency and strength of 2x Kok'ron is already substantially better than trying to goof out Stonetusk Boars or whatever with this late game. If you just want to buff Charge minions out of Rogue the only thing that matters is Cold Blood anyways. If the goal is flooding the board with 5/5 bodies after turn 6 or whatever...good luck with that...
Yeah, it's like when people first saw Anyfin and thought it would be used in a full-on Murloc deck. When in reality you only needed Warleaders, Bluegills and Murk Eye (RIP) for the spell to be effective.
If the Rogue quest is playable, it will be in a deck like Murloc Paladin where you run the bare minimum of synergistic cards.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So if it loses to pirate warrior it must be bad. Gotcha.
I think you certainly need to evaluate consistency vs power, like with any deck.
Ok Discard Lock, regular Mircoli with Cold Blood Leeroy burst finisher, Handlock (because I can still pump out 6/6s with Jaraxxus against a deck with no real burst), Jade Druid, Jade Shaman, Jade Rogue, Nzoth Rogue, some generic aggro Paladin deck, generic beast Hunter aggro deck, generic Murloc deck....
Yeah I can beat that bounce Rogue deck with those cards based on current information. Rogue still does not have the defense or the heals to play that type of combo/value oriented game plan against the standard decks that HS has pumped out over the years.
I bet I can beat that deck with my jank Fatigue Druid in STANDARD.
Yeah I can beat that bounce Rogue deck with those cards based on current information. Rogue still does not have the defense or the heals to play that type of combo/value oriented game plan against the standard decks that HS has pumped out over the years.
I bet I can beat that deck with my jank Fatigue Druid in STANDARD.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You're just being flippant at this point. No point in discussing if you assume every deck ever beats it without any information.
You're even assuming this is a combo/value deck... it's not.
With the way the blog post goes on to explain the quest with example cards they want you to use, I'm not expecting some cheap battlecry card that adds copies of itself to your hand and similar, if there was such a thing they would probably put it right here. If the combo takes more that 4-5 dedicated cards it's not worth it.
One idea is to play violet teacher, get tokens then vanish them and play them for the quest. I think this is the closest thing to being practical yet looks so far. In a deck like that you don't want to play the quest on turn 1 but if you mulligan it, you will want to draw that one card entire game.
If the reward for this was almost "win the game", I could see the incentive to try but it's just not very good. It's like the weakest reward/effort from the ones revealed so far.
One idea is to play violet teacher, get tokens then vanish them and play them for the quest. I think this is the closest thing to being practical yet looks so far. In a deck like that you don't want to play the quest on turn 1 but if you mulligan it, you will want to draw that one card entire game.
If the reward for this was almost "win the game", I could see the incentive to try but it's just not very good. It's like the weakest reward/effort from the ones revealed so far.
This deck is probably incomplete considering we haven't seen all the cards and in its current iteration probably isn't that great, but I think this is what a bounce rogue running the quest might look like.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...06:1;49708:2;49711:2;49713:2;55481:1;55483:2;
Maybe it'll bounce using something other than the jade package but that's what came to my mind immediately.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...06:1;49708:2;49711:2;49713:2;55481:1;55483:2;
Maybe it'll bounce using something other than the jade package but that's what came to my mind immediately.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think activating the quest is that difficult. But at that point you have limited your jades to 5/5s, so I don't think that is a very strong way to build it.
I am judging it based on the available cards. I have said that twice already. Maybe more cards are revealed that change my opinion on the archetype but right now this is not something I would consider even tier 3 caliber deck.
I listed deck archetypes that I think beat this kind of deck. I think this deck (like most Rogue decks) struggles against all sorts of aggro. Are you going to say that we will not have aggro decks in Ungoro or that this deck magically is going to flip the match up charts of Rogue? I also think any deck with any sort of quick ramp up is going to beat it too. In terms of control decks I think Handlock can beat this even while being severely gimped because I can outlast a few 5/5s playing Handlock and then finish with Jaraxxus pumping out 6/6s. Other control decks less so but Rogue always did well against control decks anyway and Rogue has MULTIPLE archetypes to beat Control (Mill, Nzoth, Cthun, Burgle, Miracoli, Jade etc.).
So no... this is not an assumption based on 0 information but rather all the information we have been given thus far including past history of the game. These things rarely if ever work out.
That seems particularly bad because it has Jades in it and that's anti synergy with the bounce mechanic.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Okay you have some minor information, which happens to be vastly outweighed by the information you don't have. That wasn't the point at all. You're basically assuming every deck beats it. If you don't want to discuss the deck archetype, okay. No one is forcing you to.
This just seems like a worse jade rouge though. All this will do is cap their growth in a point of the game where it should overwhelm. The bits of synergy it has with shadow caster and buffing the first half of some bodies doesn't seem worth it. This also has no preps which means at some point you are planning to spend 5 mana doing nothing.
I'm not sure if it works like that, but if it does, maybe you can go into a Water Rogue direction.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...24:1;49632:1;49657:1;49677:2;55481:1;55483:2;
Buccaneer is TGT.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Frustrating. Was 2-0 in Arena with a fairly good deck with no duplicates and Reno, end up 2-3. Went second all 3 times and even drew Reno all 3 times but my opponents just had answers for everything.
And to top it off, my pack gave me STB, which doesn't grant full dust refunds anymore.
And to top it off, my pack gave me STB, which doesn't grant full dust refunds anymore.
You say that like going second is a good thing.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/rogue#103:2;247:1;286:2;364:2;378:2;382:2;471:2;523:2;525:1;550:2;658:1;33180:2;42046:2;49624:1;49657:1;55481:1;
My stab at 26 out of 30 cards.
Thalnos is definitely in this deck and I think violet teacher is too, it can do okay even without quest activation and it makes for a nice drop on 4 that you can build into something more.
I'm not sold on the 1 of Vanish but I'd like to test it.
I imagine a late turn where you r opponent has a reasonable board presence and you either push face damage or make value trades and then prep vanish into a board of cheap 5/5s
Browsing through Cards I forgot about Moroes, dude might work in this, he's too easy to clear before the quest but afterward he puts a lot on your board.
My stab at 26 out of 30 cards.
Thalnos is definitely in this deck and I think violet teacher is too, it can do okay even without quest activation and it makes for a nice drop on 4 that you can build into something more.
I'm not sold on the 1 of Vanish but I'd like to test it.
I imagine a late turn where you r opponent has a reasonable board presence and you either push face damage or make value trades and then prep vanish into a board of cheap 5/5s
Browsing through Cards I forgot about Moroes, dude might work in this, he's too easy to clear before the quest but afterward he puts a lot on your board.
Have you seen the guy's arena deck on reddit, it's more constructed than a constructed reno deck.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, this Quest definitely has poor synergy with Jade and underperforms it if you build around just making 5/5 bodies. If it's gonna work you're gonna have to maximize the specific benefit of this effect over other similar things, primarily by playing cheap minions with good battlecries. In a perfect world this deck would have a really low curve ensuring it can get decent starts in most cases, but then barrel into huge card advantage and walls of 5/5s once you complete the quest.
You're never going to want to just throw a Quest into whatever deck you've been using.
You're going to have to build your deck around all of these.
Yeah and to get enough of the copy/bounce effects you're going to need to run a bunch of draw. Which makes novice enginner the most likely copy/play target IMO. I can't think of other good & cheap battlecries you'd want to run and play a lot of times. Maybe abusive sergant or something? The 1/1 pirate or patches also might work, though neither have amazing effects they are pretty strong when you play a bunch of them.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I didn't think of moroes, but barnes could be good and perhaps less risk than moroes.
I'm not sold on shadowcaster being really good for the deck.
I think maybe sprint and the mini-thistle tea.
Shadowstepping 5/5 1 mana chargers will be a strong way to get that last bit of reach needed to close out a game. In theory you could play 6 chargers. Stonetusk boars, southsea deckhand, bluegill warrior. Technically you could hit for 30 damage in one turn. I don't think that will be optimal of course. But having a few chargers and shadowsteps you can get a lot of reach.
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