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[old manatee]

I feel like TV shows have pulled waaaaay ahead of movies in terms of diversity. Films that actually get a wide theater release are embarrassing in terms of Asian representation.

 

[smileyforall220]

Even when it comes to height there are a ton of White actors who are, or were, considered sexy, and they're not even tall lol.

Tom Cruise - 5'7"

Tom Hardy - 5'9"

Jason Statham - 5'10"

RDJ - 5'8"

Johnny Depp - 5'10"

Zac Efron - 5'8"

Mark Wahlberg - 5'8"

Matt Damon - 5'10"

etc, etc....

Plus those are just listed heights, which means a lot of them are probably shorter.

Also "asians" have really variable heights. Northern china and Korea have guys who are around 6' -6'2 as the norm. I'm not sure where this stereotype came from

 

[smileyforall220]

I feel like TV shows have pulled waaaaay ahead of movies in terms of diversity. Films that actually get a wide theater release are embarrassing in terms of Asian representation.

I wonder if that's because of less risk involved in television, you can pitch an idea, get it greenlit, shoot it with your production staff and you're good. In film there is so much Hollywood producer bureaucracy mucking things up with way more money involved that must somehow hamper the process.

 

[lightskintwin]

I remember posting in one of the GITS threads Harold is literally the last Asian lead I can think of who didn't know martial arts and had a non-Asian love interest

John Cho has been going the indie route and has two upcoming films that have been critically acclaimed. I believe in Columbus he's the love interest for fine ass Haley Lu Richardson.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/columbus_2017/

And surprise surprise, Columbus is written and directed by Kogonada who was born in Seoul, South Korea, raised in the Midwest, and now resides in Nashville.

Weirdly enough that film premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and despite unanimous praise, has yet to get any interest from North American distributors, while Chinese and Middle Eastern distributors have already bought their regions rights.

He's also the detective in the indie mystery film Gemini that stars Lola Kirke and Zoe Kravitz.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gemini_2017

Neon bought domestic distribution rights, while Sony International obviously grabbed the international distribution rights.

I wonder if that's because of less risk involved in television, you can pitch an idea, get it greenlit, shoot it with your production staff and you're good. In film there is so much Hollywood producer bureaucracy mucking things up with way more money involved that must somehow hamper the process.

I think it's simply due to hundreds of more channels, therefore out of sheer volume you're going to have better diversity. Unlike the number of films that come out of Hollywood each year.

 

[nitewulf]

i wasn't payin attention to your convo but i'm glad you two were able to resolve this like men.

why like men? are women not able to resolve situations in a similar manner?

 

[Skux]

There are no roles because there are no scripts. Nothing will change until there are more Asian writing scripts with quality Asian characters and Asian producers willing to put the money down to create them. You can't change this from the bottom up. It has to start from the top.

 

[Zoe]

Also "asians" have really variable heights. Northern china and Korea have guys who are around 6' -6'2 as the norm. I'm not sure where this stereotype came from

To be fair, the major countries do fall below the US average, but since when was Hollywood a representation of average?

 

[SixMachine]

Even when it comes to height there are a ton of White actors who are, or were, considered sexy, and they're not even tall lol.

Tom Cruise - 5'7"

Tom Hardy - 5'9"

Jason Statham - 5'10"

RDJ - 5'8"

Johnny Depp - 5'10"

Zac Efron - 5'8"

Mark Wahlberg - 5'8"

Matt Damon - 5'10"

etc, etc....

Plus those are just listed heights, which means a lot of them are probably shorter.

What's weird is that they actually film these actors in a way that they don't look short. Sylvester Stallone did this and he is 5' 10". Hilariously enough, they also do this so Vin Diesel doesn't look completely tiny compared to the Rock in the Fast and Furious movies, even though he isn't a small guy himself. But when it comes to asian male actors they don't take the effort to hide height, you can see Aaliyah standing taller than Jet Li in many shots of Romeo Must Die.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There are no roles because there are no scripts. Nothing will change until there are more Asian writing scripts with quality Asian characters and Asian producers willing to put the money down to create them. You can't change this from the bottom up. It has to start from the top.

There are plenty of scripts, they just a aren't casting Asians. I don't think Asians want to play Asians. That's problem and the biggest misconception. They want to play NORMAL PEOPLE. Sometimes those people have leading roles, have non-geeky personalities, love interests, muscles, are dumb, are jocks, don't know martial arts, etc

 

[Megawarrior]

That "box office draw" aspect is unfortunately true, and is a direct consaquence of these casting practices. Who would you say is the most famous Asian actress in Hollywood right now? Hannah Simone? Lucy liu? Maggie Q? Chloe Bennet?

According to google it is Zhang Ziyi Fan Bingbing Gong li Michelle Yeoh and Arden Cho

Insert Guardians of the Galaxy Who.Gif

4/5 of those actresses are over 35 and i had only previously heard of one. Michelle Yeoh.

Lucy liu deserved and still deserves better.

 

[Setsuna]

Lucy liu deserved and still deserves better.

I like lucy and all, but lets not get ahead of ourselves now

 

[Sunster]

There are no roles because there are no scripts. Nothing will change until there are more Asian writing scripts with quality Asian characters and Asian producers willing to put the money down to create them. You can't change this from the bottom up. It has to start from the top.

Basically we need shows we already have/had to cast Asians. Example: The Office. Jim is Thai and probably not named Jim.

 

[erragal]

Crazy Ex-girlfriend surely deserves a mention for the principal male love interest being a Filipino chill dude (though he is a martial artist, the character archetype is more jock than kung fu master)

 

[Fuchsdh]

The weird thing about casting I didn't know about until the kerfuffle over the Avatar movie is that it's tacitly assumed unless they specifically mention all ethnicities or list them like in the example in OP, it's presumed that they're looking for a white person. Which is pretty messed up.

As to the broader issues, I dunno what the path forward for Asians are. Perhaps the push for global cinema gives them more of a shot, but being less than 5% of the roles in TV isn't all that surprising given they are less than 5% of the US population. Doesn't really address the discrepancy in types of roles, however.

 

[lightskintwin]

The weird thing about casting I didn't know about until the kerfuffle over the Avatar movie is that it's tacitly assumed unless they specifically mention all ethnicities or list them like in the example in OP, it's presumed that they're looking for a white person. Which is pretty messed up.

As to the broader issues, I dunno what the path forward for Asians are. Perhaps the push for global cinema gives them more of a shot, but being less than 5% of the roles in TV isn't all that surprising given they are less than 5% of the US population. Doesn't really address the discrepancy in types of roles, however.

White is the default in Hollywood and western storytelling. Hence why even from posters on this board who think unless there's a reason for a person of color to be included, it's forced diversity.

 

[Seasoned Badger]

Even when it comes to height there are a ton of White actors who are, or were, considered sexy, and they're not even tall lol.

Tom Cruise - 5'7"

Tom Hardy - 5'9"

Jason Statham - 5'10"

RDJ - 5'8"

Johnny Depp - 5'10"

Zac Efron - 5'8"

Mark Wahlberg - 5'8"

Matt Damon - 5'10"

etc, etc....

Plus those are just listed heights, which means a lot of them are probably shorter.

damn 5'10" is short......what a tragedy.

 

[antibolo]

It'll be interesting to see China''s influence to this problem. While it'll most likely be non-Asian Americans benefiting in the short term, it should at least increase the variety of roles Asians get in the future.

China don't care. If they watch an American movie they want to see an American star in it.

See: Matt Damon in The Great Wall.

See also Ghost in the Shell's reception in Japan

International appeal is not going to be the thing that brings a more balanced racial representation to Hollywood. It may even be causing the opposite effect, actually.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

damn 5'10" is short......what a tragedy.

I'm not saying it's short, I'm saying it's not tall.

 

[Tom Nook]

Bobby Lee had really sad story about his type of stuff on fighter and the kid podcast.

https://youtu.be/Vn-vyWkc6w4

The whole podcast is worth watching some real shit goes down some funny shit goes down. But, Bobby Lee really did go through a ton of shit in Hollywood. His Steven Yeun story was sad.

starts talking about it 56 mins in.

Very good listen.

His audition story for King Kong was fucked up.

I'm curious, did Bobby made any comments on the ending of GitS?

 

[MHWilliams]

It has and continues to be a long-standing issue.

For too long, Asian characters have been relegated to the other in casting calls and general movie storytelling. It's a goddamn shame. And that's before you get to the fact that "Asian" is a really broad signifier.

 

[Nanashrew]

Also "asians" have really variable heights. Northern china and Korea have guys who are around 6' -6'2 as the norm. I'm not sure where this stereotype came from

It's a long history of racism from war and immigration, from US military fighting in vietnam, and later japanese people in WWII. The term gook, even came from military officers in the Vietnam war. You had fist generation immigration to the US and people stereotyping them as short, angry and filthy. California had a real problem with asians in the 1870's demanding that the US government cease the immigration of the "yellow hordes." Yellow peril racism reached an all time high in Los Angeles of 1871 with the Chinese massacre.

All through this time asians were considered short, filthy, angry as if they were little goblins. Asian women where considered deviant or cunning dragon ladies, other times the servile lotus blossom, china doll or geisha girl. From the 1950's and onward, asians became the face of the model minority and a representation of a successful assimilation into US society and contrast them with the less successful hispanic and black populations.

TLDR: Racism.

 

[lightskintwin]

This pic is hilarious.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

This pic is hilarious.

Speed Racer looks incredibly annoyed he's not allowed near the bar.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Speed Racer looks incredibly annoyed he's not allowed near the bar.

C'mon, obviously he needs to be kept away from the booze if he's racing

 

[Nanashrew]

How much alcohol is in Jesus's wine though?

 

[milkham]

Speed Racer looks incredibly annoyed he's not allowed near the bar.

he's gotta be the designated driver

 

[O_Atoll]

Why don't Asian directors or film companies create their own films for Hollywood anymore? Why wait and hope one day some director is going to cast and Asian actor or actress in a role beside geeks, or prostitute?

 

[The Artisan]

why like men? are women not able to resolve situations in a similar manner?

my badd...what i meant was like, adults. two mature adults and shit.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I mean, she's not ugly, but Krysten Ritter isn't exactly a babe, either.

Sharp knees and all that.

 

[darkhunger]

Why don't Asian directors or film companies create their own films for Hollywood anymore? Why wait and hope one day some director is going to cast and Asian actor or actress in a role beside geeks, or prostitute?

Because that's not how it works. If you're an indie film producer hoping for a mass release (aka Hollywood) you still need to go through the Hollywood studios for distribution.

(Unless you're talking about Producers/companies from Asia, not Asian Americans, in which case that's not what this thread's about)

 

[Ratrat]

Because that's not how it works. If you're an indie film producer hoping for a mass release (aka Hollywood) you still need to go through the Hollywood studios for distribution.

(Unless you're talking about Producers/companies from Asia, not Asian Americans, in which case that's not what this thread's about)

Maybe he means something like The Last Airbender where they cast a bunch of unknowns that were also horrible actors. Shyamalan has to have some influence with casting right?

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

And then you have the likes of Ken Jeong embarassing himself and Asian Americans for a laugh. They just can't get a win.

I mean, if it works for Ken Jeong and allows him to get roles, I say he should do it. I hope that one day soon we reach the point where Asian Americans can move beyond those rules, but right now I'd say let's not shrink the market any further by removing those roles.

 

[chromatic9]

Because the entire point of the thread is the difficulties that Asian Americans face in getting roles.

There's also a difference in audience perception between a foreign actor playing their original nationality and playing an American.

I think the history of American culture has a lot to do with it. When you look back at all the walls that have been broken by the likes of Chuck Berry, James Brown, black athletes like Jesse Owens to Michael Johnson and sports stars like Ali, back to Joe Lewis to Michael Jordan, Motown Diana Ross to entertainment like Oprah Winfrey and Cosby to political leaders. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Seeing a black or white US person as the lead is normal to an extent.

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

Maybe he means something like The Last Airbender where they cast a bunch of unknowns that were also horrible actors. Shyamalan has to have some influence with casting right?

Interesting thing about The Last Airbender, the actors weren't all entirely unknown

Katara was played by Nicola Peltz. She's not exactly an unknown, she comes from a billionare family and was rumored to have been casted as a favor. She was also in Transformers Age of Extinction as Mark Wahlberg's daughter, similarly wooden and uncompelling in that role too. Both movies are Paramount Pictures productions

Apparently Bella Thorne considers her to be rather cold and calculating. She compares her to Regina George at one point, says she's a Hollywood mean girl.

I find it all so fascinating, how some stars come from humble beginnings, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, and others are entirely manufactured. Then you have odd mixes, like Taylor Swift. She has legitimate talent but her father bought a large stake in a record company to get her first deal

 

[Bleepey]

Would you say the same thing to women? "Do it yourselves" isn't always a practical solution.

The short answer is population size. African Americans have virtually never been less than 10% of the population with the low point being 9.7% in 1930. Asians only made up 5.6% of the population in the last census but even that is incredibly misleading. "Asian" is a broad umbrella term that encompasses multiple ethnicities. We're using the term Asian because it's easier, but it ignores how the community is fractured in ways African Americans are not.

That also leads into the fact that racial issues are not interchangeable between races, and I'm pretty tired of people either downplaying problems Asian communities face or suggesting they just do what black people have done in the past. Even if we ignore the fact that African Americans still have a representation issue in pop culture, African Americans face a slew of inequality problems unique to that demographic, as do Asians. You're also ignoring the world we live in and modern distribution models. Southern Californian Asians actually have made projects catering to Asian Americans, but the grassroots dissemination of cultural products in the 1970s is not applicable today. There is a glut of entertainment options, and unlike in 1970, poverty is no longer a major barrier that separates entertainment options. Even if it were, Asians do not face the kinds of systemic poverty and oppression that blacks did in 1970 which blacksploitation films responded to. Stuff like Master of None is way more nuanced in its discussion of racial barriers than say Shaft, primarily because the issues of race and representation have become increasingly complicated with time. That's why no one worth listening to responded to the #oscarssowhite controversy with "black people should go make their own oscars" or "black people should go make more blacksploitation films." Such an answer would be inherently offensive to African Americans, just as it is when those "solutions" are lobbed at Asians. Even stuff like Fresh of the Boat or Master of None required corporate backing, usually by a board of directors that consists of a bunch of old white dudes. You might as well say Asians should combat their lack of representation with Asian American produced YoutTube films which, surprise, already exist.

I see what you're both saying and i agree with you both to some level. I think Asian Americans are in some ways making their own paths where the Hollywood establishment won't let them. Whether it's Jin saying fuck this shit I'll go to HK, or a lot of K pop stars being Korean American. I did find it funny that Al Leong you might know him as that Asian bad guy in every 80s action flick with the long beard said, Asian Americans don't support each other like black people do with black films. I found that a bit ironic since some would say that's the exact opposite with Black people and black businesses.
https://youtu.be/e99ieAJygho?t=220

4mins-5

 

[O_Atoll]

Because that's not how it works. If you're an indie film producer hoping for a mass release (aka Hollywood) you still need to go through the Hollywood studios for distribution.

(Unless you're talking about Producers/companies from Asia, not Asian Americans, in which case that's not what this thread's about)

I believe one of the CEO of a huge studio is Asian and a Chinese company own one of the biggest movie theater chain in America. I just don't understand why some strings can't be​ pulled to help change this. Why wait for Hollywood to do it when there is already influence in there.

 

[Darth Pinche]

I mean, if it works for Ken Jeong and allows him to get roles, I say he should do it. I hope that one day soon we reach the point where Asian Americans can move beyond those rules, but right now I'd say let's not shrink the market any further by removing those roles.

No, doing roles like the ones Jeong has done just keeps the stereotypes alive. Being is evil/crazy Spanish teacher in Community was great. Repeatedly being a Asian drug kingpin with a micro penis is not ok. Its bullshit.

 

[Zoe]

I believe one of the CEO of a huge studio is Asian and a Chinese company own one of the biggest movie theater chain in America. I just don't understand why some strings can't be​ pulled to help change this. Why wait for Hollywood to do it when there is already influence in there.

How many times does this have to be said. Why do you think Asians are going to help Asian Americans?

 

[lightskintwin]

Because that's not how it works. If you're an indie film producer hoping for a mass release (aka Hollywood) you still need to go through the Hollywood studios for distribution.

(Unless you're talking about Producers/companies from Asia, not Asian Americans, in which case that's not what this thread's about)

Indie films get made all the time, get shown at film festivals, and distributors buy them. Independent African American films get picked up all the time through this such as Netflix buying Burning Sands at the Sundance Film Festival. A indie biopic on the rapper Roxxane was bought for 3 million dollars after being shown at Sundance by a new distributor in the marketplace trying to make a splash named Neon. People forget The Birth of A Nation was a indie pic that Nate Parker convinced people to invest in and it sold for 17.5 million to Fox Searchlight, despite Netflix offering 20 million. Dee Rees's (African American woman) directed independent film Mudbound was shown at Sundance this year, and Netflix bought it for 12.5 million dollars.

With not only Hollywood studios but independent and streaming distributors like Neon, Amazon, and Netflix; there's no better time to be an independent filmmaker.

 

[99Luffy]

I think part of the problem is that asians can just watch asians outside hollywood. They regularly play bollywood, korean, and even filipino movies in Cineplex theaters here in Canada.
For more asian actors to be in Hollywood it has to be shown that the asian community can support an american made movie on their own. I doubt Tyler perry made the first Madea movies and thought 'I hope white people watch this movie.'

That said I think we're going at a decent pace. I see a couple filipino comedians with specials on Netflix, damn funny too, the first asian family sitcom, crazy rich asians might be a good show, and wow disney actually went through with a live action Mulan.

We're getting there.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I was sad they decided to follow the comics and kill him off, not just because I liked the actor and character, but because I knew the chances of seeing him in another good role afterwards were low. Also, there wouldn't be another Asian actor coming into the WD to fill that spot.

This is so sad, that guy is such a good person it seems. I'm getting sad just thinking about him being shunned after TWD. He seems to be doing voice work a bit. TV show stuff. Man Marvel, find something for this man!

 

[lightskintwin]

I think part of the problem is that asians can just watch asians outside hollywood. They regularly play bollywood, korean, and even filipino movies in Cineplex theaters here in Canada.
For more asian actors to be in Hollywood it has to be shown that the asian community can support a movie on their own. I doubt Tyler perry made the first Madea movies and thought 'I hope white people watch this movie.'

That said I think we're going at a decent pace. I see a couple filipino comedians on Netflix, damn funny too, the first asian family sitcom, crazy rich asians might be a good show, and wow disney actually went through with a live action Mulan.

We're getting there.

Yes that's definitely part of the problem that there may not be any sense of urgency due to plenty amount of media that comes from India, South Korea, China, Japan, etc...

I also agree with the bolded, because once it's proven they can it creates a market now that people can try to cater too and know there's a demand for. Not to mention, like what another poster suggesting perhaps including an African American star in these Asian American films to build an overlap in audiences at first because data has shown that African American and Asian American audiences attendance in movies have increased.

More African-Americans, Asians in U.S. Are Going to the Movies

The number of frequent Asian moviegoers also increased, from 3.2 million to 3.9 million. And in 2016, Asians made the strongest showing of any ethnicity group in terms of the share of tickets purchased (14 percent) relative to their share of the population (8 percent).

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I would love to see more Asians in movies and it's a shame they are still getting the same stereotypical roles. If Ghost in the Shell had an Asian actress at least it would've had that going for it and those motherfuckers who saying they had to go with the same choice are a part of the problem. Get your shit right.

Wait what? Every lead actress they have is attractive so far.

I have seen a single one yet.

 

[Llyranor]

What's weird is that they actually film these actors in a way that they don't look short. Sylvester Stallone did this and he is 5' 10". Hilariously enough, they also do this so Vin Diesel doesn't look completely tiny compared to the Rock in the Fast and Furious movies, even though he isn't a small guy himself. But when it comes to asian male actors they don't take the effort to hide height, you can see Aaliyah standing taller than Jet Li in many shots of Romeo Must Die.

I couldn't believe it when I read about some actresses having to stand in trenches so they wouldn't tower above their male counterpart.

 

[Zoe]

Not to mention, like what another poster suggesting perhaps including an African American star in these Asian American films to build an overlap in audiences at first because data has shown that African American and Asian American audiences attendance in movies have increased.

I'm not too optimistic that the audiences who rejected Jet Li/Aaliyah have come around on that.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not too optimistic that the audiences who rejected Jet Li/Aaliyah have come around on that.

Nobody rejected Jet Li/Aaliyah, that film did well and made almost $100 million dollars box office off a $25 million budget. You're actually proving my point.

 

[Zoe]

Nobody rejected Jet Li/Aaliyah, that film did well and made almost $100 million dollars box office off a $25 million budget. You're actually proving my point.

Test audiences rejected the romance.

 

[lightskintwin]

Test audiences rejected the romance.

No they didn't and that lie keeps being perpetuated. Test audiences rejected the kiss between them because it happens immediately after Jet Li witnesses his father commit suicide and it felt strange and awkward. A documentary about stereotypical portrayals of East Asian men in Hollywood twisted it and disingenuously portrayed the omitted kiss scene was due to Test audiences being racist.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

No they didn't and that lie keeps being perpetuated. Test audiences rejected the kiss between them because it happens immediately after Jet Li witnesses his father commit suicide and it felt strange and awkward. A documentary about stereotypical portrayals of East Asian men in Hollywood twisted it and disingenuously portrayed the omitted kiss scene was due to Test audiences being racist.

Classic Hollywood. They seem to learn the wrong lessons so often, it's almost as if they're intentionally fucking up

 

[Zoe]

No they didn't and that lie keeps being perpetuated. Test audiences rejected the kiss between them because it happens immediately after Jet Li witnesses his father commit suicide and it felt strange and awkward. A documentary about stereotypical portrayals of East Asian men in Hollywood twisted it and disingenuously portrayed the omitted kiss scene was due to Test audiences being racist.

And yet so many other works have no problem slipping that in. Not to mention they're somehow A-OK with both of them walking off screen all smiles instead?