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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Quite the conundrum now... I'm knee-deep in Persona 5, and I know I have a looooong way to go. I haven't finished SC. I'm just going to start that one over. And The 3rd is out on 5/3? There's just no way. Like, that's soon.

Guess I'll buy it and wait around a while to play it, like a wannabe :-/
 

Charamiwa

Banned
Hey guys, I just started the first game and all of a sudden the community thread is bumped (or maybe it was always here and it only now catches my eye). Had no idea there was one.

I went in completely blind, just knowing that the third game was about to release on Steam. Picked up the GoG version, and while I'm still in the prologue I think (I spent way too much time wandering around in the town), I have a good feeling about this. Loving the MC so far, the first town is cozy as hell, and the orbment system is... intriguing, if not a bit confusing. The idea of this big adventure sprawling three huge games is really exciting. I picked up Persona 5 thinking that would be my big game for a while,
but I couldn't get into it and too many things were rubbing me the wrong way
, but I think this one might do it.

So there you go, hopefully the start of something great. I still know virtually nothing about the game, it's all new to me. I was surprised and pleased to see that it played really well with a mouse, which is ideal for me. I thought it would be a shitty port, but apparently it was developed years ago for Windows?

Time to go back! I'll check back in after a while.
 

SephLuis

Member
Guys, I have been thinking about writing an article about the series to see if it can attract new players so does anyone have a image that shows the continent or at least Liberl, Crossbell and Erebonia ?

Does anyone have in hand the timeline picture too ? I thought I would find in the first post here, but no luck.
 

Psxphile

Member
Guys, I have been thinking about writing an article about the series to see if it can attract new players so does anyone have a image that shows the continent or at least Liberl, Crossbell and Erebonia ?

Does anyone have in hand the timeline picture too ? I thought I would find in the first post here, but no luck.

Someone spliced this image together from official maps:

QRZ3UBa.jpg

Not sure how accurate it is.
 
Hey guys, I just started the first game and all of a sudden the community thread is bumped (or maybe it was always here and it only now catches my eye). Had no idea there was one.

I went in completely blind, just knowing that the third game was about to release on Steam. Picked up the GoG version, and while I'm still in the prologue I think (I spent way too much time wandering around in the town), I have a good feeling about this. Loving the MC so far, the first town is cozy as hell, and the orbment system is... intriguing, if not a bit confusing. The idea of this big adventure sprawling three huge games is really exciting. I picked up Persona 5 thinking that would be my big game for a while,
but I couldn't get into it and too many things were rubbing me the wrong way
, but I think this one might do it.

There is never too much time in wandering the town in Trails games. If you're the type who cares about what NPCs have to say, check with them from time to time because many of them have their own character arcs that progress alongside the game.

Guys, I have been thinking about writing an article about the series to see if it can attract new players so does anyone have a image that shows the continent or at least Liberl, Crossbell and Erebonia ?

Does anyone have in hand the timeline picture too ? I thought I would find in the first post here, but no luck.
Everything you need is in here, though I think Gu4n has since updated that mock map.
 

Psxphile

Member
The scale seems weird, but I guess it could be right. Missing some things though. Leman?

And Calvard seems massive.

Leman State is apparently beyond Remiferia so you wouldn't see it much on that map. The Remiferia map from Akatsuki no Kiseki only details everything within and not what exists outside its borders.
 
Trails in the Sky 3rd |OT| Slick priest, hungry nun, phantasmal prison for friend & foe
Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| More Olivier? Oh Goddess, Have Mercy...
Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| And they're descending, the stairway, to Gehenna
FINALLY... someone else who agrees with me that FC's start isn't that slow at all!

Not that speed really matters, but rather than tell other people that FC is slow, I wish people said that reading dialogue is what makes the game amazingly fun but consequently it can feel like things are moving at a slower pace because lots of reading is going on.

So there you go, hopefully the start of something great. I still know virtually nothing about the game, it's all new to me. I was surprised and pleased to see that it played really well with a mouse, which is ideal for me. I thought it would be a shitty port, but apparently it was developed years ago for Windows?
I still haven't done a gamepad playthrough because mouse controls are so ideal, especially with extra mouse buttons mapped via Joy2Key or an equivalent. Hopefully these good feelings carry all the way to the end for you! Nice as the Prologue is, the game will ramp up in detail and eventually plot pace without sacrificing coziness and a sense of humor.

Meanwhile I need to figure out what I should do about Cold Steel. I finally got Cold Steel II on PSN a week ago during the flash sale, but then came the PC port announcement. Cold Steel II's port could release as far out as this time next year, for all we know, but I'm almost done with Cold Steel the original. I'll have to double-dip later anyway, but I'd rather finish Cold Steel II on PS3 if the first game's cliffhanger really is nuts.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| THIS IS THE DUNGEON CRAWLIN ONE.

Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| Like FES: The Answer but good.

Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| Lore no Kiseki

Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| You want more Oliver you got it

Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| 3rd times the (Oliver) Charm

Trails in the Sky the 3rd |OT| Cry for Steam
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Trails in the Sky 3rd |OT| Crossbow Wielding Killer Priests

Trails in the Sky 3rd |OT| See that character? They can join you
 

Gu4n

Member
I was waiting for you to answer since you're a walking bible about everything Trails.
My only question about your answers is that where do they reveal this in game ? The black records ?

Ao also does this of throwing a lot at you too, but I felt more overwhelmed in CS. This might be because my english is much better than my japanese so the amount of information could greatly differ.
Actually, no -- this was all in the main scenario. What the Black Records reveal is (CS NG+ spoilers)
the nature of Erebonia's two Sept-Terrion
.


Someone spliced this image together from official maps:

Not sure how accurate it is.
That someone was me. I also don't know how accurate it is. I also made another version where I assumed the southern Erebonian lake in the Liberl/Crossbell map is Lake Ebel, so when I aligned those and the Garrelia I had to slightly rotate each map.

The scale seems weird, but I guess it could be right. Missing some things though. Leman?

And Calvard seems massive.
Calvard is massive and Erebonia apparently became even larger with the annexation of North Ambria. Also, I've always put Leman near the border with East Zemuria. I have no idea about Ored; it might also be bordering East Zemuria (all we know is that it's landlocked).

 

zakujanai

Member
As if Kevin is 22. What is it with Japan and child protagonists. To give Trails it's due though it does at least have a good selection of secondary older characters.

My favourites include (but are not limited to):
Cassius
Sad Eyes Cid
Mueller
Olivier
Toval
Sara Valestein
Victor Arseid

Obviously I'm stretching the term older to mean anybody over 25 but I'll take what I can get. I'd prefer more older women too but that's just getting greedy.
 

omgfloofy

Banned
What is it with Japan and child protagonists.

This is, as far as I figure from it, based on Japan's very strong mentality that your life actually properly begins during your teenage years.

Like in the US, while in high school, you are still encouraged to figure out what you want to do, but in Japan, you are expected to know the direction you want to take your life in before you even start high school- because you pick your high school based on what you want to do beyond, and to even want to get into a good college, you have to pick a good high school, and study your ass off to even pass the entrance exam for it- on top of going through your other classes, too.

If you look at Nier, you can see this viewpoint of what's more acceptable there compared to western views: Nier had two releases in Japan. Nier Gestalt and Nier Replicant. Both games were nearly identical, save a few small changes here and there, outside of the protagonist. Nier Gestalt features him as the older character and as Yonah's father, while Replicant features him as a younger character, and as Yonah's brother. I feel that the reception between the two versions in both Japan and US/Europe shows a lot of differences with these viewpoints.

With the settings of the Kiseki games, though, it's really hard to do a game from the viewpoint of someone who is knowledgeable of the world around them and still be the main protagonist. As the player, you are expected to learn the world situation around the protagonist, and it's far easier for you to learn these things through their eyes as they learn them, too.

3rd is a very very different Kiseki game in its storytelling style. It's the anomaly from the other games in the series, and Kevin is definitely a part of that. He has a lot more knowledge of the world around him, and you can even see that he figures out what's happening way before the rest of the cast does in 3rd. The mystery behind it is that you still need to figure it out, and thus you learn it through the secondary protagonist: Ries. To make matters even crazier on this, though- there are things that come up in 3rd that you will want explained, but Kevin and Ries already know the answers. So what happens? They don't explain them, and the mystery persists, even after the game ends. (3rd absolutely opens the can of worms of Kiseki mysteries, too.)

So combine this general method of storytelling, with the world view that "life begins at your teenage years" and you will get what we see these days. And one more thing to add to the setting is that in Kiseki- general education only goes to early teenage years. At that point, it seems that the 'student' will go into a trade, become a Bracer (16 is when they're allowed to join), or go to a private school (ala Jenis or Thors)- because the Septian Church is in charge of general public education in Zemuria, from what we've seen.
 

zakujanai

Member
Isn't Sara like, 24? I remember her being absurdly young for a so-called veteran. Same for Schera.

24 sounds about right, mightve been 25

As I said, I was stretching it a bit, mainly because it's harder to find older women in these. Only other I can recall if the top of my head is Beatrix in Cold Steel but she doesn't really feature enough.


Having lived in Japan, I'm familiar with the expectations laid on teenagers there. Your point about the only characters knowing too much about the world is really the crux of it Is guess, it would affect the storytelling if you jumped straight in as Cassius knowing so much of the mysterious goings on. I still think this approach is feasible though and might prevent RPGs from being so samey.

Playing from the perspective of a slightly world-weary 30/40 year old would speak to me much much than as a wide-eyed youth. From what you've said it sounds a bit like 3rd could actually be something along this line, which reinforces my bewilderment at Kevin's young age. Not saying you can't be wise at 22, although I certainly wasn't, it just seems a wasted opportunity to bring an older character to the forefront.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Playing from the perspective of a slightly world-weary 30/40 year old would speak to me much much than as a wide-eyed youth. From what you've said it sounds a bit like 3rd could actually be something along this line, which reinforces my bewilderment at Kevin's young age. Not saying you can't be wise at 22, although I certainly wasn't, it just seems a wasted opportunity to bring an older character to the forefront.

In Japanese RPG years 22 might as well be 35. If he was actually 35 he'd be retired with one foot in the grave.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
Playing from the perspective of a slightly world-weary 30/40 year old would speak to me much much than as a wide-eyed youth. From what you've said it sounds a bit like 3rd could actually be something along this line, which reinforces my bewilderment at Kevin's young age. Not saying you can't be wise at 22, although I certainly wasn't, it just seems a wasted opportunity to bring an older character to the forefront.

SC end spoiler:
Eh in Kevins case tho he'd probably got the whole "grow up world-weary fast/quick" trope down
With basically being a hitman for the chruch and what not
 

omgfloofy

Banned
Having lived in Japan, I'm familiar with the expectations laid on teenagers there. Your point about the only characters knowing too much about the world is really the crux of it Is guess, it would affect the storytelling if you jumped straight in as Cassius knowing so much of the mysterious goings on. I still think this approach is feasible though and might prevent RPGs from being so samey.

This is also why I addressed that 3rd is a very different game in its nature, and there are other things I can say about it that I feel are too spoilery with it on the horizon. And it's also why I addressed the education system in Zemuria, as well.

Playing from the perspective of a slightly world-weary 30/40 year old would speak to me much much than as a wide-eyed youth. From what you've said it sounds a bit like 3rd could actually be something along this line, which reinforces my bewilderment at Kevin's young age. Not saying you can't be wise at 22, although I certainly wasn't, it just seems a wasted opportunity to bring an older character to the forefront.

Kevin's an extreme 'special case,' when you break things down with him. But again, I'll let you wait to play 3rd before continuing on this thought.

SC end spoiler:
Eh in Kevins case tho he'd probably got the whole "grow up world-weary fast/quick" trope down
With basically being a hitman for the chruch and what not

This is part of it, indeed. :D

In Japanese RPG years 22 might as well be 35. If he was actually 35 he'd be retired with one foot in the grave.

Or he could be Jade Curtiss, complaining about old age.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Anyone living in Japan know what the going rates are for any of the evolution games on vita either used or new? Are they really like 40 to 80 USD after conversion like on ebay?
 

Korigama

Member
After CS II already dabbled with it, I wouldn't mind if more of the Super Arrange Version music were to show up in CS III, particularly the arrange version of Belief. Could be fun for when finally getting to fight
Aurelia
after it never happened in CS II (seems inevitable, regardless of what track plays during it).
 

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
Anyone living in Japan know what the going rates are for any of the evolution games on vita either used or new? Are they really like 40 to 80 USD after conversion like on ebay?

New it was about ~40 USD(~4500 yen). I bought them from amazon.co.jp around November last year when they just randomly went back into their stock(had them on my wishlist for months).
 

godisntheradio

Neo Member
how do you feel about having a prequel set around the
great collapse (1200 years before i think)
? would it be cool or it's one of those things better left to imagination? is there any need for detailing this event?

they don't like setting things in stone when they don't need, but i still think it could be interesting.
 
Hmm, I can't help but wonder - Did the Joyoland Crossbell ports suddenly disappearing from Steam after being greenlit have anything to do with Tencent's new WeGame crap?
 

Nyoro SF

Member
how do you feel about having a prequel set around the
great collapse (1200 years before i think)
? would it be cool or it's one of those things better left to imagination? is there any need for detailing this event?

they don't like setting things in stone when they don't need, but i still think it could be interesting.

Depends. Did they have high schools and student councils prior to the Great Collapse?

(only joking)
 

Korigama

Member
how do you feel about having a prequel set around the
great collapse (1200 years before i think)
? would it be cool or it's one of those things better left to imagination? is there any need for detailing this event?

they don't like setting things in stone when they don't need, but i still think it could be interesting.
I don't care much for prequels, or for things being explained in detail well beyond what's actually necessary, both of these approaches tending to be pitfalls for long-running franchises (Metal Gear being one that had a habit of using them to its detriment). More often than not, I do believe that things like that are better left to the imagination.
 

Young Magus

Junior Member
Vash the Priest!!

But nah, I don't think so. Especially because there were a lot of variations for Kevin's hair before they finally settled with the design we know today. (In fact, his early designs didn't even have him using a bowgun.)

Kevin C is the best from the prototype models.

Nice designs all around tho. And lol at the cross sword, throwin knives would've been a nice weapon choice tho.
And laced ones would've been interesting to kill wessiman with
 

SephLuis

Member
how do you feel about having a prequel set around the
great collapse (1200 years before i think)
? would it be cool or it's one of those things better left to imagination? is there any need for detailing this event?

they don't like setting things in stone when they don't need, but i still think it could be interesting.

I will just say that you get some details of it in the Crossbell arc. So I don't think a game on that period would be necessary. Maybe of Erebonia's founding would be a better choice.
 

Gu4n

Member
how do you feel about having a prequel set around the
great collapse (1200 years before i think)
? would it be cool or it's one of those things better left to imagination? is there any need for detailing this event?

they don't like setting things in stone when they don't need, but i still think it could be interesting.
My fascination with the Pre-Collapse era is not exactly a well-kept secret -- though I don't think this series needs a whole game built around it, perhaps a playable segment within someone's memory (like Dark Souls II). Learning what Zemuria looked like even before Aidios handed down Her treasures is a total pipe dream.

Also, among The 3rd's unused lines I found a possible reason why (SC spoilers)
Kevin had to use a salt bolt
.
 

Erheller

Member
My fascination with the Pre-Collapse era is not exactly a well-kept secret -- though I don't think this series needs a whole game built around it, perhaps a playable segment within someone's memory (like Dark Souls II). Learning what Zemuria looked like even before Aidios handed down Her treasures is a total pipe dream.

Also, among The 3rd's unused lines I found a possible reason why (SC spoilers)
Kevin had to use a salt bolt
.

Looking at that tweet, is there a Kiseki or Falcom Discord?

ALSO WHAT
 

Shouta

Member
In Japanese RPG years 22 might as well be 35. If he was actually 35 he'd be retired with one foot in the grave.

To be slightly fair, fantasy worlds have different expectations of people in general like how it was fairly different for society in medieval/feudal times in the real world. It makes more sense for the fantasy ones to make when you're in your teens a little more important. It doesn't make a ton of sense in more modern games though. I wish more RPGs would get with the times on that front.
 

Azar

Member
After hearing so much positive talk about Trails in the Sky I decided I had to find out what the fuss was about. I'm about 10 hours into the first game, in chapter 2, and so far I don't get it. Am I just not to the good stuff yet? At this point in chapter 2 it seems very generic in story and characterization. Pretty much all the dialogue feels more or less like stuff I've seen in a dozen Japanese RPGs before.

I'm having an okay time with it, but nothing stands out.
 

jb1234

Member
After hearing so much positive talk about Trails in the Sky I decided I had to find out what the fuss was about. I'm about 10 hours into the first game, in chapter 2, and so far I don't get it. Am I just not to the good stuff yet? At this point in chapter 2 it seems very generic in story and characterization. Pretty much all the dialogue feels more or less like stuff I've seen in a dozen Japanese RPGs before.

I'm having an okay time with it, but nothing stands out.

It's a slow burn. I didn't think the story got particularly interesting until the last ten hours or so but its all the stronger for the time it takes before that to develop its cast and set up the world.
 

duckroll

Member
The appeal of Trails isn't that it is so good that it is like nothing you have seen before in a JRPG. The appeal of Trails is that it is the sort JRPG series everyone used to love in the "good old days" but they not only kept making them, but the world and character dynamics keep growing from game to game and the franchise continues to exist today.

It's like "what if Suikoden didn't go to shit and kept expanding?"
 
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