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[ArchedThunder]

A wild HeroR appeared!
It's been a minute.

Hope you enjoy. It's one of my favorite shows next to Dragon Ball. It has a lot of homages to it, specifically the original Dragon Ball. I should warn you, Skypei is kind of a drag.

So far so good, story and art are really nice, love the water color backgrounds. Animation is lacking, very stiff with lots of still frames and digital movement, but I know it picks up... in like 100 episodes from where I am. At least the art is good.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I am personally okay with Frieza's boost since he was born that strong without doing anything, unlike everyone else who trained, fused, or the androids who technically cheated. My only real problem with Frieza is the time and even then, it evens out since Frieza rushing his training bit him in the ass.

My only issue with Freiza is time too.

But I see 17 similar as Freiza, in the sense that his birth as an android was already much stronger the Frieza without training. Human rules don't apply at that point.

17 without training being stronger than Freiza's plus having 10 years makes 17's boost not a big deal to me in relation to other things.

 

[HeroR]

I like his boost too. Salvages his character a bit.

I think that is the core problem some people have with Frieza's power jump. He has been reduced as a joke for so long after his battle with Super Saiyan Goku that fans have a hard time taking him seriously. If this was Cell who only got jobbed two times (Pikkon and Kid Goku), I think more people would be accepting of it.

A wild HeroR appeared!
It's been a minute.


So far so good, story and art are really nice, love the water color backgrounds. Animation is lacking, very stiff with lots of still frames and digital movement, but I know it picks up... in like 100 episodes from where I am. At least the art is good.

Been avoiding the 17's power breakdown. Saw the writing on the wall and decided to skip until cooler heads prevail.

As for One Piece, I personally think the East Blue Saga is done much better in the anime. The pacing is better and stuff is more flushed out. The manga was kind of rough until Arlong. Also, you're the first I have seen in awhile to be critical of the animation of the early arc. Most think this was One Piece's high point in the anime. That and Water 7 and Enies Lobby.

My only issue with Freiza is time too.

But I see 17 similar as Freiza, in the sense that his birth as an android was already much stronger the Frieza without training. Human rules don't apply at that point.

17 without training being stronger than Freiza's plus having 10 years makes 17's boost not a big deal to me in relation to other things.

My biggest issue with 17 is me wondering how strong was he during Frieza's return. If he was that strong, he could have murdered Golden Frieza. Heck, he would have giving Beerus a better fight than Super Saiyan God Goku, which I find kinda jarring.

 

[Nightbird]

What we really need is Fusions Cellza fusion.

That shit is dope, one of the few Fusions OC's I wish we're real

 

[Icyflamez96]

What we really need is Fusions Cellza fusion.



That shit is dope, one of the few Fusions OC's I wish we're real

Fab

 

[L Thammy]

I just realized that Super's now half the length of the original Dragonball anime and Kai, almost third of the length of Z, and arguably has gone through as many story arcs as Z had.

I wonder if we'll reach a point where Super becomes the largest part of the franchise. Can they keep Toriyama's interest that long? It must be easier to convince him to work when he only has to write some notes and do a few character art pieces every saga.

 

[Zolo]

I wonder if we'll reach a point where Super becomes the largest part of the franchise. Can they keep Toriyama's interest that long? It must be easier to convince him to work when he only has to write some notes and do a few character art pieces every saga.

I imagine there'll be a point where Toei just continues without his involvement considering how well the franchise is doing.

 

[caliph95]

That is probably what Toyotaro is for

 

[L Thammy]

I imagine there'll be a point where Toei just continues without his involvement considering how well the franchise is doing.

That is probably what Toyotaro is for

Probably, but if we get Super AF I may not stick around.
(I am a whore for Dragonball, so I probably will.)

 

[HeroR]

I imagine there'll be a point where Toei just continues without his involvement considering how well the franchise is doing.

I actually think it depends. They weren't willing to do another Dragon Ball series without Toriyama. That is how we got Kai and Heroes. They also practically begged him to be part of Battle of Gods. So Toei is obviously hesitant about going forward with anything serious without Toiryama, most likely to avoid another GT.

If they do go forward without Toriyama, it will be after they asked Toriyama what story ideas he have a mind for the next decade, even if it's just a sentence.

Probably, but if we get Super AF I may not stick around.
(I am a whore for Dragonball, so I probably will.)

We already have a Super AF. It's the Super manga

 

[RocknRola]

So whatever happened to that spin-off manga about Yamcha?

 

[Slaythe]

My biggest issue with 17 is me wondering how strong was he during Frieza's return. If he was that strong, he could have murdered Golden Frieza. Heck, he would have giving Beerus a better fight than Super Saiyan God Goku, which I find kinda jarring.

Super Saiyan God was deemed extremely disappointing though. (in universe)

So we know why now : it was shit.

Like, Trunks could have also killed Golden Frieza .

 

[L Thammy]

So whatever happened to that spin-off manga about Yamcha?

Yamcha winning a fight probably caused the Dragonball universe to collapse. One of the natural laws had been violated. Or maybe he trained and died anyway.

We already have a Super AF. It's the Super manga

That's true. Super GT then.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I just realized that Super's now half the length of the original Dragonball anime and Kai, almost third of the length of Z, and arguably has gone through as many story arcs as Z had.

I wonder if we'll reach a point where Super becomes the largest part of the franchise. Can they keep Toriyama's interest that long? It must be easier to convince him to work when he only has to write some notes and do a few character art pieces every saga.

It's about to pass Kai 1.0, which was 98 episodes. It'll be interesting to see how things go, there's no reason for it to stop in the near future, though it could always be cut "short" by an immediate sequel series if they feel like it, though it's just as likely that they'll just keep the Super name going no matter what. I feel like it will at least pass DB and the international version of Kai, Z is certainly a possibility, but that's still so many years away that you never know.

As for Toriyama, I'm sure he'll stay on for quite a while, but I feel like they might be in a transition period where he's going to take more of an advisory role while The Dragon Ball Room, Toei and Toyotaro take over the main creative front.

 

[HeroR]

Super Saiyan God was deemed extremely disappointing though. (in universe)

So we know why now : it was shit.

Like, Trunks could have also killed Golden Frieza .

By Beerus who wanted a better challenged, but even he got to respect Goku's power in the end, especially after he took godhood into his own. And Goku only viewed Super Saiyan God as disappointing because he didn't earn it himself.

Trunks couldn't kill Golden Frieza until he got Super Saiyan Rage and that was after he got his shit kicked in emotionally and physically for over a year. As far as we know, 17 got as strong as he did by doing push ups for an hour a day.

As for Toriyama, I'm sure he'll stay on for quite a while, but I feel like they might be in a transition period where he's going to take more of an advisory role while the Dragon Ball Room, Toei and Toyotaro take over the main creative front.

God I hope Toyotaro doesn't take a more creative role. He's storytelling skills are subpar at best.

 

[Icyflamez96]

17 being stronger than Golden Frieza seems right to me considering he was always stronger than Freiza. The main question I had for a while was why Beerus didn't dream about 17 since he was likely way stronger than Goku at that point, but I answered it by the very high chance that Goku will probably end up reaching higher heights than 17 as the series goes on.

Also I still think it's possible 17 got power from Goku's Kamehameha.

 

[Slaythe]

By Beerus who wanted a better challenged, but even he got to respect Goku's power in the end, especially after he took godhood into his own. And Goku only viewed Super Saiyan God as disappointing because he didn't earn it himself.

Trunks couldn't kill Golden Frieza until he got Super Saiyan Rage and that was after he got his shit kicked in emotionally and physically for over a year. As far as we know, 17 got as strong as he did by doing push for an hour a day.

I mean, 17 could one shot Trunks that one shot Frieza. It is therefore perfectly normal that 17, after 13 years, could reach an insane level, when emo Trunks and Frieza did it in a very short amount of time. (meaning it wasn't exclusive to "just saiyans" or "just frieza")

Now we wait for Piccolo, the ultimate Namekian.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Super's rating for last week dropped to 5.0% (episode 86). Episode 85, for comparison was at 5.9. That said, One Piece saw a drop last week too so...

17 was a mistake.

 

[L Thammy]

I mean, 17 could one shot Trunks that one shot Frieza. It is therefore perfectly normal that 17, after 13 years, could reach an insane level, when emo Trunks and Frieza did it in a very short amount of time. (meaning it wasn't exclusive to "just saiyans" or "just frieza")

Now we wait for Piccolo, the ultimate Namekian.

I'm still holding Krillin as the ultimate example of this. He went from being knocked out by Raditz like it's nothing to blowing up multiple Saibaman with one shot, when each one is as powerful as Raditz. In one year.

 

[HeroR]

17 being stronger than Golden Frieza seems right to me considering he was always stronger than Freiza. The main question I had for a while was why Beerus didn't dream about 17 since he was likely way stronger than Goku at that point, but I answered it by the very high chance that Goku will probably end up reaching higher heights than 17 as the series goes on.

Also I still think it's possible 17 got power from Goku's Kamehameha.

How? He isn't an energy absorber.

I think Goku is stronger than 17 since he was suppressing and Goku likes sandbagging. How much of a different is another issue, but that is also not counting the Kaioken.

I mean, 17 could one shot Trunks that one shot Frieza. It is therefore perfectly normal that 17, after 13 years, could reach an insane level, when emo Trunks and Frieza did it in a very short amount of time. (meaning it wasn't exclusive to "just saiyans" or "just frieza")

Now we wait for Piccolo, the ultimate Namekian.

I wouldn't call Trunks emo by what he was put through in the Future Trunks Saga. Most people would be in a corner or a mental institution if they lived Trunks' life. Not saying it should or would be exclusive. It is more jarring simply because 17 seems that strong because. While Trunks was emotion, Frieza unlocked all of his latent power, 17 just seems to get stronger out of nowhere. But the androids kind of always been like that, so I am not too shock.

 

[RocknRola]

Yamcha winning a fight probably caused the Dragonball universe to collapse. One of the natural laws had been violated. Or maybe he trained and died anyway.

.

Thanks a lot Yamcha!

 

[Host Samurai]

I think that is the core problem some people have with Frieza's power jump. He has been reduced as a joke for so long after his battle with Super Saiyan Goku that fans have a hard time taking him seriously. If this was Cell who only got jobbed two times (Pikkon and Kid Goku), I think more people would be accepting of it.
.

I think its Toei that killed his character by using him as a benchmark just to show much much more powerful everyone has gotten since then.

Gohan & Pikkon 1 shotting, weak ass Kaioshin stating to kill him in 1 shot while shitting his pants at the sight of Pui Pui & base Kid Goku playing around with him in GT did no good for the most terrifying villain in the universe. The power up makes him even a threat 3 sagas later with his Golden form.

 

[Icyflamez96]

How? He isn't an energy absorber.

I think Goku is stronger than 17 since he was suppressing and Goku likes sandbagging. How much of a different is another issue, but that is also not counting the Kaioken.

How do we know? He wasn't a shield maker either but look at him now.

Oh I agree that Goku is probably stronger now, but I think 17 was stronger during the BoG arc before Goku got SSG.

 

[HeroR]

How do we know? He wasn't a shield maker either but look at him now.

Oh I agree that Goku is probably stronger now, but I think 17 was stronger during the BoG arc before Goku got SSG.

Trunks actually said that don't absorbed energy because they have an endless supple. Also, I don't recall him taking Piccolo's energy when he used his shield in their battle. Otherwise, Piccolo would have been killed since they were even.

He had to be stronger, otherwise the power jump is even more jarring.

I think its Toei that killed his character by using him as a benchmark just to show much much more powerful everyone has gotten since then.

Gohan & Pikkon 1 shotting, weak ass Kaioshin stating to kill him in 1 shot while shitting his pants at the sight of Pui Pui & base Kid Goku playing around with him in GT did no good for the most terrifying villain in the universe. The power up makes him even a threat 3 sagas later with his Golden form.

Toriyama started it when Super Saiyan Trunks sliced Frieza into cold cuts.

Also, the Supreme Kai wasn't shitting his pants at the sight of Pui Pui. He was worried that Vegeta couldn't handle him, not that he couldn't personally take him. You have to remember that he didn't think Goku or Vegeta were stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. And the Supreme Kai isn't that weak since his power surpassed Piccolo at the time. The only person he truly feared was Dabura, who was stated to be around Cell to Perfect Cell's level.

 

[L Thammy]

If you need to be strong, training will make you strong. This is the terrorist's Zen-o's law.

 

[ArchedThunder]

God I hope Toyotaro doesn't take a more creative role. He's storytelling skills are subpar at best.

He sure can do some nice character designs though.
As long as the manga doesn't go weekly I think it'd work like this;
The Dragon Ball Room, Toei and Toyotaro get together and come up with an idea and get the go ahead from Toriyama, then they come up with a basic outline similar to what Toriyama does and design the characters together with some oversight from Toriyama, then Toei and Toyotaro do their own versions of the story as they already do.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Trunks actually said that don't absorbed energy because they have an endless supple. Also, I don't recall him taking Piccolo's energy when he used his shield in their battle. Otherwise, Piccolo would have been killed since they were even.

He had to be stronger, otherwise the power jump is even more jarring.

I don't think he could do it back then, but he couldn't make shields back then either. Using others' energy to excite his power could be another technique he picked up along with the sheild. Or I guess you could say they'd be one in the same.

 

[Slaythe]

We have yet to ever see Toyotaro not abusing saiyan forms though.

I wonder how he's gonna make the other characters compelling when they can't shit out super saiyan 9.

 

[HeroR]

I don't think he could do it back then, but he couldn't make shields back then either. Using others' energy to excite his power could be another technique he picked up along with the sheild. Or I guess you could say they'd be one in the same.

17 used a shield during his fight with Piccolo, or are you referring to something else?

He sure can do some nice character designs though.
As long as the manga doesn't go weekly I think it'd work like this;
The Dragon Ball Room, Toei and Toyotaro get together and come up with an idea and get the go ahead from Toriyama, then they come up with a basic outline similar to what Toriyama does and design the characters together with some oversight from Toriyama, then Toei and Toyotaro do their own versions of the story as they already do.

That could end up very good or really terrible. I would want to see a test run of this in a OVA or a side-story before they implement it in Super. Toei only seems to do really good stories when they have a good general outline, ex History of Trunks. Toyotaro's designs, I don't hate them but I feel other artists do a better job, although I do like some of his Gods of Destruction designs. I really don't care for all the tracing he does and I really don't like how he draws Black, Zamasu, and Merged Zamasu. Zamasu seems off and Black is too much of Majin Vegeta.

 

[Icyflamez96]

17 used a shield during his fight with Piccolo, or are you referring to something else?

I have 0 recollection of him ever using the shield tbh. I thought that was new.

I still think he could have picked up an energy absorption technique such as that over the 10 years. Though considering the shield isn't new then it makes me think less of that. (Still possible tho)

 

[L Thammy]

We have yet to ever see Toyotaro not abusing saiyan forms though.

I wonder how he's gonna make the other characters compelling when they can't shit out super saiyan 9.

He could have the character flip between different forms every two seconds like manga Vegeta vs. Goku Black.

 

[Host Samurai]

I am totally ok with everyone getting power scaled to Super levels. They had to do something to make characters relevant again. Buu, 17, Gohan, Piccolo, 18 & Tein all can be bullshitted into getting stronger.

I also hope U6 gets a Namekian and their version of Buu. So far U6 looks like this

Frost (Possible Golden form)
Cabba
Magetta
Botamo
Hit
Female Saiyan

This leaves 4 more openings up. There should be a Namkeian and possibly a human which leaves us with 2 more openings. If there is a Namekian, than I hope U6 Namek has the ancient Namekians, who are massive like Guru & King Piccolo. Whats interesting is that in U7, Namek was an advanced civilization before a global warming destroyed the planet. I can see U6 Namek be very advanced and populated with the large ancient Namekians and offsprings like Drum.

 

[flintstryker]

Picolo should just go to new namek and fuse with all the nameks there to become namek god since, god power is going around

 

[Icyflamez96]

Aren't Goku and Vegeta the only non gods with God power right now anyway

 

[L Thammy]

I think Piccolo should have some god power lying around, considering that Kami was a god.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Picolo should just go to new namek and fuse with all the nameks there to become namek god since, god power is going around

Why do you think the entire Namekian race would be willing to end themselves just to make Piccolo stronger?

 

[Icyflamez96]

Could we technically call Picollo a god?

 

[caliph95]

Which Saiyan Level of Cabba are we going to see just normal or God

 

[flintstryker]

Why do you think the entire Namekian race would be willing to end themselves just to make Piccolo stronger?

they're gonna get ended anyway if u7 loses so why the fuck not?

 

[Zolo]

they're gonna get ended anyway if u7 loses so why the fuck not?

They have full confidence in the U7 team.

 

[Host Samurai]

There is no reason why Piccolo isn't or can't get stronger. He's always been training, has god powers and is a fighting Namakian.

 

[FreeMufasa]

I think that is the core problem some people have with Frieza's power jump. He has been reduced as a joke for so long after his battle with Super Saiyan Goku that fans have a hard time taking him seriously. If this was Cell who only got jobbed two times (Pikkon and Kid Goku), I think more people would be accepting of it.



Been avoiding the 17's power breakdown. Saw the writing on the wall and decided to skip until cooler heads prevail.

As for One Piece, I personally think the East Blue Saga is done much better in the anime. The pacing is better and stuff is more flushed out. The manga was kind of rough until Arlong. Also, you're the first I have seen in awhile to be critical of the animation of the early arc. Most think this was One Piece's high point in the anime. That and Water 7 and Enies Lobby.



My biggest issue with 17 is me wondering how strong was he during Frieza's return. If he was that strong, he could have murdered Golden Frieza. Heck, he would have giving Beerus a better fight than Super Saiyan God Goku, which I find kinda jarring.

I think as we can see from the last episode, 17 just doesn't care about shenanigans outside of his island.

Probably coulda rekt all the buus at during that arc too

 

[Undead Fantasy]

He sure can do some nice character designs though.
As long as the manga doesn't go weekly I think it'd work like this;
The Dragon Ball Room, Toei and Toyotaro get together and come up with an idea and get the go ahead from Toriyama, then they come up with a basic outline similar to what Toriyama does and design the characters together with some oversight from Toriyama, then Toei and Toyotaro do their own versions of the story as they already do.

This is the best case scenario since I also think Toyotaro just can't write well.

The anime version for the arc runs circles around the manga one.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Which Saiyan Level of Cabba are we going to see just normal or God

SSG(green)

 

[Undead Fantasy]

I am totally ok with everyone getting power scaled to Super levels. They had to do something to make characters relevant again. Buu, 17, Gohan, Piccolo, 18 & Tein all can be bullshitted into getting stronger.

I also hope U6 gets a Namekian and their version of Buu. So far U6 looks like this

Frost (Possible Golden form)
Cabba
Magetta
Botamo
Hit
Female Saiyan

This leaves 4 more openings up. There should be a Namkeian and possibly a human which leaves us with 2 more openings. If there is a Namekian, than I hope U6 Namek has the ancient Namekians, who are massive like Guru & King Piccolo. Whats interesting is that in U7, Namek was an advanced civilization before a global warming destroyed the planet. I can see U6 Namek be very advanced and populated with the large ancient Namekians and offsprings like Drum.

I have the feeling that they are just going to be Saiyans. Champa did tell Cabba to get more Saiyans.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Which Saiyan Level of Cabba are we going to see just normal or God

My guess is Super Saiyan 2 or 3, or maybe even something original.

 

[Host Samurai]

I have the feeling that they are just going to be Saiyans. Champa did tell Cabba to get more Saiyans.

I hope not. We already got Broletta. So far this arc has been delivering on variety and the last thing we need are more tailless Saiyans. We finally have a chance to get creative with more Namekians so I hope they don't blow it.

 

[Swarna]

It'll be interesting to see how Tien is portrayed in his upcoming episode. Toriyama keeps calling Krillin the strongest human but most people would think it's Tien from overall series portrayal.

 

[Skeeter49]

Why do you think the entire Namekian race would be willing to end themselves just to make Piccolo stronger?

Threaten to kill Dende if they don't.
Does if have to be willingly, or can Piccolo fuse by force?

 

[amoham10]

I been defending Super for months, even during the horrific end to the Future Trunks arc but this...this I can't defend. Literally screamed "this is stupid" when I saw 17 going toe to toe with SSB Goku. What kind of nonsense is this? Super Saiyan 2 Goku should have been more than enough to take out Android 17 considering the huge power difference between the two. "B-but he trained!" Right single training fighting against poachers and the occasional scuffle with an animal does not magnify your power by that level.