-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Ss3 is now a joke
Gotenks is now a joke
Cabba can somehow fight on par with base vegeta
Ss3 gotenks somehow can't put a scratch
It's stated that they were human, I'm asking for where it was specified they had the potential for growth in terms of power levels. How does it make sense for a human being to achieve SSG or SSB? Krillin, who Toriyama stated before is the STRONGEST HUMAN, even admitted he wouldn't stand a chance against SSB, but 17 is able to keep up?
Romars202129
Member
I think theres an arguement to be made that Vegeta was sandbagging cabba.
Cabba seemed to regard Frost as superior. I felt he was supposed to be weaker than him.
Is this a fucking joke or you're seriously telling us 17 was weaker than Krilin ?
17 is a super human.
It was stated specifically in a Q&A with Akira Toriyama that they can train and get stronger here :
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-06/
The androids also aren't really counted when talking about the strongest earthling since they're considered androids first.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It's hard to say for the base part of the fight, but for the SSJ part Vegeta was absolutely going easy on him.
Is this a fucking joke or you're seriously telling us 17 was weaker than Krilin ?
17 is a super human.
It was stated specifically in a Q&A with Akira Toriyama that they can train and get stronger here :
When did I say that 17 was weaker than Krillin? My comment is to show the inconsistency with the gap between the different races.
Also, I don't read Japanese. What does it say? When was it dated?
If it's the same as Zolo just posted, then it's from 2014, merely 3 years. Don't act so cocky because I didn't read an interview with a guy that seemingly comes up with crap when it fits whatever narrative he needs.
No, I understand they're androids. I'm just saying the fact that there is a gulf between Krillin and SSB Goku yet 17 can stand toe to toe with SSB Goku is absolutely ridiculous.
do you even know who 17 and 18 are? lol
theyre very well known to be androids
I'm so confused. If you know that krillin is much weaker than 17 how does it not make sense?
oh I interpreted that as base super saiyan. me dumb
mmm dunno
I think that he was prolly not taking the fight seriously because he wanted to really fight as a SSJ
after all if SSJ is a multiplier and we didn't see Vegeta go beyond SSJ1, it should imply that base Vegeta is still beyond base Cabbe
Why would he sandbag? He had no reason to lie to Cabba, especially since he thought he could transform and was shocked that he couldn't. And Cabba was weaker than Frost before he went Super Saiyan. Frost in his Assualt form was on par to superior to base form Goku.
That was after Vegeta kicked his shit in and Cabba nearly lost conscious. What makes you think Cabba was at full strength when he transformed.
If he was taking it easy, he wouldn't have said Cabba's base was equal to him. Vegeta had no reason to lie about that.
Character development isn't filler.
Suburban Thug
Member
Yeah the 17 power jump makes zero sense but hey, that's dragon ball for ya. Another poster in here said to ignore the power level BS and I agree; the writing seems lazy right now but maybe we will get a better explanation.
Romars202129
Member
I mean they acknowledge it in the episode again and again, 17 has gotten much stronger. Lets hope they say why this next one.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
17 is a genetically modified human with unlimited stamina. He could train all day for years without stopping. People are surprised he is strong as Goku when he started out stronger than Goku??? Come-on man.
I really wish I knew when filler meant everything but action set pieces
but it doesn't sound like he has been training for years without stopping
from what he said, guarding the island means randomly getting invaded by poachers, and even letting it a couple of hours unguarded is a risky proposition, so all he has been doing is stomping on weak guys with guns
well until next week. maybe random alien poachers on SSB level are common
Suburban Thug
Member
That's wild that people are wondering how this android who got stomped by base cell is now suddenly able to go toe to toe with someone who has surpassed super saiyan god form!
Im purposely being a smart ass here so don't take that comment the wrong way 😎
But seriously, it doesn't make sense to me and just feels like people are trying to rationalize questionable writing. I want to see more though before jumping to conclusions and calling this mini arc thing trash.
Romars202129
Member
Because he obviously had a soft spot for Cabba.
I wouldnt consider someone transforming as a sign of the enemies strength at all.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Power Levels
Someone doesn't know what filler is.
Undead Fantasy
Member
That interview LMAO.
They don't know what they are doing when it comes to power scaling.
They don't know what they are doing when it comes to power scaling.
Frost pushed Goku back and flew throw his Kamehameha. Frost's third form is easily on par with base form Goku.
And as a Saiyan, he wouldn't lie to his kinsmen about being evenly match if it wasn't the case. He would have just called Cabba his inferior and tell him to train harder before beating him up.
So Vegeta had no reason to sandbag before he learned Cabba couldn't transform.
The gap between Krillin and 17 now is way beyond the gap it was in the Android saga.
Yeah, probably. It was never consistent after a point in DBZ but DBS just doesn't seem to give a damn.
I understand that 17 has gotten stronger. What I questioned was when this was ever explicitly stated in the source material that the androids could get stronger, which it never was and had to be answered in a Toriyama interview in the year 2014. Past that, the gains seem ludicrous. 17 has no need to train the level he says he has been to be a forest ranger.
Host Samurai
Member
Ranfan
Diablohead
Member
Can't wait for Gohan and Piccolo to fuse.
Pican
Gocolo
Pican
Gocolo
Suburban Thug
Member
Goten +
Gohan, Goten, you're both failures. You just gave up on your training for school and girls. I'm disowning you both. Only Gogohanten is my true son.
Gohen.
A character with Vegetto's power and Gotenks' silliness would have to be at least on gag manga level.
Nappa
Of course you should ignore that (i was the Poster) because it's for Merchandise guys. Toei doesnt give a shit or the comitee
So is the gap between Goku and Krilin, what's your point ? People got stronger than Krilin, big whoop.
There is nothing that makes "no sense" when Trunks and Frieza also reached a blue tier level relatively quickly. 17 was off screen 13 years.
What difference does it make if it was explicitly stated in the original material exactly ?
It was stated their enhancements were entirely organic. Therefore since they're not robots but living beings, they had no reason not to get stronger if they trained.
It was never stated they couldn't get stronger.
As for a reason, 17 was proud to be the strongest fighter, yet got humiliated by Piccolo and got absorbed by Cell, then died in the process.
Given how cocky he was, and that he was resurrected, why wouldn't he seek to get stronger ?
If you mean SSB, sure, if you mean the current cast, then you're wrong.
Toriyama doesn't give a shit about merch and it was his idea to make the old characters relevant again.
Romars202129
Member
Oh yeah, its a retcon. But its approved by the creator, so what do you want? I mean, Beerus is a way bigger retcon, and you swallowed that.
I don't think any of those events are hard evidence. Goku and Vegeta have shown a tendency to hold back and play with there foes.
Unless they're actually being pressed, I wouldnt believe any of their transformations are out of necessity.
Absolutely nothing implied they couldn't get stronger, and it was stated they were fully organic, not machines. So that's not a retcon since the logical assumption was that they could get stronger if they had the time and will to do so. If people thought it was illogical because of the wrong name "android", that's not Toriyama's fault.
Romars202129
Member
Whatever the word was, it was the same word used to describe 19, 20, and 16 right? So it was natural to assume they were just like them. 17 had blue prints for crying out loud. You cant blame everything on the word android.
More than that... just being someone's creation suggests there power isnt natural, and therefore cannot be increased naturally.
Im all for it, for the record. Its a good fitting retcon that doesnt really contradict anything too bad.
Goku is a main character and wasn't missing for the entire last arc of DBZ nor almost all of DBS until recently?
Trunks and Frieza are major characters.
Because that is what I asked and what I ultimately care about? It's clear Toriyama stopped giving a fuck at some point.
So if they're entirely organic why are they considered androids at this point?
If he was that cocky and cared about getting stronger why does he give a damn about being a park ranger?
Sure, but Beerus is a major character for DBS so I can go along with it. This feels like a cheap nostalgia cash in.
"Oh, hey, you guys remember 17? He's back and he's on Goku's level now, who has been training with the God of Destruction. How does this make sense, you ask? ¯\_(ツ
_/¯"Again, if they're fully organic at this point, why are they considered androids?
- Status