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[Digital Foundry] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Switch vs. 3DS/Wii U Comparison

shiyrley

Banned
Then you don't actually understand what the problem was then.

It's not that it was running at 59fps, rather, that there was a constant, inherent stutter present during gameplay at all times. Once you see it, the problem is impossible to ignore. It was super annoying.
I noticed it as well. But don't worry, someone else will come to tell us that "it's impossible to notice it because it's just one frame"

It didn't bother me but I have this weird thing called eyes that allows me to see things, so I was able to see the stutter. And one of my eyes doesn't even work properly. But I still see the stutter lol
 
02-Mario%20Kart%207.jpg


04-Mario%20Kart%207.jpg

Broken links.
 

Plum

Member
I don't understand what makes it "neat" either.

It's like being told my PS4 is more powerful than my old PS2. Yes. Sure. So? Is this a revelation? Something is seriously seriously wrong if the Switch isn't "wow" when compared to the 3DS.

As has been asked before, why does something need to be a revelation for it to be neat? It's just a small comparison to show how far Nintendo's handhelds have come in just one generation.
 

Unai

Member
I don't understand what makes it "neat" either.

It's like being told my PS4 is more powerful than my old PS2. Yes. Sure. So? Is this a revelation? Something is seriously seriously wrong if the Switch isn't "wow" when compared to the 3DS.

I love comparisons between ps2 era remakes on the PS4, so... yes?
 
Hold up. It's using bilinear filtering? Not even trilinear... :-/

I thought even the Wii U version had trilinear filtering... I thought bilinear was dead. I need to lie down.
 

Neiteio

Member
Man, can you imagine being a handheld-only gamer who goes from MK7 on 3DS to MK8DX on Switch. Minds will be blown. Excited for them. :)
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Man, can you imagine being a handheld-only gamer who goes from MK7 on 3DS to MK8DX on Switch. Minds will be blown. Excited for them. :)

Well I mean that's more or less like being a console-only gamer that goes from Mario Kart Wii on Wii to Mario Kart 8 on Wii U.
 
Man, can you imagine being a handheld-only gamer who goes from MK7 on 3DS to MK8DX on Switch. Minds will be blown. Excited for them. :)

I can. Well, I'm not a handheld-only gamer. But I was very impressed by MK7, as it looked better than Wii but at a somewhat lower resolution. And now this? Holy shit.

I'm easily impressed by handhelds though, since I started with a black and white Gameboy Pocket, and didn't own another handheld till Vita. Playing Uncharted on that blew my mind.
 

TS-08

Member
I had no idea that direct, cross-gen comparisons in graphics to showcase generational leaps were such a foreign and confusing concept to people. Really one of the more bizarre responses I've seen to something on GAF in a while.
 
I don't understand what makes it "neat" either.

It's like being told my PS4 is more powerful than my old PS2. Yes. Sure. So? Is this a revelation? Something is seriously seriously wrong if the Switch isn't "wow" when compared to the 3DS.

I'm honestly scratching my head here trying to understand what people are objecting to. Why does there need to be a revelation to make a comparison worthwhile? I feel like some of you are being needlessly adversarial here.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Well I mean that's more or less like being a console-only gamer that goes from Mario Kart Wii on Wii to Mario Kart 8 on Wii U.

Which was an astronomical leap, too.

Do we really need a comparison to show us that new hardware is stronger than old hardware?

It's not showing that new hardware is stronger than old hardware. We already know that. They're showing how much farther this handheld generation is ahead of the last using a perfectly legitimate comparison (same levels in the same series). It's interesting to see how huge of a jump it is.
 
Wonder if they tested the power draw like they did for Zelda. Would be interesting to see if it's the same. I also wonder how long the battery will last in HH mode.
 
I watched the video, and my favorite part was the 3DS comparison. It was a great reminder of the last handheld MK game I played, and how far of a leap the switch is in that space.

I was then really baffled by the comments in this thread, haha.

Can't wait for next week! Game looks amazing.
 

TS-08

Member
I'm honestly scratching my head here trying to understand what people are objecting to. Why does there need to be a revelation to make a comparison worthwhile? I feel like some of you are being needlessly adversarial here.

There are only two things I can think of: people are hung up on the hybrid nature and feel as if a console is being compared to a handheld, and MK7 is technically a different game. If someone put out a video showing the difference between Last of Us on PS4 and PS3 (and I'm sure plenty have), I doubt anyone bats an eye. But the problem is the the Switch is a handheld as much as a console, and the tracks and characters compared were the same. So it's basically two distinctions without a difference that people are turning into differences.
 

Seik

Banned
I noticed it as well. But don't worry, someone else will come to tell us that "it's impossible to notice it because it's just one frame"

It didn't bother me but I have this weird thing called eyes that allows me to see things, so I was able to see the stutter. And one of my eyes doesn't even work properly. But I still see the stutter lol

Of course it's impossible, human eye cannot see more than 30 fps.

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Richie

Member
Chill, folks. Digital Foundry isn't attempting to be disingenuous or anything with the 3DS comparison. It's just the appreciative, casual perspective of "Damn, look at how far we've advanced in handheld graphics! Ain't technological progress nice to behold?". Which it's indeed awesome. Don't drown in a glass of water!
 

Jeffrey

Member
Y'all could just close the video if the ds comparison doesn't blow your mind lol.

BTW are there any good comparison videos of the various remaster stages and the og version on YouTube?

This df video made me appreciate how much effort was put into building these older tracks with new tech and details while still keeping the same feel.
 

Piggus

Member
Chill, folks. Digital Foundry isn't attempting to be disingenuous or anything with the 3DS comparison. It's just the appreciative, casual perspective of "Damn, look at how far we've advanced in handheld graphics! Ain't technological progress nice to behold?". Which it's indeed awesome. Don't drown in a glass of water!

But we have to find something to get angry about...
 

shiyrley

Banned
They spend very little time on the MK7 thing. Why do people care so much
Chill, folks. Digital Foundry isn't attempting to be disingenuous or anything with the 3DS comparison. It's just the appreciative, casual perspective of "Damn, look at how far we've advanced in handheld graphics! Ain't technological progress nice to behold?". Which it's indeed awesome. Don't drown in a glass of water!
I think some people get angry when the Switch is praised, even when that "praise" is just "look at the progress! this is cool!"
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
I swear this thread is breaking my brain.

Like. Why are we to avoid comparing the old and the new? Isn't that... a thing?

it is the typical "but why Nintendo?" sentiment you see so often.. You saw it frequently with BotW from the "Nintendo hopped on the open world band wagon and gets a pass", you see it with Splatoon 2 "Nintendo releases a port and everyone calls it a new game", and you see it now with MK8, on two fronts no less, the first "they aren't giving us anything over MK8" AND "Why are we comparing a handheld MK to MK8?"

tl;dr there is a large group of people out there who actually become vocal and a bit frustrated when Nintendo has success and will jump on any means of tearing it down.

It mostly started with the Gamecube.. not sure I remember why. Obviously there were strong complaints with N64 and cartridges but those mostly faded over time. But with Gamecube on, essentially any non-handheld success Nintendo had was met with a large number of critics jumping on reasons why the success was diminished or didn't matter.

In this case we have two complaints happening simultaneously. One that the difference isn't big enough (MK8->MK8DX) and the other that the difference is too ridiculously great (MK7->MK8DX)

It's basically Schrödinger's Nintendo.
 

spekkeh

Banned
The lack of AA in Nintendo games is such a ?????

I mean, they have graphics programmers - otherwise the games would not exist. Do these graphics programmers just actively ignore how important clean edges are to such simplistic non-realistic art styles with clashing primary colours and high specular values?
BotW seems to have anti aliasing when docked. There was no AA on Wii U, because the console was so underpowered. Now there probably isn't any on MK8 because locked 60fps is so important, but outside of that, those are the two big games released right now, so it seems a bit early to say that.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Then you don't actually understand what the problem was then.

It's not that it was running at 59fps, rather, that there was a constant, inherent stutter present during gameplay at all times. Once you see it, the problem is impossible to ignore. It was super annoying.

This is only in single player?
 
it is the typical "but why Nintendo?" sentiment you see so often.. You saw it frequently with BotW from the "Nintendo hopped on the open world band wagon and gets a pass", you see it with Splatoon 2 "Nintendo releases a port and everyone calls it a new game", and you see it now with MK8, on two fronts no less, the first "they aren't giving us anything over MK8" AND "Why are we comparing a handheld MK to MK8?"

tl;dr there is a large group of people out there who actually become vocal and a bit frustrated when Nintendo has success and will jump on any means of tearing it down.

It mostly started with the Gamecube.. not sure I remember why. Obviously there were strong complaints with N64 and cartridges but those mostly faded over time. But with Gamecube on, essentially any non-handheld success Nintendo had was met with a large number of critics jumping on reasons why the success was diminished or didn't matter.

In this case we have two complaints happening simultaneously. One that the difference isn't big enough (MK8->MK8DX) and the other that the difference is too ridiculously great (MK7->MK8DX)

It's basically Schrödinger's Nintendo.

I'm honestly not going to assign sinister motivations. I guess to some people it might just seem like a disingenuous comparison here from the real meat and potatoes which is the Mario Kart 8 Wii U vs Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Switch showdown. And since that doesn't paint the Switch in an exceedingly good light, maybe some people think a comparison to the 3DS comes across as damage control to distract from the fact that it's not all that great of a console upgrade?

But I feel like I'm meeting more than halfway there. I don't think viewers are stupid. It's not like they can only focus on one comparison at a time. I don't think the video really sugar coats how the TV showdown pans out. It seems very clear to me that while there are some visual improvements in the Switch version relative to the 3 year old Wii U version, it's far from a night and day difference.

But even if it was obvious to me that the Switch handheld version would fare much better than 2011's Mario Kart 7, I still think it's kind of interesting to see the side by side comparison of what I'm upgarding to here in terms of portable Mario Kart. Given the hybrid nature of the Switch, I actually do think that this information is useful. It can be easy to lose sight of the fact that the Switch isn't just a television or handheld console.

Obviously though if your Switch doesn't leave the dock and you already had a Wii U and Mario Kart 8, I get that the Mario Kart 7 3DS isn't that interesting to your intended consumption of the game. But I don't think it's a crime to waste ~3 minutes of your time detailing what an upgrade this is in terms of portable Mario Kart.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
God damn some of you are stubborn in the head. Its amazing to see the graphical leap between 2 portable consoles. I'm glad they put it in there.
 

tkscz

Member
I noticed it as well. But don't worry, someone else will come to tell us that "it's impossible to notice it because it's just one frame"

It didn't bother me but I have this weird thing called eyes that allows me to see things, so I was able to see the stutter. And one of my eyes doesn't even work properly. But I still see the stutter lol

And I never noticed it, and I tried to, but never saw it. There are people who see it but only very few see it. Majority of people don't see it. So it happens, but not a lot of people notice.
 
tl;dr there is a large group of people out there who actually become vocal and a bit frustrated when Nintendo has success and will jump on any means of tearing it down.

I'm sure this group exists, but the defenders are equally guilty of taking anything Nintendo puts out and raising it to a pedestal.

I'm just tired of seeing every decision Nintendo makes being half assed and lazy.

I don't care that this is a port of a Wii U game. I don't care that a battle mode was added and it's being sold for $60.

What I do care about is Nintendo putting in the absolute bare minimum effort to release this game on the switch.

You're telling me that Switch is supposed to be significantly more powerful than the Wii U and all they could be bothered to do was increase the resolution?

Give me a fucking break.

It gets rather frustrating seeing a company get this much love when just about everything they do is terrible for their fans and consumers in general.
 

shiyrley

Banned
I believe split screen undocked is 30fps.. someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong.
You are wrong

Docked: 1080p 60 FPS 2 players, 1080p 30 FPS 3p+
Undocked: 720p 60 FPS 2 players, 720p 30 FPS 3p+

Online and local communication don't affect framerate either.
 
You're telling me that Switch is supposed to be significantly more powerful than the Wii U and all they could be bothered to do was increase the resolution?

There's been different interpretations along the way, but even as someone who preordered immediately after the January reveal event and followed through with a purchase on Day One, I've never really been under the impression that Switch represented a significant upgrade over the Wii U.
 
There's been different interpretations along the way, but even as someone who preordered immediately after the January reveal event and followed through with a purchase on Day One, I've never really been under the impression that Switch represented a significant upgrade over the Wii U.

I don't even mind the cartoony graphics or relatively low polygon models.

I think most Nintendo games look great, but there is definitely a little room to do something, anything to make the visuals better.

Mario Kart 8 Switch doesn't need to be some graphical powerhouse, but sliding the resolution slider up a notch and calling it a day is shitty.
 

Neiteio

Member
I just finished watching the video. Very well-done, as always from Digital Foundry. Something I really admire about them is how they're enthusiastic not only about tech, but also the fun of gaming itself. You can hear it in the tone of their voice, and sometimes they'll even talk about why they like in the game.

This is refreshing since sometimes, tech types on the internet become so obsessed with the stats of a game that you wonder if they actually enjoy playing them. But with DF you can tell they genuinely love games, not only for their technical merits, but more importantly their fun.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
There's been different interpretations along the way, but even as someone who preordered immediately after the January reveal event and followed through with a purchase on Day One, I've never really been under the impression that Switch represented a significant upgrade over the Wii U.

It is. The post you quoted also doesn't do math apparently.

Switch is roughly 3x more powerful than Wii U. And with that being said, 720p to 1080p is a 2.25 times increase in pixels. "only" a resolution bump is in fact perfectly in line with the performance increase.

Math. It's not just a clever word.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
It gets rather frustrating seeing a company get this much love when just about everything they do is terrible for their fans and consumers in general.

... when about everything they do is terrible for their fans.


No hyperbole at all... lol.
 
I don't even mind the cartoony graphics or relatively low polygon models.

I think most Nintendo games look great, but there is definitely a little room to do something, anything to make the visuals better.

Mario Kart 8 Switch doesn't need to be some graphical powerhouse, but sliding the resolution slider up a notch and calling it a day is shitty.

I don't really follow this as a reply to what I wrote. Honestly, my read has always been that if you were thinking that Switch represented a notable uptick over Wii U then you have been misled. I get that at one time there were wild rumors of brand spankin' new cutting edge nVidia tech powering this thing, but all the info leading up to and post release has painted a significantly less rosy picture.

There's always room for some improvement if you're willing to spend the money on more development resources, but I honestly don't think the so-called "not lazy" port of Mario Kart 8 has the potential to do much better than this. You should really disavow yourself of the notion that Switch is a serious technological improvement over the Wii U.
 

Plum

Member
It gets rather frustrating seeing a company get this much love when just about everything they do is terrible for their fans and consumers in general.

If everything they did was terrible for both their fans and consumers in general you'd think we'd be seeing a lot more "Switch bombs in first month" headlines than "Switch exceeds sales expectations" headlines.

Look, I can see it being a tiny bit disappointing that the game is just a resolution bump, but this tirade against the game and Nintendo as a whole is pretty much entirely you. The game's getting rave reviews, it's selling well already and many people here, avid Nintendo fan and not, are excited for it. If it were as anti-consumer a move as you seem to imply it is then none of those three would be happening to the extent they are.
 
It is. The post you quoted also doesn't do math apparently.

Switch is roughly 3x more powerful than Wii U. And with that being said, 720p to 1080p is a 2.25 times increase in pixels. "only" a resolution bump is in fact perfectly in line with the performance increase.

Math. It's not just a clever word.

Yes, because resolution is the literal representation of power and it scales 1:1 while disregarding all other hardware components.

Sounds about right.
 
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