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[The Kree]

Good video and all too true but the point should have been made that the war on drugs is destructive to everyone's lives. Like I'm not sure if they are saying it's a bad policy because it's racist (when in actuality it's the implementation of it that's racist) or because it's too heavy handed for whoever is caught. There are about the same amount of white people in prison for drugs whose lives will also be destroyed as well as black people because of our stupid fucking policies.

Do you know how proportions and percentages work?

 

[capitalCORN]

okay i'm starting to get you. what i was asking is who is going to step up and pay for this because it should be paid for, by someone who does have the money to sacrifice for an organization with less posts than your own twitter. because i think that would be a very good thing. i think that could be more important than propagating it via social media, where everything gets buried quickly because the news cycle is 1/3 of a day. it also does very little to change anyone's mind because anyone sharing already agrees. you gotta blast it at people who aren't in their own bubble. but i'm less interested in arguing that last point.

I know it would be a great thing to send this message through as many channels as possible. But even if it did make it to air, it's going to create some toxicity. The bare acknowledgement of racism is enough to send swaths of America into indignation and repudiation. In the end, it become ammo to their own 'suffering'. I believe it's better to work within reach. Get the disenfranchised working with us first, then the cautious, then the conflicted. And maybe by then, we'll have enough people behind our back to provide proof to message.

 

[Madness]

Love this but all this racial awareness is decades late, after so many lives and families get broken.

Can minorities initiate a class action lawsuit against the government for the Government's drug war, redlining, housing discrimination etc ?

Look at how much they are pushing for higher taxes due to the opium and heroin addiction crippling northeast white communities. They want to tax higher in BC to counteract the Fentanyl and opiod abuse system here because it is finally little white timmy and kelsey overdosing and dying and committing suicide.

They turned a blind eye when entire black communities and cities were destroyed by Heroin and crack in the 70's and 80's, instead starting the war on drugs to give multiple year sentences to those caught with heroin etc. How many families broken, kids entering foster care, etc. Even to this day the effects are felt in cities like NY, Baltimore, Philadelphia, East LA etc.

 

[Snowybreak]

Good video and all too true but the point should have been made that the war on drugs is destructive to everyone's lives. Like I'm not sure if they are saying it's a bad policy because it's racist (when in actuality it's the implementation of it that's racist) or because it's too heavy handed for whoever is caught. There are about the same amount of white people in prison for drugs whose lives will also be destroyed as well as black people because of our stupid fucking policies.

The war on drugs exists because Harry Anslinger was a racist motherfucker. And so was Nixon. And so was Reagan.

 

[LizardKing]

Do you know how proportions and percentages work?

Uh yeah, I said it was racist. I realize how it's used in a racist way. Doesn't change the fact that it's destructive to more than just black people. The whole if you're white you will get away with it angle is not necessarily true and a bad message to send. Especially when just as many whites are affected as an overall number and whites should feel angered over drug policy as well. It's a bad message to send that this is just a "black issue."

 

[Snowybreak]

Uh yeah, I said it was racist. I realize how it's used in a racist way. Doesn't change the fact that it's destructive to more than just black people. The whole if you're white you will get away with it angle is not necessarily true. Especially when just as many whites are affected as an overall number. It's also a bad message to send that this is just a "black issue."

The war on drugs disproportionately affects people of color versus white people. This is a fact.

 

[nitewulf]

Whoa isn't she Tifa's voice actress???

I didn't know she was in that drug commercial!

really? you reduced one the 90's iconic teen hearth throbs into the voice of Tifa?

 

[The Kree]

Uh yeah, I said it was racist. I realize how it's used in a racist way. Doesn't change the fact that it's destructive to more than just black people. The whole if you're white you will get away with it angle is not necessarily true. Especially when just as many whites are affected as an overall number. It's also a bad message to send that this is just a "black issue."

So you feel white people aren't getting enough positive attention on this issue. You feel white people are being neglected. You think white people have it just as bad.

 

[LizardKing]

The war on drugs disproportionately affects people of color versus white people. This is a fact.

It's like you don't even read and just want to spout things because you think I'm being flippant to how this affects black people. But again it's because you don't really want to read.

So you feel white people aren't getting enough positive attention on this issue. You feel white people are being neglected. You think white people have it just as bad.

And here's another one. It's actually the opposite. I feel they got too much attention. Drug policy can and should be an issue that races can unite against together. But go ahead and make it divisive.

 

[nitewulf]

And here's another one. It's actually the opposite. I feel they got too much attention. Drug policy can and should be an issue that races can unite against together. But go ahead and make it divisive like everything else.

I read your post. The point being made is that more people of color get caught due to systemic racism in law enforcement. People of any color that get caught and serve time obviously their careers and future prospects are affected in similar ways, but even then you could say people of color probably have it far worse due to systemic racism.

 

[The Kree]

It's like you don't even read and just want to spout things because you think I'm being flippant to how this affects blacks. But again it's because you don't really want to read.



And here's another one. It's actually the opposite. I feel they got too much attention.

I'm wondering what your purpose is in pointing out that a similar number of white and black people are in jail for drug crimes while acknowledging that that black people are disproportionately affected.

 

[Snowybreak]

It's like you don't even read and just want to spout things because you think I'm being flippant to how this affects blacks. But again it's because you don't really want to read.



And here's another one. It's actually the opposite. I feel they got too much attention. Drug policy can and should be an issue that races can unite against together. But go ahead and make it divisive.

You literally just said:

"The whole if you're white you will get away with it angle is not necessarily true. Especially when just as many whites are affected as an overall number."

No, not as many whites are affected as a whole number. This is an issue that affects black people more than white people.

Pointing out the racial aspect of the war on drugs is a good way to go about it. Because you can plant the seed of doubt in someone's head if they have a neutral stance on the war on drugs.

 

[LizardKing]

I read your post. The point being made is that more people of color get caught due to systemic racism in law enforcement. People of any color that get caught and serve time obviously their careers and future prospects are affected in similar ways, but even then you could say people of color probably have it far worse due to systemic racism.

I understand that point. But, is this a video about systemic racism in law enforcement, or about heavy handed drug policy laws?

 

[Snowybreak]

I understand that point. But, is this a video about systemic racism in law enforcement, or about heavy handed drug policy laws?

It's about both. It's showing the absolute futility and human cost of the drug war. It's also showing the racial angle. It brings up the white guy at the end because it drives the point home that not only is this war brutal and useless, it's also extremely racist.

 

[LizardKing]

It's about both. It's showing the absolute futility and human cost of the drug war. It's also showing the racial angle. It brings up the white guy at the end because it drives the point home that not only is this war brutal and useless, it's also extremely racist.

I guess that's useful if you think that is more likely to unite people on the issue or make whites care about it more. Like I think the black community knows how shit drug policy is. We need to convince white people and unite races over the issue. Not quibble over who has it worse. Unfortunately I'm not sure I agree that the point that it is racist and disproportionately affects black people is the most effective way to make white people care and actually get some sort of political movement on the issue. Especially when you're saying oh btw if you're white you don't need to worry about this. If it's portrayed as only a black issue, most of the country unfortunately won't care much. See: History.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Still lovely, I see. Nice video.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

LizardKing, what books have you read about the war on drugs? Any recommendations?

While you're here:

People are expecting you to make a cogent argument about why acknowledging the skewed proportions isn't as relevant as ... ideological racial unity?

 

[Snowybreak]

I guess that's useful if you think that is more likely to unite people on the issue or make whites care about it more. Like I think the black community knows how shit drug policy is. We need to convince white people and unite races over the issue. Not quibble over who has it worse. Unfortunately I'm not sure I agree that the point that it is racist and disproportionately affects black people is the most effective way to make white people care and actually get some sort of political movement on the issue. Especially when you're saying oh btw if you're white you don't need to worry about this. If it's portrayed as only a black issue, most of the country unfortunately won't care much. See: History.

Political movement is happening right this fucking second. It has been happening ever since Colorado went for legalization. There are tons of anti-drug war ads that don't talk about the racism issue. So having a few ads discussing it is inherently good.

If someone takes this as "only a black issue" after seeing this video, I'd consider them a lost cause.

 

[The Kree]

I guess that's useful if you think that is more likely to unite people on the issue or make whites care about it more. Like I think the black community knows how shit drug policy is. We need to convince white people and unite races over the issue. Not quibble over who has it worse. Unfortunately I'm not sure I agree that the point that it is racist and disproportionately affects black people is the most effective way to make white people care and actually get some sort of political movement on the issue. Especially when you're saying oh btw if you're white you don't need to worry about this.

We already know that white people generally don't give a shit about what happens to black people no matter what is said on this issue. Uniting the races is not doable. We will all hate each other forever.

But I wanna know why you are making contradictory statements about white people being equally affected. You said: "just as many whites are affected as an overall number."

Just as many whites are not affected and the overall number of people is not relevant to the point being made. White Americans are about 60% of the population. Black Americans are about 15%. So if the total numbers of incarcerated people in both groups are equal, that means that more black people relative to white people are affected. If they were actually equally affected, the number of black people would be significantly lower.

So, why are you saying that white people are just as affected when they are not? Did you misspeak?

 

[LizardKing]

LizardKing, what books have you read about the war on drugs? Any recommendations?

While you're here:

People are expecting you to make a cogent argument about why acknowledging the skewed proportions isn't as relevant as ... ideological racial unity?

You are missing the point. and nobody is arguing that a much higher proportion of black people aren't locked up for crimes. Btw everyone should watch 13th on Netflix to be truly depressed. It's also not about ideological racial Unity. It's about not making a whole society issue into just a black issue which the rest of society can feel free to push into a corner and ignore. Like when it was about crack it was lock them up and now that it's about opioid pills it's about Rehabilitation. It's bullshit I know but I'm just trying to reflect how society works.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Also, if you think the war on drugs isn't racist but the way it's implemented is, you should read this free book, which will give you all the bite-size facts on the history of marijuana prohibition. Most anything to do with drugs now has a major race element in its history.

http://jackherer.com.s216995.gridserver.com/emperor-3/

The Emperor Wears No Clothes

by Jack Herer

This is the book that started the cannabis hemp revolution. More than 600,000 copies have been sold to date. Jack wanted this information to be available to everyone, so he published the text of the book here on the internet for free.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It's also not about ideological racial Unity. It's about not making a whole society issue into just a black issue which the rest of society can feel free to push into a corner and ignore.

Do you understand why people aren't going to hide, distract from, or ignore their own oppression for the sake of their oppressors? I don't know how you got to this point after watching The 13th, you took some wrong lessons.

Your best bet here would be to become an activist for mainstreaming black issues so they can't be ignored, if you actually care about this. "Be so good they can't ignore you." -Steve Martin (a quote about entertaining, but it's relevant to any venture, and he's not talking about respectability)

 

[LizardKing]

Do you understand why people aren't going to hide, distract from, or ignore their own oppression for the sake of their oppressors? I don't know how you got to this point after watching The 13th, you took some wrong lessons.

Your best bet here would be to become an activist for mainstreaming black issues so they can't be ignored, if you actually care about this. "Be so good they can't ignore you." -Steve Martin (and he's not talking about respectability)

Nobody is saying to avoid the issue of systemic racism in the judicial system. That is a huge battle that needs to be fought. And extremely worthy. But the usefulness of eliminating tools that allow that oppression cannot be overstated. And if these tools are viewed by the majority of society as harmful to society as a whole you are much likely to get action. You are not going to get as strong as a response if you only portray that tool as a black issue.

You are going to get much more support by uniting people behind an issue then dividing them about it.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Activism is effecting change, dude. See something you don't like? Work to change it.

I understand what you're getting at, but you're not presenting any solutions. Why is that? What have you learned about racial issues getting mainstream attention, and what do you intend to do about it past essentially saying "it is how it is"?

 

[ccbfan]

War on drugs is racist as hell but I also agree making it a race thing is a terrible idea.

People in general don't give a shit about an issue unless its their issue or their groups issue. They might give some weak ass moral support but at the end of the day they don't really give a shit.

Its the same reason people here care more about the terrorist attacks in Western Nations and doesn't give a shit about the much more brutal and frequent ones going on in Africa. Western Nations are closer to "us".

The commercial makes the War on Drugs a "their" issue vs an "our" issue. If you want pity from white people then go ahead and complain about how racist it is. Woe is us. If you want action from white people then you need to show its our problem.

At the end of the day, they are still the majority and have majority of the power and wealth. Without their support you're not going to get shit done. I rather get shit done.

 

[The Kree]

Nobody is saying to avoid the issue of systemic racism in the judicial system. That is a huge battle that needs to be fought. And extremely worthy. But the usefulness of eliminating tools that allow that oppression cannot be overstated. And if these tools are viewed by the majority of society as harmful to society as a whole you are much likely to get action. You are not going to get as strong as a response if you only portray that tool as a black issue.

You are going to get much more support by uniting people behind an issue then dividing them about it.

Your premise is false. Acknowledging it as a racial issue doesn't create division. The division is what created the racial issue and allows it to persist. That white America doesn't want to confront itself on it is their failing. You cannot blame or discourage anyone who chooses to acknowledge and use it as a motivating factor. What you can do is blame the ones who don't want to acknowledge it or do anything about it. But I know that confronting white America is harder than asking black people to shut up - and trust me, that's ultimately what you're doing when you make your argument, and you can't be surprised when they find it insulting that you insist that nothing can be done about it on their terms.

 

[NullPointer]

Nobody is saying to avoid the issue of systemic racism in the judicial system. That is a huge battle that needs to be fought. And extremely worthy. But the usefulness of eliminating tools that allow that oppression cannot be overstated. And if these tools are viewed by the majority of society as harmful to society as a whole you are much likely to get action. You are not going to get as strong as a response if you only portray that tool as a black issue.

You are going to get much more support by uniting people behind an issue then dividing them about it.

This is true, and I agree with your ultimate point here.

When it got to the point in the video showing the happy well-off white family that got away scott free with their drug use I had to wince, because I know how my family members would react to that part of the message. They're all vehemently against the War on Drugs as is, but they get defensive as hell when they think they're being presented as the problem, or as living the high life or getting away with things when they've absolutely not gotten away with a damn thing.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Your premise is false. Acknowledging it as a racial issue doesn't create division. The division is what created the racial issue and allows it to persist. That white America doesn't want to confront itself on it is their failing. You cannot blame or discourage anyone who chooses to acknowledge and use it as a motivating factor. What you can do is blame the ones who don't want to acknowledge it or do anything about it. But I know that confronting white America is harder than asking black people to shut up - and trust me, that's ultimately what you're doing when you make your argument, and you can't be surprised when they find it insulting that you insist that nothing can be done about it on their terms.

❤️

LizardKing's argument, while I understand it on the surface level, is along the lines of our modern political and social history, where clumsy activism that attempts to bring knowledge to an issue is blamed for either the issue existing or exacerbating the issue, while the systemic roots and problems are either ignored or even presented as the start of the solution.

Acknowledging skewed black arrests =/= making it a black issue that can't find solutions in white supremacy. That's just LizardKing dismissing new information. Hold people accountable, man!

 

[DietRob]

Great PSA. Messages like this need to be more frequent and spread far and wide. Especially since Attorney General Keebler Elf keeps bringing up 1980's talking points about the stuff.

 

[shira]

I like this version much better than the original.

(For context, the original)

2nd take of the OG 80's one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FtNm9CgA6U

I like 90's one the best.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Man, that lighting not helping her at all.

Glad that she is correcting her past mistakes by doing this.

Damn she looks old.

What past mistakes? Starring in a movie with Freddie Prince?

 

[La Maquinon]

Big F U to all the commenters making cracks about her looking older. You suck.

 

[Curufinwe]

I was sure it was her playing Nebula in GotG till I saw in the credits it was Karen Gillan.

 

[NullPointer]

Acknowledging skewed black arrests =/= making it a black issue that can't find solutions in white supremacy. That's just LizardKing dismissing new information. Hold people accountable, man!

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

If you're white and have been ravaged by drugs or the War on Drugs, this commercial represents you as being privileged and happily getting away with it. How do you think those people feel watching this? That this speaks to them? Or blames them?

It may be a fine line to tread, but a message can make people defensive for no good reason, and I think that's LizardKing's point. If you're white and have a felony record because of the War on Drugs you aren't living pretty, and a message that could be crafted as unifying becomes a divisive us-against-them.

 

[Snowybreak]

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

If you're white and have been ravaged by drugs or the War on Drugs, this commercial represents you as being privileged and happily getting away with it. How do you think those people feel watching this? That this speaks to them? Or blames them?

If you were white and affected by the drug war, I'd think your opinion probably wouldn't sway in favor of it.

 

[The Kree]

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

If you're white and have been ravaged by drugs or the War on Drugs, this commercial represents you as being privileged and happily getting away with it. How do you think those people feel watching this? That this speaks to them? Or blames them?

It may be a fine line to tread, but a message can make people defensive for no good reason, and I think that's LizardKing's point. If you're white and have a felony record because of the War on Drugs you aren't living pretty, and a message that could be crafted as unifying becomes a divisive us-against-them.

There is no message that would be accurate and unifying. There are only messages that either pacify white people or piss off white people. That's our primary concern here - trying not to piss off white people. Forever pushing the narrative that unity and progress is only possible through the avoidance of white discomfort, always suggesting that to even begin the discussion on another groups terms is sewing divisiveness.

 

[LizardKing]

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

If you're white and have been ravaged by drugs or the War on Drugs, this commercial represents you as being privileged and happily getting away with it. How do you think those people feel watching this? That this speaks to them? Or blames them?

It may be a fine line to tread, but a message can make people defensive for no good reason, and I think that's LizardKing's point. If you're white and have a felony record because of the War on Drugs you aren't living pretty, and a message that could be crafted as unifying becomes a divisive us-against-them.

Exactly. This video literally says if you're black then our drug policy is a problem. If you're white it isn't. Yes, it's been used to oppress black people. But why are you trying to divide people on this issue when you should be uniting everyone you can to your side on drug policy? There is a larger overall issue of a majority not caring as much about minority issues, but shit, do you really want to conflate that largely inherent flaw within a majority rules political system with being able to take down a tool that allows law enforcement to discriminate? And I was being the ideologue? Take the W's where you can get them and continue to work on issues that may be harder after that. And you can get them when you can unite people.

There is no message that would be accurate and unifying. There are only messages that either pacify white people or piss off white people. That's our primary concern here - trying not to piss off white people. Forever pushing the narrative that unity and progress is only possible through the avoidance of white discomfort, always suggesting that to even begin the discussion on another groups terms is sewing divisiveness.

Your primary concern as far as drug policy is ending this tool that destroys lives. Don't forget that. Yes, it's generally a good idea to not piss off like 70% of the population if you want them to be on your side. But less about pissing them off, you need them to care.

If you were white and affected by the drug war, I'd think your opinion probably wouldn't sway in favor of it.

Well no kidding but at that same token you have to ask who is this for? Who do we have to convince to end the drug war? Is it black people who this video will resonate extremely with? Is it white liberals who already sympathize and agree? Probably not. So what good does the message do for the drug war? Who do you need to reach to convince and does this reach them?

 

[Sapiens]

Damn she looks old.

What past mistakes? Starring in a movie with Freddie Prince?

No, with Tara Reid.

 

[NullPointer]

There is no message that would be accurate and unifying. There are only messages that either pacify white people or piss off white people. That's our primary concern here - trying not to piss off white people. Forever pushing the narrative that unity and progress is only possible through the avoidance of white discomfort.

Not at all true.

Its important to showcase the racism of the War on Drugs, but that doesn't require you to present white people as happily immune to it, which this spot does, multiple times over. Its clumsy and divisive and incorrect.

 

[radios shipping overview]

That original commercial 👀

 

[Col WillieSharp]

Also, if you think the war on drugs isn't racist but the way it's implemented is, you should read this free book, which will give you all the bite-size facts on the history of marijuana prohibition. Most anything to do with drugs now has a major race element in its history.

http://jackherer.com.s216995.gridserver.com/emperor-3/

TIL what J Herer was named after. Thanks, Liu Kang Baking A Pie!

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Rachael Leigh Cook, claim to fame: The voice of Tifa.

😐

Thisisneogaf.gif

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Got to disagree here, because the spot goes beyond just speaking of the massively skewed incarceration rates. It actually presents white people as being immune.

If you're white and have been ravaged by drugs or the War on Drugs, this commercial represents you as being privileged and happily getting away with it. How do you think those people feel watching this? That this speaks to them? Or blames them?

It may be a fine line to tread, but a message can make people defensive for no good reason, and I think that's LizardKing's point. If you're white and have a felony record because of the War on Drugs you aren't living pretty, and a message that could be crafted as unifying becomes a divisive us-against-them.

I feel you. This illustrates LizardKing's points better than I was getting from their posts. (Waiting for RLC's third attempt at a drug ad now.)

But at this point I'd wonder what commercial could pierce through this defensiveness. Like The Kree says, this is ending up where it's always at and why we never move forward: placating white fragility and supremacy. What's the actual solution?

 

[PAULINK]

long story short, don't do drugs. not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Darryl M R]

long story short, don't do drugs. not a hard concept to grasp.

That's not at all what the video tried to get across. Don't be dense.

 

[PAULINK]

That's not at all what the video tried to get across. Don't be dense.

the video is advocating for changing the war on drugs.

The reality is, if you never do drugs, then you never get involved with the war in the first place.

 

[LizardKing]

I feel you. This illustrates LizardKing's points better than I was getting from their posts. (Waiting for RLC's third attempt at a drug ad now.)

But at this point I'd wonder what commercial could pierce through this defensiveness. Like The Kree says, this is ending up where it's always at and why we never move forward: placating white fragility and supremacy. What's the actual solution?

This is exactly what my point has been. I don't know why it would be so hard to focus on hardships from all races? Why did they have to divide it by race? Why couldn't they say this is what the drug war does. To you, your kids, your siblings. No matter your race. I don't have a problem with showing it's a problem for black people. Why can't they show it's a problem for everyone? Show upper middle class white dad's little Timmy's life ruined with a felony as well. To say this doesn't affect you is shit.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

By the way guys, the drug war polls poorly already.

From 2014:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2014/04/new-pew-poll-confirms-americans-ready-end-war-drugs

• More than six in ten Americans (63%) say that state governments moving away from mandatory prison terms for drug law violations is a good thing, while just 32% say these policy changes are a bad thing. This is a substantial shift from 2001 when the public was evenly divided (47% good thing vs. 45% bad thing). The majority of all demographic groups, including Republicans and Americans over 65 years old, support this shift.
• At the same time, there has been a major shift in attitudes on whether the use of marijuana should be legal. As recently as four years ago, about half (52%) said they thought the use of marijuana should not be legal; 41% said marijuana use should be legal. Today those numbers are roughly reversed – 54% favor marijuana legalization while 42% are opposed. Just 16% say it should not be legal for either medical or recreational use.
• Two-thirds (67%) say the government should focus more on providing treatment for people who use drugs like cocaine and heroin. Just 26% think the focus should be more on prosecuting people who use such drugs.

So we don't actually have to win over the apathetic, defensive public you guys are talking about. What's next?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This is exactly what my point has been. I don't know why it would be so hard to focus on hardships from all races? Why did they have to divide it by race? Why couldn't they say this is what the drug war does. To you, your kids, your siblings. No matter your race.

Because one group is extremely disproportionately arrested and jailed. We showed you the stats, man.

You not understanding why that disparity is so important and relevant is on you, not us. You can continue to dismiss bringing black issues to light as black issues as being divisive all you want, all that's really telling me is you personally don't care about them, not that you've found some sort of logical key to winning over a country. Show some work and solutions if winning over a country is your goal! (It is, right? It's not just a forum argument?)

Also, are you suggesting that people haven't been telling us the drug war sucks in general terms? Really?

 

[The Kree]

Not at all true.

Its important to showcase the racism of the War on Drugs, but that doesn't require you to present white people as happily immune to it, which this spot does, multiple times over. Its clumsy and divisive and incorrect.

The idea that white people don't understand how generalizations work when they're made about them is laughable to me. Sorry.